Feeling hopeless about my marriage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still don't understand your problem. Other people manage. Many manage without a spouse present. Without help. What are these big problems of yours?

Are you asking for a list of my tasks? It's not as though I am the first person, woman/wife in particular, to have this issue with their spouse.

But hey, you win, I admit to not being able manage doing 95% of the household, childcare, pet care, scheduling, mental, emotional, and physical needs of our family while also working. I've spent 8+ years expressing this, to no avail. I've reached the near-end point of being able to tolerate this dynamic, and have been looking for solutions so that we don't split up. I am the one initiating these conversations about our relationship, reading and making suggestions, trying to find therapy -- yet other things on my plate. DH does not seem as open to these things as I had hoped and so, as my OP describes, I feel hopeless that our marriage will last.

Hi OP,
Your situation sounds very similar to mine. It is indeed exhausting to be on a different wavelength than a DH. I have offered separation for some tired, as I’m tired of arguments and the lack of mutual understanding.

[Anonymous]

* for some time

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:thinks I need to work on improving myself and getting to my “full potential”

What is this part about, do you think, OP?

Do you think he is having an affair or is considering one? Does he want you to be more like an AP?

Sounds like he is pretty checked out on family life. I was once like you, including thinking ADD was the answer. The thing is, labels only help if they apply to you and you are motivated to find solutions or make changes. In this case, your DH seems to have indicated clearly that he is not. If that does not change, I think you accept the status quo or make plans to leave. Unfortunately, we cannot change other people. It is entirely possible that he has low self esteem and issues re: behaviors or coping skills he has used all his life re: possible ADD. If that is the case, he may come around and become more open to change. I wish you and your family well and hope you find peace.

If outsourcing more is possible, it is never a bad idea.

It has entered my mind that he has interest in someone else, but my gut tells me no. I think the 'full potential' bit has good intentions -- like that he wants me to feel personally fulfilled in multiple elements of life as he perceives himself to be -- career, physical health, relationships (though he can't seem to see ours is struggling), etc. He just doesn't see the disconnect that part of the reason he is so fulfilled is because he spends/is able to spend so much time focusing on himself, while I rarely have time to do so. Have you ever heard of the House of Equilibrium? It's this goal-setting thing where you try to find balance across multiple facets of life. He was rather proud of his when he laid it out and it really irked me because my "House" would be wildly unbalanced. That's kind of the "full potential" thing, from his perspective, I think.

I agree with you about the labels and do wonder if I am setting myself up for a major disappointment if/when he is diagnosed that he does nothing about it and we are back to square one.

I am looking into more childcare outsourcing but so far haven't found anything/one who will fit our needs.

My parents know a couple where the “absent minded professor dad”, “crazy son 2”, and “no emotion son 1” carried on.

The SAHM did everything for 40+ years. But she also made sure they lived in a tiny house without many things. The kids did very little outside of school, maybe piano lessons tops. They took the same two trips every year, camping and to visit one side of family. She lived very frugally, especially as the absentminded professor “retired” at age 50 and she never worked. She inherited some money and bought a larger house once the youngest started college, however he now lives at home, has a bunch of degrees but cannot hold down a job.

She is currently a shell of a person and lost all conversational skills. Absentminded professor does nothing but surf the internet all day. Son 2 is nocturnal living at home. Son 1 is divorced, no custody. She never got any of them help, if anything she enabled them with excuses.

If you go the “sacrifice everything route” and SAHM then you have to keep your sanity with individual therapy, effective coping mechanisms, and several friend and support groups. And make sure your kids don’t have the same thing. If they do, early intervention is key.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ADD isn’t just a chores division thing. It’s a frame of mind, i.e. he just doesn’t understand why his way of doing things is exhausting to you. The lack of commitment thing is key. As the responsible partner, that lack of commitment keeps you from being able to plan something. There’s also the fear that the ADD spouse will not follow through even when you get a verbal commitment. When you have kids and/or pets, you know they will pay the price for your being so ‘selfish’ as to think you can have some time to pursue something for yourself. I put selfish in quotes because, of course it’s NOT selfish at all, it’s just with an ADD spouse, it feels selfish to even try.

