Is pride really worth losing your family?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Patrick Teahan on YouTube (a childhood trauma therapist) put it this way (paraphrasing): Think about how awful it has to be to sit alone in your house as a parent whose child is no longer speaking to you, and you're alone on a major holiday, sitting there thinking, "but I'm right." What a hollow victory that must be.

He's right. We live in the age of narcissistic parenting that's all the parent, all about the parent's pride and ego. A lot of them are beginning to sit alone at home, thinking they're right, but that thinking is what cost them their child.

I know that's not exactly how my mom would have approached it. She's not just "right" she was trying to be helpful with her unasked for advice, she meant well with her meddling, she only wanted what was best but I was ungrateful and disrespectful and she didn't deserve to be treated that way. Patrick must not actually know the people sitting home alone, he must only know half the story.

His message works with your examples, too.

A lot of them are alone, sitting there thinking “But I was only trying to be helpful/only meant well/only wanted what’s best”…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Patrick Teahan on YouTube (a childhood trauma therapist) put it this way (paraphrasing): Think about how awful it has to be to sit alone in your house as a parent whose child is no longer speaking to you, and you're alone on a major holiday, sitting there thinking, "but I'm right." What a hollow victory that must be.

He's right. We live in the age of narcissistic parenting that's all the parent, all about the parent's pride and ego. A lot of them are beginning to sit alone at home, thinking they're right, but that thinking is what cost them their child.

I know that's not exactly how my mom would have approached it. She's not just "right" she was trying to be helpful with her unasked for advice, she meant well with her meddling, she only wanted what was best but I was ungrateful and disrespectful and she didn't deserve to be treated that way. Patrick must not actually know the people sitting home alone, he must only know half the story.

His message works with your examples, too.

A lot of them are alone, sitting there thinking “But I was only trying to be helpful/only meant well/only wanted what’s best”…

Yes but if they feel mistreated then they are creating a boundary. Isn't that what we tell the offspring to do? My not accepting unwanted help or meddling or interference made her feel that way. "I won't let men MIL disrespect me that way!" And everyone is like "right on, sister!" But if a MIL/mother feels disrespected it's "look at her sitting all alone on a holiday feeling righteous. What a loser."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Patrick Teahan on YouTube (a childhood trauma therapist) put it this way (paraphrasing): Think about how awful it has to be to sit alone in your house as a parent whose child is no longer speaking to you, and you're alone on a major holiday, sitting there thinking, "but I'm right." What a hollow victory that must be.

He's right. We live in the age of narcissistic parenting that's all the parent, all about the parent's pride and ego. A lot of them are beginning to sit alone at home, thinking they're right, but that thinking is what cost them their child.

I know that's not exactly how my mom would have approached it. She's not just "right" she was trying to be helpful with her unasked for advice, she meant well with her meddling, she only wanted what was best but I was ungrateful and disrespectful and she didn't deserve to be treated that way. Patrick must not actually know the people sitting home alone, he must only know half the story.

His message works with your examples, too.

A lot of them are alone, sitting there thinking “But I was only trying to be helpful/only meant well/only wanted what’s best”…

^ and another to add you will never get the apology you want from someone who believes this came from a place of love the apology looks like "sorry you feel that way, I was only trying to help." What then? You will never convince that person they were wrong in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Patrick Teahan on YouTube (a childhood trauma therapist) put it this way (paraphrasing): Think about how awful it has to be to sit alone in your house as a parent whose child is no longer speaking to you, and you're alone on a major holiday, sitting there thinking, "but I'm right." What a hollow victory that must be.

He's right. We live in the age of narcissistic parenting that's all the parent, all about the parent's pride and ego. A lot of them are beginning to sit alone at home, thinking they're right, but that thinking is what cost them their child.

I know that's not exactly how my mom would have approached it. She's not just "right" she was trying to be helpful with her unasked for advice, she meant well with her meddling, she only wanted what was best but I was ungrateful and disrespectful and she didn't deserve to be treated that way. Patrick must not actually know the people sitting home alone, he must only know half the story.

His message works with your examples, too.

