Massive cheating on SAT?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t get it—if their universities are better than ours, why are their students so desperate to get into U.S. colleges, even to the point of cheating? That just doesn’t add up.

And ironically 2024-2025 we see surge in international students in US colleges even with Trump administration.

1. Very difficult to get into top universities in China.

2. Cachet/prestige from studying abroad is a significant advantage in gaining employment in China.

3. Many want opportunity to emigrate to US and college is an initial step in that process.

Okay, but if their economy is supposedly doing better than the U.S., at least according to the media, I don’t get why they’d want to come here at all—given the current economic mess and high unemployment and underemployment for American NGs. Same with Indian students. Why?

Because, it is easy to excel in USA. The rest of the US population does not offer much of a challenge. Even mediocre students in China can become the top students here because the White students cannot compete with them.

This is so so true. As an engineering faculty at t100 school, I see how much American kids struggle with basic math they should have known since middle/high schools. For example, how complicated can y=mx+b be? When students in my sophomore-level class see a line segment connecting two points on a plane that happens to not intersect the y-axis, so many of them have trouble figuring out the m and b. It's beyond disappointing. International students (not too many these days) often seem dumbfounded when I have to work out simple calculations on the whiteboard so that everyone could follow.

This is very sad. I run a volunteering event for a nearby middle schools. Students who participate earn SSL (Student Service Learning) hours. I have to write sentences on the whiteboard for students to copy and fill the SSL forms. They cannot spell or write. They are writing at the level of first graders. I wonder what will happen to them and what will happen to this society?

[Anonymous]

I listened to the podcast linked that was on LSAT cheating with a whistleblower. It’s sad it’s happening but hearing from the source was interesting how it goes on.

https://www.spiveyconsulting.com/podcasts/lsat-cheating-whistleblower-podcast

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son is a freshman at a University of California college. The first day he met his dorm roommate who is from mainland China and invited him to go down to the dining commons to eat dinner together. My son called later saying he understood very little of what his roommate said and his roommate didn't seem to understand much of what my son was saying.

I told my son to give him the benefit of the doubt as the Chinese student was in a new environment and maybe jet lagged. As the academic year has progressed the Chinese student rarely leaves the room except to go to the bathroom and eat. It appears that he is too busy gaming until 2 or 3 am.

My son doesn't understand how he has never seen him take his laptop and backpack and head off to class, never seems to study, never has any books, never seems to be writing any papers, etc. My son would ask him but when he tries to talk to him he doesn't really get a reply back. Based on his possessions my son assumes he is quite wealthy but knows nothing else about him.

He probably has a “study group”
That helps with his assignments so he does not bother to go to class (his English is probably not high level enough to understand it). My kid is a PhD student TA at a STEM school. There are kids in the lab my kid teaches that all turn in the same answers (even if they do not attend the lab). They “study” together. My kid also has a colleague that got a master’s at a Chinese university that knows incredibly little about their field and uses AI for everything. The colleague used AI to create data for their advisor’s paper. My kid ended up having to redo the colleague’s work a virtually none of it was correct. I suspect cheating and relying on AI is acceptable and par for the course in Chinese academics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t get it—if their universities are better than ours, why are their students so desperate to get into U.S. colleges, even to the point of cheating? That just doesn’t add up.

And ironically 2024-2025 we see surge in international students in US colleges even with Trump administration.

1. Very difficult to get into top universities in China.

2. Cachet/prestige from studying abroad is a significant advantage in gaining employment in China.

3. Many want opportunity to emigrate to US and college is an initial step in that process.

Okay, but if their economy is supposedly doing better than the U.S., at least according to the media, I don’t get why they’d want to come here at all—given the current economic mess and high unemployment and underemployment for American NGs. Same with Indian students. Why?

Why do students come here from these two countries? For different reasons.

- China - Because, it is easy to excel in USA. The rest of the US population does not offer much of a challenge. Even mediocre students in China can become the top students here because the White students cannot compete with them. India - It is the same for Indian students. They can excel here. Especially the STEM students are able to use the infrastructure in the labs to make innovations and discoveries which would not be possible in most universities in India.

- China - The moneyed class in China can easily buy land and businesses here so that the communist leadership does not take away their wealth...as it has happened in history. India - The moneyed class buys land in India and villas in Dubai and UK. USA does not have the allure because you do not get cheap household help.

