For those who want a Parent to move to an AL..

[Anonymous]

I answered earlier but I’m also going to add my observation that for many of us, our parents never had to deal with what we are facing. Neither of my parents had to do elder care. They all died fairly young, rather suddenly in their 60s and 70s. My parents were in theirs 30s/earky 40s at the time. My mom didn’t work. By contrast I (and many of my friends) are engaged in longer term caregiving , not living near parents, parenting kids/teens and in tow working parent families (or single working parent families). At 83, my mom fortunately agreed to move to AL near me, for which am deeply grateful, especially after her Alzheimer’s got worse.

People are living longer but not necessarily healthier lives, end of life care costs have spiraled, ltc coverage no longer worth it, it’s a real crisis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

What about you? What are your long term plans so that you won’t be a burden to your children, as you seem to complain about your elderly parent. Do you have a plan in place for a retirement community,downsizing,long term facility? We will all be old sooner or later, if lucky in health, or unlucky some might think.

Would you live in the same place that you want to send your parent and why so much anger/frustration that they want to age in place? I get it.

I'm going to ignore the weirdly hostile tone of this question and answer to the best of my abilities. First, spouse and I are looking at one level home or condo with a smaller footprint and fewer things to manage. We are also considering a CCRC, with the caveat that we have no idea where our children will end up, and we know from experience that it is very hard on middle age folks who have kids of their own to keep flying back and forth to check in on parents because, no matter how good your AL is, when the sh*t hits the fan someone needs to be there to help. At the point where we can't manage on our own or with help, we will move to AL near the child that wants us nearby (if either of them do, if not, so be it, we choose the CCRC where we want to be). we have also written a regular advanced directive and a dementia directive. We have saved enough money to fund care and are looking into an insurance policy with a LTC rider for additional cushion.

We were content to let my mother age in place with help coming in until 1) she got in 3 car accidents in a year (ultimately we took the keys) ; 2) she fell and broke her collarbone and needed a lot of emotional handholding as well as physical care and 3) she was scammed out of something like 200k. At that point, we had to intervene so that she would not lose all the money that could help her age well. She agreed to move to AL near me (and her grandkids) and chose a place she was relatively happy in, until her dementia got so bad she had to move to memory care. Until the bitter end, she recognized me, and I saw there almost daily, which meant I could look out for her in a way that I could never do had she "aged in place" alone across the country without the ability to even make a phone call.

While its important to respect the choices and autonomy of our family members, it is also important to recognize when they are no longer able to care for themselves.

I agree with you that it's important to recognize when people can no longer age alone. Your mom had a series of very extreme events that led to an intervention. Presumably any one of these could have been enough to move her (and I bet you tried to do that). I think that what's unfortunate is that things have to get so extreme for many of our parents before they will accept help. In my case, it's going to be because my mom literally has no other choice and it will be chaotic and disruptive for all of her kids and their families. I definitely feel resentful about it and it means she won't have the choices she would have had if she went earlier, because I'm out of patience. Your attitude is one I wish I had. You must have a lot of peace with how your mom lived out her days (as you should, well done).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I answered earlier but I’m also going to add my observation that for many of us, our parents never had to deal with what we are facing. Neither of my parents had to do elder care. They all died fairly young, rather suddenly in their 60s and 70s. My parents were in theirs 30s/earky 40s at the time. My mom didn’t work. By contrast I (and many of my friends) are engaged in longer term caregiving , not living near parents, parenting kids/teens and in tow working parent families (or single working parent families). At 83, my mom fortunately agreed to move to AL near me, for which am deeply grateful, especially after her Alzheimer’s got worse.

People are living longer but not necessarily healthier lives, end of life care costs have spiraled, ltc coverage no longer worth it, it’s a real crisis.

