DW never wants sex during the holidays

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My ex used to get verbally and sometimes physically abusive during the holidays. I'm quite sure it was caused by the pressure of nonstop family scrutiny, even though my ex was from a loving family. I am a man and she is a woman. When I say verbally I mean screaming, and when I say physically I mean hitting. Her punches and slaps never actually hurt physically but they were very upsetting to me, especially when one of our children saw her throw a punch, which I blocked with my hand. Years later our child asked me about the time mommy and daddy were hitting each other during a family event. This happened in a private room but the kid saw us. Most people wouldn't believe me if I told them.

This is going off-topic but it’s really important to call this out.

Your ex was engaged in what is inaccurately described as “reactive abuse” or more accurately self-defense against escalating emotional or physical abuse, typically perpetrated by someone with a personality disorder or at a minimum engaged in manipulation and emotional abuse. Anyone about to nod along and pity this PP should google “reactive abuse” to understand what’s being described.

How can you possibly have enough information to make that diagnosis? PP says he was being hit and suggests it was a result of his wife being stressed out because she unduly scrutinized by her own family. Taking those assertions as true, how can we leap to the conclusion that the wife was hitting the husband because of the husband's abuse?

His language and description is very hands-off about his role in the situation and clinically specific to a degree that is extremely recognizable to anyone who has dealt with interventions in this kind of situation. Maybe (infinitely small chance) he didn’t do anything, but the scenario he’s describing, particularly blaming it on his wife and her family’s expectations and it taking place around the holidays while describing himself as an innocent bystander and victim, is so common that it might as well be a script.

I don’t really care if you think I have enough information- there is someone reading this thread who has experienced the exact same thing and is blaming herself and staying in a relationship with someone who is telling her it’s all her fault. If she can google “reactive abuse” today it might give her the push she needs to seek safety.

You are a psycho.

[Anonymous]

Here's my tip to men who want sex on a holiday: get those kids to bed early. You want sex on Christmas? Get off your keister and get dinner for the kids on the table by 6 at the latest. 5 is better. Play a game with them after dinner. Wife can participate or go relax (the latter is better -- suggest it). Pay attention to what time it is when you are playing with the kids, and set a timer if you need to. Initiate bedtime. Stay on the kids to get in jammies and get teeth brushed, and assume it will require more effort than usual because they will be overstimulated. Get them in bed, on time or even early (especially if they were up late the night before and up early for presents). As you tuck them in, take a sec to quick pick up a few toys or just rust a little.

Then ask your wife to come have a drink with you. Or a snack if she doesn't drink. Sit in the light if the tree and talk about the day. Take a moment to thank her for the work she put into making it a good holiday. All of this should be happening before 9pm, cause she's tired.

That's your best chance for Christmas nooky. If you aren't willing to do this, don't complain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My ex used to get verbally and sometimes physically abusive during the holidays. I'm quite sure it was caused by the pressure of nonstop family scrutiny, even though my ex was from a loving family. I am a man and she is a woman. When I say verbally I mean screaming, and when I say physically I mean hitting. Her punches and slaps never actually hurt physically but they were very upsetting to me, especially when one of our children saw her throw a punch, which I blocked with my hand. Years later our child asked me about the time mommy and daddy were hitting each other during a family event. This happened in a private room but the kid saw us. Most people wouldn't believe me if I told them.

This is going off-topic but it’s really important to call this out.

Your ex was engaged in what is inaccurately described as “reactive abuse” or more accurately self-defense against escalating emotional or physical abuse, typically perpetrated by someone with a personality disorder or at a minimum engaged in manipulation and emotional abuse. Anyone about to nod along and pity this PP should google “reactive abuse” to understand what’s being described.

How can you possibly have enough information to make that diagnosis? PP says he was being hit and suggests it was a result of his wife being stressed out because she unduly scrutinized by her own family. Taking those assertions as true, how can we leap to the conclusion that the wife was hitting the husband because of the husband's abuse?

His language and description is very hands-off about his role in the situation and clinically specific to a degree that is extremely recognizable to anyone who has dealt with interventions in this kind of situation. Maybe (infinitely small chance) he didn’t do anything, but the scenario he’s describing, particularly blaming it on his wife and her family’s expectations and it taking place around the holidays while describing himself as an innocent bystander and victim, is so common that it might as well be a script.