- China - Chinese govt makes the Chinese students steal research and technology from the USA universities and companies. Ideologically it is seen as a good thing. India - Indians who come to USA have never stolen research or technology. Infact, their work is stolen by unscrupulous professors. Indians have deep-seated religious belief of Karma...also, the Indian Govt has no vision for the country and people. There is zero desire to improve the country by stealing technology. Indian govt will also sell out their own people who will do that.

- India - Pollution and filth everywhere has made most of India unliveable. Indians are leaving the country because you cannot breathe in major cities. Infrastructure is shit. Unfortunately, India should not have become a democracy. We should have become a communist state like China.

I think PP's points are spot on. An average Chinese student can easily out performed an US student. An average Chinese graduate here in the US will also have a much better life than an average Chinese graduate in China. This is why they come here: to escape the intense competition in China and to have an easier life, free from political, societal norms and expectations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t get it—if their universities are better than ours, why are their students so desperate to get into U.S. colleges, even to the point of cheating? That just doesn’t add up.

And ironically 2024-2025 we see surge in international students in US colleges even with Trump administration.

1. Very difficult to get into top universities in China.

2. Cachet/prestige from studying abroad is a significant advantage in gaining employment in China.

3. Many want opportunity to emigrate to US and college is an initial step in that process.

Okay, but if their economy is supposedly doing better than the U.S., at least according to the media, I don’t get why they’d want to come here at all—given the current economic mess and high unemployment and underemployment for American NGs. Same with Indian students. Why?

Why do students come here from these two countries? For different reasons.

- China - Because, it is easy to excel in USA. The rest of the US population does not offer much of a challenge. Even mediocre students in China can become the top students here because the White students cannot compete with them. India - It is the same for Indian students. They can excel here. Especially the STEM students are able to use the infrastructure in the labs to make innovations and discoveries which would not be possible in most universities in India.

- China - The moneyed class in China can easily buy land and businesses here so that the communist leadership does not take away their wealth...as it has happened in history. India - The moneyed class buys land in India and villas in Dubai and UK. USA does not have the allure because you do not get cheap household help.

- China - Chinese govt makes the Chinese students steal research and technology from the USA universities and companies. Ideologically it is seen as a good thing. India - Indians who come to USA have never stolen research or technology. Infact, their work is stolen by unscrupulous professors. Indians have deep-seated religious belief of Karma...also, the Indian Govt has no vision for the country and people. There is zero desire to improve the country by stealing technology. Indian govt will also sell out their own people who will do that.

- India - Pollution and filth everywhere has made most of India unliveable. Indians are leaving the country because you cannot breathe in major cities. Infrastructure is shit. Unfortunately, India should not have become a democracy. We should have become a communist state like China.

I think PP's points are spot on. An average Chinese student can easily out performed an US student. An average Chinese graduate here in the US will also have a much better life than an average Chinese graduate in China. This is why they come here: to escape the intense competition in China and to have an easier life, free from political, societal norms and expectations.

The average private school Chinese or Indian student out performs the average US student (across the entire population).

The truly average Chinese or Indian student is barely literate. That's why the PISA scores for China are only for private school kids in Beijing and Shanghai (PISA stopped including China because of this), while India scored basically dead last out of like 100 countries and stopped sitting for the test.

Now...China and India have tons of people so even if only 10% of kids can attend private schools, that still produces lots of kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t get it—if their universities are better than ours, why are their students so desperate to get into U.S. colleges, even to the point of cheating? That just doesn’t add up.

And ironically 2024-2025 we see surge in international students in US colleges even with Trump administration.

1. Very difficult to get into top universities in China.

2. Cachet/prestige from studying abroad is a significant advantage in gaining employment in China.

3. Many want opportunity to emigrate to US and college is an initial step in that process.

Okay, but if their economy is supposedly doing better than the U.S., at least according to the media, I don’t get why they’d want to come here at all—given the current economic mess and high unemployment and underemployment for American NGs. Same with Indian students. Why?

Our salaries are much higher for the same difficulty of job. They can send some home to family and the purchasing power is pretty good. Also some Asian employers have longer workdays and more than 5 days per week as a basic schedule.

