Resentful, bitter young adult child (newly graduated)

[Anonymous]

I’m gonna be the fly in the ointment here and say maybe the therapist is not so terrible.

You describe your kid as being prone to high emotions and empathetic and “dramatic”. While you are more black and white and “let’s just fix it.”

When people, especially artists, feel things very deeply, and those feelings are dismissed or not treated seriously by other people (their family), it can be very wounding.

My parents also hate a “victim mentality.” But it means they downplayed and did not take seriously actual bad things that happened to me. “Oh you are so dramatic”
They would try to talk me out of my emotions, and get frustrated if I would not quickly be returned to even Keel.

The result is that I stopped talking to them about what was really going on with me. They really were not parents for me other than providing me with things and experiences. I was kind of emotionally on my own. They sent me to camps and supported my hobbies. It’s easy to do that, you just write a check. But in terms of being able to sit with me and listen to what I had to say and be truly empathetic… That just did not exist. I was constantly being told that I was feeling too much, I was feeling the wrong things, or that they were something sort of wrong with me for the way I was. I think that’s what your kid means if she says she feels like she was born into the “wrong family.”

Honestly I would just stop thinking about your kids career path and having thoughts about it (You can set boundaries like you know you have to move out of my house, I won’t financially support you, whatever without being judge mental about your kids choices) and focus on supporting your kid emotionally, Which would mean acting in different ways than you have up until now. Rather than just blaming the therapist, maybe consider the possibility that someone outside of your relationship see something true about your interactions. Your kid is expressing anger and disappointment and rather than being annoyed at this, you should be grateful that she’s trying to have a relationship with you. Because I can tell you at this point I would not even attempt this with my parents, because I know they would not take anything I said seriously and not seriously consider the possibility that they really hurt me when I was young because that is just too painful for them. A lot of times artists are willing to face pain in ways that other people are not. They use it to make beautiful things.

[Anonymous]

Pp from above here is a useful link that describes what I am talking about
https://www.gottman.com/blog/emotion-coaching-and-the-highly-sensitive-child/

[Anonymous]

Awful therapist. She probably needs meds. I’d be worried about mental illness here. She needs to be asked if she’s had suicidal ideation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m gonna be the fly in the ointment here and say maybe the therapist is not so terrible.

You describe your kid as being prone to high emotions and empathetic and “dramatic”. While you are more black and white and “let’s just fix it.”

When people, especially artists, feel things very deeply, and those feelings are dismissed or not treated seriously by other people (their family), it can be very wounding.

My parents also hate a “victim mentality.” But it means they downplayed and did not take seriously actual bad things that happened to me. “Oh you are so dramatic”
They would try to talk me out of my emotions, and get frustrated if I would not quickly be returned to even Keel.

The result is that I stopped talking to them about what was really going on with me. They really were not parents for me other than providing me with things and experiences. I was kind of emotionally on my own. They sent me to camps and supported my hobbies. It’s easy to do that, you just write a check. But in terms of being able to sit with me and listen to what I had to say and be truly empathetic… That just did not exist. I was constantly being told that I was feeling too much, I was feeling the wrong things, or that they were something sort of wrong with me for the way I was. I think that’s what your kid means if she says she feels like she was born into the “wrong family.”

Honestly I would just stop thinking about your kids career path and having thoughts about it (You can set boundaries like you know you have to move out of my house, I won’t financially support you, whatever without being judge mental about your kids choices) and focus on supporting your kid emotionally, Which would mean acting in different ways than you have up until now. Rather than just blaming the therapist, maybe consider the possibility that someone outside of your relationship see something true about your interactions. Your kid is expressing anger and disappointment and rather than being annoyed at this, you should be grateful that she’s trying to have a relationship with you. Because I can tell you at this point I would not even attempt this with my parents, because I know they would not take anything I said seriously and not seriously consider the possibility that they really hurt me when I was young because that is just too painful for them. A lot of times artists are willing to face pain in ways that other people are not. They use it to make beautiful things.