I don’t really care if you think I have enough information- there is someone reading this thread who has experienced the exact same thing and is blaming herself and staying in a relationship with someone who is telling her it’s all her fault. If she can google “reactive abuse” today it might give her the push she needs to seek safety.

I agree with you and thought the same thing when I read your post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's completely normal. Her social energy is all used up by the social obligations of the holidays. She doesn't have enough alone time and rest. Yes it's a special time to connect-- but with other people, not you. Because she lives with you all year long. You should be connecting with the other people that you are seeing, not increasing your demands on your wife.

You might think that telling her all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is the solution, but it isn't. You could consider taking on some of the workload, but only if you're going to do a good job and do it reliably and without being reminded. Otherwise you're just one more problem on her list.

I don’t think that telling her that all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is good, but I think it’s fine to tell her that maybe they should dial it back as a couple.
He’s her husband. He is supposed to protect her and take care of her, at least somewhat. He shouldn’t just watch while she makes herself crazy and exhausted.

You can try that, but what you're saying is "Don't do the things you have been doing, because I don't value them." That is not going to put her in the mood. It only makes her feel unappreciated and alone. He should offer up something that *he* values to be eliminated or taken over by him.

No.
You can have like three things you value around the holidays and that’s it. So, you can value:
- family time, religion, music
Or
- gifts, elaborate meals, and decorations
Or
- cards, connecting with extended family, and baking for the neighbors

You don’t get to say that you value 25 different things and then drive yourself and everyone around you crazy.

"Honey, you are driving me and everyone else crazy and you can't have the things you value" is not going to get her into the sack.

Maybe not. But at least she won’t be making herself crazy and exhausted.
It’s kind of his responsibility not to let her do that. Even if it doesn’t lead to sex.

I wonder what voluntary activities of his she would like to eliminate. For his own good of course.

Probably work related stuff. I know I tell my husband not to pick up extra work because he thinks we need the money. We will find other ways to save money, but we want him home.

At least he's getting paid for it. My salaried exDH liked to hide behind his work rather than do any sort of mental or physical labor at home. Change a lightbulb? Dry the dishes? Nope, have to revise this slide no one will actually look at for the 14th time, because "work".

Yes! The idea that men don’t get anxious and neurotic about stuff that doesn’t matter is ridiculous!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's completely normal. Her social energy is all used up by the social obligations of the holidays. She doesn't have enough alone time and rest. Yes it's a special time to connect-- but with other people, not you. Because she lives with you all year long. You should be connecting with the other people that you are seeing, not increasing your demands on your wife.

You might think that telling her all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is the solution, but it isn't. You could consider taking on some of the workload, but only if you're going to do a good job and do it reliably and without being reminded. Otherwise you're just one more problem on her list.

I don’t think that telling her that all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is good, but I think it’s fine to tell her that maybe they should dial it back as a couple.
He’s her husband. He is supposed to protect her and take care of her, at least somewhat. He shouldn’t just watch while she makes herself crazy and exhausted.

You can try that, but what you're saying is "Don't do the things you have been doing, because I don't value them." That is not going to put her in the mood. It only makes her feel unappreciated and alone. He should offer up something that *he* values to be eliminated or taken over by him.

No.
You can have like three things you value around the holidays and that’s it. So, you can value:
- family time, religion, music
Or
- gifts, elaborate meals, and decorations
Or
- cards, connecting with extended family, and baking for the neighbors

You don’t get to say that you value 25 different things and then drive yourself and everyone around you crazy.

wrong, she can value whatever she wants and do whatever she wants for christmas, EVEN IF it means her husband doesnt get to have sex with her that week because she is spending her time doing holiday things that she enjoys, but that do wear her out a little bit both socially and physically.

I mean, if she is someone who is going to have “lover of Christmas” written on her tombstone, then yes, you’re right. If this is the one time of year that she is just all out and she loves it, then she should do it.
But if she is just a typical neurotic lady who just feels like she needs to do “all the things” so that she doesn’t disappoint anyone, and she will go and go until she is physically and emotionally exhausted, then her husband’s role is to help her relax, and pick like three things to go all in on.

Guess the Christmas pause on DCUM misogyny is over.

Why is anything nice or lovely or generous or gracious or that makes life more special or comfortable always put down as the product of "neuroticism" by men when they want sex or want to be lazy, but they are perfectly happy to bask in it if none of their effort or contribution is required?

Rheotorical question in case that wasn't apparent.