I think this is the crux of the matter - lives extended by modern healthcare/drugs, but low quality of life for (sometimes) very extended amount of time. It doesn't feel like this is the way we humans are supposed to go out. Something has to give. As the baby boomer cohort ages, there has to be an examination of what all this money and intervention is really achieving. Palliative care needs to be a big part of the conversation. I know religious people are going to come for me, but if God is allowing all the modern medical intervention, why wouldn't he allow people to decide when enough is enough?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Buy a condo or rent an apartment when one level living is needed. Pay for cleaners and other help with tasks as needed.

Eventually, if this isn't enough, move to an assisted living that has varying level of support so both me and my spouse can be accommodated at the same place in the event that we have differing needs. This has worked well for older people that we know, and for their children.

Oh- also adding- that right now, the best thing I do is not accumulate junk. I clean our house out 2-3 times a year. Definitely not doing to my kids what my parents are doing to me and my siblings.

Actually the best thing you can do is to excercise everyday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Buy a condo or rent an apartment when one level living is needed. Pay for cleaners and other help with tasks as needed.

Eventually, if this isn't enough, move to an assisted living that has varying level of support so both me and my spouse can be accommodated at the same place in the event that we have differing needs. This has worked well for older people that we know, and for their children.

Oh- also adding- that right now, the best thing I do is not accumulate junk. I clean our house out 2-3 times a year. Definitely not doing to my kids what my parents are doing to me and my siblings.

Actually the best thing you can do is to excercise everyday.

My parents exercised everyday, and they still have a house full of fifty years of junk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I answered earlier but I’m also going to add my observation that for many of us, our parents never had to deal with what we are facing. Neither of my parents had to do elder care. They all died fairly young, rather suddenly in their 60s and 70s. My parents were in theirs 30s/earky 40s at the time. My mom didn’t work. By contrast I (and many of my friends) are engaged in longer term caregiving , not living near parents, parenting kids/teens and in tow working parent families (or single working parent families). At 83, my mom fortunately agreed to move to AL near me, for which am deeply grateful, especially after her Alzheimer’s got worse.

People are living longer but not necessarily healthier lives, end of life care costs have spiraled, ltc coverage no longer worth it, it’s a real crisis.

I think this is the crux of the matter - lives extended by modern healthcare/drugs, but low quality of life for (sometimes) very extended amount of time. It doesn't feel like this is the way we humans are supposed to go out. Something has to give. As the baby boomer cohort ages, there has to be an examination of what all this money and intervention is really achieving. Palliative care needs to be a big part of the conversation. I know religious people are going to come for me, but if God is allowing all the modern medical intervention, why wouldn't he allow people to decide when enough is enough?

I think the issue is nobody agrees what DNR versus 'allow natural death' versus all the other 'words' mean! We have a whole debate on antibiotics and advanced directives and still nobody can clarify. It's really not easy to clarify!

I had a loved one who was 80 plus and they put him on heart medications. No extreme intervention- just run of the mill heart medications. Looking back, I think even that was too interventionist (and I know people will come after that!). Palliative care and comfort would have been kinder than forcing a heart that wants to start to keep going with medications at that age. But it's easy for doctors to write a script and they don't want to be sued. I don't think anyone really understands this.

[Anonymous]

We recently moved (“forced” according to her) into AL (“beautiful prison”). It’s a fantastic place and yes my husband and I would move there. She has a lovely apartment, exercise class 3 days/week, bridge 3 days/week, daily happy hour (2 drink max), all meals (good but def not great food), on site nurse 8 am-10 pm, on site OT and PT, lectures by community college profs, etc etc.
She’s now been there 2 months, has made friends, but still thinks of it as prison. So be it. She is safe and well cared for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Buy a condo or rent an apartment when one level living is needed. Pay for cleaners and other help with tasks as needed.

Eventually, if this isn't enough, move to an assisted living that has varying level of support so both me and my spouse can be accommodated at the same place in the event that we have differing needs. This has worked well for older people that we know, and for their children.