Also, having known people from these countries, many of them appreciate our freedom of mobility (even car-centric culture), our relatively nice and large residences (apartments to houses), our less grindy and more socially mobile schools, some freedom from political fear, clean air in our cities, less openly-visible poverty, etc. Also the US still has cutting edge technology and businesses of great interest (Silicon Valley, etc.).

I work with many STEM immigrants who have become citizens or have other legal arrangements. None of them would prefer to leave the US to go "home". They are fairly assimilated since most came during grad school. Their children are born here and usually don't have firm ties to their parents' birth countries except for visiting relatives on vacation.

Okay, but this is where things feel contradictory to me. On one hand, the media on both sides talks about how strong China has become—and to be fair, some of that is true. The infrastructure and industrial growth there are clearly outpacing many developed countries, and at the same time, U.S. companies are still rushing to outsource jobs overseas.

But if China is really doing that well, why do so many people still try to come here for anchor babies, or send their kids to the U.S. for education? And meanwhile on DCUM, people constantly virtue-signal about how merit-based U.S. college admissions supposedly are compared to ours.

So what’s the real story here? If China is so strong and the system works so well, why is there still such a strong pull toward the U.S.? Is the media exaggerating, or are people’s actions telling a different truth?

It’s a country run by democrats in the extreme—forced abortion/child limit policies, social scores and forced conformity to unanimous political thought, where the hell is Jack Ma?/community property. People have to escape for political freedom.

If you do a little research, you will find the one child policy to be unevenly enforced. I remember reading profiles in the NYT of ordinarly Chinese who talked about their 2 or 3 other siblings but of course the reporter never expanded on that wrinkle in the family profiles. Ethnic minorities of which there are many and rural residents were officially allowed 2. There was a story of some rural peasant who had 7 sons and his mentally ill wife has found by a local tourist chained to an outdoor shed. She was basically being used as a breeding machine. Gotta wonder how the village party rep failed to notice that.
The conformity issue? There are actually a lot of voices and code slang the censors are constantly trying to figure out. Only a few years ago there were the strolling protests where people came out in droves to stroll - which isn't illegal but a LOT of people would gather to do that as a form of protest.
Community property? You do know there has been a private real estate bust after a lot of hor real estate speculation the country has been trying to deal with.
Jack Ma is still around. The government decided he was getting too big for his britches when he started to openly criticize them so they got him on some charges.

As for political freedom, I am not sure that was a priority over economic freedom. The party is given the people the latter and that has whet the appetite for the former. Maybe with more responsibility handed to the people, political responsibility will follow.
This form of government has only been around for 50 years. If past is prologue, we should look further into its history to divine what is in store.

I broke the rules here because I listed some names in my original reply but China really hasn’t given much in the way of economic freedom. It’s mostly going that way because of the excess demand and jobs created by the United States capitalist system have been foisted upon them. They’re still derisive of anyone with their own money over there and so many executives have been locked up and fined for bogus reasons

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t get it—if their universities are better than ours, why are their students so desperate to get into U.S. colleges, even to the point of cheating? That just doesn’t add up.

And ironically 2024-2025 we see surge in international students in US colleges even with Trump administration.

1. Very difficult to get into top universities in China.

2. Cachet/prestige from studying abroad is a significant advantage in gaining employment in China.

3. Many want opportunity to emigrate to US and college is an initial step in that process.

Okay, but if their economy is supposedly doing better than the U.S., at least according to the media, I don’t get why they’d want to come here at all—given the current economic mess and high unemployment and underemployment for American NGs. Same with Indian students. Why?

Why do students come here from these two countries? For different reasons.

- China - Because, it is easy to excel in USA. The rest of the US population does not offer much of a challenge. Even mediocre students in China can become the top students here because the White students cannot compete with them. India - It is the same for Indian students. They can excel here. Especially the STEM students are able to use the infrastructure in the labs to make innovations and discoveries which would not be possible in most universities in India.

- China - The moneyed class in China can easily buy land and businesses here so that the communist leadership does not take away their wealth...as it has happened in history. India - The moneyed class buys land in India and villas in Dubai and UK. USA does not have the allure because you do not get cheap household help.