A lot of them are alone, sitting there thinking “But I was only trying to be helpful/only meant well/only wanted what’s best”…

^ and another to add you will never get the apology you want from someone who believes this came from a place of love the apology looks like "sorry you feel that way, I was only trying to help." What then? You will never convince that person they were wrong in the first place.

You just don’t get it, and that’s ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Patrick Teahan on YouTube (a childhood trauma therapist) put it this way (paraphrasing): Think about how awful it has to be to sit alone in your house as a parent whose child is no longer speaking to you, and you're alone on a major holiday, sitting there thinking, "but I'm right." What a hollow victory that must be.

He's right. We live in the age of narcissistic parenting that's all the parent, all about the parent's pride and ego. A lot of them are beginning to sit alone at home, thinking they're right, but that thinking is what cost them their child.

I know that's not exactly how my mom would have approached it. She's not just "right" she was trying to be helpful with her unasked for advice, she meant well with her meddling, she only wanted what was best but I was ungrateful and disrespectful and she didn't deserve to be treated that way. Patrick must not actually know the people sitting home alone, he must only know half the story.

His message works with your examples, too.

A lot of them are alone, sitting there thinking “But I was only trying to be helpful/only meant well/only wanted what’s best”…

^ and another to add you will never get the apology you want from someone who believes this came from a place of love the apology looks like "sorry you feel that way, I was only trying to help." What then? You will never convince that person they were wrong in the first place.

You just don’t get it, and that’s ok.

I think you have no idea. You don't understand what's going on in the minds of some of these women but you think you do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Patrick Teahan on YouTube (a childhood trauma therapist) put it this way (paraphrasing): Think about how awful it has to be to sit alone in your house as a parent whose child is no longer speaking to you, and you're alone on a major holiday, sitting there thinking, "but I'm right." What a hollow victory that must be.

He's right. We live in the age of narcissistic parenting that's all the parent, all about the parent's pride and ego. A lot of them are beginning to sit alone at home, thinking they're right, but that thinking is what cost them their child.

I know that's not exactly how my mom would have approached it. She's not just "right" she was trying to be helpful with her unasked for advice, she meant well with her meddling, she only wanted what was best but I was ungrateful and disrespectful and she didn't deserve to be treated that way. Patrick must not actually know the people sitting home alone, he must only know half the story.

His message works with your examples, too.

A lot of them are alone, sitting there thinking “But I was only trying to be helpful/only meant well/only wanted what’s best”…

^ and another to add you will never get the apology you want from someone who believes this came from a place of love the apology looks like "sorry you feel that way, I was only trying to help." What then? You will never convince that person they were wrong in the first place.

You just don’t get it, and that’s ok.

I think you have no idea. You don't understand what's going on in the minds of some of these women but you think you do.

If they both think they’re right, but only one has cut off (the child) and the other (the parent) wants or misses access, then they either need to eat crow and apologize and change the behavior, or not. What part of this don’t you understand?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Patrick Teahan on YouTube (a childhood trauma therapist) put it this way (paraphrasing): Think about how awful it has to be to sit alone in your house as a parent whose child is no longer speaking to you, and you're alone on a major holiday, sitting there thinking, "but I'm right." What a hollow victory that must be.

He's right. We live in the age of narcissistic parenting that's all the parent, all about the parent's pride and ego. A lot of them are beginning to sit alone at home, thinking they're right, but that thinking is what cost them their child.

I know that's not exactly how my mom would have approached it. She's not just "right" she was trying to be helpful with her unasked for advice, she meant well with her meddling, she only wanted what was best but I was ungrateful and disrespectful and she didn't deserve to be treated that way. Patrick must not actually know the people sitting home alone, he must only know half the story.

His message works with your examples, too.

A lot of them are alone, sitting there thinking “But I was only trying to be helpful/only meant well/only wanted what’s best”…

^ and another to add you will never get the apology you want from someone who believes this came from a place of love the apology looks like "sorry you feel that way, I was only trying to help." What then? You will never convince that person they were wrong in the first place.

You just don’t get it, and that’s ok.

I think you have no idea. You don't understand what's going on in the minds of some of these women but you think you do.