Oh- also adding- that right now, the best thing I do is not accumulate junk. I clean our house out 2-3 times a year. Definitely not doing to my kids what my parents are doing to me and my siblings.

Good idea. Do a Swedish Death Cleanse when you are in your late 50s and early 60s. Sell everything you don't need on FB market place. Simplify so that you or your kids don't have to do that.

This is hilarious. Unless you plan on living for 20 plus years (from your early 60s on) with nothing but a bed, table and 2 dining chairs, you’ll have plenty of junk. That lovely decorated living room of yours? When your kids have to dispose of it, it becomes junk. Ditto your curated wardrobe.

Better this than leaving 50-70 years of accumulated possessions for your kids. That's what my parents and ILs did. It would have been a huge help if they had even done a decent attempt at decluttering.

Better for whom? Not everything in this world is supposed to optimize your needs.

I assume your parents and in-laws weren’t renters, so you were cleaning out the houses in order to sell them. You could have paid someone to do it, but that wouldn’t maximize your inheritance, right?

[Anonymous]

I just wish there were more one story homes. My parents refused to live in a condo or an apartment. Which is pretty valid because it’s hard to park and walk far, hard to get groceries in, kitchens are small, and there’s no fenced in yard for their dog. My parents got a 2 story and installed a chair lift. They’re in their 70s but love a big home that grandkids can stay at and love hosting big dinners in their big kitchen. Sigh. My grandparents are still alive in their 90s though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Buy a condo or rent an apartment when one level living is needed. Pay for cleaners and other help with tasks as needed.

Eventually, if this isn't enough, move to an assisted living that has varying level of support so both me and my spouse can be accommodated at the same place in the event that we have differing needs. This has worked well for older people that we know, and for their children.

Oh- also adding- that right now, the best thing I do is not accumulate junk. I clean our house out 2-3 times a year. Definitely not doing to my kids what my parents are doing to me and my siblings.

Good idea. Do a Swedish Death Cleanse when you are in your late 50s and early 60s. Sell everything you don't need on FB market place. Simplify so that you or your kids don't have to do that.

This is hilarious. Unless you plan on living for 20 plus years (from your early 60s on) with nothing but a bed, table and 2 dining chairs, you’ll have plenty of junk. That lovely decorated living room of yours? When your kids have to dispose of it, it becomes junk. Ditto your curated wardrobe.

Better this than leaving 50-70 years of accumulated possessions for your kids. That's what my parents and ILs did. It would have been a huge help if they had even done a decent attempt at decluttering.

Better for whom? Not everything in this world is supposed to optimize your needs.

I assume your parents and in-laws weren’t renters, so you were cleaning out the houses in order to sell them. You could have paid someone to do it, but that wouldn’t maximize your inheritance, right?

You don't understand hoarders

My neighbor was in this situation cleaning out her mother's house. She had to comb through everything even bags of trash. Her mother had gotten so bad precious family heirlooms (not monetary value so you don't think its all about money) were jumbled in with disposable take out containers from the 2000s (carefully washed of course.)

Anyone they paid would have just tossed it all

[Anonymous]

1) DH and I plan to sell our home and buy a condo once we retire in our 60s, our kids are moved out and established work wise, and we don’t need the space. Eventually, we will move into AL or a 55+ community depending on our health as we age.

2) I would live in AL like both of our parents have previously. It’s tough being old and I don’t want my kids to have to carry the burden of caretaking 24/7. We will live independently and try to age in place for as long as we can but the truth is, father time comes for us all so we should make the most of the opportunities we have. It should also provide some social opportunities at that age should we be blessed to live so long

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t tell if the OP is just being snarky or just has no experience becoming the parent to their aging, demented parents, or living in the sandwich generation, but I’ll bite.

