Incapable and Defensive Spouse

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm a previous pp with ADHD I am also a woman. Also highly intelligent, and working in a field that requires a high level of focus. I function okay at work, but it literally zaps all my energy and all my focus so that it's nearly impossible for me to get things done at home.

I am very fortunate that I have a spouse who doesn't expect me to be Susie Homemaker and is capable of other tasks. There's plenty I do around the house. Lists and reminders help. Groceries are a struggle for me even with a list.

But do you get nearly every item on the list wrong or botched up like OP’s wife does? Milk is a good example. The 2% has a different color label or cap compared to the skim. If you’re buying your milk at the same store week after week, you are going to notice the color of the cap. A two year old could figure out that one. You seem sincere; however, from OP’a description I’m not buying that his wife is an unfortunate victim of adhd, overwork, or an unsympathetic husband.

NP. I do get a lot wrong on the list. I have coping mechanisms and systems set up to help but it feels like once I fix one problem, a new one comes along. One time I went to the grocery with a list of 3 items, forgot the list existed, came out with a cart full and only one of the original 3 items. It’s embarrassing and overwhelming. I feel like a f up pretty often. I really do try though, and I keep on trying. The problem is, when you’re told on a regular basis that you suck, it’s hard to believe you’ll ever get things right, and it’s hard to put in the effort when you don’t get good results.

Part of the problem for me is that I’m tired of being assigned the tasks I suck at. Im so bad at paperwork and inventory management. I cannot keep track of how much cereal (I don’t eat) we have and if we need more. I can set up automatic delivery but if we get too much he complains too. It’s like he wants me to check and see if he has cereal before I go to the store and get more if he’s low, in addition to all the other things I need to attend to. He could let me know he’s low on cereal, but somehow that’s not a viable solution for him. He’d also rather nag me about doing the taxes than do them himself. He starts asking in February if I’ve done them yet and the answer is always, “If it’s important for them to be done this week, you’re welcome to do the task.” It stresses hi. Out that it’s not done ahead of time, but I get no support in doing it. He does very little at home, but complains about how I do it. I know I mess up a lot, but heaping more tasks and criticisms on me helps no one. We both work full time, and he works from home 2-3 days a week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Could you do these things and instead your DH will handle things he is good at (maybe entertaining the kids, working in the yard/house, planning a trip). Sounds like he is picking up things at the store but lacks attention to detail. Those details don’t resonate with him like they do for you.

NP here. Hahaha, are you an alien visiting this planet for the first time? I'd bet a million dollars OP's husband is not good at any of those things. Doing anything well requires attention to detail.

DP. You’re assuming OP’s spouse lacks attention to detail in ALL THE THINGS. It’s likely there are things the spouse cares about or is good at and is more detail-oriented when it comes to those particular things. Everyone has details they resonate with on some level. Some more than others, but nobody is completely lacks in that department altogether. Regarding those with less, it’s about identifying and playing up the strengths they DO have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course he’s going to get defensive. You describe him as “incapable” and there’s no way that doesn’t come through. Even if you’re just pointing out the mistakes he made (i.e. “you got regular coffee instead of decaf and nobody drinks decaf”) he picks up on your low opinion of him.

NP. So what’s the solution? (Similar things have happened in my house.)

If I don’t point out the difference between what I asked for and what he purchased, he won’t know to look for it next time. It’s not about blaming him for his past mistake, it’s just about preventing the same mistake going forward. But my spouse takes everything I say so negatively, like OP’s spouse. I’ve been reading about rejection sensitive dysphoria, which sometimes occurs with ADD. I think it may be that.

You don’t point out mistakes that have already been made. You set spouse up to succeed in the future. Next time you make a grocery list, you don’t write “coffee.” You write “Coffee - NO DECAF.”

And then what when they brings home decaf coffee anyway? At one point does OP get to stop managing their spouse like a five year old?

At this point, you go to the store yourself and stop doing something for them that you normally do. It’s really not that complex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - you're focused on minutiae

Post if you want for entertainment. But I hope there are more important things in life, for you, than this.

Np

Yeah! Right on! It’s so much fun to find out 10x a day and 70x a week you adult husband didn’t do something he agreed to do or half a$$ed it yet again on mowing the lawn, getting the XYZ from the store, keep the kid safe, locking the front door, paying a bill sent to him, remembering where to take a kid. Details schmetails. Never mind that verbal, written and digital reminders all fail time and time again. It’s not important to be able to rely on your spouse or the other parent of your children!

