Did your parents cheat? How did you feel about it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the expectation that parents should allow their children's needs to completely supersede their own is damaging.

Bullshit. Putting your kids needs before your own is called "being a parent" and "being an adult".

Also, if you are still eating and clothing yourself, your children's needs aren't completely superseding your own. Keeping your dick in your pants is only partially superseding your "needs."

And does cheating really qualify as a NEED. Some couples do need to get divorced. Some couples need to have open/non-traditional relationships. But I've yet to be convinced by a cheater who claimed that cheating was a necessity.

it's not a necessity, but it sure does make a difficult situation easier to bear. I put my childrens' need and desire for an intact family ahead of my desire to be authentic about my love and sex lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the expectation that parents should allow their children's needs to completely supersede their own is damaging.

Bullshit. Putting your kids needs before your own is called "being a parent" and "being an adult".

Doing it to your detriment is called being a martyr.

There is no "detriment" associated with NOT CHEATING so your response is irrelevant.

Spoken by a woman with a low sex drive who doesn't consider being sexually unsatisfied, chronically, as detrimental.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"It occurred to us, from observation and reasoning, that extramarital sex was not what really destroyed marriages, but rather the lies and deception that invariably accompanied it -- that was the culprit. So we decided to give ourselves permission to sleep with other partners if we wished -- as long as what we did was honest as well as private, and that neither of us exposed the family to scandal or disease. We had to be discreet and, if the word can be apt, honorable in our behavior, both to ourselves, to whomever else might be involved, and most of all, to the family. And for the most part, we were."

-- Ossie Davis

What a load of crap.

The idea of an open marriage full of wonder and free of hostility or jealousy is an absurd fantasy. If your spouse openly cheats on you, without "lies and deception", you will feel extreme anger, jealousy, and desire for revenge if you are a normal human being.

What is the point of such a "marriage" anyway? A loveless business partnership?

My husband has a low sex drive. He has two choices: allow our marriage to be open, or for us to divorce. We went to counseling for months, and that's what we and the counselor concluded. H feels sadness at some points that he's not enough for me, but doesn't feel anger or desire for revenge. I undersold my need for a strong sexual connection in marriage, and he oversold his drive. We love each other and have built a life together that we are interested in continuing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - I, too, was glad when my parents divorced. It was a relief from their constant fights and from always waiting for the other shoe to drop in the form of another mistress coming to light. It sounds as if you feel your mother deserved to be cheated on though, so that probably made your father's cheating easier for you.

Well, I wouldn't say deserved to be "cheated on" so much as deserved to be dumped...and yes, she very much deserved to be dumped. And her ongoing martydom and bitchiness are responsible for that fact that she remains alone and unhappy, while my father and the rest of us (with the exception of one sibling) have gone on to lead lives and seek happiness.

On the "cheating" vs. "dumping" - people lie to themselves; they say, over and over "it's not the sex, it's the lying". Bullshit. It's being rejected and left behind: it's the dumping. That's what hurts. That's where the heartbreak comes from (I have been dumped and I have even been cheated on once; I'm not talking out my ass here). People pretend it would have all been OK, if only the person got a divorce first: more bull shit. They would then protest just as vocerifously, "but you swore an OATH...you PROMISED to love me forever...you swore you wouldn't divorce"....just as loudly as they protest "you promosed to be sexually monogamous and faithful". This is one of the biggest pile of self-deception out there. No, they would not be happy - leaving is leaving and they would be just as heartbroken; nobody who has been dumped by a spouse stops and says "well, it's not so bad, they didn't cheat on me."

The same thing with children who feel abandoned by their parent: they feel abandoned when the parent leaves home, regardless of whether it's for an AP or just because they don't want to be married anymore. The children worry just as much that it's "their fault" whether or not there is an affair.

What cheating does is give the cheated on person a moral high ground of outrage, so they can be 100% victim. They don't have to look at their own behavior, or consider whether they in any way contributed to the demise of the relationship. Cheating is almost always about problems elsewhere in the relationship; it is not generally just about sex. Yes, often times the other problems are due to issues one partner or the other (or both) have, but it's not generally about either enough blowjobs (complete lack of sex is another matter) or about "inability to keep it in your pants". Those are both gross over simplifications which are actually more harmful, precisely because they are often a way to avoid addressing the real issues.