This! You may not be capable of giving her the emotional support she needs and that's OK, but it will lead to a more distant relationship. Blaming her for everything and writing her off as an eccentric overly emotional brat will not help. There is a middle ground. I think the nature of this post is off. It paints OP as such a great mother and her daughter as such a jerk. Maybe she is that bad. Who knows? In that case I would get expert help to manage things. I don't think having a bunch of people on the internet tell you she is awful and spoiled and self-centered and narcissistic will help you have a healthy relationship with her and promote her eventual independence and well being. I also think people are so quick to want to cut off the one place she feels supported and safe-therapy. it would be very rare for a therapist to brainwash someone. Most likely a lot is coming out and she is making choices the therapist would not support like blaming you for everything. That said, if your kid is struggling, you don't kick them, tell them to get over it and stop being a victim and then show them the door. If she wants to do a session with you and the therapist I would do it, but I would not impose yourself and ask for permission to speak to the therapist as someone suggested. It makes it seem like you want to control things and make her out to be the bad guy. Let her have her safe place to sort things out and work on not letting her push your buttons. You are still the parent. When she was a toddler, did you get upset everytime she told you she hated you or you were a bad mommy? Do you think she actually meant it? She is going through growing pains and taking it out on you. Not OK, but not worthy of getting so upset. She was robbed of some crucial development thanks to the pandemic. Give her some grace to grow up.

[Anonymous]

So both the therapist and your adult child are wrong and you did everything right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all. I encouraged her to post her art and she did sell a couple pieces to friends if friends type. She set up at an outdoor market and was convinced that she'd sell 1,000 in art in one day. Sadly (not surprisingly) she did not sell one piece. She is getting ready to move out in Jan Feb. I have offered to help her with security and move. But she's on her own for the rent and all other expenses. I'm still paying her car insurance. But we told her last month that she has to get her own policy Dec 1st. Her car which we bought of course when she was a senior in high school (basic Toyota, new) will be signed over to her name when she takes insurance. I also encouraged her to take art lessons and we were going to gift her money for bday and Xmas for art lessons. But she used the money to buy other things.

This is her first week at her first real job. On her first day she called me over lunch complaining how exhausted she was. It had only been 4 hours. She's also disappointed in her salary BC she's only making 45k and in her mind she should be making 60k straight out of college. Whatever...

Poor kid. I can totally understand how disappointing that is - it feels like not only a rejection of your work, but also of you personally. She took a huge risk and probably feels very vulnerable. I remember when I was building my business I went through the same thing - hundreds of hours of putting my work out there with almost no return. It’s awful.

She might enjoy the book “Ignore Everybody: and 39 other keys to creativity”. It helped me a lot.

I’m sorry, I’m just not seeing “poor kid” in this. We have all been there, starting out in jobs where we aren’t making much, we have to live at home, and our brilliance and talent is unappreciated. Come on. This kid sounds entitled as hell. She’s had a good childhood with a supportive parent (parents?) who is now being blamed for this kid’s failure to launch. It’s the whole victim mentality nowadays. Yes, starting out is tough and being the most Junior person in an office isn’t fun, but this kid needs to grow up and stop acting like a child. It sounds to me like Mom did her best and is still doing so by trying to accommodate the whims of this kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all. I encouraged her to post her art and she did sell a couple pieces to friends if friends type. She set up at an outdoor market and was convinced that she'd sell 1,000 in art in one day. Sadly (not surprisingly) she did not sell one piece. She is getting ready to move out in Jan Feb. I have offered to help her with security and move. But she's on her own for the rent and all other expenses. I'm still paying her car insurance. But we told her last month that she has to get her own policy Dec 1st. Her car which we bought of course when she was a senior in high school (basic Toyota, new) will be signed over to her name when she takes insurance. I also encouraged her to take art lessons and we were going to gift her money for bday and Xmas for art lessons. But she used the money to buy other things.