I’ve already gone through my stuff with my only child/ only beneficiary (I am early 50’s, he is early 20’s). He wants anything that might remotely have value so he can be the hoarder, no skin off my back. Anything he doesn’t want has already been cleaned out. It was emotionally difficult disposing of two sets of grandparents vacation slides, love letters, pictures of people who I’ll never be able to identify, college yearbooks and the like. I should add, in addition to the two sets of grandparents I also ended up with my parents things and my uncle’s, as my mom was his sole beneficiary. Admittedly I still have a closet of their boxes, but only because my son wants the contents.

I half joke that if I ever get like my mom, who is about ten years in from the first dementia symptoms, two years into memory care and almost a year into a mostly vegetative state, that I want my son to put me in a car, start up that engine and close that garage door. Come back in a few hours and the issue would have taken care of itself.

It’s about quality of life, practicality and financial responsibility. Would my mom be thrilled her legacy and everything she and my dad skimped and saved for is going to pay for her care (so far about $500k over the past four years)? She’d be absolutely devastated. Broken. But it is what it is, and there’s no way in good conscience I couldn’t be providing her the best care money can afford.

So there you go, I’m making plans. If my son won’t go along with my car-in-the-garage idea I’ll move to a continuing care place while I’m still able to enjoy some of their offerings. But in a low cost of living area. After what has been my life for the past ten years I would never burden my child with the same path.

A friend's mom said she "didn't want to be a burden," and that she was going to do this. Her kids begged her not to. She was going to miss out on her grandkids' lives. It was very tense and they were walking on eggshells, right up until she did it. Then they were sad, but also angry. It was also a theme in the latest Morning Show--Billy Crudup's character begged his mom not to kill herself. This will never go how you expect it to.

Also, I think it's weird to tell your kids you won't be a burden and creates an unhealthy dynamic. You can think it all you want, plan for it all you want, but why do you have to specifically tell your kids?!?!

Yep, I also think you have to do it quietly. Go off the pills, stop eating, arrange something else. Not tell your kid to put you in the garage -- it's a worse burden than becoming a vegetable! Your kids don't want to know!

It is mind boggling to think that people take dramatic steps to clean out their houses, but then tell the kids, or spouse, that they are euthanize themselves to so they "aren't a burden." Your loved ones are going to feel responsible for your decision - that you killed yourself to benefit them. That's a far larger burden than sorting through a bunch of crap from the house.

I'm not criticizing the plan, just the advertisement of it. If you feel you must take this route, put your affairs in order, make everything east for your heirs, and then take care of it yourself without any fanfare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t tell if the OP is just being snarky or just has no experience becoming the parent to their aging, demented parents, or living in the sandwich generation, but I’ll bite.

I’ve already gone through my stuff with my only child/ only beneficiary (I am early 50’s, he is early 20’s). He wants anything that might remotely have value so he can be the hoarder, no skin off my back. Anything he doesn’t want has already been cleaned out. It was emotionally difficult disposing of two sets of grandparents vacation slides, love letters, pictures of people who I’ll never be able to identify, college yearbooks and the like. I should add, in addition to the two sets of grandparents I also ended up with my parents things and my uncle’s, as my mom was his sole beneficiary. Admittedly I still have a closet of their boxes, but only because my son wants the contents.

I half joke that if I ever get like my mom, who is about ten years in from the first dementia symptoms, two years into memory care and almost a year into a mostly vegetative state, that I want my son to put me in a car, start up that engine and close that garage door. Come back in a few hours and the issue would have taken care of itself.

It’s about quality of life, practicality and financial responsibility. Would my mom be thrilled her legacy and everything she and my dad skimped and saved for is going to pay for her care (so far about $500k over the past four years)? She’d be absolutely devastated. Broken. But it is what it is, and there’s no way in good conscience I couldn’t be providing her the best care money can afford.

So there you go, I’m making plans. If my son won’t go along with my car-in-the-garage idea I’ll move to a continuing care place while I’m still able to enjoy some of their offerings. But in a low cost of living area. After what has been my life for the past ten years I would never burden my child with the same path.

