Massive cheating on SAT?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I saw saw some Chinese guy’s reel about how Chinese kids who can’t get into China’s top schools easily get into American top schools.

Buddy, is it because they cheat and copy other people’s work? Is that how they study here too? I’m weary of sending my kid to a college with a large Asian presence.

Buddy, maybe do a little research.
The Chinese system for college is based on ONE exam and you only have a single shot at it.
Their students start preparing for it in middle school and they have to stay on track. Some families are not confident about their kids and so they take them off that track and attend international schools instead and so schools abroad are the only outcome for that alternative track. There is no undoing it because it would be too late.

This is the same case for Japan, Taiwan and Korea. That single exam is a legacy of the imperial service examination. You only get one shot at it.

Now how they perform here and cheat, well, I can tell you that I knew a good number of white students at my Seven Sisters college who were buying essays and papers. I watched one friend basically write the thesis for another friend right before graduation because the department advisor said she wouldnt' walk if there was no thesis handed in. The finishing touch was that this girl's parents were there for graduation and knew what was happening and wanted that thesis ghost written too.

[Anonymous]

America is still better. Turns out even Chineses love our holistic admission processes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m feeling so bad for Hong Kong. It used to be a modern ethical country.

It was a British colony.
And the British did not allow free democratic rule until just before the handover for virtue signaling.

It used to have all the human rights any modern free society enjoys even with limited democracy. The UK was a much better colonizer than CCP China.

There used to be signs in Hong Kong stating "No dogs and No Chinese allowed".
Yeah, the British were great exemplars of human rights.

Did you just wake up from your coffin?

Were you in Hong Kong before the 1997 handover?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t get it—if their universities are better than ours, why are their students so desperate to get into U.S. colleges, even to the point of cheating? That just doesn’t add up.

And ironically 2024-2025 we see surge in international students in US colleges even with Trump administration.

1. Very difficult to get into top universities in China.

2. Cachet/prestige from studying abroad is a significant advantage in gaining employment in China.

3. Many want opportunity to emigrate to US and college is an initial step in that process.

Okay, but if their economy is supposedly doing better than the U.S., at least according to the media, I don’t get why they’d want to come here at all—given the current economic mess and high unemployment and underemployment for American NGs. Same with Indian students. Why?

Our salaries are much higher for the same difficulty of job. They can send some home to family and the purchasing power is pretty good. Also some Asian employers have longer workdays and more than 5 days per week as a basic schedule.

Also, having known people from these countries, many of them appreciate our freedom of mobility (even car-centric culture), our relatively nice and large residences (apartments to houses), our less grindy and more socially mobile schools, some freedom from political fear, clean air in our cities, less openly-visible poverty, etc. Also the US still has cutting edge technology and businesses of great interest (Silicon Valley, etc.).

I work with many STEM immigrants who have become citizens or have other legal arrangements. None of them would prefer to leave the US to go "home". They are fairly assimilated since most came during grad school. Their children are born here and usually don't have firm ties to their parents' birth countries except for visiting relatives on vacation.

Okay, but this is where things feel contradictory to me. On one hand, the media on both sides talks about how strong China has become—and to be fair, some of that is true. The infrastructure and industrial growth there are clearly outpacing many developed countries, and at the same time, U.S. companies are still rushing to outsource jobs overseas.

But if China is really doing that well, why do so many people still try to come here for anchor babies, or send their kids to the U.S. for education? And meanwhile on DCUM, people constantly virtue-signal about how merit-based U.S. college admissions supposedly are compared to ours.

So what’s the real story here? If China is so strong and the system works so well, why is there still such a strong pull toward the U.S.? Is the media exaggerating, or are people’s actions telling a different truth?

In China there are only like 100 universities that are any good…beyond that it’s literally the equivalent of mail order diplomas. India is basically the same way.

These Chinese colleges enroll like 2 MM students, but there are like 72 MM Chinese from 18-21…assuming 10% go to college, that still leaves 5MM students that need to go somewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t get it—if their universities are better than ours, why are their students so desperate to get into U.S. colleges, even to the point of cheating? That just doesn’t add up.