DP. Unless this is something out of the ordinary and the spouse hasn’t always been this way, your post is rather bombastic as you chose to get with and procreate with this person knowing who they were when you married them. Marriage doesn’t magically alter ones habits. If the writing was on the wall the entire time, you’re just as much to blame for marrying someone and expecting them to suddenly turn into something they’ve never been. Assuming no one forced your hand, you don’t get to act ignorant to your spouse’s shortcomings while not acknowledging that this is the bed you chose to lie in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm a previous pp with ADHD I am also a woman. Also highly intelligent, and working in a field that requires a high level of focus. I function okay at work, but it literally zaps all my energy and all my focus so that it's nearly impossible for me to get things done at home.

I am very fortunate that I have a spouse who doesn't expect me to be Susie Homemaker and is capable of other tasks. There's plenty I do around the house. Lists and reminders help. Groceries are a struggle for me even with a list.

But do you get nearly every item on the list wrong or botched up like OP’s wife does? Milk is a good example. The 2% has a different color label or cap compared to the skim. If you’re buying your milk at the same store week after week, you are going to notice the color of the cap. A two year old could figure out that one. You seem sincere; however, from OP’a description I’m not buying that his wife is an unfortunate victim of adhd, overwork, or an unsympathetic husband.

NP. I do get a lot wrong on the list. I have coping mechanisms and systems set up to help but it feels like once I fix one problem, a new one comes along. One time I went to the grocery with a list of 3 items, forgot the list existed, came out with a cart full and only one of the original 3 items. It’s embarrassing and overwhelming. I feel like a f up pretty often. I really do try though, and I keep on trying. The problem is, when you’re told on a regular basis that you suck, it’s hard to believe you’ll ever get things right, and it’s hard to put in the effort when you don’t get good results.

Part of the problem for me is that I’m tired of being assigned the tasks I suck at. Im so bad at paperwork and inventory management. I cannot keep track of how much cereal (I don’t eat) we have and if we need more. I can set up automatic delivery but if we get too much he complains too. It’s like he wants me to check and see if he has cereal before I go to the store and get more if he’s low, in addition to all the other things I need to attend to. He could let me know he’s low on cereal, but somehow that’s not a viable solution for him. He’d also rather nag me about doing the taxes than do them himself. He starts asking in February if I’ve done them yet and the answer is always, “If it’s important for them to be done this week, you’re welcome to do the task.” It stresses hi. Out that it’s not done ahead of time, but I get no support in doing it. He does very little at home, but complains about how I do it. I know I mess up a lot, but heaping more tasks and criticisms on me helps no one. We both work full time, and he works from home 2-3 days a week.

So I am a super detailed person married to an ADHD guy. First, I am laughing because I also had no idea about the milk cap thing and I am insanely detail oriented. But second, your husband just sounds like a jerk. I won’t pretend that I never get frustrated with my husband’s lack of attention to detail and I won’t pretend I never come down on him about screwing up details. But honestly, it is all pretty rare at this point. There is no way I would hound him to do all the paperwork. That is ridiculous. I do the paperwork and he does the laundry and other things. After 15 years of marriage, we have figured out how to play to each other’s strengths. And most of our comments to the other are just jokes because we both know exactly how things are and that we have a great life together even with our differences. You don’t deserve to be castigated for all this and you also shouldn’t have to handle everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like classic ADHD to me.

And the way I treat my son with ADHD is to praise the hell out of him when he gets it right. It is so much more effective than pointing out the mistakes. Trust me.

Or classic high functioning autism. Brain can’t handle more than one thing, doesn’t multitask unless vitally important and for external people (ie getting fired or job reputation).

Keep a log so you know how pervasive the pattern is.

If adhd meds can help, if aSD maybe an executive functioning coach or behavioral therapy. But early intervention is the only way to avoid bad habits and defensive attitudes. At age 40 it’s Unf pretty ingrained. He’s in over his head w adult responsibilities and is going to get nasty about it.

So why is it that the brain doesn't work with internal people?

Probably because they know the internal people will pick up the slack. Or because there won’t be any serious or extreme consequences and they know this - being aware of it can even occur subconsciously; it doesn’t have to be deliberate. The consequences for doing this to external people are a lot more serious, like losing their job. The reality is they’re a lot more easily replaceable. This isn’t the case with spouses or children - most spouses won’t divorce over this and it’s not like kids can just choose to fire their parents and replace them with someone more qualified.