A friend's mom said she "didn't want to be a burden," and that she was going to do this. Her kids begged her not to. She was going to miss out on her grandkids' lives. It was very tense and they were walking on eggshells, right up until she did it. Then they were sad, but also angry. It was also a theme in the latest Morning Show--Billy Crudup's character begged his mom not to kill herself. This will never go how you expect it to.

Also, I think it's weird to tell your kids you won't be a burden and creates an unhealthy dynamic. You can think it all you want, plan for it all you want, but why do you have to specifically tell your kids?!?!

Yep, I also think you have to do it quietly. Go off the pills, stop eating, arrange something else. Not tell your kid to put you in the garage -- it's a worse burden than becoming a vegetable! Your kids don't want to know!

It is mind boggling to think that people take dramatic steps to clean out their houses, but then tell the kids, or spouse, that they are euthanize themselves to so they "aren't a burden." Your loved ones are going to feel responsible for your decision - that you killed yourself to benefit them. That's a far larger burden than sorting through a bunch of crap from the house.

I'm not criticizing the plan, just the advertisement of it. If you feel you must take this route, put your affairs in order, make everything east for your heirs, and then take care of it yourself without any fanfare.

I agree with you. My response was to the poster who was "joking" that they'll ask their son to put them into garage to take the quick way out. In reality, this is how people have died for centuries: stopped eating as unless forced and medicated, that's what happens in the end. You know the stories where old elders went into the woods and so do the animals to die in quiet and peace?

[Anonymous]

I will absolutely try to make things easier on my kids by going somewhere sooner rather than later. I do not want them to be burdened by me. Everywhere I look for my parents I am picturing for myself, too.

This whole process is day to day immersion in the inevitable reality of my own demise and incapacitation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Buy a condo or rent an apartment when one level living is needed. Pay for cleaners and other help with tasks as needed.

Eventually, if this isn't enough, move to an assisted living that has varying level of support so both me and my spouse can be accommodated at the same place in the event that we have differing needs. This has worked well for older people that we know, and for their children.

Oh- also adding- that right now, the best thing I do is not accumulate junk. I clean our house out 2-3 times a year. Definitely not doing to my kids what my parents are doing to me and my siblings.

Good idea. Do a Swedish Death Cleanse when you are in your late 50s and early 60s. Sell everything you don't need on FB market place. Simplify so that you or your kids don't have to do that.

This is hilarious. Unless you plan on living for 20 plus years (from your early 60s on) with nothing but a bed, table and 2 dining chairs, you’ll have plenty of junk. That lovely decorated living room of yours? When your kids have to dispose of it, it becomes junk. Ditto your curated wardrobe.

Better this than leaving 50-70 years of accumulated possessions for your kids. That's what my parents and ILs did. It would have been a huge help if they had even done a decent attempt at decluttering.

Better for whom? Not everything in this world is supposed to optimize your needs.

I assume your parents and in-laws weren’t renters, so you were cleaning out the houses in order to sell them. You could have paid someone to do it, but that wouldn’t maximize your inheritance, right?

You don't understand hoarders

My neighbor was in this situation cleaning out her mother's house. She had to comb through everything even bags of trash. Her mother had gotten so bad precious family heirlooms (not monetary value so you don't think its all about money) were jumbled in with disposable take out containers from the 2000s (carefully washed of course.)

Anyone they paid would have just tossed it all

Agree that PP doesn’t understand. I’m in this situation now, while parent is still alive, and it is awful. I am trying to secure their future (theirs, not mine — have you seen the cost of senior care? They need every nickel they can get from the house just to afford even a low-mid tier facility, and it is piles upon piles of trash bags filled with anything from heirlooms to junk mail to thermometers to flashlights to underwear to letters from my great grandparents. There is nothing to do but wade through it, day after day, one item at a time.

PP is welcome to join me lol. I will take any help I can get.