I get the same promises, and he either forgets (despite constantly asking for the dates for his calendar, etc) or simply ignores the commitments with the sheepish “I forgot” look, with you left wondering if he really did forget....

I think it's exhausting for both sides. I'm the (male) ADHD partner. I am certainly aware that my wife would like me to be more on top of chores. I'm messy and disorganized. And if I get drawn into something, even if it's something that I recognize to be pretty trivial (like posting on a message board) it's frustrating to be brought out of that with a request.

The flip side, however, is that from my perspective, my life is now a never-ending list of things my spouse wants me to do and/or feels I do incorrectly. I had never heard of Rejection Sensitivity Dysphoria before reading the link earlier in this thread, but it appears to describe me pretty well. And what happens is with jobs and kids, my spouse is (understandably) asking more of me while also expecting me to ask less of her with regard to physical touch or just prioritizing our relationship. So it's exhausting. Because it feels like I'm constantly failing someone who doesn't seem to like me much anymore and who doesn't give me credit for what I have done.

I imagine that I fit a lot of the male patterns here when I try to improve. I try, but I grow disillusioned quickly as further rejections or criticisms pile up. Eventually, it feels like I'm on a months or years-long audition to make my spouse give a crap about me, and I inevitably lose the motivation to keep trying. And I don't know the answer. I'm not suggesting the OP is wrong to feel frustrated and let down. ADHD sucks. Medication helps a bit. Therapy helps a bit. But it's always a struggle. Every day.

My husband said a lot of this. And it baffled me until we did therapy and he expressed that he saw parenting and household stuff as a thing he was doing for me, not as something we both have equal responsibility for. That was why he expected gratitude but didn't display it, and why he didn't feel an intrinsic sense of responsibility. He is also very sensitive to criticism, so it was very difficult for him to say to himself, "I messed up, I'm doing my best to make it up every day because I want to be a good parent and partner," so he'd move between self-loathing and "I didn't do anything wrong." It was hard for me to want to be physically intimate with someone who wanted me to comfort and reassure him and minimize my own needs, sexual and otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It cracks me up how bent out of shape people are getting about tidying and helping ice the Frozen cupcakes for DD's 2nd birthday party or clean up the pan from cooking the chicken nuggets that everyone rushed home from work to cook the kids for dinner. People are getting in fights and making themselves miserable over the silliest stuff!

Is that all it is? Perhaps it's not noticing the dog has been outside for over an hour in the middle of winter because you forgot he was with you outside (dog is fine thank God)

Or perhaps it's never opening your mail so your kid nearly loses her health insurance because you missed all the notices your company sent you about a mandatory audit?

Or just maybe it's because you kept forgetting to pay the tax bill and cost your family over 5 grand in fees before your wife got sick of it and took over.

That's just a sample of ADD hell

So the dog is fine, and the health insurance is fine. You owed some money on the tax bill. Doesn't seem like hell. And certainly doesn't seem worth creating constant stress and anger around the house, unless of course you like being the martyr and having the constant drama. I mean, literally put a reminder in your outlook to pay bills and taxes and have a 30 second discussion, and it will be fine. Or spend all your time feeling like a martyr who lives in hell. Lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It cracks me up how bent out of shape people are getting about tidying and helping ice the Frozen cupcakes for DD's 2nd birthday party or clean up the pan from cooking the chicken nuggets that everyone rushed home from work to cook the kids for dinner. People are getting in fights and making themselves miserable over the silliest stuff!

Wrong.

Never being able to rely on your spouse for anything large or small to be done or done right is a terrible way to live.

And once babies, toddlers or young children are in the picture, it’s terrifying. Over the last four years we’ve had:
1) ASD grandpa almost back over the 3 yo who followed him outside to repark his van for no reason (wife stopped it);
2) a heavy door blow shut on the 2 yo fingers in the hinges right in front of the whole aspergers family (wife half stopped the door by racing across house, no permanent nerve damage);
3) 3 yo walk into a pool and go to the bottom while guests screamed at adhd/ASD father to get her (he had no reaction, just sat there, the wife had to put baby down in grass, run and jump in);
4) 6 yo put hanging from 12 foot wall and ASD dad thought the kid could do a pull-up and check it out up there (zero judgement, kid fell straight down skimming bare his chin and fracturing two leg bones);
5) swimming in ocean and ASD dad thought it’d be cool to go out by the snorkelers in the danger zone rip tide with the 7 yo (took other set of grandparents to rescue them both, again zero judgment or situational awareness).

