For those who want a Parent to move to an AL..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We should have sufficient funds to pay for round-the-clock aides in our own home, barring a severely debilitating condition that would make nursing home a better option.

If you need round the clock aids then you need a nursing home. It will be a side full time job for your adult kids to basically run a nursing home out of your house no matter how much funds you have. Nightmare!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hope to plan for it myself as my parents are doing now. They have a strong aversion to being any kind of burden on their kids, even have their funeral plan organized and paid for.

My remaining parent had this also (funeral paid for and plenty of funds) including LTC insurance and it was still a struggle to get her moved to assisted living when she needed it. (@88 yrs old) Parents don’t like change and will resist when they get very elderly no matter what they promise now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please remember this when it actually comes time. If I have learned anything in dealing with the elderly is that when they are young they swear they will be independent and not need help. But when the time comes, they definitely want help.

Things look very different when you actually need help.

Nope, our parents have always said they will not move from their houses. They will "age in place" with help. One lives in a hoarded house, one in a 6000 sq foot house. Both have lots of deferred maintenance. They call us when there is an emergency like they can't find their car or the remote won't work. It doesn't cause any resentment at all.

OK well see how you feel when they start falling, getting ambulances and need someone to drive to and from hospital, wait for them after surgeries, advocate for them in the ER where they will spend 6-8 hours waiting for "scans". and on and on.

True. And I did all this when they were already also in assisted living.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Buy a condo or rent an apartment when one level living is needed. Pay for cleaners and other help with tasks as needed.

Eventually, if this isn't enough, move to an assisted living that has varying level of support so both me and my spouse can be accommodated at the same place in the event that we have differing needs. This has worked well for older people that we know, and for their children.

Oh- also adding- that right now, the best thing I do is not accumulate junk. I clean our house out 2-3 times a year. Definitely not doing to my kids what my parents are doing to me and my siblings.

Actually the best thing you can do is to excercise everyday.

I disagree! My dad exercises every day, it makes him live longer but doesn’t make him an independent man, he keeps bugging me for stuff and his eyes are bad and what if he becomes blind but keeps living

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We recently moved (“forced” according to her) into AL (“beautiful prison”). It’s a fantastic place and yes my husband and I would move there. She has a lovely apartment, exercise class 3 days/week, bridge 3 days/week, daily happy hour (2 drink max), all meals (good but def not great food), on site nurse 8 am-10 pm, on site OT and PT, lectures by community college profs, etc etc.
She’s now been there 2 months, has made friends, but still thinks of it as prison. So be it. She is safe and well cared for.

She can think what she wants as long as she doesn’t bug her kids with her endless requests

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We recently moved (“forced” according to her) into AL (“beautiful prison”). It’s a fantastic place and yes my husband and I would move there. She has a lovely apartment, exercise class 3 days/week, bridge 3 days/week, daily happy hour (2 drink max), all meals (good but def not great food), on site nurse 8 am-10 pm, on site OT and PT, lectures by community college profs, etc etc.
She’s now been there 2 months, has made friends, but still thinks of it as prison. So be it. She is safe and well cared for.

These places are a form of a prison. People have to live by the rules, they are managed by the staff, have to deal with an assortment of people that they don't necessarily like, on a daily basis. In the facility near my mom, which is very expensive and highly regarded, they have to eat dinner communally. If they want to eat in their rooms they have to pay extra. I get this forces people to have human interaction, which can be good. But research shows that while the elderly (and all of us) need interaction, negative interaction does nothing to help and can make things worse.

What I have come to understand at a deep level is that end of life is rarely easy on the elderly or the people who care for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We recently moved (“forced” according to her) into AL (“beautiful prison”). It’s a fantastic place and yes my husband and I would move there. She has a lovely apartment, exercise class 3 days/week, bridge 3 days/week, daily happy hour (2 drink max), all meals (good but def not great food), on site nurse 8 am-10 pm, on site OT and PT, lectures by community college profs, etc etc.
She’s now been there 2 months, has made friends, but still thinks of it as prison. So be it. She is safe and well cared for.

