Is pride really worth losing your family?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My mom is always trashing my husband (to me, not to him.)
I change the subject. Every time. If she pushes it, I’ll say “I’m going now” with no explanation and hang up or leave. It’s like training a dog.
I’m not going to cut her off over this. She’s a silly,spoiled old lady who happens to be a great grandma to my kids. I’m not going to sit and listen to it but I can’t end the relationship. I used to argue with her but it always ended in tears.
Of course she will never apologize or admit she was wrong. That generation believes that once you are old you can do whatever you want without consequence. Whatever.

They (especially the women) felt obligated or “required” to kiss the asses of their parents and ILs when they got old in the name of “respect your elders.” Now they think it’s THEIR turn, and when the world no longer works that way, they stomp their orthopedic loafer, scowl and whine like a toddler: “no FAIR!”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would want to know the other side of the story. My SIL would also call my mom "a narcissist", only because she refused to babysit her kids. They were not her grandkids, she've only seen them twice before the incident, and wasn't comfortable babyssiting kids she barely knew. As a result, our brother got all snippy, that mom ruined his and her plans. I am glad mom stood her ground. So there's barely any relationship now, but to be honest, those two are so toxic, we can live without them in our lives.

Exactly. It’s usually not so black and white.

Literally OP demanded her DH cut off his mom for disrespecting her, so he is also losing family over “pride”.

I’m not judging who is “right” or what “should” be done in this situation but it’s weird that OP can’t have the slightest bit of understanding about the motivations here.

Nowhere did the OP say or even imply she was behind the estrangement. You’re projecting.

She specifically said the issue arose because of her. If my MIL said something negative to me, I’d be irritated but I would never ever ever want my DH (or my kids) to cut off a relationship with her. And I would suck it up and move on. Life is too short to get hung up on every last mistake by others.

I’m the one who posted above. I’m older so I’ve seen how these things play out long term. It is not just about you and the other person - you are causing a rippling effect of family dysfunction across other families and even down generations. Cut it out and grow the F up, OP

Yeah. We can tell. 😂

[Anonymous]

I’ve never understood why some people demand apologies from people. She’s not sorry. That’s why she’s not apologizing. It’s that simple. Maybe she doesn’t like you.

But I think you were wrong to cut off access to the grandkids. Did she do anything to them? It’s too late for that now but I feel it’s always wrong to put kids in the middle.

I do not speak to my SIL for something that happened between us. I would NEVER try to prevent my kids from having a relationship with their aunt. I don’t speak bad of her to them. They are teens now and can text her and visit her without me.

[Anonymous]

7:57 and she lives across the country fyi. So the kids can visit her without me and it’s not even obvious we aren’t speaking. Like when they take a weekend trip from college or something

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve never understood why some people demand apologies from people. She’s not sorry. That’s why she’s not apologizing. It’s that simple. Maybe she doesn’t like you.

But I think you were wrong to cut off access to the grandkids. Did she do anything to them? It’s too late for that now but I feel it’s always wrong to put kids in the middle.

I do not speak to my SIL for something that happened between us. I would NEVER try to prevent my kids from having a relationship with their aunt. I don’t speak bad of her to them. They are teens now and can text her and visit her without me.

Grandparent relationships don’t exist in a vacuum. They grow out of, and depend on, a healthy, respectful relationship with the parents. When that foundation isn’t there, you can’t just step around it and expect everything else to function normally.

This isn’t about punishment or keeping anyone “in the middle.” It’s about boundaries and stability. Children shouldn’t be asked to maintain close relationships in situations where the adults involved don’t have mutual trust and respect. The health of the parent relationship sets the tone for everything else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trying to understand a situation in our family and would appreciate perspective, especially from those who’ve seen similar dynamics.

DH has always had a complicated relationship with his mom. There’s a long pattern of DARVO behavior from her. Historically he’s tolerated it. Recently, she crossed a line by disrespecting me in a way that was clearly intended to manipulate him. He told her they were done unless she could take accountability, apologize, and make it right.

It’s been a year today. No holidays, no visits. DH has siblings but our kids are her only grandkids. From the outside, it feels like she’s choosing being “right” (or being the victim) over having a relationship with her son and grandchildren. I genuinely don’t understand that mindset. If you care about your family, wouldn’t you at least attempt repair?

For those who’ve experienced something similar: what drives this? Pride? Control? Something else? I’m trying to make sense of it.