I think you are misunderstanding me. I’m a woman. I was describing myself. I also don’t think neurotic is a bad word, so I think there is some miscommunication there. I just mean it to mean a normal person. Like not a personality disordered or psychotic person. A normal, neurotic person.

And I didn’t say not to make people comfortable.
I said to pick three things that are valuable to you, put effort into those, then let the rest slide. If special traditions and a comfortable home are two things that are valuable to you, then you have one more to go!

What I said was not to have 25 things that are the most valuable thing to you. You will make yourself crazy. You can say that special traditions and a cozy home and decorating for Christmas are important.

But then you can’t also say that incorporating religion and seeing all of your extended family and hosting an annual party and making Christmas cards and getting perfect presents for everyone you know and putting up lights and baking and on and on is also important. Pick a few things and phone the rest in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's completely normal. Her social energy is all used up by the social obligations of the holidays. She doesn't have enough alone time and rest. Yes it's a special time to connect-- but with other people, not you. Because she lives with you all year long. You should be connecting with the other people that you are seeing, not increasing your demands on your wife.

You might think that telling her all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is the solution, but it isn't. You could consider taking on some of the workload, but only if you're going to do a good job and do it reliably and without being reminded. Otherwise you're just one more problem on her list.

I don’t think that telling her that all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is good, but I think it’s fine to tell her that maybe they should dial it back as a couple.
He’s her husband. He is supposed to protect her and take care of her, at least somewhat. He shouldn’t just watch while she makes herself crazy and exhausted.

You can try that, but what you're saying is "Don't do the things you have been doing, because I don't value them." That is not going to put her in the mood. It only makes her feel unappreciated and alone. He should offer up something that *he* values to be eliminated or taken over by him.

No.
You can have like three things you value around the holidays and that’s it. So, you can value:
- family time, religion, music
Or
- gifts, elaborate meals, and decorations
Or
- cards, connecting with extended family, and baking for the neighbors

You don’t get to say that you value 25 different things and then drive yourself and everyone around you crazy.

wrong, she can value whatever she wants and do whatever she wants for christmas, EVEN IF it means her husband doesnt get to have sex with her that week because she is spending her time doing holiday things that she enjoys, but that do wear her out a little bit both socially and physically.

I mean, if she is someone who is going to have “lover of Christmas” written on her tombstone, then yes, you’re right. If this is the one time of year that she is just all out and she loves it, then she should do it.
But if she is just a typical neurotic lady who just feels like she needs to do “all the things” so that she doesn’t disappoint anyone, and she will go and go until she is physically and emotionally exhausted, then her husband’s role is to help her relax, and pick like three things to go all in on.

Guess the Christmas pause on DCUM misogyny is over.

Why is anything nice or lovely or generous or gracious or that makes life more special or comfortable always put down as the product of "neuroticism" by men when they want sex or want to be lazy, but they are perfectly happy to bask in it if none of their effort or contribution is required?

Rheotorical question in case that wasn't apparent.

I think you are misunderstanding me. I’m a woman. I was describing myself. I also don’t think neurotic is a bad word, so I think there is some miscommunication there. I just mean it to mean a normal person. Like not a personality disordered or psychotic person. A normal, neurotic person.

And I didn’t say not to make people comfortable.
I said to pick three things that are valuable to you, put effort into those, then let the rest slide. If special traditions and a comfortable home are two things that are valuable to you, then you have one more to go!

What I said was not to have 25 things that are the most valuable thing to you. You will make yourself crazy. You can say that special traditions and a cozy home and decorating for Christmas are important.

But then you can’t also say that incorporating religion and seeing all of your extended family and hosting an annual party and making Christmas cards and getting perfect presents for everyone you know and putting up lights and baking and on and on is also important. Pick a few things and phone the rest in.

For a lot of people, these special things are the entire point of life and the reason you work hard and sacrifice and create relationships the rest of the year. Picking 3 things is like saying I only want to live for 1/3rd of my life expectancy. DCUM people can be such sad robots about socializing and holidays.

Where is all of your energy going? Just to work and home renovations?

I think that there are certain things worth getting tired and overextended for. I’m glad that my family of origin and my friends agree. It’s tragic that I married a family that feels differently and would rather sit on their phones and wait to die.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's completely normal. Her social energy is all used up by the social obligations of the holidays. She doesn't have enough alone time and rest. Yes it's a special time to connect-- but with other people, not you. Because she lives with you all year long. You should be connecting with the other people that you are seeing, not increasing your demands on your wife.