If they both think they’re right, but only one has cut off (the child) and the other (the parent) wants or misses access, then they either need to eat crow and apologize and change the behavior, or not. What part of this don’t you understand?

I think if you read the replies in here you will see it's not that black and white. It ebbs and flows and there will be periods of low to no contact and everyone tries again. There was no grand apology in a lot of cases. No eating of crow. Get it yet?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I find it really really weird when family cuts off other family. Invariably when I hear details, there are issues on both sides even if one person is more at fault. I hear a lot of stories of defensive language like ‘they were toxic’ ‘I need boundaries’ etc but the reality is that if the person wasn’t also contributing in some way, they wouldn’t need to be so strident and rigid. I have a family member who is likely mentally ill and has caused tons of drama, but are they cut off? No. I feel sorry for them, realize they are a highly imperfect person and I look for ways to connect that are not high conflict. If I engage with them and fight, what does that say about me? I know I can’t expect them to operate on the same emotional level as I do. And that’s ok.

They/we are connected to each other in various ways and ‘cutting them off’ would impact not only me but others. And to me, that’s selfish and unfair.

Cool story. Are you so morally superior that you can comprehend that situations outside your limited worldview exist? Are you willing to acknowledge that other people have made choices to stop allowing family members to abuse them and that that's ok and it doesn't make those people responsible for the situation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it really really weird when family cuts off other family. Invariably when I hear details, there are issues on both sides even if one person is more at fault. I hear a lot of stories of defensive language like ‘they were toxic’ ‘I need boundaries’ etc but the reality is that if the person wasn’t also contributing in some way, they wouldn’t need to be so strident and rigid. I have a family member who is likely mentally ill and has caused tons of drama, but are they cut off? No. I feel sorry for them, realize they are a highly imperfect person and I look for ways to connect that are not high conflict. If I engage with them and fight, what does that say about me? I know I can’t expect them to operate on the same emotional level as I do. And that’s ok.

They/we are connected to each other in various ways and ‘cutting them off’ would impact not only me but others. And to me, that’s selfish and unfair.

A parent telling my child they wish they never had me was the final straw

Is that good enough for you ?

One told my preteen, “I never loved your mom.” So yeah, PP will never get it. Or, she’s a narc herself.

I am not a narc but yes, your mother *said* something hurtful. I suspect she’s mentally ill/a narc and it might be compounded by aging issues. Are you so fragile that you can’t see that and rise above her and feel sorry for her? IME the people who cut off family members often do not fix their lives by doing so, they only take the extreme hypersensitivity and aggression to other relationships - you’re doing it right here in these posts with a stranger… not everyone, but many.

Whatever! She doesn’t love me, she doesn’t have to see me; no skin, right? But that also means you don’t get to influence my minor children, either. You can do or think whatever you want, it doesn’t affect me and mine.

As I suspected, the ‘protection of children’ is more about you. That’s fine, do what you want, but just eyes wide open that you are carrying forward generational trauma and rifts that may likely be carried onto generations of your family. So generations of family members - aunts, uncles, cousins, etc- may not get to know each other because of this. And if your mom died tomorrow and left $1 million dollars to a sibling instead of some to your children, you’d be okay with that? Would they? Would they as adults?

IME people like this may do hurtful or unequal things in their will as their last "gotcha." This is a terrible reason to keep someone in your life.

Maybe yes, maybe no. But you’re making decisions for your children’s relationships, their cousins, aunts, uncles etc. To me, the best lesson to children is that human relationships are challenging but usually worthwhile and it’s important to learn how to navigate them, good and bad, especially with family bc family is family. I’d prefer to model that to my children. Not ‘uncle Bob did this and that and so I’m never speaking to him again!’ which usually means they won’t either, and then suddenly you have a growing circle of rifts that’s passed down. How tragic. Those bonds they will miss out on can never be repaired.

You can disengage from the negatives if they’re not fixable, and take only the good parts bc invariably there are some. I cannot imagine cutting off ALL contact for my kids with their grandparents bc my elderly mother said something hurtful about me. I think people like this assume intact families are all perfect, or alternatively that we are all just secretly hiding major abuse, but the reality is typically somewhere in the middle.