They need a simple, simple, simple life with minimal demands and responsibilities outside of their dogmatic interest(s).
Leaving them alone to their own devices is still a constant mess if living in same house or anything entangled. They certainly do prefer to be left alone all the time though.

This is not at all what the OP was talking about. If all this is true and accurate, which I doubt, then these people are beyond ADD and seem like jerks. Why the wife married into a family like this is beyond me. Maybe she has some sort of savior or martyr complex. Certainly seems like a lot of "wife saved" and "wife stopped" going on in that narrative. But again, OP is not at all talking about stuff like that.

[Anonymous]

DW once suggested "maybe we should go to family therapy." I said "absolutely, book it. I would love to have someone validate my point of view once I present my case. Because I'd bet dollars to doughnut that between being the sole income earner and being home every day before 4:30 pm to be a supporting father and family man....anyone would validate I'm doing a pretty decent job."

Topic hasn't come up again. All remains well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It cracks me up how bent out of shape people are getting about tidying and helping ice the Frozen cupcakes for DD's 2nd birthday party or clean up the pan from cooking the chicken nuggets that everyone rushed home from work to cook the kids for dinner. People are getting in fights and making themselves miserable over the silliest stuff!

Is that all it is? Perhaps it's not noticing the dog has been outside for over an hour in the middle of winter because you forgot he was with you outside (dog is fine thank God)

Or perhaps it's never opening your mail so your kid nearly loses her health insurance because you missed all the notices your company sent you about a mandatory audit?

Or just maybe it's because you kept forgetting to pay the tax bill and cost your family over 5 grand in fees before your wife got sick of it and took over.

That's just a sample of ADD hell

So the dog is fine, and the health insurance is fine. You owed some money on the tax bill. Doesn't seem like hell. And certainly doesn't seem worth creating constant stress and anger around the house, unless of course you like being the martyr and having the constant drama. I mean, literally put a reminder in your outlook to pay bills and taxes and have a 30 second discussion, and it will be fine. Or spend all your time feeling like a martyr who lives in hell. Lol.

For now fine. When it rinses and repeats like Groundhog Day, it is exhausting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It cracks me up how bent out of shape people are getting about tidying and helping ice the Frozen cupcakes for DD's 2nd birthday party or clean up the pan from cooking the chicken nuggets that everyone rushed home from work to cook the kids for dinner. People are getting in fights and making themselves miserable over the silliest stuff!

Is that all it is? Perhaps it's not noticing the dog has been outside for over an hour in the middle of winter because you forgot he was with you outside (dog is fine thank God)

Or perhaps it's never opening your mail so your kid nearly loses her health insurance because you missed all the notices your company sent you about a mandatory audit?

Or just maybe it's because you kept forgetting to pay the tax bill and cost your family over 5 grand in fees before your wife got sick of it and took over.

That's just a sample of ADD hell

So the dog is fine, and the health insurance is fine. You owed some money on the tax bill. Doesn't seem like hell. And certainly doesn't seem worth creating constant stress and anger around the house, unless of course you like being the martyr and having the constant drama. I mean, literally put a reminder in your outlook to pay bills and taxes and have a 30 second discussion, and it will be fine. Or spend all your time feeling like a martyr who lives in hell. Lol.

Over 90% of unmedicated ADD marriages split as one partner gets exhausted. If you call martyrdom making sure your kids are adults and can’t be affected anymore, then I’ll fall on that sword. Now youngest is 18 and i no longer have to play the game

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, why are you hiring help? What exactly is the problem?

Just doing more than your share --- that's not enough information. It's not believable, not believable that would tear apart a marriage.

Not sure why it's not believable.

I do have some help -- we have a reliable babysitter we use and have used for date nights, overnights, weekend trips. I have been looking for an after school sitter for over a month to no avail (kids are currently in an after school extended day program). We have cleaners who come every two weeks. We have a dog sitter who takes our dogs to and from doggie daycare every day so they get worn out.