And ironically 2024-2025 we see surge in international students in US colleges even with Trump administration.

The high scoring kids in China get into the highest ranked colleges.
The kids who don't perform well are shipped abroad.

So there you have it. The children of the Politburo who study at Harvard probably couldn't score high enough for the elite colleges there. But I guess it's no different than the Obama kids and Jared Kushner being given a spot at Harvard too. They have hooks.
The hosting of all the mediocre Chinese students in US colleges is mostly about finances. Foreign students are full pay and a big cash cow. So many schools in the US have lowered themselves down to being a degree mill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t get it—if their universities are better than ours, why are their students so desperate to get into U.S. colleges, even to the point of cheating? That just doesn’t add up.

And ironically 2024-2025 we see surge in international students in US colleges even with Trump administration.

1. Very difficult to get into top universities in China.

2. Cachet/prestige from studying abroad is a significant advantage in gaining employment in China.

3. Many want opportunity to emigrate to US and college is an initial step in that process.

Okay, but if their economy is supposedly doing better than the U.S., at least according to the media, I don’t get why they’d want to come here at all—given the current economic mess and high unemployment and underemployment for American NGs. Same with Indian students. Why?

Our salaries are much higher for the same difficulty of job. They can send some home to family and the purchasing power is pretty good. Also some Asian employers have longer workdays and more than 5 days per week as a basic schedule.

Also, having known people from these countries, many of them appreciate our freedom of mobility (even car-centric culture), our relatively nice and large residences (apartments to houses), our less grindy and more socially mobile schools, some freedom from political fear, clean air in our cities, less openly-visible poverty, etc. Also the US still has cutting edge technology and businesses of great interest (Silicon Valley, etc.).

I work with many STEM immigrants who have become citizens or have other legal arrangements. None of them would prefer to leave the US to go "home". They are fairly assimilated since most came during grad school. Their children are born here and usually don't have firm ties to their parents' birth countries except for visiting relatives on vacation.

Okay, but this is where things feel contradictory to me. On one hand, the media on both sides talks about how strong China has become—and to be fair, some of that is true. The infrastructure and industrial growth there are clearly outpacing many developed countries, and at the same time, U.S. companies are still rushing to outsource jobs overseas.

But if China is really doing that well, why do so many people still try to come here for anchor babies, or send their kids to the U.S. for education? And meanwhile on DCUM, people constantly virtue-signal about how merit-based U.S. college admissions supposedly are compared to ours.

So what’s the real story here? If China is so strong and the system works so well, why is there still such a strong pull toward the U.S.? Is the media exaggerating, or are people’s actions telling a different truth?

In China there are only like 100 universities that are any good…beyond that it’s literally the equivalent of mail order diplomas. India is basically the same way.

These Chinese colleges enroll like 2 MM students, but there are like 72 MM Chinese from 18-21…assuming 10% go to college, that still leaves 5MM students that need to go somewhere.

Well, in the U.S. there’s probably an oversupply of bachelor’s degrees too—especially now that companies are laying off full-time workers, ramping up outsourcing, and leaning more on AI. It feels like we’re just moving the same social problem or wealth distribution problems from one country to another, while universities are more than happy to take full-pay students. At this point, America is basically exporting education as a service industry. And it sounds even worse if prestigious schools are willing to admit students who cheated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t get it—if their universities are better than ours, why are their students so desperate to get into U.S. colleges, even to the point of cheating? That just doesn’t add up.

And ironically 2024-2025 we see surge in international students in US colleges even with Trump administration.

The high scoring kids in China get into the highest ranked colleges.
The kids who don't perform well are shipped abroad.

So there you have it. The children of the Politburo who study at Harvard probably couldn't score high enough for the elite colleges there. But I guess it's no different than the Obama kids and Jared Kushner being given a spot at Harvard too. They have hooks.
The hosting of all the mediocre Chinese students in US colleges is mostly about finances. Foreign students are full pay and a big cash cow. So many schools in the US have lowered themselves down to being a degree mill.

Ok but what do they do after they graduate? Are they Chinese version of Jared Kushner?

