Is there any way to convince a young man to step it up because he will never do better?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was engaged at 25 to my college boyfriend after dating about 5 years. I would have left if he did not propose within a year or so of that time frame.

I don't understand all the posters advising their kids to wait until they're in their late 20's or 30s to get married.

In this forum, there's plenty of stories of the long lasting happy marriages where people met early (in college or early 20s) and married before they turned 30.

You can save money by living together being DINKs working on your future together. With combined household income, you can get on the property ladder faster. You bring less baggage. You have a better chance of being true equals (whereas that's harder with a financially established man in his mid-30s marrying a 25-year old woman who is just beginning her career).

I guess OP needs to understand WHY her son isn't ready to commit. Whether it's a general fear of marriage, or something about this GF in particular.

The most likely/common issue why the son hasn't proposed is some form of sexual incompatibility. To someone like OP, that's something that would be too "shameful" to discuss with the gf or her son. But since OP isn't really concerned about her son's happiness, it doesn't matter. And of course the son is never going to discuss sexual stuff with his mommy. Nor would the gf. The gf might have discussed sexual issues with the son's sister, but again, wouldn't be able to discuss such stuff with an overbearing judgmental person like the OP.

OP's son is apparently in his first-ever serious long term relationship, and OP herself perceives her own son as such an unattractive "loser" (i.e. not sexually attractive to other high quality future females) that the current gf is his ONLY shot at "happiness."

Maybe OP's son is terrible and clumsy in bed. Maybe both of them are and are too cowed and timid by family members such as OP to realize it doesn't have to be that way.

Maybe the reason the son isn't willing to commit is because his controlling momma is trying to force him to get married.

Could be a lot of reasons, but OP isn't the type of person who will be able to get a real or honest answer from her son, because she's not looking for answers. She's looking for obedience and compliance to her gameplan for the lives of her son and his gf.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Oh, my. OP, men have a lot longer runway on marriage than women do. Yes, even in 2023. Your son can marry at 38, or 42, and marry a woman in her 20s. In fact, many men in their 20s are being urged to wait until their late 30s to settle down with a woman at least ten years younger. He can bide his time as long as he wants. Women don't enjoy the same timeline and feel pressure to seal the deal years before men do.

^^^ This....

I am a 37 years old male and I am currently married to a 25 years old wife and life is great for me. I met my wife when I was 35 and she was 23 and we got married three months after the first date. I spent twelve years between the age 23 and 35 to become the best version of myself chasing excellence, and that was all I did. I spent a lot of time in the gym, learned new hobbies (flying drone, music, golf, martial arts), climbed up the corporate ladder so that I could be more attractive to the opposite sex. I always knew that I would eventually find the right person for me and that person would be much younger than I. If OP's son is not doing anything to "enhance" his "dating" value, that's another story.

Creepy

Why is it creepy? Aren't both adult?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Oh, my. OP, men have a lot longer runway on marriage than women do. Yes, even in 2023. Your son can marry at 38, or 42, and marry a woman in her 20s. In fact, many men in their 20s are being urged to wait until their late 30s to settle down with a woman at least ten years younger. He can bide his time as long as he wants. Women don't enjoy the same timeline and feel pressure to seal the deal years before men do.

^^^ This....

I am a 37 years old male and I am currently married to a 25 years old wife and life is great for me. I met my wife when I was 35 and she was 23 and we got married three months after the first date. I spent twelve years between the age 23 and 35 to become the best version of myself chasing excellence, and that was all I did. I spent a lot of time in the gym, learned new hobbies (flying drone, music, golf, martial arts), climbed up the corporate ladder so that I could be more attractive to the opposite sex. I always knew that I would eventually find the right person for me and that person would be much younger than I. If OP's son is not doing anything to "enhance" his "dating" value, that's another story.

Creepy

What's the creepy part? Two heterosexual adults falling in love, having sex, and getting married?

Figures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forget about what other posters wrote regarding "boundaries", "no contact" etc. This must be a weird American concept. In all European cultures that I know, there would be an assorted group of concerned relatives talking to your son about this.

It is the family's responsibility to point out negatives in order to help the adult child. Who else do it if not you?

I grew up in one of those European cultures. You know nothing about us. I have never had an assorted group of relatives talking to me about who I should marry. What kind of third-world shit is this?

I am the poster whom you have quoted. I myself come from Europe, with a cultural background in four European countries.

Name the countries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, if your son has a great job in tech and the ability to hold down a relationship for 5 years, I don't agree that he'll never do better just because he's not getting married at 25. You haven't said what makes him such a flake other than he hasn't . . . moved to a new city factoring in his girlfriend? Like, what are you even asking him to do here? Leaving aside the weird "I always knew I'd snag a young hottie if I got rich enough" angle this thread is taking - 25 is on the young side for men or women to get married.

I cannot think of a single relationship that could be improved by a mom insisting the couple get married before one (or both) of them are ready.

It's nice that you like this girl, truly. Don't wreck your relationship with your son troubleshooting his relationship with his girlfriend, which seems to be doing just fine without your input.