I'm not an advocate for cheating; I do not think it's a good way to get out of a dead relationship, nor is it a good basis on which to start a new one (as people have noted in the thread: the success rate for affairs which convert to marriages is terrible). I think cheating is a way of avoiding doing some of the hard, honest work that sometimes adults have to do.

My mother has a huge pile of issues; she is a deeply unhappy and frequently mean person. When I was a child she was incredibly emotionally abusive and nasty. I'm very surprised my father tolerated it for as long as he did. In my adult relationship with her, I've pounded home the message that, unless boundaries are respected, there will be no relationship. Only by constantly vigorously enforcing that limit has appropriate behavior been extracted. I wouldn't bother with this except that she is the only mother I have and I feel somewhat duty-bound to work at having a relationship. I absolutely recognize - as an adult - that despite her constant complaining about how bad a man - what character flaws and "weakness" my father had - that instead of his cheating and leaving representing weakness, they were really some signs of life - he finally had enough abuse and got up on his two feet and got the fuck out. He used cheating as a way to dynamite the relationship, which wasn't the mentally healthy mature way to handle it, but it was really just a way of leaving.

I understand why my mother has the issues she does; I'm sympathetic - she has some real challenges which are difficult. However, we all have challenges in life, shortcomings and things we don't like about ourselves. We all have to, as part of becoming healthy adults, come to terms with our own flaws and shortcomings and accept them - accept ourselves - and love ourselves. My mother isn't willing to grow up (and she's in her 70s now, so it's unlikely to happen ever); she wallows in self-loathing and self pity. Her emotional maturity is stuck somewhere in Middle School, and I think she still nurses wounds from back then. She has been this way for as long as I can remember. She is mean and nasty to other people, to tear them down, which is what she does to herself continually. This makes her a miserable person; there's no way my father would ever have gotten anywhere near her, except for the fact that he had some pretty bad issues himself (which he got into therapy for, post-divorce) when he met her. She also wasted no time getting pregnant (I haven't checked the actual dates, but I am pretty sure I'm a shotgun wedding baby) to cinch the deal. She does not love or like herself, and this makes it nearly impossible for anyone else to like or love her; yet, my father lasted for 3 kids and 12 years - when I looked back with adult eyes, I was like "WTF is wrong with you? Why didn't you GTFO a lot earlier?!?". My mother refuses to see her contributions to the issues though, and refuses to really make any changes - she remains bitter, angry and alone...I have one sibling who is the same. Framing it as all Daddy's fault for having a "Character Flaw" and "cheating" lets them continue to ignore that, even 35 years later - at the same time two siblings and Dad are all leading much happier and more fulfilling lives - they have to take some responsibility for their own happyness. Fuck 'em - they make their own pain and they drag it around with them everywhere. I personally avoid seeing them as much as possible, and while I do my familial duty, I will miss neither a moment when they are gone.

So yeah, that's what I hear when I hear people - particularly the people who weren't actually cheated on themselves - bleating about some cheating that happened years ago. If your ability to have adult relationships is fucked up because your parents had a terrible relationship, then it's your job to go to counseling and learn how to have happy adult relationships - not some shit to keep griping about that your parents did to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To the PP's if your father or mother cheated have you cheated? do you think it makes their kids more likely to cheat since they share usually same personality traits?

I have never cheated, but I do feel restless in a relationship, which I think is a personality trait. I think whether it increases or decreases the likelihood of cheating probably depends on how it played out. If it led to divorce and difficulties in your childhood, I would think it would decrease the likelihood of cheating. If one parent looked the other way and the cheating parent seemed happier for it, I would think it would increase the likelihood of cheating.

[Anonymous]

My dad cheated on my mother all the time growing up. He even gave her an STD. I hated it and it did affect my childhood because my parents fought a lot and one of my dad's mistresses started calling our house and cursing out anyone who picked up the phone. She even told my sister she was pregnant by him. Surprisingly my parents are still married.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:the expectation that parents should allow their children's needs to completely supersede their own is damaging.

Bullshit. Putting your kids needs before your own is called "being a parent" and "being an adult".

People can have affairs without neglecting their children.