This is her first week at her first real job. On her first day she called me over lunch complaining how exhausted she was. It had only been 4 hours. She's also disappointed in her salary BC she's only making 45k and in her mind she should be making 60k straight out of college. Whatever...

Poor kid. I can totally understand how disappointing that is - it feels like not only a rejection of your work, but also of you personally. She took a huge risk and probably feels very vulnerable. I remember when I was building my business I went through the same thing - hundreds of hours of putting my work out there with almost no return. It’s awful.

She might enjoy the book “Ignore Everybody: and 39 other keys to creativity”. It helped me a lot.

I’m sorry, I’m just not seeing “poor kid” in this. We have all been there, starting out in jobs where we aren’t making much, we have to live at home, and our brilliance and talent is unappreciated. Come on. This kid sounds entitled as hell. She’s had a good childhood with a supportive parent (parents?) who is now being blamed for this kid’s failure to launch. It’s the whole victim mentality nowadays. Yes, starting out is tough and being the most Junior person in an office isn’t fun, but this kid needs to grow up and stop acting like a child. It sounds to me like Mom did her best and is still doing so by trying to accommodate the whims of this kid.

You are hearing one side-OP. We can all write stories to make ourselves sound great and the other persons awful. You do understand OP is also making herself out to be the victim-victim of self-absorbed child. The truth is somewhere between their stories. Somehow OP's daughter and therapist are villains and OP is the hero. She may just be a good writer...of fiction...or not. There is no way for us to know. OP herself said she tends to be black and white. This certainly is...daughter-bad...OP good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m gonna be the fly in the ointment here and say maybe the therapist is not so terrible.

You describe your kid as being prone to high emotions and empathetic and “dramatic”. While you are more black and white and “let’s just fix it.”

When people, especially artists, feel things very deeply, and those feelings are dismissed or not treated seriously by other people (their family), it can be very wounding.

My parents also hate a “victim mentality.” But it means they downplayed and did not take seriously actual bad things that happened to me. “Oh you are so dramatic”
They would try to talk me out of my emotions, and get frustrated if I would not quickly be returned to even Keel.

The result is that I stopped talking to them about what was really going on with me. They really were not parents for me other than providing me with things and experiences. I was kind of emotionally on my own. They sent me to camps and supported my hobbies. It’s easy to do that, you just write a check. But in terms of being able to sit with me and listen to what I had to say and be truly empathetic… That just did not exist. I was constantly being told that I was feeling too much, I was feeling the wrong things, or that they were something sort of wrong with me for the way I was. I think that’s what your kid means if she says she feels like she was born into the “wrong family.”

Honestly I would just stop thinking about your kids career path and having thoughts about it (You can set boundaries like you know you have to move out of my house, I won’t financially support you, whatever without being judge mental about your kids choices) and focus on supporting your kid emotionally, Which would mean acting in different ways than you have up until now. Rather than just blaming the therapist, maybe consider the possibility that someone outside of your relationship see something true about your interactions. Your kid is expressing anger and disappointment and rather than being annoyed at this, you should be grateful that she’s trying to have a relationship with you. Because I can tell you at this point I would not even attempt this with my parents, because I know they would not take anything I said seriously and not seriously consider the possibility that they really hurt me when I was young because that is just too painful for them. A lot of times artists are willing to face pain in ways that other people are not. They use it to make beautiful things.

