Ever leave the DMV and see successful people who aren't this T20 college obsessed and wonder?

[Anonymous]

Here’s the thing: every community needs doctors, lawyers, investment professionals, and small business folks. If you live in Des Moines, who is going to fill those roles? Probably not people from Harvard. Oftentimes, it’s people who went to State U. But guess what…doctors in Des Moines get paid a lot like those here. So, in some roles, you can live in a second- or third-tier city, do what you love without attending a Top 20 school, and make good money doing it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think you need to leave DMV to see this. We chose not to send our kids to private schools because we are avoiding this culture. They are at public schools.
But the other thing going on is the regional effect. If you know you want to live in a particular place—be it ohio, Arizona or New Jersey, yes you might as well go to one of the regional schools that has a tight alum network.
But going to a T20 will give you more flexibility. I don’t want my kids getting jobs in the region that I’m from—because I don’t think it is an economically viable region in another 20 years.

Same. It's an insane mind f*** these top private schools. Watched my sibling's children go through it up close. As adults maybe you have some perspective on all of it but you're going to put a kid in that environment and let them form who they are as humans? No.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why there are so many nasty posters here dumping on you, OP. I think the questions you are asking are interesting ones, and it is never too late to think about whether it is a good idea to buy into the striver mindset that’s so common around here (and in other cities with a lot of affluent, highly educated parents). My kids went/are going to W schools where there are plenty of intensely driven kids, and it can be hard to resist the pressure to jump right in to that rat race. I grew up in a MC, rural area with really terrible schools and struggled a lot my first year of college because I was so unprepared. I always wanted better for my kids. I have to work much harder at not contributing to the pressure cooker environment than my DH, who grew up in Bethesda. He absolutely felt the competition to always get the best grades and most impressive ECs was really damaging for him and his friends.

Are you equal dual income households, I’m guessing that elite education helped advance your career more than Ohio State?

I had similar college experience and a big goal is to prepare my kids over the 12 years of schooling they have with me, so those 4 years of college are not shocking.

Most MC kids id they don’t stretch, they won’t be enjoying beach house in OCNJ or getting into Medical school.

Not sure exactly what you meant with your first question, but we are a dual income family, though my DH makes several times what I do. We did both attend somewhat elite schools—top 20ish SLACs and UVA law, and for many years, I absolutely credited our career success in significant part to our colleges and law school. But now that my older kids have graduated, I’ve really begun to rethink that. Their friends who went to UMD, Pitt, and GW (all great schools, I’m well aware) are doing just as well, or in some cases better, than their friends who went to Ivies or other top 20 schools. I really have come to completely understand that if you are smart, have good social skills, and are willing to work hard at a marketable major, virtually any school will give you the tools you need to be successful.

I don’t regret sending my kids to our Bethesda public, as they have been very well prepared for college and life in general. But I’m really glad that my DH worked hard to keep them from loading up on multiple ridiculously stressful APs every semester and otherwise following the very intense path some of their peers did.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, OP should have started this thread in the private schools forum and lamented the culture of the Big 3. By posting it here, all she has done is expose her bubble. What's she been describing isn't unusual AT ALL in the DMV. My kids went to highly regarded public schools here, and they and their friends weren't obsessing over the top 20. Not even a little bit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why there are so many nasty posters here dumping on you, OP. I think the questions you are asking are interesting ones, and it is never too late to think about whether it is a good idea to buy into the striver mindset that’s so common around here (and in other cities with a lot of affluent, highly educated parents). My kids went/are going to W schools where there are plenty of intensely driven kids, and it can be hard to resist the pressure to jump right in to that rat race. I grew up in a MC, rural area with really terrible schools and struggled a lot my first year of college because I was so unprepared. I always wanted better for my kids. I have to work much harder at not contributing to the pressure cooker environment than my DH, who grew up in Bethesda. He absolutely felt the competition to always get the best grades and most impressive ECs was really damaging for him and his friends.

Are you equal dual income households, I’m guessing that elite education helped advance your career more than Ohio State?

I had similar college experience and a big goal is to prepare my kids over the 12 years of schooling they have with me, so those 4 years of college are not shocking.

Most MC kids id they don’t stretch, they won’t be enjoying beach house in OCNJ or getting into Medical school.