What other help can/should I get? An au pair seems excessive -- my understanding is you need to provide 30-40 hours for them to work and the kids are both in school full time. A nanny (part-time?) and then that person would do errands and things around the house while the kids are in school?

OP as someone who has after school care (5-8 pm usually), please know that this is a very difficult time slot to keep someone long term and reliably. It might be better for you to hire a full time nanny housekeeper who has both duties - housekeeping during school hours and nannying after school. Or you could find someone who could nanny share with you so the hire has full time hours and is more willing to stay. Also, evening hours are very expensive, I spend well north of what a daytime nanny makes per hour. HTH

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It cracks me up how bent out of shape people are getting about tidying and helping ice the Frozen cupcakes for DD's 2nd birthday party or clean up the pan from cooking the chicken nuggets that everyone rushed home from work to cook the kids for dinner. People are getting in fights and making themselves miserable over the silliest stuff!

Is that all it is? Perhaps it's not noticing the dog has been outside for over an hour in the middle of winter because you forgot he was with you outside (dog is fine thank God)

Or perhaps it's never opening your mail so your kid nearly loses her health insurance because you missed all the notices your company sent you about a mandatory audit?

Or just maybe it's because you kept forgetting to pay the tax bill and cost your family over 5 grand in fees before your wife got sick of it and took over.

That's just a sample of ADD hell

So the dog is fine, and the health insurance is fine. You owed some money on the tax bill. Doesn't seem like hell. And certainly doesn't seem worth creating constant stress and anger around the house, unless of course you like being the martyr and having the constant drama. I mean, literally put a reminder in your outlook to pay bills and taxes and have a 30 second discussion, and it will be fine. Or spend all your time feeling like a martyr who lives in hell. Lol.

Over 90% of unmedicated ADD marriages split as one partner gets exhausted. If you call martyrdom making sure your kids are adults and can’t be affected anymore, then I’ll fall on that sword. Now youngest is 18 and i no longer have to play the game

Yeah, we are going to need a citation for that one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

My husband said a lot of this. And it baffled me until we did therapy and he expressed that he saw parenting and household stuff as a thing he was doing for me, not as something we both have equal responsibility for. That was why he expected gratitude but didn't display it, and why he didn't feel an intrinsic sense of responsibility. He is also very sensitive to criticism, so it was very difficult for him to say to himself, "I messed up, I'm doing my best to make it up every day because I want to be a good parent and partner," so he'd move between self-loathing and "I didn't do anything wrong." It was hard for me to want to be physically intimate with someone who wanted me to comfort and reassure him and minimize my own needs, sexual and otherwise.

My own feeling is that it's a bit of both. In truth, neither my wife nor I are particularly diligent about household chores. I am less sensitive to mess, but my wife also has a propensity toward clutter. There are tasks that are clearly mine. I make the meals (although we now often just do Yummly for kids' meals instead of a full-blown family dinner). I do the dishes (but do let them pile up too much). I do much of the shopping, although my wife has started ordering delivery. If an errand requires a special trip, I'm the one who goes out. I get the kids ready to go to school in the morning. I'm also most likely to take the kids to a doctor's or hair dresser's appointment or a friend's birthday party, though she is more likely to handle the emotional labor of setting those things up. My wife does most of the laundry and handles most of the finances (though I have offered to have a sit down to see if we could transition that to a process where we're both more involved in that). We have a maid who now comes weekly as opposed to bi-weekly, which helps. And I'm aware of the fact that even though it may feel to me like I'm contributing, I'm probably discounting how much falls to her.

But there are other things that seem more to do with how my wife wants her life to be. She has taken up gardening and taking care of houseplants. She deserves a hobby to be sure, but it means that even when we're both home on the weekends, I'm generally the guy "watching" the kids. Too often, I do that while watching stupid YouTube videos or playing crosswords or something. So I know my wife gets frustrated that I'm "checked out" of that duty. But I'm also letting her have an entire Saturday afternoon to putz around with her plants. So the criticism is grating on me. I do take it too personally. I try not to. I've put a lot of work in both individual and couples therapy into that. But it's hard in the same way the losing a bunch of weight can be hard. Sticking to the process day after day can be hard, particularly when you have a long way to go. And, at least for me, it's harder when you feel that your own concerns and disappointments in the way the relationship works are "off the table" until some later, ill-defined time.