This! You may not be capable of giving her the emotional support she needs and that's OK, but it will lead to a more distant relationship. Blaming her for everything and writing her off as an eccentric overly emotional brat will not help. There is a middle ground. I think the nature of this post is off. It paints OP as such a great mother and her daughter as such a jerk. Maybe she is that bad. Who knows? In that case I would get expert help to manage things. I don't think having a bunch of people on the internet tell you she is awful and spoiled and self-centered and narcissistic will help you have a healthy relationship with her and promote her eventual independence and well being. I also think people are so quick to want to cut off the one place she feels supported and safe-therapy. it would be very rare for a therapist to brainwash someone. Most likely a lot is coming out and she is making choices the therapist would not support like blaming you for everything. That said, if your kid is struggling, you don't kick them, tell them to get over it and stop being a victim and then show them the door. If she wants to do a session with you and the therapist I would do it, but I would not impose yourself and ask for permission to speak to the therapist as someone suggested. It makes it seem like you want to control things and make her out to be the bad guy. Let her have her safe place to sort things out and work on not letting her push your buttons. You are still the parent. When she was a toddler, did you get upset everytime she told you she hated you or you were a bad mommy? Do you think she actually meant it? She is going through growing pains and taking it out on you. Not OK, but not worthy of getting so upset. She was robbed of some crucial development thanks to the pandemic. Give her some grace to grow up.

I agree about finding compromise and avoiding rigid judgmental positions.

Life will knock a lot of the unrealistic expectations out of OP’s DD. She will grow up with or without OP. But it will be better for both OP and DD to find middle ground and to build personal bridges to where both are now. You can both learn from each other. OP you do sound like you were loved your DD in your way. Now you need to find new ways that both maintain adult boundaries and show respect for her different personality and needs.

Good luck OP. It ain’t easy raising highly Creative DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all. I encouraged her to post her art and she did sell a couple pieces to friends if friends type. She set up at an outdoor market and was convinced that she'd sell 1,000 in art in one day. Sadly (not surprisingly) she did not sell one piece. She is getting ready to move out in Jan Feb. I have offered to help her with security and move. But she's on her own for the rent and all other expenses. I'm still paying her car insurance. But we told her last month that she has to get her own policy Dec 1st. Her car which we bought of course when she was a senior in high school (basic Toyota, new) will be signed over to her name when she takes insurance. I also encouraged her to take art lessons and we were going to gift her money for bday and Xmas for art lessons. But she used the money to buy other things.

This is her first week at her first real job. On her first day she called me over lunch complaining how exhausted she was. It had only been 4 hours. She's also disappointed in her salary BC she's only making 45k and in her mind she should be making 60k straight out of college. Whatever...

You’re definitely not an Asian mom. Point out to your daughter how dumb it is to vilify capitalism and yet expect people to pay money for her artwork. If she’s genuine, she’ll survive by bartering and living off the grid. Your daughter is not just spoiled but a phoney who is deluded.

[Anonymous]

This is me and my 20 year old dad. Just add a lot more metal illnesses for dad and way more imagined abuse I allegedly bestowed upon her. Two therapists and everything is my fault too. Apparently I said once I’ll give you something to hurt over, but never touched her, and that is the equivalent of actual physical abuse. No mention to anyone about her physically attacking me for real on two occasions one last Christmas and once as a teen. Except I can’t say anything as she is extremely unstable. Dh and I pay for everything, even her own place.

[Anonymous]

^^ 20 year old DD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is me and my 20 year old dad. Just add a lot more metal illnesses for dad and way more imagined abuse I allegedly bestowed upon her. Two therapists and everything is my fault too. Apparently I said once I’ll give you something to hurt over, but never touched her, and that is the equivalent of actual physical abuse. No mention to anyone about her physically attacking me for real on two occasions one last Christmas and once as a teen. Except I can’t say anything as she is extremely unstable. Dh and I pay for everything, even her own place.

OP here. I have no idea who wrote the above quote. Just didn't want anyone to think it was me the OP writing above. You gave shared a lot of insightful things for me. I appreciate it. Greatly. I never meant to paint myself as a victim and her and therapist bad. As I pointed out I've made mistakes and her feelings are valid and not for me to diminish. Thank-you for your help. I do still feel like I am dealing with a somewhat entitled young adult who is not ready to adult. I do feel that depression pandemic social isolation is at play. I was talking with her this morning and she told me she is scared to get out on her own and that I want her to grow up too fast. But she said she also wants to get out and be on her own again. Conflicting emotions. I told her that although she'll be on her own for bills I will assist her with $$ to pay for therapy. I think it is important for her to continue therapy.but I have no problem her laying her own living expenses etc when she moves out All these things I originally shared with you here I did not share with her. I know some of you think I am a toxic parent and that's fine BC you only heard one side. I.am not perfect but I do live her and want her to be a productive young adult independent of her parents house. There is nothing wrong with that. Thanks to all again for your advice and support.