Not sure exactly what you meant with your first question, but we are a dual income family, though my DH makes several times what I do. We did both attend somewhat elite schools—top 20ish SLACs and UVA law, and for many years, I absolutely credited our career success in significant part to our colleges and law school. But now that my older kids have graduated, I’ve really begun to rethink that. Their friends who went to UMD, Pitt, and GW (all great schools, I’m well aware) are doing just as well, or in some cases better, than their friends who went to Ivies or other top 20 schools. I really have come to completely understand that if you are smart, have good social skills, and are willing to work hard at a marketable major, virtually any school will give you the tools you need to be successful.

I don’t regret sending my kids to our Bethesda public, as they have been very well prepared for college and life in general. But I’m really glad that my DH worked hard to keep them from loading up on multiple ridiculously stressful APs every semester and otherwise following the very intense path some of their peers did.

As I actually expected, your pressure cooker DH makes SEVERAL TIMES WHAT YOU MAKE. His career success is partly from his schools, but probably also from an upbringing and awareness of navigating his career that came from growing up in Bethesda with UMC parents.

Then you are looking at the outcomes for your kids friends who went to "lesser" schools but grew up going to a W school and likely have UMC parents like you DH?

Hmm, so all I see is that the key to success is to grow up with UMC parents, not really where you go to college. And to that I agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I grew up on one of the nicest South Jersey shore towns, probably very close to where you are spending the summer, and I still have family there. I know exactly the kind of people you see around you, and here’s the thing: your sample is skewed. There are rich people everywhere and who send their kids to every school, and what you’re seeing are the rich people from Philly who went to and are sending their kids to Big Five schools. Not everyone who goes to those schools ends up as rich as the ones you are seeing. Not everyone from Philly has a house at the shore either.

There are plenty of rich people in the DC area who didn’t go to top 20 colleges either.

+1

I grew up near there and there were parents obsessed with T20 schools back in the 80s. Granted it was much easier to get it back then, but it was a given that some kids were going to attend certain schools. We had a bunch head to Ivy League schools.

Many of my NY/Boston friends have an even more intense attitude to college.

The DC area is just like other affluent areas around the US.

I’m the poster who is calling the OP out on this, and I agree with you. I just wanted to add that, while there are plenty of big Catholic families in the Philly area who are not obsessed with the Ivies, it’s only because they don’t have to be. They’re rich and connected and their kids are going to be fine going to a Big Five school. They will be taken care of.

Beach houses in towns like Avalon and Stone Harbor go for $2 million to $10 million plus. They’re much more expensive than the Delaware and Maryland beaches. People own them as second homes, and many are not rented out. These are seriously rich people.

So much for OP’s “regular world.”

OP here. I'm not in Avalon or Stone Harbor but am in OCNJ. Sure, there is money here but you are taking "Jersey Shore" and immediately assuming I mean the wealthiest shores towns in NJ.

Also, i said it above but will reiterate, some of these families I am speaking of come from money but most do not. Some are Catholic but some are not.
Believe what you wish. I am not creating a narrative out of thin air to stir the pot.
There are many kids who achieve first-generation success (as measured by a high level job, high quality of life) without having attended one of the top 50 universities.
I know this runs contrary to the DCUM narrative. But it should make us all feel BETTER! Not worse. Our kids (if they work hard) will be OKAY regardless of where they attend college. I know most of us know this (in theory) but the stress to
achieve admission at one school or another is high around the DMV. At the Big3 (which I mentioned because its my world here and a unique world at that) it can be stifling.

This is fascinating to me that you didn't kind of already know all of this. That you really thought the only way to "a good life" was Big3/Top 20. I grew up in a second-tier working class city and stumbled my way into an Ivy somehow with zero foresight or planning or involvement from my parents. I have a good career. My spouse went to an okay (at best) college and is wildly successful. So many people where I grew up lead very happy and productive lives and are incredibly connected to their extended family and communities. I am in touch with a wide network of people from my Ivy 30 years later and plenty of people are really just average. It's not some golden ticket to "the good life". I think getting a college degree as a baseline is pretty important to get access to a lot of types of jobs starting out. After that? So many other variables at play. It's really not worth gunning for with intensity.

I'm the same as you, though my career is pretty lame (Fed lawyer). What did your spouse do, sales?

People I grew up with largely stayed in my working class/rural state, and none of them are renting houses in OCNJ FFS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here’s the thing: every community needs doctors, lawyers, investment professionals, and small business folks. If you live in Des Moines, who is going to fill those roles? Probably not people from Harvard. Oftentimes, it’s people who went to State U. But guess what…doctors in Des Moines get paid a lot like those here. So, in some roles, you can live in a second- or third-tier city, do what you love without attending a Top 20 school, and make good money doing it.