They have been together FIVE YEARS. Even if they were dating in college, he should be talking engagement (even with a far off wedding date) or maybe buying a house together and planning a future life together.

I disagree. Too young, for both of them. I actively discourage my kids from getting married before they are like 28+.

See, don’t you see the irony in what you just said? You are all over the OP for getting too involved in her adult son’s life, but it’s ok for you to tell your own adult kids at what age they should marry. What’s the difference?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Oh, my. OP, men have a lot longer runway on marriage than women do. Yes, even in 2023. Your son can marry at 38, or 42, and marry a woman in her 20s. In fact, many men in their 20s are being urged to wait until their late 30s to settle down with a woman at least ten years younger. He can bide his time as long as he wants. Women don't enjoy the same timeline and feel pressure to seal the deal years before men do.

^^^ This....

I am a 37 years old male and I am currently married to a 25 years old wife and life is great for me. I met my wife when I was 35 and she was 23 and we got married three months after the first date. I spent twelve years between the age 23 and 35 to become the best version of myself chasing excellence, and that was all I did. I spent a lot of time in the gym, learned new hobbies (flying drone, music, golf, martial arts), climbed up the corporate ladder so that I could be more attractive to the opposite sex. I always knew that I would eventually find the right person for me and that person would be much younger than I. If OP's son is not doing anything to "enhance" his "dating" value, that's another story.

Creepy

What's the creepy part? Two heterosexual adults falling in love, having sex, and getting married?

Figures.

DP but here's the creepy part: I always knew that I would eventually find the right person for me and that person would be much younger than I.

Sounds like he chose not to date 23 year olds when he was 23 because the right person for him had to be "much younger" and he waited until he was 35 to date a 23 year old. That's a crazy mindset, even Leonardo DiCaprio didn't hold off on a sex life until he could legally bang someone a decade+ younger. It's one thing to think 23-25 year old women are attractive, it's another to think "sure, maybe if you're 37."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You likely over-mothered him in his youth (you’re doing it right now) which led him to his present immaturity, and now it’s too late and life’s school of hard knocks will do the teaching here. Men have to lose a good woman in order to learn. Let him regret it!

What does learn from it mean in this context? Adults do not do better all the time and regret it for life. It is mathematically impossible for everyone to find a better mate after every breakup. “The one that got away…” is a real thing. I have friends and family in their 40s and 50s still thinking about an ex from decades ago.

This is only true if you have a false notion that there is a single linear ordering of quality of a person. Different people have different needs and interests.

The seaweed is always greener in somebody else's lake.

Exactly. The "one that got away" trope refers to using 20/20 hindsight to punish onesself with unnecessary regret, rather than face the reality of life in the present and making the best of it, realizing that there were probably reasons that the past opportunities didn't work out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Telling him his GF is mommy-approved will definitely have the intended effect. Bonus points if you throw in how she reminds you of you at her age.

Blech.

Maybe OP should tell her son "She love you long time."

That will persuade him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Oh, my. OP, men have a lot longer runway on marriage than women do. Yes, even in 2023. Your son can marry at 38, or 42, and marry a woman in her 20s. In fact, many men in their 20s are being urged to wait until their late 30s to settle down with a woman at least ten years younger. He can bide his time as long as he wants. Women don't enjoy the same timeline and feel pressure to seal the deal years before men do.

^^^ This....

I am a 37 years old male and I am currently married to a 25 years old wife and life is great for me. I met my wife when I was 35 and she was 23 and we got married three months after the first date. I spent twelve years between the age 23 and 35 to become the best version of myself chasing excellence, and that was all I did. I spent a lot of time in the gym, learned new hobbies (flying drone, music, golf, martial arts), climbed up the corporate ladder so that I could be more attractive to the opposite sex. I always knew that I would eventually find the right person for me and that person would be much younger than I. If OP's son is not doing anything to "enhance" his "dating" value, that's another story.

Creepy

What's the creepy part? Two heterosexual adults falling in love, having sex, and getting married?

Figures.

The age difference is creepy. If one of my daughters came home at that age with a guy in his mid-30s I’d be creeped out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forget about what other posters wrote regarding "boundaries", "no contact" etc. This must be a weird American concept. In all European cultures that I know, there would be an assorted group of concerned relatives talking to your son about this.

It is the family's responsibility to point out negatives in order to help the adult child. Who else do it if not you?

I grew up in one of those European cultures. You know nothing about us. I have never had an assorted group of relatives talking to me about who I should marry. What kind of third-world shit is this?

I am the poster whom you have quoted. I myself come from Europe, with a cultural background in four European countries.

Name the countries.

I'm the PP you quoted. Austria, Hungary, Germany, France.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Oh, my. OP, men have a lot longer runway on marriage than women do. Yes, even in 2023. Your son can marry at 38, or 42, and marry a woman in her 20s. In fact, many men in their 20s are being urged to wait until their late 30s to settle down with a woman at least ten years younger. He can bide his time as long as he wants. Women don't enjoy the same timeline and feel pressure to seal the deal years before men do.

^^^ This....