[Anonymous]

You’re definitely not an Asian mom. Point out to your daughter how dumb it is to vilify capitalism and yet expect people to pay money for her artwork. If she’s genuine, she’ll survive by bartering and living off the grid. Your daughter is not just spoiled but a phoney who is deluded.

OP here. Lol I am actually half Asian (south Asian not Chinese). But raised in different countries. Global nomad if there is truly such a thing. But south Asians have that rigid standard of things. I wouldn't have dared say the types of things to my parents that my daughter says to me.

[Anonymous]

OP That is a mature post. But I just want you to consider that even though you are the older adult and your daughter is just a young woman, she may know some things that you do not and you could learn from her. You maybe could learn about being more empathetic and accepting people as they are and learning to talk to people in ways that don’t seem to discount their emotional reality. You could stop trying to “fix” things in other words and just listen nonjudgmentally and be there for her In what is really one of the most stressful part of a persons life, their transition into independent adulthood.
You guys have enough of a connection that she does talk to you to a certain extent and the question is would you be willing to change in ways that would make the two of you closer. This is a growth opportunity for you too. You say you are a black and white person but you know the world actually is full of grays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is me and my 20 year old dad. Just add a lot more metal illnesses for dad and way more imagined abuse I allegedly bestowed upon her. Two therapists and everything is my fault too. Apparently I said once I’ll give you something to hurt over, but never touched her, and that is the equivalent of actual physical abuse. No mention to anyone about her physically attacking me for real on two occasions one last Christmas and once as a teen. Except I can’t say anything as she is extremely unstable. Dh and I pay for everything, even her own place.

OP here. I have no idea who wrote the above quote. Just didn't want anyone to think it was me the OP writing above. You gave shared a lot of insightful things for me. I appreciate it. Greatly. I never meant to paint myself as a victim and her and therapist bad. As I pointed out I've made mistakes and her feelings are valid and not for me to diminish. Thank-you for your help. I do still feel like I am dealing with a somewhat entitled young adult who is not ready to adult. I do feel that depression pandemic social isolation is at play. I was talking with her this morning and she told me she is scared to get out on her own and that I want her to grow up too fast. But she said she also wants to get out and be on her own again. Conflicting emotions. I told her that although she'll be on her own for bills I will assist her with $$ to pay for therapy. I think it is important for her to continue therapy.but I have no problem her laying her own living expenses etc when she moves out All these things I originally shared with you here I did not share with her. I know some of you think I am a toxic parent and that's fine BC you only heard one side. I.am not perfect but I do live her and want her to be a productive young adult independent of her parents house. There is nothing wrong with that. Thanks to all again for your advice and support.

I think it's good you are willing to pay for therapy and you support it. Sounds like you are gently helping her move toward independence. I don't think you are toxic. I think some advice on here is toxic and people are quick to make your adult child out to be awful. I think it's good she feels comfortable sharing with you. I also think she she is just a little less mature in part due to the pandemic. A lot of people are finding their kids did not progress maturity wise during lockdown. She sounds like a teen who has very mixed emotions toward you-confides in you, yet wants to dump you, wants independence, yet scares. It's not abnormal for a late teen or even probably someone in their early 20s. Add the pandemic stress and her own wiring and it's a lot to process. Hopefully you both will find better ways to connect with eachother. It is clear you care, but even the title reflects some bias and not stepping back to get a full sense of the situation unless she is just really awful.