- China - Chinese govt makes the Chinese students steal research and technology from the USA universities and companies. Ideologically it is seen as a good thing. India - Indians who come to USA have never stolen research or technology. Infact, their work is stolen by unscrupulous professors. Indians have deep-seated religious belief of Karma...also, the Indian Govt has no vision for the country and people. There is zero desire to improve the country by stealing technology. Indian govt will also sell out their own people who will do that.

- India - Pollution and filth everywhere has made most of India unliveable. Indians are leaving the country because you cannot breathe in major cities. Infrastructure is shit. Unfortunately, India should not have become a democracy. We should have become a communist state like China.

I think PP's points are spot on. An average Chinese student can easily out performed an US student. An average Chinese graduate here in the US will also have a much better life than an average Chinese graduate in China. This is why they come here: to escape the intense competition in China and to have an easier life, free from political, societal norms and expectations.

The average private school Chinese or Indian student out performs the average US student (across the entire population).

The truly average Chinese or Indian student is barely literate. That's why the PISA scores for China are only for private school kids in Beijing and Shanghai (PISA stopped including China because of this), while India scored basically dead last out of like 100 countries and stopped sitting for the test.

Now...China and India have tons of people so even if only 10% of kids can attend private schools, that still produces lots of kids.

Yeah India has more honors students than the entire US population for scale

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t get it—if their universities are better than ours, why are their students so desperate to get into U.S. colleges, even to the point of cheating? That just doesn’t add up.

And ironically 2024-2025 we see surge in international students in US colleges even with Trump administration.

1. Very difficult to get into top universities in China.

2. Cachet/prestige from studying abroad is a significant advantage in gaining employment in China.

3. Many want opportunity to emigrate to US and college is an initial step in that process.

Okay, but if their economy is supposedly doing better than the U.S., at least according to the media, I don’t get why they’d want to come here at all—given the current economic mess and high unemployment and underemployment for American NGs. Same with Indian students. Why?

Why do students come here from these two countries? For different reasons.

- China - Because, it is easy to excel in USA. The rest of the US population does not offer much of a challenge. Even mediocre students in China can become the top students here because the White students cannot compete with them. India - It is the same for Indian students. They can excel here. Especially the STEM students are able to use the infrastructure in the labs to make innovations and discoveries which would not be possible in most universities in India.

- China - The moneyed class in China can easily buy land and businesses here so that the communist leadership does not take away their wealth...as it has happened in history. India - The moneyed class buys land in India and villas in Dubai and UK. USA does not have the allure because you do not get cheap household help.

- China - Chinese govt makes the Chinese students steal research and technology from the USA universities and companies. Ideologically it is seen as a good thing. India - Indians who come to USA have never stolen research or technology. Infact, their work is stolen by unscrupulous professors. Indians have deep-seated religious belief of Karma...also, the Indian Govt has no vision for the country and people. There is zero desire to improve the country by stealing technology. Indian govt will also sell out their own people who will do that.

- India - Pollution and filth everywhere has made most of India unliveable. Indians are leaving the country because you cannot breathe in major cities. Infrastructure is shit. Unfortunately, India should not have become a democracy. We should have become a communist state like China.

I don’t agree with most of these statements. Regardless of the circumstances, top students should lead their communities toward improving quality of life, rather than leaving for other countries to escape challenges. Doing otherwise is selfish. It does not convince anyone that the students are superior it only reinforce the impression that they are for themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t get it—if their universities are better than ours, why are their students so desperate to get into U.S. colleges, even to the point of cheating? That just doesn’t add up.

And ironically 2024-2025 we see surge in international students in US colleges even with Trump administration.

1. Very difficult to get into top universities in China.

2. Cachet/prestige from studying abroad is a significant advantage in gaining employment in China.

3. Many want opportunity to emigrate to US and college is an initial step in that process.

Okay, but if their economy is supposedly doing better than the U.S., at least according to the media, I don’t get why they’d want to come here at all—given the current economic mess and high unemployment and underemployment for American NGs. Same with Indian students. Why?

Because, it is easy to excel in USA. The rest of the US population does not offer much of a challenge. Even mediocre students in China can become the top students here because the White students cannot compete with them.