I am a 37 years old male and I am currently married to a 25 years old wife and life is great for me. I met my wife when I was 35 and she was 23 and we got married three months after the first date. I spent twelve years between the age 23 and 35 to become the best version of myself chasing excellence, and that was all I did. I spent a lot of time in the gym, learned new hobbies (flying drone, music, golf, martial arts), climbed up the corporate ladder so that I could be more attractive to the opposite sex. I always knew that I would eventually find the right person for me and that person would be much younger than I. If OP's son is not doing anything to "enhance" his "dating" value, that's another story.

Creepy

What's the creepy part? Two heterosexual adults falling in love, having sex, and getting married?

Figures.

DP but here's the creepy part: I always knew that I would eventually find the right person for me and that person would be much younger than I.

Sounds like he chose not to date 23 year olds when he was 23 because the right person for him had to be "much younger" and he waited until he was 35 to date a 23 year old. That's a crazy mindset, even Leonardo DiCaprio didn't hold off on a sex life until he could legally bang someone a decade+ younger. It's one thing to think 23-25 year old women are attractive, it's another to think "sure, maybe if you're 37."

Sounds like you think healthy adult people in their 20's and 30's meeting, falling in love, having sex, and getting married is creepy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forget about what other posters wrote regarding "boundaries", "no contact" etc. This must be a weird American concept. In all European cultures that I know, there would be an assorted group of concerned relatives talking to your son about this.

It is the family's responsibility to point out negatives in order to help the adult child. Who else do it if not you?

I grew up in one of those European cultures. You know nothing about us. I have never had an assorted group of relatives talking to me about who I should marry. What kind of third-world shit is this?

I am the poster whom you have quoted. I myself come from Europe, with a cultural background in four European countries.

Name the countries.

I'm the PP you quoted. Austria, Hungary, Germany, France.

I'm pretty sure most people in their 20's in all of these countries would basically tell their Moms to GTFO if she tried to tell them who to get married to or when they should do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Oh, my. OP, men have a lot longer runway on marriage than women do. Yes, even in 2023. Your son can marry at 38, or 42, and marry a woman in her 20s. In fact, many men in their 20s are being urged to wait until their late 30s to settle down with a woman at least ten years younger. He can bide his time as long as he wants. Women don't enjoy the same timeline and feel pressure to seal the deal years before men do.

^^^ This....

I am a 37 years old male and I am currently married to a 25 years old wife and life is great for me. I met my wife when I was 35 and she was 23 and we got married three months after the first date. I spent twelve years between the age 23 and 35 to become the best version of myself chasing excellence, and that was all I did. I spent a lot of time in the gym, learned new hobbies (flying drone, music, golf, martial arts), climbed up the corporate ladder so that I could be more attractive to the opposite sex. I always knew that I would eventually find the right person for me and that person would be much younger than I. If OP's son is not doing anything to "enhance" his "dating" value, that's another story.

Creepy

What's the creepy part? Two heterosexual adults falling in love, having sex, and getting married?

Figures.

The age difference is creepy. If one of my daughters came home at that age with a guy in his mid-30s I’d be creeped out.

And I find it creepy that you're obsessed with your adult daughters' sex lives to such a remarkable degree. Why are you such a misogynist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You likely over-mothered him in his youth (you’re doing it right now) which led him to his present immaturity, and now it’s too late and life’s school of hard knocks will do the teaching here. Men have to lose a good woman in order to learn. Let him regret it!

What does learn from it mean in this context? Adults do not do better all the time and regret it for life. It is mathematically impossible for everyone to find a better mate after every breakup. “The one that got away…” is a real thing. I have friends and family in their 40s and 50s still thinking about an ex from decades ago.

This is only true if you have a false notion that there is a single linear ordering of quality of a person. Different people have different needs and interests.

The seaweed is always greener in somebody else's lake.

Exactly. The "one that got away" trope refers to using 20/20 hindsight to punish onesself with unnecessary regret, rather than face the reality of life in the present and making the best of it, realizing that there were probably reasons that the past opportunities didn't work out.

Letting a catch “get away” is often because you screwed up and blew it. I disagree with your opinion that each time you blow a once in a lifetime opportunity you should just shrug and act like it was for valid “reasons.” Who your spouse is is a life-altering and life-defining decision. Mucking it up can lead to lifelong issues and regrets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Forget about what other posters wrote regarding "boundaries", "no contact" etc. This must be a weird American concept. In all European cultures that I know, there would be an assorted group of concerned relatives talking to your son about this.

It is the family's responsibility to point out negatives in order to help the adult child. Who else do it if not you?

I grew up in one of those European cultures. You know nothing about us. I have never had an assorted group of relatives talking to me about who I should marry. What kind of third-world shit is this?

I am the poster whom you have quoted. I myself come from Europe, with a cultural background in four European countries.

Name the countries.

I'm the PP you quoted. Austria, Hungary, Germany, France.

I’m American and my family absolutely would make comments about just getting married to your long-time girlfriend already. But there is zero expectation the person in question would actually do what we say.

My brother is old (late 30s) and waffling with his girlfriend and my father is the most vocal of all about him manning up and marrying her. But what 38 year old listens to mommy and daddy on this stuff? They’re adults for pete’s sake.