[Anonymous]

By now, it’s pretty clear that a degree no longer guarantees a high-paying job or better future. I am really curious how long everyone can live in this illusion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t get it—if their universities are better than ours, why are their students so desperate to get into U.S. colleges, even to the point of cheating? That just doesn’t add up.

And ironically 2024-2025 we see surge in international students in US colleges even with Trump administration.

1. Very difficult to get into top universities in China.

2. Cachet/prestige from studying abroad is a significant advantage in gaining employment in China.

3. Many want opportunity to emigrate to US and college is an initial step in that process.

Okay, but if their economy is supposedly doing better than the U.S., at least according to the media, I don’t get why they’d want to come here at all—given the current economic mess and high unemployment and underemployment for American NGs. Same with Indian students. Why?

Our salaries are much higher for the same difficulty of job. They can send some home to family and the purchasing power is pretty good. Also some Asian employers have longer workdays and more than 5 days per week as a basic schedule.

Also, having known people from these countries, many of them appreciate our freedom of mobility (even car-centric culture), our relatively nice and large residences (apartments to houses), our less grindy and more socially mobile schools, some freedom from political fear, clean air in our cities, less openly-visible poverty, etc. Also the US still has cutting edge technology and businesses of great interest (Silicon Valley, etc.).

I work with many STEM immigrants who have become citizens or have other legal arrangements. None of them would prefer to leave the US to go "home". They are fairly assimilated since most came during grad school. Their children are born here and usually don't have firm ties to their parents' birth countries except for visiting relatives on vacation.

Okay, but this is where things feel contradictory to me. On one hand, the media on both sides talks about how strong China has become—and to be fair, some of that is true. The infrastructure and industrial growth there are clearly outpacing many developed countries, and at the same time, U.S. companies are still rushing to outsource jobs overseas.

But if China is really doing that well, why do so many people still try to come here for anchor babies, or send their kids to the U.S. for education? And meanwhile on DCUM, people constantly virtue-signal about how merit-based U.S. college admissions supposedly are compared to ours.

So what’s the real story here? If China is so strong and the system works so well, why is there still such a strong pull toward the U.S.? Is the media exaggerating, or are people’s actions telling a different truth?

In China there are only like 100 universities that are any good…beyond that it’s literally the equivalent of mail order diplomas. India is basically the same way.

These Chinese colleges enroll like 2 MM students, but there are like 72 MM Chinese from 18-21…assuming 10% go to college, that still leaves 5MM students that need to go somewhere.

Well, in the U.S. there’s probably an oversupply of bachelor’s degrees too—especially now that companies are laying off full-time workers, ramping up outsourcing, and leaning more on AI. It feels like we’re just moving the same social problem or wealth distribution problems from one country to another, while universities are more than happy to take full-pay students. At this point, America is basically exporting education as a service industry. And it sounds even worse if prestigious schools are willing to admit students who cheated.

Hey, look at all the BS "certificates" in Global Energy PMP or non-profit fundraising being marketed by Ivies and their peers. It's embarrassing. There was actually a little mention about this in my Ivy alumni magazine about the Provosts debating whether a certificate in Finance Management from their open to everyone program would dilute the value of the MBA from their official business school and dilute the school's brand in general. It's a balance between trying to maintain their dignity and using their prestige to lure cash in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t get it—if their universities are better than ours, why are their students so desperate to get into U.S. colleges, even to the point of cheating? That just doesn’t add up.

And ironically 2024-2025 we see surge in international students in US colleges even with Trump administration.

1. Very difficult to get into top universities in China.

2. Cachet/prestige from studying abroad is a significant advantage in gaining employment in China.

3. Many want opportunity to emigrate to US and college is an initial step in that process.

Okay, but if their economy is supposedly doing better than the U.S., at least according to the media, I don’t get why they’d want to come here at all—given the current economic mess and high unemployment and underemployment for American NGs. Same with Indian students. Why?

Our salaries are much higher for the same difficulty of job. They can send some home to family and the purchasing power is pretty good. Also some Asian employers have longer workdays and more than 5 days per week as a basic schedule.