These places are a form of a prison. People have to live by the rules, they are managed by the staff, have to deal with an assortment of people that they don't necessarily like, on a daily basis. In the facility near my mom, which is very expensive and highly regarded, they have to eat dinner communally. If they want to eat in their rooms they have to pay extra. I get this forces people to have human interaction, which can be good. But research shows that while the elderly (and all of us) need interaction, negative interaction does nothing to help and can make things worse.

What I have come to understand at a deep level is that end of life is rarely easy on the elderly or the people who care for them.

it's brain exercise having to navigate these social situations. My relatives who refused to move mostly rotted on the sofa and declined rapidly cognitively because they didn't try to use social skills with their kids and hired help. Most of their friends drifted away. Their homes eventually needed special locks if they were wanderers. Aging at home was more of a solitary confinement prison. I would not describe the ALs I visited as prison and in the case of Memory care, the locks were for safety. I have not heard of prisons with beautiful gardens and various social activities. Do you consider college a prison too?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please remember this when it actually comes time. If I have learned anything in dealing with the elderly is that when they are young they swear they will be independent and not need help. But when the time comes, they definitely want help.

Things look very different when you actually need help.

Nope, our parents have always said they will not move from their houses. They will "age in place" with help. One lives in a hoarded house, one in a 6000 sq foot house. Both have lots of deferred maintenance. They call us when there is an emergency like they can't find their car or the remote won't work. It doesn't cause any resentment at all.

OK well see how you feel when they start falling, getting ambulances and need someone to drive to and from hospital, wait for them after surgeries, advocate for them in the ER where they will spend 6-8 hours waiting for "scans". and on and on.

True. And I did all this when they were already also in assisted living.

Yes. This is something people don't understand. If the elderly person has family, the expectation is that they deal with all emergencies, etc. If they have no family, it is one of the reason that the elderly die quickly. If an emergency happens, the call and ambulance and the person is sent to the hospital. Then the hospital ships to a rehab facility. And if they haven't improved adequately, they are required by the state to keep them. When the hospital puts out notice that someone needs to go to rehab, the facilities look into their insurance and details to determine if they should take them. (Think clearing house for people deciding if they want to take a job or not.)

All to say, that your parent in assisted living doesn't get you off the hook for dealing with the medical issues that require care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We recently moved (“forced” according to her) into AL (“beautiful prison”). It’s a fantastic place and yes my husband and I would move there. She has a lovely apartment, exercise class 3 days/week, bridge 3 days/week, daily happy hour (2 drink max), all meals (good but def not great food), on site nurse 8 am-10 pm, on site OT and PT, lectures by community college profs, etc etc.
She’s now been there 2 months, has made friends, but still thinks of it as prison. So be it. She is safe and well cared for.

These places are a form of a prison. People have to live by the rules, they are managed by the staff, have to deal with an assortment of people that they don't necessarily like, on a daily basis. In the facility near my mom, which is very expensive and highly regarded, they have to eat dinner communally. If they want to eat in their rooms they have to pay extra. I get this forces people to have human interaction, which can be good. But research shows that while the elderly (and all of us) need interaction, negative interaction does nothing to help and can make things worse.

What I have come to understand at a deep level is that end of life is rarely easy on the elderly or the people who care for them.

it's brain exercise having to navigate these social situations. My relatives who refused to move mostly rotted on the sofa and declined rapidly cognitively because they didn't try to use social skills with their kids and hired help. Most of their friends drifted away. Their homes eventually needed special locks if they were wanderers. Aging at home was more of a solitary confinement prison. I would not describe the ALs I visited as prison and in the case of Memory care, the locks were for safety. I have not heard of prisons with beautiful gardens and various social activities. Do you consider college a prison too?

I can't believe you are comparing going to college to being forced into a nursing home against your will. That said, I don't disagree that rotting at home is a better solution, just that many people choose that because they want to maintain their "freedom."

What happens with some elderly, is they have an emergency and are taken to the hospital. Then they are discharged into rehab. And if they don't have people who can prove they are capable of taking care of the elderly person AND have a home that is set up to facilitate the person, then most states if not all, will not allow the patient to be discharged, forcing them into skilled nursing.