You might think that telling her all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is the solution, but it isn't. You could consider taking on some of the workload, but only if you're going to do a good job and do it reliably and without being reminded. Otherwise you're just one more problem on her list.

I don’t think that telling her that all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is good, but I think it’s fine to tell her that maybe they should dial it back as a couple.
He’s her husband. He is supposed to protect her and take care of her, at least somewhat. He shouldn’t just watch while she makes herself crazy and exhausted.

You can try that, but what you're saying is "Don't do the things you have been doing, because I don't value them." That is not going to put her in the mood. It only makes her feel unappreciated and alone. He should offer up something that *he* values to be eliminated or taken over by him.

No.
You can have like three things you value around the holidays and that’s it. So, you can value:
- family time, religion, music
Or
- gifts, elaborate meals, and decorations
Or
- cards, connecting with extended family, and baking for the neighbors

You don’t get to say that you value 25 different things and then drive yourself and everyone around you crazy.

wrong, she can value whatever she wants and do whatever she wants for christmas, EVEN IF it means her husband doesnt get to have sex with her that week because she is spending her time doing holiday things that she enjoys, but that do wear her out a little bit both socially and physically.

I mean, if she is someone who is going to have “lover of Christmas” written on her tombstone, then yes, you’re right. If this is the one time of year that she is just all out and she loves it, then she should do it.
But if she is just a typical neurotic lady who just feels like she needs to do “all the things” so that she doesn’t disappoint anyone, and she will go and go until she is physically and emotionally exhausted, then her husband’s role is to help her relax, and pick like three things to go all in on.

Guess the Christmas pause on DCUM misogyny is over.

Why is anything nice or lovely or generous or gracious or that makes life more special or comfortable always put down as the product of "neuroticism" by men when they want sex or want to be lazy, but they are perfectly happy to bask in it if none of their effort or contribution is required?

Rheotorical question in case that wasn't apparent.

I think you are misunderstanding me. I’m a woman. I was describing myself. I also don’t think neurotic is a bad word, so I think there is some miscommunication there. I just mean it to mean a normal person. Like not a personality disordered or psychotic person. A normal, neurotic person.

And I didn’t say not to make people comfortable.
I said to pick three things that are valuable to you, put effort into those, then let the rest slide. If special traditions and a comfortable home are two things that are valuable to you, then you have one more to go!

What I said was not to have 25 things that are the most valuable thing to you. You will make yourself crazy. You can say that special traditions and a cozy home and decorating for Christmas are important.

But then you can’t also say that incorporating religion and seeing all of your extended family and hosting an annual party and making Christmas cards and getting perfect presents for everyone you know and putting up lights and baking and on and on is also important. Pick a few things and phone the rest in.

For a lot of people, these special things are the entire point of life and the reason you work hard and sacrifice and create relationships the rest of the year. Picking 3 things is like saying I only want to live for 1/3rd of my life expectancy.

What if you were asked to consider doing half the decorating. To relieve some stress. Would this be a death sentence for you? Of course not.

PP is saying we take reasonable things off our load to make life less stressful. Stress will in fact shorten your lifespan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's completely normal. Her social energy is all used up by the social obligations of the holidays. She doesn't have enough alone time and rest. Yes it's a special time to connect-- but with other people, not you. Because she lives with you all year long. You should be connecting with the other people that you are seeing, not increasing your demands on your wife.

You might think that telling her all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is the solution, but it isn't. You could consider taking on some of the workload, but only if you're going to do a good job and do it reliably and without being reminded. Otherwise you're just one more problem on her list.

I don’t think that telling her that all of her efforts are stupid and pointless is good, but I think it’s fine to tell her that maybe they should dial it back as a couple.
He’s her husband. He is supposed to protect her and take care of her, at least somewhat. He shouldn’t just watch while she makes herself crazy and exhausted.

You can try that, but what you're saying is "Don't do the things you have been doing, because I don't value them." That is not going to put her in the mood. It only makes her feel unappreciated and alone. He should offer up something that *he* values to be eliminated or taken over by him.

No.
You can have like three things you value around the holidays and that’s it. So, you can value:
- family time, religion, music
Or
- gifts, elaborate meals, and decorations
Or
- cards, connecting with extended family, and baking for the neighbors

You don’t get to say that you value 25 different things and then drive yourself and everyone around you crazy.

wrong, she can value whatever she wants and do whatever she wants for christmas, EVEN IF it means her husband doesnt get to have sex with her that week because she is spending her time doing holiday things that she enjoys, but that do wear her out a little bit both socially and physically.