If someone has gone no contact with you for a year, they just don’t want a relationship with you. They don’t enjoy your company. They enjoy their life more without you than with you. They remember the recent time spent with you as an obligation, frustrating, uncomfortable or anger provoking. It doesn’t matter at all who was right or wrong they simply don’t want to be with you. They aren’t sentimental or nostalgic enough to keep pretending.

You mean DH, correct? Sure! But what about his mom? She’s had 12 months to eat crow, and at the very minimum, feign an apology. She hasn’t. Why?

She’s not sorry! She doesn’t see spending time with your family as worth it. Many grandparents really do not care about their grandchildren. Once the novelty wears off if the grandchildren don’t do anything for the grandparent then what is the point? Old people get extremely selfish. In their minds, relationships are often no longer two way streets, it’s what have you done for me lately.

This person is absolutely correct OP. My kids are almost adults—and yes, some grandparents really don’t care. Even crazier, my in laws are so self involved, that I don’t even think they realize that they don’t care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trying to understand a situation in our family and would appreciate perspective, especially from those who’ve seen similar dynamics.

DH has always had a complicated relationship with his mom. There’s a long pattern of DARVO behavior from her. Historically he’s tolerated it. Recently, she crossed a line by disrespecting me in a way that was clearly intended to manipulate him. He told her they were done unless she could take accountability, apologize, and make it right.

It’s been a year today. No holidays, no visits. DH has siblings but our kids are her only grandkids. From the outside, it feels like she’s choosing being “right” (or being the victim) over having a relationship with her son and grandchildren. I genuinely don’t understand that mindset. If you care about your family, wouldn’t you at least attempt repair?

For those who’ve experienced something similar: what drives this? Pride? Control? Something else? I’m trying to make sense of it.

If someone has gone no contact with you for a year, they just don’t want a relationship with you. They don’t enjoy your company. They enjoy their life more without you than with you. They remember the recent time spent with you as an obligation, frustrating, uncomfortable or anger provoking. It doesn’t matter at all who was right or wrong they simply don’t want to be with you. They aren’t sentimental or nostalgic enough to keep pretending.

You mean DH, correct? Sure! But what about his mom? She’s had 12 months to eat crow, and at the very minimum, feign an apology. She hasn’t. Why?

She’s not sorry! She doesn’t see spending time with your family as worth it. Many grandparents really do not care about their grandchildren. Once the novelty wears off if the grandchildren don’t do anything for the grandparent then what is the point? Old people get extremely selfish. In their minds, relationships are often no longer two way streets, it’s what have you done for me lately.

This. This describes my inlaws. Mil begged me to get pregnant before we were even engaged and once we had children, she could not have cared less. She wanted to use them as props. I have twins. At their christening, they were adorable. She never even touched one of them. She was cold as ice over some imagined slight and refused to acknowledge them.

[Anonymous]

I'm the poster above and believe mil is a true narcissist. One of my sils had a mental breakdown and got therapy and told me about her mother. They all act very lovey dovey, but they aren't in any way. Mil expected to control every aspect of her children's lives and didn't want any of them to leave her and get married. Dh's siblings still function as barely adults even though they are retirement age. The daughters never married and the other male sibling divorced fairly quickly at the urging of the family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trying to understand a situation in our family and would appreciate perspective, especially from those who’ve seen similar dynamics.

DH has always had a complicated relationship with his mom. There’s a long pattern of DARVO behavior from her. Historically he’s tolerated it. Recently, she crossed a line by disrespecting me in a way that was clearly intended to manipulate him. He told her they were done unless she could take accountability, apologize, and make it right.

It’s been a year today. No holidays, no visits. DH has siblings but our kids are her only grandkids. From the outside, it feels like she’s choosing being “right” (or being the victim) over having a relationship with her son and grandchildren. I genuinely don’t understand that mindset. If you care about your family, wouldn’t you at least attempt repair?

For those who’ve experienced something similar: what drives this? Pride? Control? Something else? I’m trying to make sense of it.

If someone has gone no contact with you for a year, they just don’t want a relationship with you. They don’t enjoy your company. They enjoy their life more without you than with you. They remember the recent time spent with you as an obligation, frustrating, uncomfortable or anger provoking. It doesn’t matter at all who was right or wrong they simply don’t want to be with you. They aren’t sentimental or nostalgic enough to keep pretending.