Also, having known people from these countries, many of them appreciate our freedom of mobility (even car-centric culture), our relatively nice and large residences (apartments to houses), our less grindy and more socially mobile schools, some freedom from political fear, clean air in our cities, less openly-visible poverty, etc. Also the US still has cutting edge technology and businesses of great interest (Silicon Valley, etc.).

I work with many STEM immigrants who have become citizens or have other legal arrangements. None of them would prefer to leave the US to go "home". They are fairly assimilated since most came during grad school. Their children are born here and usually don't have firm ties to their parents' birth countries except for visiting relatives on vacation.

Okay, but this is where things feel contradictory to me. On one hand, the media on both sides talks about how strong China has become—and to be fair, some of that is true. The infrastructure and industrial growth there are clearly outpacing many developed countries, and at the same time, U.S. companies are still rushing to outsource jobs overseas.

But if China is really doing that well, why do so many people still try to come here for anchor babies, or send their kids to the U.S. for education? And meanwhile on DCUM, people constantly virtue-signal about how merit-based U.S. college admissions supposedly are compared to ours.

So what’s the real story here? If China is so strong and the system works so well, why is there still such a strong pull toward the U.S.? Is the media exaggerating, or are people’s actions telling a different truth?

Just because an economy is strong and growing, doesn't mean that people are happy, well-paid, enjoying the variety of life choices available to them, or living in a clean environment. You are confusing the measurement of an economy in monetary terms/economic productivity metrics with life satisfaction and happiness. America's statement of values is: "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness". The U.S. still does a pretty good job regarding these things. Especially for employable, educated earners.

Anchor babies are risk hedges for those who return. And perhaps keys to a better life permanently in the U.S. Like acquiring a useful citizenship directly. I have a Ukrainian friend who got Canadian citizenship in the 2000s and then moved to Europe for good as soon as he became a Canadian dual citizen. I thought he'd never need it. I also never would have predicted Russia driving tanks through his currently occupied beachside Ukrainian hometown. Rich people in China can attract attention and lose their liberty and assets in ways that would never happen in the US. It's similar to the Russian oligarchs buying real estate in London. And rich Russians send their kids outside the country for school as well (or did). In some places in China, people do fear the pollution. Expat Americans in Shanghai and other cities worry a lot about air quality. I'd imagine wealthy locals also care. There were widespread problems a few years ago about adulterated baby formula. That kind of issue. Some standards are low. Even if the economy is growing.

Only some Chinese people are interested in moving to the U.S. With a population so large, a small percentage creates a great volume of school and job applicants. And the absolute size of their cohort of top % of students is just mathematically larger than in the US. My Chinese coworker who is trying to get citizenship (works at my company in the US after earning a transfer from our China office) loves Marvel movies, tours all the big American landmarks and cities, is excited about big American cars, and watches football. I am white and born in the US, and I like to watch Korean mini-series dramas, vacation in Europe, drive small cars, and don't like any pro sports. Who fits in better at work? He does!

Plus the US has global cultural hegemony still. For example, in every big country, you can find rappers who imitate American rappers right down to the vocal styles and gestures. That's just an easy current example. Everbody wearing blue jeans is an old one. The U.S. is still cool like Rome was in its post-peak but still big empire days. I make no bets on how long the situation lasts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t get it—if their universities are better than ours, why are their students so desperate to get into U.S. colleges, even to the point of cheating? That just doesn’t add up.

And ironically 2024-2025 we see surge in international students in US colleges even with Trump administration.

The high scoring kids in China get into the highest ranked colleges.
The kids who don't perform well are shipped abroad.

So there you have it. The children of the Politburo who study at Harvard probably couldn't score high enough for the elite colleges there. But I guess it's no different than the Obama kids and Jared Kushner being given a spot at Harvard too. They have hooks.
The hosting of all the mediocre Chinese students in US colleges is mostly about finances. Foreign students are full pay and a big cash cow. So many schools in the US have lowered themselves down to being a degree mill.