Sure, doctors make good money in rural towns , but good luck coasting through life and getting through med schools.

Lawyers don't make much money in rural towns, nor do investment professionals; maybe some small businesses can do well, until Wal-Mart comes to town and crushes you...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why there are so many nasty posters here dumping on you, OP. I think the questions you are asking are interesting ones, and it is never too late to think about whether it is a good idea to buy into the striver mindset that’s so common around here (and in other cities with a lot of affluent, highly educated parents). My kids went/are going to W schools where there are plenty of intensely driven kids, and it can be hard to resist the pressure to jump right in to that rat race. I grew up in a MC, rural area with really terrible schools and struggled a lot my first year of college because I was so unprepared. I always wanted better for my kids. I have to work much harder at not contributing to the pressure cooker environment than my DH, who grew up in Bethesda. He absolutely felt the competition to always get the best grades and most impressive ECs was really damaging for him and his friends.

Are you equal dual income households, I’m guessing that elite education helped advance your career more than Ohio State?

I had similar college experience and a big goal is to prepare my kids over the 12 years of schooling they have with me, so those 4 years of college are not shocking.

Most MC kids id they don’t stretch, they won’t be enjoying beach house in OCNJ or getting into Medical school.

Not sure exactly what you meant with your first question, but we are a dual income family, though my DH makes several times what I do. We did both attend somewhat elite schools—top 20ish SLACs and UVA law, and for many years, I absolutely credited our career success in significant part to our colleges and law school. But now that my older kids have graduated, I’ve really begun to rethink that. Their friends who went to UMD, Pitt, and GW (all great schools, I’m well aware) are doing just as well, or in some cases better, than their friends who went to Ivies or other top 20 schools. I really have come to completely understand that if you are smart, have good social skills, and are willing to work hard at a marketable major, virtually any school will give you the tools you need to be successful.

I don’t regret sending my kids to our Bethesda public, as they have been very well prepared for college and life in general. But I’m really glad that my DH worked hard to keep them from loading up on multiple ridiculously stressful APs every semester and otherwise following the very intense path some of their peers did.

As I actually expected, your pressure cooker DH makes SEVERAL TIMES WHAT YOU MAKE. His career success is partly from his schools, but probably also from an upbringing and awareness of navigating his career that came from growing up in Bethesda with UMC parents.

Then you are looking at the outcomes for your kids friends who went to "lesser" schools but grew up going to a W school and likely have UMC parents like you DH?

Hmm, so all I see is that the key to success is to grow up with UMC parents, not really where you go to college. And to that I agree.

Interestingly enough, a lot of my kids’ friends did not grow up in affluent families. They participated in a number of sports and some of their friends lived a good distance out from Bethesda. All of their friends who have done well did have highly educated parents though, including a number with teacher parents.

I certainly agree that the wealthier your family, the less likely you are to need elite schools and college connections to end up wealthy yourself. However, I still am glad OP has asked the questions she did, as the vast majority of people posting on the DCUM college forum are themselves wealthy, and many have not even stopped to think about whether placing their kids in these pressure-cooker environments and gunning for top schools is a worthwhile thing to do. It’s people like OP and the rest of us here who have the power to change the culture of these schools and parent communities for the better.

[Anonymous]

This thread was started by a rich kid at the beach that was tired of sitting in the sand. You all bit and bit hard. I applaud them, they are mocking the life their parents live and force upon them. In some ways it might be a cry for help but no way the OP was a mature adult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'll give you another story.

I grew up solidly middle class. My parents were lower-middle class. When my sibling and I graduated from T10 universities, the entire trajectory of our family changed for the better. We are now solidly upper/upper-middle class, in extremely well-paying, "prestigious", creative white collar jobs, and I'm 100% positive that my sibling and I were only able to achieve our present stature because of where we went to school.

Some of us don't have the privilege of going to a no-name school and coasting off of our parents' connections and networks (or institutional knowledge).

This is the exact reason top schools are seeking first Gen and URM. Those are the kids that studies show benefit most from an Ivy (or the like) education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up near Villanova and had an idyllic childhood without the obsession of DC, so know exactly what you're talking about. My husband grew up here, went to Big 3 and an Ivy League school. I begged for years to move to PA where we could live normally, but he would not consider it. For him, it's top 20 for our kids or they have failed. He actually said once, something along the lines of: "that way they never have to be embarrassed about telling anybody where they went to college. They can always hold their head high." I let him know that I have never once felt embarrassed about where I went and did he not realize that I am not remotely impressed by where he went either (I'm actually the main bread winner). It's insane. I hear you.