At the end of the day, there are very few good solutions for end of life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We recently moved (“forced” according to her) into AL (“beautiful prison”). It’s a fantastic place and yes my husband and I would move there. She has a lovely apartment, exercise class 3 days/week, bridge 3 days/week, daily happy hour (2 drink max), all meals (good but def not great food), on site nurse 8 am-10 pm, on site OT and PT, lectures by community college profs, etc etc.
She’s now been there 2 months, has made friends, but still thinks of it as prison. So be it. She is safe and well cared for.

These places are a form of a prison. People have to live by the rules, they are managed by the staff, have to deal with an assortment of people that they don't necessarily like, on a daily basis. In the facility near my mom, which is very expensive and highly regarded, they have to eat dinner communally. If they want to eat in their rooms they have to pay extra. I get this forces people to have human interaction, which can be good. But research shows that while the elderly (and all of us) need interaction, negative interaction does nothing to help and can make things worse.

What I have come to understand at a deep level is that end of life is rarely easy on the elderly or the people who care for them.

it's brain exercise having to navigate these social situations. My relatives who refused to move mostly rotted on the sofa and declined rapidly cognitively because they didn't try to use social skills with their kids and hired help. Most of their friends drifted away. Their homes eventually needed special locks if they were wanderers. Aging at home was more of a solitary confinement prison. I would not describe the ALs I visited as prison and in the case of Memory care, the locks were for safety. I have not heard of prisons with beautiful gardens and various social activities. Do you consider college a prison too?

I can't believe you are comparing going to college to being forced into a nursing home against your will. That said, I don't disagree that rotting at home is a better solution, just that many people choose that because they want to maintain their "freedom."

What happens with some elderly, is they have an emergency and are taken to the hospital. Then they are discharged into rehab. And if they don't have people who can prove they are capable of taking care of the elderly person AND have a home that is set up to facilitate the person, then most states if not all, will not allow the patient to be discharged, forcing them into skilled nursing.

At the end of the day, there are very few good solutions for end of life.

+1
And it doesn't help that personalities change. A parent who doesn't want to be a burden when they are clear-minded can turn into a fussy, needy parent who wants constant attention. Just the clear opposite from when they were actually your "parent". It can be difficult for the lonely parent and for the caregiver. We need to look more into not only directives that are DNR but not having such dependencies on pharmaceuticals. Comfort and passing of old age needs to be a thing again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We recently moved (“forced” according to her) into AL (“beautiful prison”). It’s a fantastic place and yes my husband and I would move there. She has a lovely apartment, exercise class 3 days/week, bridge 3 days/week, daily happy hour (2 drink max), all meals (good but def not great food), on site nurse 8 am-10 pm, on site OT and PT, lectures by community college profs, etc etc.
She’s now been there 2 months, has made friends, but still thinks of it as prison. So be it. She is safe and well cared for.

These places are a form of a prison. People have to live by the rules, they are managed by the staff, have to deal with an assortment of people that they don't necessarily like, on a daily basis. In the facility near my mom, which is very expensive and highly regarded, they have to eat dinner communally. If they want to eat in their rooms they have to pay extra. I get this forces people to have human interaction, which can be good. But research shows that while the elderly (and all of us) need interaction, negative interaction does nothing to help and can make things worse.

What I have come to understand at a deep level is that end of life is rarely easy on the elderly or the people who care for them.

it's brain exercise having to navigate these social situations. My relatives who refused to move mostly rotted on the sofa and declined rapidly cognitively because they didn't try to use social skills with their kids and hired help. Most of their friends drifted away. Their homes eventually needed special locks if they were wanderers. Aging at home was more of a solitary confinement prison. I would not describe the ALs I visited as prison and in the case of Memory care, the locks were for safety. I have not heard of prisons with beautiful gardens and various social activities. Do you consider college a prison too?

I can't believe you are comparing going to college to being forced into a nursing home against your will. That said, I don't disagree that rotting at home is a better solution, just that many people choose that because they want to maintain their "freedom."