I disagree, if you were not with your affair partner you would probably be with your family instead. Unless you are with your partner during normal working hours, you are taking time away from your children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You realize now as an adult that your father's cheating had nothing to do with his relationship with you, right?

That is horseshit.

Nope, it's not. I cheat and it has zero to do with my kids.

This isn't a unilateral decision. Your kids may decide otherwise.

[Anonymous]

My uncle left his wife for his mistress. It left his oldest son with soooo many issues. My uncle loves his son, but my cousin does not care at all about his father and regularly bad mouths him on facebook. They do not speak at all, even though my uncle has pleaded to have a relationship with him. My cousin has told me he will never forgive his father. His dad used to take him to various women's homes and then have sex with them. He was pretty blantant about it. My uncle was also a pilot so he was gone a lot.

My uncle is still married to his mistress but I think it put a stain on their relationship because he essentially lost his children for this woman. He constantly asks me to reach out to my cousin and convince him to talk to him, but I've already tried. It seems to be hard for him to accept that the ship may have sailed on him having any relationship with his son. He has a relationship with his daughter but it took a long time for her to come to accept him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP - I, too, was glad when my parents divorced. It was a relief from their constant fights and from always waiting for the other shoe to drop in the form of another mistress coming to light. It sounds as if you feel your mother deserved to be cheated on though, so that probably made your father's cheating easier for you.

Well, I wouldn't say deserved to be "cheated on" so much as deserved to be dumped...and yes, she very much deserved to be dumped. And her ongoing martydom and bitchiness are responsible for that fact that she remains alone and unhappy, while my father and the rest of us (with the exception of one sibling) have gone on to lead lives and seek happiness.

On the "cheating" vs. "dumping" - people lie to themselves; they say, over and over "it's not the sex, it's the lying". Bullshit. It's being rejected and left behind: it's the dumping. That's what hurts. That's where the heartbreak comes from (I have been dumped and I have even been cheated on once; I'm not talking out my ass here). People pretend it would have all been OK, if only the person got a divorce first: more bull shit. They would then protest just as vocerifously, "but you swore an OATH...you PROMISED to love me forever...you swore you wouldn't divorce"....just as loudly as they protest "you promosed to be sexually monogamous and faithful". This is one of the biggest pile of self-deception out there. No, they would not be happy - leaving is leaving and they would be just as heartbroken; nobody who has been dumped by a spouse stops and says "well, it's not so bad, they didn't cheat on me."

The same thing with children who feel abandoned by their parent: they feel abandoned when the parent leaves home, regardless of whether it's for an AP or just because they don't want to be married anymore. The children worry just as much that it's "their fault" whether or not there is an affair.

What cheating does is give the cheated on person a moral high ground of outrage, so they can be 100% victim. They don't have to look at their own behavior, or consider whether they in any way contributed to the demise of the relationship. Cheating is almost always about problems elsewhere in the relationship; it is not generally just about sex. Yes, often times the other problems are due to issues one partner or the other (or both) have, but it's not generally about either enough blowjobs (complete lack of sex is another matter) or about "inability to keep it in your pants". Those are both gross over simplifications which are actually more harmful, precisely because they are often a way to avoid addressing the real issues.

I'm not an advocate for cheating; I do not think it's a good way to get out of a dead relationship, nor is it a good basis on which to start a new one (as people have noted in the thread: the success rate for affairs which convert to marriages is terrible). I think cheating is a way of avoiding doing some of the hard, honest work that sometimes adults have to do.

My mother has a huge pile of issues; she is a deeply unhappy and frequently mean person. When I was a child she was incredibly emotionally abusive and nasty. I'm very surprised my father tolerated it for as long as he did. In my adult relationship with her, I've pounded home the message that, unless boundaries are respected, there will be no relationship. Only by constantly vigorously enforcing that limit has appropriate behavior been extracted. I wouldn't bother with this except that she is the only mother I have and I feel somewhat duty-bound to work at having a relationship. I absolutely recognize - as an adult - that despite her constant complaining about how bad a man - what character flaws and "weakness" my father had - that instead of his cheating and leaving representing weakness, they were really some signs of life - he finally had enough abuse and got up on his two feet and got the fuck out. He used cheating as a way to dynamite the relationship, which wasn't the mentally healthy mature way to handle it, but it was really just a way of leaving.