I don't think this is always true. My mil enjoyed being around family but she would make herself miserable if she didn't have complete control over her children's decisions. She loses her mind and can not function if she doesn't pick who you marry, where you marry etc. Also she told me many a time she hated having children. She didn't want anything to do with them unless they were perfect angels. When it comes down to it, she really doesn't like children but was never allowed to consider not having a brood. They look like such a cute family on the outside but if you knew about the abuse...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trying to understand a situation in our family and would appreciate perspective, especially from those who’ve seen similar dynamics.

DH has always had a complicated relationship with his mom. There’s a long pattern of DARVO behavior from her. Historically he’s tolerated it. Recently, she crossed a line by disrespecting me in a way that was clearly intended to manipulate him. He told her they were done unless she could take accountability, apologize, and make it right.

It’s been a year today. No holidays, no visits. DH has siblings but our kids are her only grandkids. From the outside, it feels like she’s choosing being “right” (or being the victim) over having a relationship with her son and grandchildren. I genuinely don’t understand that mindset. If you care about your family, wouldn’t you at least attempt repair?

For those who’ve experienced something similar: what drives this? Pride? Control? Something else? I’m trying to make sense of it.

If someone has gone no contact with you for a year, they just don’t want a relationship with you. They don’t enjoy your company. They enjoy their life more without you than with you. They remember the recent time spent with you as an obligation, frustrating, uncomfortable or anger provoking. It doesn’t matter at all who was right or wrong they simply don’t want to be with you. They aren’t sentimental or nostalgic enough to keep pretending.

You mean DH, correct? Sure! But what about his mom? She’s had 12 months to eat crow, and at the very minimum, feign an apology. She hasn’t. Why?

You don't seem to see that you are what has caused the problem. MIL not liking you and DH defending you. She would rather not be with grandkids and her son than have to be with you. We have someone like this in our family. There is nothing wrong with her, she just doesn't fit with us--and we like our dynamic. We've gotten to the point where none of us try anymore.

You and your siblings operate as a cult. It is very immature and dysfunctional. I'd hate to have you all as in laws.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it really really weird when family cuts off other family. Invariably when I hear details, there are issues on both sides even if one person is more at fault. I hear a lot of stories of defensive language like ‘they were toxic’ ‘I need boundaries’ etc but the reality is that if the person wasn’t also contributing in some way, they wouldn’t need to be so strident and rigid. I have a family member who is likely mentally ill and has caused tons of drama, but are they cut off? No. I feel sorry for them, realize they are a highly imperfect person and I look for ways to connect that are not high conflict. If I engage with them and fight, what does that say about me? I know I can’t expect them to operate on the same emotional level as I do. And that’s ok.

They/we are connected to each other in various ways and ‘cutting them off’ would impact not only me but others. And to me, that’s selfish and unfair.

People reach their limit, PP. They feel they have tried everything and have nothing left to try. And it’s never selfish to protect children. Other adults are on their own, and I don’t see how your decision affects them personally. You can visit them separately, or not.

I suspect your protection of children is more about you. My children also know this family member and although I’m not sending them for sleepovers, I’m also not cutting them off and not allowing them from making up their own mind.

And it’s telling you don’t see how family ruptures affect others. It ripples through the entire family. People are forced to choose because of your inability to be the bigger person.

we pegged you. Women need to be doormats. Sorry, the rest of us know better. It doesn't have to "ripple through the entire family." Other family members can stay in contact with pp.The people who are adults can continue acting like adults.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it really really weird when family cuts off other family. Invariably when I hear details, there are issues on both sides even if one person is more at fault. I hear a lot of stories of defensive language like ‘they were toxic’ ‘I need boundaries’ etc but the reality is that if the person wasn’t also contributing in some way, they wouldn’t need to be so strident and rigid. I have a family member who is likely mentally ill and has caused tons of drama, but are they cut off? No. I feel sorry for them, realize they are a highly imperfect person and I look for ways to connect that are not high conflict. If I engage with them and fight, what does that say about me? I know I can’t expect them to operate on the same emotional level as I do. And that’s ok.

They/we are connected to each other in various ways and ‘cutting them off’ would impact not only me but others. And to me, that’s selfish and unfair.

A parent telling my child they wish they never had me was the final straw

Is that good enough for you ?

One told my preteen, “I never loved your mom.” So yeah, PP will never get it. Or, she’s a narc herself.