I mean, if she is someone who is going to have “lover of Christmas” written on her tombstone, then yes, you’re right. If this is the one time of year that she is just all out and she loves it, then she should do it.
But if she is just a typical neurotic lady who just feels like she needs to do “all the things” so that she doesn’t disappoint anyone, and she will go and go until she is physically and emotionally exhausted, then her husband’s role is to help her relax, and pick like three things to go all in on.

Guess the Christmas pause on DCUM misogyny is over.

Why is anything nice or lovely or generous or gracious or that makes life more special or comfortable always put down as the product of "neuroticism" by men when they want sex or want to be lazy, but they are perfectly happy to bask in it if none of their effort or contribution is required?

Rheotorical question in case that wasn't apparent.

I think you are misunderstanding me. I’m a woman. I was describing myself. I also don’t think neurotic is a bad word, so I think there is some miscommunication there. I just mean it to mean a normal person. Like not a personality disordered or psychotic person. A normal, neurotic person.

And I didn’t say not to make people comfortable.
I said to pick three things that are valuable to you, put effort into those, then let the rest slide. If special traditions and a comfortable home are two things that are valuable to you, then you have one more to go!

What I said was not to have 25 things that are the most valuable thing to you. You will make yourself crazy. You can say that special traditions and a cozy home and decorating for Christmas are important.

But then you can’t also say that incorporating religion and seeing all of your extended family and hosting an annual party and making Christmas cards and getting perfect presents for everyone you know and putting up lights and baking and on and on is also important. Pick a few things and phone the rest in.

For a lot of people, these special things are the entire point of life and the reason you work hard and sacrifice and create relationships the rest of the year. Picking 3 things is like saying I only want to live for 1/3rd of my life expectancy. DCUM people can be such sad robots about socializing and holidays.

Where is all of your energy going? Just to work and home renovations?

I think that there are certain things worth getting tired and overextended for. I’m glad that my family of origin and my friends agree. It’s tragic that I married a family that feels differently and would rather sit on their phones and wait to die.

I didn’t say to sit on your phone and wait to die, and I’m sorry that’s how your in-laws feel. Honestly, being pissed at your in-laws and even seeing them should not make your top 3 IMO .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's my tip to men who want sex on a holiday: get those kids to bed early. You want sex on Christmas? Get off your keister and get dinner for the kids on the table by 6 at the latest. 5 is better. Play a game with them after dinner. Wife can participate or go relax (the latter is better -- suggest it). Pay attention to what time it is when you are playing with the kids, and set a timer if you need to. Initiate bedtime. Stay on the kids to get in jammies and get teeth brushed, and assume it will require more effort than usual because they will be overstimulated. Get them in bed, on time or even early (especially if they were up late the night before and up early for presents). As you tuck them in, take a sec to quick pick up a few toys or just rust a little.

Then ask your wife to come have a drink with you. Or a snack if she doesn't drink. Sit in the light if the tree and talk about the day. Take a moment to thank her for the work she put into making it a good holiday. All of this should be happening before 9pm, cause she's tired.

That's your best chance for Christmas nooky. If you aren't willing to do this, don't complain.

Men, do this anyway for nonsexual reasons. However, this will not make her hot for you. And, if you follow this advice as a way to have sex, you will end up feeling resentful; because it's not going to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:God it drives me crazy when men say they want to “connect” and make it all about sex.

If you want to connect, plan a date. Take her out. Cook dinner with her. Spend more time with her. Talk to her. Make her time with you fun. Help her more. THAT’S what builds connection. Connection does not default to sex.

Or just be honest. You don’t want connection. You want sex. Quit pretending that it’s something it’s not. Sex when she doesn’t want it is not going to make her feel more “connected” to you.

Because his connection to her obviously doesn't matter.

[Anonymous]

I’m an introvert. I find the holidays incredibly draining on a good year. I enjoy socializing but I am tired afterwards. It sounds like she’s explaining herself well. Maybe try respecting her feelings instead of trying to make an argument for why you are entitled to sex?