What happens with some elderly, is they have an emergency and are taken to the hospital. Then they are discharged into rehab. And if they don't have people who can prove they are capable of taking care of the elderly person AND have a home that is set up to facilitate the person, then most states if not all, will not allow the patient to be discharged, forcing them into skilled nursing.

At the end of the day, there are very few good solutions for end of life.

+1
And it doesn't help that personalities change. A parent who doesn't want to be a burden when they are clear-minded can turn into a fussy, needy parent who wants constant attention. Just the clear opposite from when they were actually your "parent". It can be difficult for the lonely parent and for the caregiver. We need to look more into not only directives that are DNR but not having such dependencies on pharmaceuticals. Comfort and passing of old age needs to be a thing again.

This is so true. They swear they will never be a burden, but old age is hard and many become afraid and needy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We should have sufficient funds to pay for round-the-clock aides in our own home, barring a severely debilitating condition that would make nursing home a better option.

Don't kid yourself that this is easy on your kids-- who do you think will be hiring and monitoring those aides? BTDT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please remember this when it actually comes time. If I have learned anything in dealing with the elderly is that when they are young they swear they will be independent and not need help. But when the time comes, they definitely want help.

Things look very different when you actually need help.

Nope, our parents have always said they will not move from their houses. They will "age in place" with help. One lives in a hoarded house, one in a 6000 sq foot house. Both have lots of deferred maintenance. They call us when there is an emergency like they can't find their car or the remote won't work. It doesn't cause any resentment at all.

OK well see how you feel when they start falling, getting ambulances and need someone to drive to and from hospital, wait for them after surgeries, advocate for them in the ER where they will spend 6-8 hours waiting for "scans". and on and on.

True. And I did all this when they were already also in assisted living.

Yes. This is something people don't understand. If the elderly person has family, the expectation is that they deal with all emergencies, etc. If they have no family, it is one of the reason that the elderly die quickly. If an emergency happens, the call and ambulance and the person is sent to the hospital. Then the hospital ships to a rehab facility. And if they haven't improved adequately, they are required by the state to keep them. When the hospital puts out notice that someone needs to go to rehab, the facilities look into their insurance and details to determine if they should take them. (Think clearing house for people deciding if they want to take a job or not.)

All to say, that your parent in assisted living doesn't get you off the hook for dealing with the medical issues that require care.

It’s not just medical. I’d get calls every day to change his sheets, do his laundry, he refused diaper so it was constant. He refused to wait for aide and would walk himself to dinner and activities, and of course, fall. Total pain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should have sufficient funds to pay for round-the-clock aides in our own home, barring a severely debilitating condition that would make nursing home a better option.

Don't kid yourself that this is easy on your kids-- who do you think will be hiring and monitoring those aides? BTDT.

They no show or call off at the last minute and guess what? You are backup. Snd we’ve had every caregiver steal or manipulate for money. It’s terrible. After losing money worth 6 figures, and two went to prison, I give up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I answered earlier but I’m also going to add my observation that for many of us, our parents never had to deal with what we are facing. Neither of my parents had to do elder care. They all died fairly young, rather suddenly in their 60s and 70s. My parents were in theirs 30s/earky 40s at the time. My mom didn’t work. By contrast I (and many of my friends) are engaged in longer term caregiving , not living near parents, parenting kids/teens and in tow working parent families (or single working parent families). At 83, my mom fortunately agreed to move to AL near me, for which am deeply grateful, especially after her Alzheimer’s got worse.

People are living longer but not necessarily healthier lives, end of life care costs have spiraled, ltc coverage no longer worth it, it’s a real crisis.

This is... simply not true. Families have always cared for elderly relatives. Usually relatives lived with them. Maybe people died earlier in past generations, but they didn't all just drop dead, they declined before dying just like many do today.

My MIL, who died at age 100 a few years ago, cared for her FIL (along with her 4 kids) when he moved in with them for a year before his death. My mother, now 80, remembers her grandmother with dementia living with her family when she was in middle school, which means my grandmother cared for 7 kids plus her demented mother for a time.