I am not a narc but yes, your mother *said* something hurtful. I suspect she’s mentally ill/a narc and it might be compounded by aging issues. Are you so fragile that you can’t see that and rise above her and feel sorry for her? IME the people who cut off family members often do not fix their lives by doing so, they only take the extreme hypersensitivity and aggression to other relationships - you’re doing it right here in these posts with a stranger… not everyone, but many.

Whatever! She doesn’t love me, she doesn’t have to see me; no skin, right? But that also means you don’t get to influence my minor children, either. You can do or think whatever you want, it doesn’t affect me and mine.

As I suspected, the ‘protection of children’ is more about you. That’s fine, do what you want, but just eyes wide open that you are carrying forward generational trauma and rifts that may likely be carried onto generations of your family. So generations of family members - aunts, uncles, cousins, etc- may not get to know each other because of this. And if your mom died tomorrow and left $1 million dollars to a sibling instead of some to your children, you’d be okay with that? Would they? Would they as adults?

You are a drama queen. My mil constantly made the remark that dh was throwing away millions by not bending to her will. There wasn't one thing she did, there were so many and they were so extreme you wouldn't believe me. We don't want a single thing from them and that has caused more drama. My mil is constantly at war/upset and punishing someone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is how some parents are. She doesn’t think parents apologize. In her mind, she’s thinking just what you are - why is my son so stubborn that he can’t just get over this? Gosh, he’s so sensitive and he and his wife make a big deal about everything. I can’t believe he’s willing to lose his mother over this.

Not agreeing with her! But this is what she’s thinking. My mother is similar and this is exactly what she thinks.

OP’s MIL FAFO’d! It’s funny, but I’ll be here long after DH’s 70+ mother will. It makes me think of Taylor Swift’s Father Figure: “You made a deal with this devil, turns out my d***’s bigger!”

This is such a weird response to me. Estrangement is sad. It’s sad that some people treat other family abusively and are unwilling/unable to stop. It’s sad that some people jump to estrangement over things that are manageable. Sometimes it’s necessary but you can’t really claim the high ground when you’re making gross statements like this.

You consistently trivialize the reasons for estrangement. I don't know a single person who is estranged over something trivial. You are intentionally deceptive. Get therapy for yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my opinion, nothing is worth losing your family over, but I have a good enough relationship with all of my family members that it's easy to take that position. If a family member caused me suffering, I would likely take a different position.

Physical, sexual, and emotional abuse are ok with you? Alcoholism, drug addiction, financial abuse? Those are cool for you and your children?

Of course. What's the problem? It's all "manageable". /s

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trying to understand a situation in our family and would appreciate perspective, especially from those who’ve seen similar dynamics.

DH has always had a complicated relationship with his mom. There’s a long pattern of DARVO behavior from her. Historically he’s tolerated it. Recently, she crossed a line by disrespecting me in a way that was clearly intended to manipulate him. He told her they were done unless she could take accountability, apologize, and make it right.

It’s been a year today. No holidays, no visits. DH has siblings but our kids are her only grandkids. From the outside, it feels like she’s choosing being “right” (or being the victim) over having a relationship with her son and grandchildren. I genuinely don’t understand that mindset. If you care about your family, wouldn’t you at least attempt repair?

For those who’ve experienced something similar: what drives this? Pride? Control? Something else? I’m trying to make sense of it.

If someone has gone no contact with you for a year, they just don’t want a relationship with you. They don’t enjoy your company. They enjoy their life more without you than with you. They remember the recent time spent with you as an obligation, frustrating, uncomfortable or anger provoking. It doesn’t matter at all who was right or wrong they simply don’t want to be with you. They aren’t sentimental or nostalgic enough to keep pretending.

You mean DH, correct? Sure! But what about his mom? She’s had 12 months to eat crow, and at the very minimum, feign an apology. She hasn’t. Why?

She’s not sorry! She doesn’t see spending time with your family as worth it. Many grandparents really do not care about their grandchildren. Once the novelty wears off if the grandchildren don’t do anything for the grandparent then what is the point? Old people get extremely selfish. In their minds, relationships are often no longer two way streets, it’s what have you done for me lately.

This. This describes my inlaws. Mil begged me to get pregnant before we were even engaged and once we had children, she could not have cared less. She wanted to use them as props. I have twins. At their christening, they were adorable. She never even touched one of them. She was cold as ice over some imagined slight and refused to acknowledge them.

What ?