[Anonymous]

It sounds like OP's wife does enjoy these things, just also finds them tiring like PP. And OP may be suffering from a poor understanding of holidays. If he thinks his wife can just cut back on everything she does and nobody will mind and there will be no consequences, think again. Family and community relationships are reciprocal and require at least a little bit of time and effort. Sometimes men are just coasting on their wife's effort so they don't realize this. But blowing off everyone's parties, giving no gifts, refusing to travel, being a crap host or telling houseguests they aren't welcome absolutely does have long-term relationship consequences. OP may be fine with the loss of those relationships but that doesn't mean it isn't a real consideration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like OP's wife does enjoy these things, just also finds them tiring like PP. And OP may be suffering from a poor understanding of holidays. If he thinks his wife can just cut back on everything she does and nobody will mind and there will be no consequences, think again. Family and community relationships are reciprocal and require at least a little bit of time and effort. Sometimes men are just coasting on their wife's effort so they don't realize this. But blowing off everyone's parties, giving no gifts, refusing to travel, being a crap host or telling houseguests they aren't welcome absolutely does have long-term relationship consequences. OP may be fine with the loss of those relationships but that doesn't mean it isn't a real consideration.

Men or women who say “just do less” need to read this. My ex insisted on doing less and cutting out reciprocity. We were cut off and isolated. I’m slowly rebuilding a social network for me and my kids, but I mourn all the lost connections and experiences from when I went along with my ex’s forced cutbacks. Some relationships or experiences won’t ever come back, and I can see in hindsight how little effort it would have taken exDH for huge gains. He smugly thinks he’s somehow won, but has a really sad lonely life that he expresses through nastiness at the kids and occasional text outbursts at me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like OP's wife does enjoy these things, just also finds them tiring like PP. And OP may be suffering from a poor understanding of holidays. If he thinks his wife can just cut back on everything she does and nobody will mind and there will be no consequences, think again. Family and community relationships are reciprocal and require at least a little bit of time and effort. Sometimes men are just coasting on their wife's effort so they don't realize this. But blowing off everyone's parties, giving no gifts, refusing to travel, being a crap host or telling houseguests they aren't welcome absolutely does have long-term relationship consequences. OP may be fine with the loss of those relationships but that doesn't mean it isn't a real consideration.

I hear you. But you don’t have to blow things off. You can just go to parties if you are available, spend one afternoon picking out gifts at one store, not host a party on your own, host houseguests in a spare room, and make a meat, veggie, and starch for dinner or order takeout. It doesn’t have to be a feast.
And then you can spend the time you would spend focused on those things doing all of the Christmas traditions (picking the perfect tree, going to the Nutcracker, riding the Polar Express, etc.), doing religious things (Jesse tree , church, giving to the poor, etc), and decorating your house for Christmas.

Or you can decide that you want to focus on hosting a party and accepting party invitations, visiting extended family, and sending out beautiful cards. And then you don’t go to all of the traditional things, decorate minimally, and spend one or two afternoons shopping for gifts for everyone (including kids).

You shouldn’t blow off everything, but you can’t make everything the most important thing either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like OP's wife does enjoy these things, just also finds them tiring like PP. And OP may be suffering from a poor understanding of holidays. If he thinks his wife can just cut back on everything she does and nobody will mind and there will be no consequences, think again. Family and community relationships are reciprocal and require at least a little bit of time and effort. Sometimes men are just coasting on their wife's effort so they don't realize this. But blowing off everyone's parties, giving no gifts, refusing to travel, being a crap host or telling houseguests they aren't welcome absolutely does have long-term relationship consequences. OP may be fine with the loss of those relationships but that doesn't mean it isn't a real consideration.

Men or women who say “just do less” need to read this. My ex insisted on doing less and cutting out reciprocity. We were cut off and isolated. I’m slowly rebuilding a social network for me and my kids, but I mourn all the lost connections and experiences from when I went along with my ex’s forced cutbacks. Some relationships or experiences won’t ever come back, and I can see in hindsight how little effort it would have taken exDH for huge gains. He smugly thinks he’s somehow won, but has a really sad lonely life that he expresses through nastiness at the kids and occasional text outbursts at me.

I just can’t with all these dramatic stories. A whole lot of drama llamas on here. Do the holidays things you can handle, drop the rest. Or keep them and know it’s your choice. I don’t understand how cutting back on holiday parties leads to being cut-off and isolated from your social network. Did you not speak at any other time of the year? (Actually don’t answer, it doesn’t matter). So little agency on here.