Ok but what do they do after they graduate? Are they Chinese version of Jared Kushner?

Probably. China has been suffering from a glut of bachelor's degrees and their youth are having trouble landing work. They're suffering from the same "everyone should go to college" problem as the US.
Makes me think about the period right before the Bolshevik revolution. Too many educated people without an outlet and the restlessness from that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don’t get it—if their universities are better than ours, why are their students so desperate to get into U.S. colleges, even to the point of cheating? That just doesn’t add up.

And ironically 2024-2025 we see surge in international students in US colleges even with Trump administration.

1. Very difficult to get into top universities in China.

2. Cachet/prestige from studying abroad is a significant advantage in gaining employment in China.

3. Many want opportunity to emigrate to US and college is an initial step in that process.

Okay, but if their economy is supposedly doing better than the U.S., at least according to the media, I don’t get why they’d want to come here at all—given the current economic mess and high unemployment and underemployment for American NGs. Same with Indian students. Why?

Our salaries are much higher for the same difficulty of job. They can send some home to family and the purchasing power is pretty good. Also some Asian employers have longer workdays and more than 5 days per week as a basic schedule.

Also, having known people from these countries, many of them appreciate our freedom of mobility (even car-centric culture), our relatively nice and large residences (apartments to houses), our less grindy and more socially mobile schools, some freedom from political fear, clean air in our cities, less openly-visible poverty, etc. Also the US still has cutting edge technology and businesses of great interest (Silicon Valley, etc.).

I work with many STEM immigrants who have become citizens or have other legal arrangements. None of them would prefer to leave the US to go "home". They are fairly assimilated since most came during grad school. Their children are born here and usually don't have firm ties to their parents' birth countries except for visiting relatives on vacation.

Okay, but this is where things feel contradictory to me. On one hand, the media on both sides talks about how strong China has become—and to be fair, some of that is true. The infrastructure and industrial growth there are clearly outpacing many developed countries, and at the same time, U.S. companies are still rushing to outsource jobs overseas.

But if China is really doing that well, why do so many people still try to come here for anchor babies, or send their kids to the U.S. for education? And meanwhile on DCUM, people constantly virtue-signal about how merit-based U.S. college admissions supposedly are compared to ours.

So what’s the real story here? If China is so strong and the system works so well, why is there still such a strong pull toward the U.S.? Is the media exaggerating, or are people’s actions telling a different truth?

In China there are only like 100 universities that are any good…beyond that it’s literally the equivalent of mail order diplomas. India is basically the same way.

These Chinese colleges enroll like 2 MM students, but there are like 72 MM Chinese from 18-21…assuming 10% go to college, that still leaves 5MM students that need to go somewhere.

Well, in the U.S. there’s probably an oversupply of bachelor’s degrees too—especially now that companies are laying off full-time workers, ramping up outsourcing, and leaning more on AI. It feels like we’re just moving the same social problem or wealth distribution problems from one country to another, while universities are more than happy to take full-pay students. At this point, America is basically exporting education as a service industry. And it sounds even worse if prestigious schools are willing to admit students who cheated.

Hey, look at all the BS "certificates" in Global Energy PMP or non-profit fundraising being marketed by Ivies and their peers. It's embarrassing. There was actually a little mention about this in my Ivy alumni magazine about the Provosts debating whether a certificate in Finance Management from their open to everyone program would dilute the value of the MBA from their official business school and dilute the school's brand in general. It's a balance between trying to maintain their dignity and using their prestige to lure cash in.

Saw MIT’s online AI exec program on YouTube… so futuristic, so executive

[Anonymous]

Alright, looks like it’s finally time to move to Mars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:America is still better. Turns out even Chineses love our holistic admission processes.

My American kid did far superior with the UK schools. Turns out UK schools only care about your academics and scores. Your essay is about what you want to study and why. They don't care about your sunny personality. They know the US GPA system is BS and don't ask for a high school transcript.

[Anonymous]

When I took the SAT, the proctor took one sip of a drink and then she started farting and then she ran out the room. A bunch of kids started cheating. I think they did something to her or she was in on it/faking for someone she knew.