Well, some of us like to teach our children that people can't abuse you just because they're related to you. But you do you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it really really weird when family cuts off other family. Invariably when I hear details, there are issues on both sides even if one person is more at fault. I hear a lot of stories of defensive language like ‘they were toxic’ ‘I need boundaries’ etc but the reality is that if the person wasn’t also contributing in some way, they wouldn’t need to be so strident and rigid. I have a family member who is likely mentally ill and has caused tons of drama, but are they cut off? No. I feel sorry for them, realize they are a highly imperfect person and I look for ways to connect that are not high conflict. If I engage with them and fight, what does that say about me? I know I can’t expect them to operate on the same emotional level as I do. And that’s ok.

They/we are connected to each other in various ways and ‘cutting them off’ would impact not only me but others. And to me, that’s selfish and unfair.

A parent telling my child they wish they never had me was the final straw

Is that good enough for you ?

One told my preteen, “I never loved your mom.” So yeah, PP will never get it. Or, she’s a narc herself.

I am not a narc but yes, your mother *said* something hurtful. I suspect she’s mentally ill/a narc and it might be compounded by aging issues. Are you so fragile that you can’t see that and rise above her and feel sorry for her? IME the people who cut off family members often do not fix their lives by doing so, they only take the extreme hypersensitivity and aggression to other relationships - you’re doing it right here in these posts with a stranger… not everyone, but many.

Whatever! She doesn’t love me, she doesn’t have to see me; no skin, right? But that also means you don’t get to influence my minor children, either. You can do or think whatever you want, it doesn’t affect me and mine.

As I suspected, the ‘protection of children’ is more about you. That’s fine, do what you want, but just eyes wide open that you are carrying forward generational trauma and rifts that may likely be carried onto generations of your family. So generations of family members - aunts, uncles, cousins, etc- may not get to know each other because of this. And if your mom died tomorrow and left $1 million dollars to a sibling instead of some to your children, you’d be okay with that? Would they? Would they as adults?

IME people like this may do hurtful or unequal things in their will as their last "gotcha." This is a terrible reason to keep someone in your life.

Maybe yes, maybe no. But you’re making decisions for your children’s relationships, their cousins, aunts, uncles etc. To me, the best lesson to children is that human relationships are challenging but usually worthwhile and it’s important to learn how to navigate them, good and bad, especially with family bc family is family. I’d prefer to model that to my children. Not ‘uncle Bob did this and that and so I’m never speaking to him again!’ which usually means they won’t either, and then suddenly you have a growing circle of rifts that’s passed down. How tragic. Those bonds they will miss out on can never be repaired.

You can disengage from the negatives if they’re not fixable, and take only the good parts bc invariably there are some. I cannot imagine cutting off ALL contact for my kids with their grandparents bc my elderly mother said something hurtful about me. I think people like this assume intact families are all perfect, or alternatively that we are all just secretly hiding major abuse, but the reality is typically somewhere in the middle.

That's just your experience and it's good to point out. But I have a parent who is estranged from the whole family except me. I don't want talk to them either, but I agree cutting people out isn't a great signal to kids. But my kids mostly miss out on relationships with other family bc we have to try and keep up with everyone separately, and that's hard. Some people have difficult relatives, but some of us have truly truly terrible relatives. It's not as easy as trying to keep the peace. And everyone has their own set of circumstances. Cutting people off is usually never about one remark, but there's always a last straw.[/quote]

Obviously. But why not just yellow/gray rock them at group get togethers?

Because we don't want to teach our kids that they have to tolerate abuse. Period. I don't understand why this is so hard for you to understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my opinion, nothing is worth losing your family over, but I have a good enough relationship with all of my family members that it's easy to take that position. If a family member caused me suffering, I would likely take a different position.

Physical, sexual, and emotional abuse are ok with you? Alcoholism, drug addiction, financial abuse? Those are cool for you and your children?

Not cool obviously but all of those except sexual abuse seem like they could be forgiven or at least put aside for the sake of larger family dynamics as well as my own sanity. Lots of parents hit their kids before 20 or 30 years ago. It was not considered abuse. Do I agree with that? No. But I also recognize people are a product of their times. Same with the rest, other than sexual abuse. How old are you?