Regarding internal people, there’s also an incentive to be had: if they don’t do it correctly, the other half typically picks up the slack in the moment and may even relieve them of the duty entirely to avoid the same thing happening in the future. If the ‘forgetful’ spouse is lazy and manipulative, they may be doing it on purpose in order to (hopefully, in their mind)) get out of doing it, knowing their spouse will give in and take over the task from now on. Unless they possess those traits though, it’s likely not intentional and they’re probably just as frustrated and feel defeated by their shortcomings, especially if the spouse is constantly berating them about it. There has to be a balance - if you’re overly persnickety and strict about the way something is done, you either have to do it yourself and compromise by having them take over one of the tasks you’re not as fussy about or learn to relax and accept that everyone does things differently.

“If you want something done right, do it yourself.” << There’s a lot of validity to this saying.

Np. With people you live with it’s a Repeat Game. Your 5-10 excuses start repeating. You get more questions. You get defensive since you’ve blown your cover. Then you really stop masking and trying to be an adult, and you let it all hang out. Even to your kids. Who start copying your rude behavior and bad habits.

At work, and w customer service calls to fix your messes, chances are they give you the benefit of the doubt. They don’t live with you and suffer from 24/7 mishaps like your parents, siblings, and spouse and kids do. Totally different story. Split personality different.

Just keep bottling up the mistakes, fall out and anxiety and let it out at home on your spouse. Or live alone and swing by when you’re in a good mood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think people who are like this are doing it on purpose. It takes more thought and effort to buy the wrong kind of milk (assuming the right kind was available). It’s her (childish, stupid) way of saying “f you, I don’t want to shop for groceries.”

Fortunately the grocery one is easily solved. Do the order online and get her to pick it up. Then figure out how to rebalance something else to make up for the ordering time.

Everyone has forgotten an Amazon return. They’re a PITA. If you shop at Whole Foods, you can do them there now which is handy.

+1. And also, for Amazon returns, you can call them and see if they will still take the return after the deadline. Sometimes you can get all or part of your money back, or do a swap for another size at no charge. It’s pretty easy to make the call and see what they say.

[Anonymous]

OP is your wife good at anything other than her job? Your examples are all about shopping. Maybe she shouldn’t have anything to do with shopping? Can you outsource?

I complain on this board all the time about my similar sounding husband. What has saved my sanity is allowing him to take complete charge of things he is good at and outsourcing the rest that I don’t want to do myself.

Maybe you are trying to force her into a preconceived role she just doesn’t fit into and overlooking the ways she does contribute? Wishful thinking on your behalf perhaps, only you know.

[Anonymous]

Key question.

What does she provide besides grief and a paycheck?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The OP and most responders are overlooking the very important point that this ADHD-sounding spouse probably married you partly for this exact reason, that you are a counterweight for their weakness in this area. Try not to go to extremes of this situation and recognize that this is something your spouse values about you; think about the other things you value besides this area of incompetence.

This.

And I will add, she sure did not marry you for your empathy, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP is your wife good at anything other than her job? Your examples are all about shopping. Maybe she shouldn’t have anything to do with shopping? Can you outsource?

I complain on this board all the time about my similar sounding husband. What has saved my sanity is allowing him to take complete charge of things he is good at and outsourcing the rest that I don’t want to do myself.

Maybe you are trying to force her into a preconceived role she just doesn’t fit into and overlooking the ways she does contribute? Wishful thinking on your behalf perhaps, only you know.

This is what reasonable adults do, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think people who are like this are doing it on purpose. It takes more thought and effort to buy the wrong kind of milk (assuming the right kind was available). It’s her (childish, stupid) way of saying “f you, I don’t want to shop for groceries.”

Fortunately the grocery one is easily solved. Do the order online and get her to pick it up. Then figure out how to rebalance something else to make up for the ordering time.

Everyone has forgotten an Amazon return. They’re a PITA. If you shop at Whole Foods, you can do them there now which is handy.

+1. And also, for Amazon returns, you can call them and see if they will still take the return after the deadline. Sometimes you can get all or part of your money back, or do a swap for another size at no charge. It’s pretty easy to make the call and see what they say.

I have also had this experience, if it is an item they are still selling there is often flexibility.

Set up a standing grocery order to be picked up at WF and when you or DW go to pick it up, you can do the Amazon return. 2 birds, 1 trip. Getting groceries packed for pickup is free, no reason not to do so unless you are unwilling to give up your grievance, OP.

Skim milk vs. 2%, come on, dude! And return it to the store, using gas and requiring the store to toss it? Like rubbing a puppy's nose in the puddle. Really think about the kind of person you want to be and the character you want to display to the world, esp your children. Is being rigid and sanctimonious the kind of parent and spouse you want to be? Shaming vs. solution oriented? The coffee is an issue, but the milk and pasta are just silly. You may not be 100% neurotypical yourself with this degree of OCD about slight differences in milk products, OP. Consider that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm a previous pp with ADHD I am also a woman. Also highly intelligent, and working in a field that requires a high level of focus. I function okay at work, but it literally zaps all my energy and all my focus so that it's nearly impossible for me to get things done at home.