I understand why my mother has the issues she does; I'm sympathetic - she has some real challenges which are difficult. However, we all have challenges in life, shortcomings and things we don't like about ourselves. We all have to, as part of becoming healthy adults, come to terms with our own flaws and shortcomings and accept them - accept ourselves - and love ourselves. My mother isn't willing to grow up (and she's in her 70s now, so it's unlikely to happen ever); she wallows in self-loathing and self pity. Her emotional maturity is stuck somewhere in Middle School, and I think she still nurses wounds from back then. She has been this way for as long as I can remember. She is mean and nasty to other people, to tear them down, which is what she does to herself continually. This makes her a miserable person; there's no way my father would ever have gotten anywhere near her, except for the fact that he had some pretty bad issues himself (which he got into therapy for, post-divorce) when he met her. She also wasted no time getting pregnant (I haven't checked the actual dates, but I am pretty sure I'm a shotgun wedding baby) to cinch the deal. She does not love or like herself, and this makes it nearly impossible for anyone else to like or love her; yet, my father lasted for 3 kids and 12 years - when I looked back with adult eyes, I was like "WTF is wrong with you? Why didn't you GTFO a lot earlier?!?". My mother refuses to see her contributions to the issues though, and refuses to really make any changes - she remains bitter, angry and alone...I have one sibling who is the same. Framing it as all Daddy's fault for having a "Character Flaw" and "cheating" lets them continue to ignore that, even 35 years later - at the same time two siblings and Dad are all leading much happier and more fulfilling lives - they have to take some responsibility for their own happyness. Fuck 'em - they make their own pain and they drag it around with them everywhere. I personally avoid seeing them as much as possible, and while I do my familial duty, I will miss neither a moment when they are gone.

So yeah, that's what I hear when I hear people - particularly the people who weren't actually cheated on themselves - bleating about some cheating that happened years ago. If your ability to have adult relationships is fucked up because your parents had a terrible relationship, then it's your job to go to counseling and learn how to have happy adult relationships - not some shit to keep griping about that your parents did to you.

Well stated. Thank you

[Anonymous]

Agree with pp. OP, the reality is that parents male mistakes. They have insecurities and a dark side. They are human.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Eventually, Ossie and Ruby decided the open marriage was not for them because they found that they really fulfilled each other, but neither regretted trying it. In the end, it is about respect and realizing your partner is a different person with different needs and aspirations. It is about your partner and not about you. Your jealousy is your problem, not theirs. If you both agree that you can both have outside relationships, it is just not cheating. The cgeating comes in the lies and deception, not the outside sex act. There are as many flavored of marriage as there are ice cream. Grab a spoon and dig in, but don't expect your flavor to be my favorite not force me to eat it.

Bullshit. What your SPOUSE does sexually IS about you. It cannot fail to affect you emotionally and perhaps physically. The cheating most definitely comes from the sex act. You are completely deluded if you think you can redefine "marriage" in the terms you describe here. Whore it up all you want, but don't try to pretend it is a marriage, because it isn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no "detriment" associated with NOT CHEATING so your response is irrelevant.

Spoken by a woman with a low sex drive who doesn't consider being sexually unsatisfied, chronically, as detrimental.

So get yourself a vibrator and deal with your imaginary "detriment".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eventually, Ossie and Ruby decided the open marriage was not for them because they found that they really fulfilled each other, but neither regretted trying it. In the end, it is about respect and realizing your partner is a different person with different needs and aspirations. It is about your partner and not about you. Your jealousy is your problem, not theirs. If you both agree that you can both have outside relationships, it is just not cheating. The cgeating comes in the lies and deception, not the outside sex act. There are as many flavored of marriage as there are ice cream. Grab a spoon and dig in, but don't expect your flavor to be my favorite not force me to eat it.

Bullshit. What your SPOUSE does sexually IS about you. It cannot fail to affect you emotionally and perhaps physically. The cheating most definitely comes from the sex act. You are completely deluded if you think you can redefine "marriage" in the terms you describe here. Whore it up all you want, but don't try to pretend it is a marriage, because it isn't.

It's not your idea of marriage, but clearly it is some peoples. If they both agree and aren't bothering you, why are you so upset about that?

[Anonymous]

To PP at 9:27, I'm standing up and applauding your post, attitude, and perspective.