This is so so true. As an engineering faculty at t100 school, I see how much American kids struggle with basic math they should have known since middle/high schools. For example, how complicated can y=mx+b be? When students in my sophomore-level class see a line segment connecting two points on a plane that happens to not intersect the y-axis, so many of them have trouble figuring out the m and b. It's beyond disappointing. International students (not too many these days) often seem dumbfounded when I have to work out simple calculations on the whiteboard so that everyone could follow.

DP. Sad commentary. On the state of US education.

OTOH, I’ve seen Chinese students struggle mightily with humanities classes that require critical and/or creative thinking bc the PRC educational system doesn’t develop these skills.

So it’s not as simple as “Chinese students better”.

Critical thinking and creative mind will be the future. AI will replace the human calculators.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t get it—if their universities are better than ours, why are their students so desperate to get into U.S. colleges, even to the point of cheating? That just doesn’t add up.

And ironically 2024-2025 we see surge in international students in US colleges even with Trump administration.

1. Very difficult to get into top universities in China.

2. Cachet/prestige from studying abroad is a significant advantage in gaining employment in China.

3. Many want opportunity to emigrate to US and college is an initial step in that process.

Okay, but if their economy is supposedly doing better than the U.S., at least according to the media, I don’t get why they’d want to come here at all—given the current economic mess and high unemployment and underemployment for American NGs. Same with Indian students. Why?

Why do students come here from these two countries? For different reasons.

- China - Because, it is easy to excel in USA. The rest of the US population does not offer much of a challenge. Even mediocre students in China can become the top students here because the White students cannot compete with them. India - It is the same for Indian students. They can excel here. Especially the STEM students are able to use the infrastructure in the labs to make innovations and discoveries which would not be possible in most universities in India.

- China - The moneyed class in China can easily buy land and businesses here so that the communist leadership does not take away their wealth...as it has happened in history. India - The moneyed class buys land in India and villas in Dubai and UK. USA does not have the allure because you do not get cheap household help.

- China - Chinese govt makes the Chinese students steal research and technology from the USA universities and companies. Ideologically it is seen as a good thing. India - Indians who come to USA have never stolen research or technology. Infact, their work is stolen by unscrupulous professors. Indians have deep-seated religious belief of Karma...also, the Indian Govt has no vision for the country and people. There is zero desire to improve the country by stealing technology. Indian govt will also sell out their own people who will do that.

- India - Pollution and filth everywhere has made most of India unliveable. Indians are leaving the country because you cannot breathe in major cities. Infrastructure is shit. Unfortunately, India should not have become a democracy. We should have become a communist state like China.

I think PP's points are spot on. An average Chinese student can easily out performed an US student. An average Chinese graduate here in the US will also have a much better life than an average Chinese graduate in China. This is why they come here: to escape the intense competition in China and to have an easier life, free from political, societal norms and expectations.

This is really just a numbers game, not proof that any race or nationality is inherently superior. With three times the population, and assuming intelligence is similarly distributed, China will naturally have more people at the high end of the IQ spectrum. That’s about scale, not superiority. And in practice, innovation only needs a handful of creative minds—as Nobel Prize data clearly shows.

[Anonymous]

Now you know why so many DCUm parents are posting there kids SAT as above 1550.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Now you know why so many DCUm parents are posting there kids SAT as above 1550.

Kids are human, not numbers.

[Anonymous]

You may not know that those Chinese breakins find their way into DMV land for a couple of thousand dollars

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:America is still better. Turns out even Chineses love our holistic admission processes.

My American kid did far superior with the UK schools. Turns out UK schools only care about your academics and scores. Your essay is about what you want to study and why. They don't care about your sunny personality. They know the US GPA system is BS and don't ask for a high school transcript.

Which school?

They also love full pay Americans because they pay about triple their home students pay.

Even at full pay, UK schools can come out cheaper. There is no "Dean of Student Success," or "Vice Provost for community outreach". No giant school football stadiums.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:America is still better. Turns out even Chineses love our holistic admission processes.

My American kid did far superior with the UK schools. Turns out UK schools only care about your academics and scores. Your essay is about what you want to study and why. They don't care about your sunny personality. They know the US GPA system is BS and don't ask for a high school transcript.

Which school?

They also love full pay Americans because they pay about triple their home students pay.

It is one of the high rank unis.