FWIW, there are a number of T20 alum in this bracket who cleave onto their BAs as they feel they have nothing left to brandish - they are average professionals making far less than their parents (in proportion to current costs for housing, etc) while working more hours to do it. I've now started replying when getting the shade about attending a school they've "never heard about" - "well, either my life has turned out spectacularly or yours hasn't given that we are now in same milieu."

[Anonymous]

I never wanted to raise my children in this area, for many of the reasons you mention, OP. But I did, and I regret it. (For what it's worth, one child went to a top 25 school, one to a top 10 and I have one more to go).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - I am not Catholic but went to a different Catholic school than the ones you listed. The network was amazing, the community was amazing. I am successful and not because I came from parents who were doctors. I received a great education and was able to choose my path forward.

I’d love to know what school you went to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I never wanted to raise my children in this area, for many of the reasons you mention, OP. But I did, and I regret it. (For what it's worth, one child went to a top 25 school, one to a top 10 and I have one more to go).

Hahahahaahahahaha. "I hate the stress and pressure of this area but my kids go to T20s"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know why there are so many nasty posters here dumping on you, OP. I think the questions you are asking are interesting ones, and it is never too late to think about whether it is a good idea to buy into the striver mindset that’s so common around here (and in other cities with a lot of affluent, highly educated parents). My kids went/are going to W schools where there are plenty of intensely driven kids, and it can be hard to resist the pressure to jump right in to that rat race. I grew up in a MC, rural area with really terrible schools and struggled a lot my first year of college because I was so unprepared. I always wanted better for my kids. I have to work much harder at not contributing to the pressure cooker environment than my DH, who grew up in Bethesda. He absolutely felt the competition to always get the best grades and most impressive ECs was really damaging for him and his friends.

Are you equal dual income households, I’m guessing that elite education helped advance your career more than Ohio State?

I had similar college experience and a big goal is to prepare my kids over the 12 years of schooling they have with me, so those 4 years of college are not shocking.

Most MC kids id they don’t stretch, they won’t be enjoying beach house in OCNJ or getting into Medical school.

Not sure exactly what you meant with your first question, but we are a dual income family, though my DH makes several times what I do. We did both attend somewhat elite schools—top 20ish SLACs and UVA law, and for many years, I absolutely credited our career success in significant part to our colleges and law school. But now that my older kids have graduated, I’ve really begun to rethink that. Their friends who went to UMD, Pitt, and GW (all great schools, I’m well aware) are doing just as well, or in some cases better, than their friends who went to Ivies or other top 20 schools. I really have come to completely understand that if you are smart, have good social skills, and are willing to work hard at a marketable major, virtually any school will give you the tools you need to be successful.

I don’t regret sending my kids to our Bethesda public, as they have been very well prepared for college and life in general. But I’m really glad that my DH worked hard to keep them from loading up on multiple ridiculously stressful APs every semester and otherwise following the very intense path some of their peers did.

As I actually expected, your pressure cooker DH makes SEVERAL TIMES WHAT YOU MAKE. His career success is partly from his schools, but probably also from an upbringing and awareness of navigating his career that came from growing up in Bethesda with UMC parents.

Then you are looking at the outcomes for your kids friends who went to "lesser" schools but grew up going to a W school and likely have UMC parents like you DH?

Hmm, so all I see is that the key to success is to grow up with UMC parents, not really where you go to college. And to that I agree.

Interestingly enough, a lot of my kids’ friends did not grow up in affluent families. They participated in a number of sports and some of their friends lived a good distance out from Bethesda. All of their friends who have done well did have highly educated parents though, including a number with teacher parents.

I certainly agree that the wealthier your family, the less likely you are to need elite schools and college connections to end up wealthy yourself. However, I still am glad OP has asked the questions she did, as the vast majority of people posting on the DCUM college forum are themselves wealthy, and many have not even stopped to think about whether placing their kids in these pressure-cooker environments and gunning for top schools is a worthwhile thing to do. It’s people like OP and the rest of us here who have the power to change the culture of these schools and parent communities for the better.

That's simple. Why would you need to stop and think about whether a HYPS degree is worth it? Of course it is, even if it's too "stressful" or "too much of a pressure cooker" (whatever the hell that means) for your kid. Nothing worth doing is easy.