I am very fortunate that I have a spouse who doesn't expect me to be Susie Homemaker and is capable of other tasks. There's plenty I do around the house. Lists and reminders help. Groceries are a struggle for me even with a list.

But do you get nearly every item on the list wrong or botched up like OP’s wife does? Milk is a good example. The 2% has a different color label or cap compared to the skim. If you’re buying your milk at the same store week after week, you are going to notice the color of the cap. A two year old could figure out that one. You seem sincere; however, from OP’a description I’m not buying that his wife is an unfortunate victim of adhd, overwork, or an unsympathetic husband.

NP. I do get a lot wrong on the list. I have coping mechanisms and systems set up to help but it feels like once I fix one problem, a new one comes along. One time I went to the grocery with a list of 3 items, forgot the list existed, came out with a cart full and only one of the original 3 items. It’s embarrassing and overwhelming. I feel like a f up pretty often. I really do try though, and I keep on trying. The problem is, when you’re told on a regular basis that you suck, it’s hard to believe you’ll ever get things right, and it’s hard to put in the effort when you don’t get good results.

Part of the problem for me is that I’m tired of being assigned the tasks I suck at. Im so bad at paperwork and inventory management. I cannot keep track of how much cereal (I don’t eat) we have and if we need more. I can set up automatic delivery but if we get too much he complains too. It’s like he wants me to check and see if he has cereal before I go to the store and get more if he’s low, in addition to all the other things I need to attend to. He could let me know he’s low on cereal, but somehow that’s not a viable solution for him. He’d also rather nag me about doing the taxes than do them himself. He starts asking in February if I’ve done them yet and the answer is always, “If it’s important for them to be done this week, you’re welcome to do the task.” It stresses hi. Out that it’s not done ahead of time, but I get no support in doing it. He does very little at home, but complains about how I do it. I know I mess up a lot, but heaping more tasks and criticisms on me helps no one. We both work full time, and he works from home 2-3 days a week.

Definitely get a tax preparer. It hung over us every year until we finally did this. Only costs a few hundred dollars and worth every penny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think people who are like this are doing it on purpose. It takes more thought and effort to buy the wrong kind of milk (assuming the right kind was available). It’s her (childish, stupid) way of saying “f you, I don’t want to shop for groceries.”

Fortunately the grocery one is easily solved. Do the order online and get her to pick it up. Then figure out how to rebalance something else to make up for the ordering time.

Everyone has forgotten an Amazon return. They’re a PITA. If you shop at Whole Foods, you can do them there now which is handy.

+1. And also, for Amazon returns, you can call them and see if they will still take the return after the deadline. Sometimes you can get all or part of your money back, or do a swap for another size at no charge. It’s pretty easy to make the call and see what they say.

I have also had this experience, if it is an item they are still selling there is often flexibility.

Set up a standing grocery order to be picked up at WF and when you or DW go to pick it up, you can do the Amazon return. 2 birds, 1 trip. Getting groceries packed for pickup is free, no reason not to do so unless you are unwilling to give up your grievance, OP.

Skim milk vs. 2%, come on, dude! And return it to the store, using gas and requiring the store to toss it? Like rubbing a puppy's nose in the puddle. Really think about the kind of person you want to be and the character you want to display to the world, esp your children. Is being rigid and sanctimonious the kind of parent and spouse you want to be? Shaming vs. solution oriented? The coffee is an issue, but the milk and pasta are just silly. You may not be 100% neurotypical yourself with this degree of OCD about slight differences in milk products, OP. Consider that.

+1 returning the milk is silly and punitive. Just deal with the "wrong milk". I wouldn't have even mentioned it, just specified the next time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP is your wife good at anything other than her job? Your examples are all about shopping. Maybe she shouldn’t have anything to do with shopping? Can you outsource?

I complain on this board all the time about my similar sounding husband. What has saved my sanity is allowing him to take complete charge of things he is good at and outsourcing the rest that I don’t want to do myself.

Maybe you are trying to force her into a preconceived role she just doesn’t fit into and overlooking the ways she does contribute? Wishful thinking on your behalf perhaps, only you know.

This is what reasonable adults do, OP.

Normal therapies and back/forth conversations or talking about feelings doesn’t work with people in any spectrum disorder (bipolar, add, asd).