Yes, it was, by people who knew better.

For your sake, I'd refrain from ever using that argument again, in any context. It never works and it makes you look like an idiot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it really really weird when family cuts off other family. Invariably when I hear details, there are issues on both sides even if one person is more at fault. I hear a lot of stories of defensive language like ‘they were toxic’ ‘I need boundaries’ etc but the reality is that if the person wasn’t also contributing in some way, they wouldn’t need to be so strident and rigid. I have a family member who is likely mentally ill and has caused tons of drama, but are they cut off? No. I feel sorry for them, realize they are a highly imperfect person and I look for ways to connect that are not high conflict. If I engage with them and fight, what does that say about me? I know I can’t expect them to operate on the same emotional level as I do. And that’s ok.

They/we are connected to each other in various ways and ‘cutting them off’ would impact not only me but others. And to me, that’s selfish and unfair.

A parent telling my child they wish they never had me was the final straw

Is that good enough for you ?

One told my preteen, “I never loved your mom.” So yeah, PP will never get it. Or, she’s a narc herself.

I am not a narc but yes, your mother *said* something hurtful. I suspect she’s mentally ill/a narc and it might be compounded by aging issues. Are you so fragile that you can’t see that and rise above her and feel sorry for her? IME the people who cut off family members often do not fix their lives by doing so, they only take the extreme hypersensitivity and aggression to other relationships - you’re doing it right here in these posts with a stranger… not everyone, but many.

Whatever! She doesn’t love me, she doesn’t have to see me; no skin, right? But that also means you don’t get to influence my minor children, either. You can do or think whatever you want, it doesn’t affect me and mine.

As I suspected, the ‘protection of children’ is more about you. That’s fine, do what you want, but just eyes wide open that you are carrying forward generational trauma and rifts that may likely be carried onto generations of your family. So generations of family members - aunts, uncles, cousins, etc- may not get to know each other because of this. And if your mom died tomorrow and left $1 million dollars to a sibling instead of some to your children, you’d be okay with that? Would they? Would they as adults?

IME people like this may do hurtful or unequal things in their will as their last "gotcha." This is a terrible reason to keep someone in your life.

Maybe yes, maybe no. But you’re making decisions for your children’s relationships, their cousins, aunts, uncles etc. To me, the best lesson to children is that human relationships are challenging but usually worthwhile and it’s important to learn how to navigate them, good and bad, especially with family bc family is family. I’d prefer to model that to my children. Not ‘uncle Bob did this and that and so I’m never speaking to him again!’ which usually means they won’t either, and then suddenly you have a growing circle of rifts that’s passed down. How tragic. Those bonds they will miss out on can never be repaired.

You can disengage from the negatives if they’re not fixable, and take only the good parts bc invariably there are some. I cannot imagine cutting off ALL contact for my kids with their grandparents bc my elderly mother said something hurtful about me. I think people like this assume intact families are all perfect, or alternatively that we are all just secretly hiding major abuse, but the reality is typically somewhere in the middle.

Yes, part of being a parent is making decisions about your children and their relationships with family. Those are things you can control. You can't control if your child has ADHD but you can certainly control if they spend time with abusive family. I prefer to model healthy boundaries and behaviors for my children.

It's so easy to spot the abusers on these threads.

+1000

They're the ones who are going to end up like OP's MIL

[Anonymous]

Let her go

[Anonymous]

My mother was a narcissist. She lost me.
I think the "is it worth it" question is one that a NON narcissist would ask.
A narcissist wouldn't...they cannot NOT be a narcissist.

[Anonymous]

I would want to know the other side of the story. My SIL would also call my mom "a narcissist", only because she refused to babysit her kids. They were not her grandkids, she've only seen them twice before the incident, and wasn't comfortable babyssiting kids she barely knew. As a result, our brother got all snippy, that mom ruined his and her plans. I am glad mom stood her ground. So there's barely any relationship now, but to be honest, those two are so toxic, we can live without them in our lives.