Has anyone regretted leaving over infidelity?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think if you can find a way to be cordial and never have sex with the person again and live somewhat separately the way these no-sex marriages work that is safe and respectable if not fulfilling, it could maybe work out at least till the kids are out of the house. Have a new set of rules to follow about the marriage that both of you agree to and adhere to. I can't imagine living in fear or living a lie is healthy for anyone and it's rubbish to believe that someone cheating on you especially repeatedly actually still loves you. I think a lot of women miss the money but not the man if you are asking strictly about women.

Keep in mind "no-sex marriage" means that he continues to sleep with his AP.

Obviously, but who cares? If you decide you don’t wanna have sex with them again but you’re staying married because of the marriage it doesn’t matter. I think people really can’t understand they can actually decide they will never have sex with their husbands again and then they don’t care if they’re sleeping with anybody else. That’s actually a good thing because then he’s not going to bother his wife anymore he doesn’t want to be with him. I had a no sex marriage seriously because I couldn’t stand him and I was staying because of the kids for the longest time but we still ended up divorced but I full out told him I didn’t care if he slept with anybody else. I was never sleeping with him again. I did not want to be married but I was trapped geographically and I had to stay and eventually I was able to leave because I am moving to the right location but it took almost a decade. He did not have a mistress but I told him he could have one and I wouldn’t divorce him over cheating but I would divorce him over being a jerk and eventually I did. (Low T). The point is if a woman decides she’s done having sex with her husband she doesn’t really care if he’s having sex with his AP.

Agree with you 100%. And yet there are plenty (most?) on this forum who genuinely think a "sexless marriage" means the man remains
celibate! Though I question if your husband did have a mistress, perhaps he was one of those rare low T guys.

He had low T. Diagnosed. But the point is if he had cheated, I wouldn’t have cared because I was done. I actually wish for years that he would cheat so I would have a public excuse to leave the marriage because it makes it easier if there’s a reason and people don’t ask. But he never did. Are used to actually wish he would cheat and fall in love with somebody and leave me and marry her so he would get the hell away from me. It never happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I always thought it was wrong how women hated Hilary Clinton for staying with Bill after cheating in a very public way. I thought feminism meant women had the *choice* to stay or go, and either choice was valid depending on a variety of factors—including what the woman wanted.

Sometimes the indiscretion is simply that: a mistake. Not everyone is a serial cheater.

If both parties still love each other and want a future together, there’s hope. And staying together to rebuild the marriage will ultimately make life easier: preserve wealth, preserve family unit.

I’ve never cheated or been cheated on, but I’ve watched marriages implode. Some have cheated in rather public ways insofar as the neighbors know about it. Some divorced; it seemed hard for the party that didn’t quickly find a new partner. Some worked through it; they seem happy.

I imagine I would feel miserable watching my partner with a new mate. I would hate watching my kids go off with them on vacations. I’d feel lonely and jealous. I definitely would not feel comfortable dating online and sleeping with singles who could have a STD. I definitely don’t want to worry about money or aging solo. Lots of reasons to stay married. Or at least try.

I don’t know why you think STDs are rampant with dating because my ex-husband gave me an STD and I found out right after we got married. Avoiding STDs is possible and not that hard I mean everybody could risk HPV but that’s not bad because it’s treatable if it’s even caught and other things just get tested and use a condom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are quite a few who come out of it with a much better marriage. I stayed and we are very happy. We always had an active sex life and still do. I guess the type of cheating matters, the circumstances and the quality/love/happiness of the marriage prior to cheating. We lost ourselves in the kid heavy years and both carried some unexpressed resentment had communication issues—it was largely a byproduct of kids taking all our focus and the different ways we dealt with that. Spouse was deeply, deeply remorseful and did a ton of work and still lists it as his biggest regret in life. I’m not sure we would have addressed our issues and just kept chugging along growing more dissatisfied if the infidelity hadn’t cracked everything wide open. I would never want anyone to go through that because it is absolutely brutal, but we have a beautiful family and are very happy and I’m glad I ultimately didn’t leave. Of it happens again, I would leave and that is known as well as ways to communicate clearly if one of us is unhappy.

I know many marriages where there is no known cheating that are absolutely miserable and they basically live their own lives at empty nest. And many of these are the ones that judge others for their choices about staying in a happy marriage with great compatibility that happened to have infidelity at some point. There is a lot of harsh judgement for spouses that choose to stay. I saw an interview when Beyonce was discussing this with another celeb who had also chosen to work on the marriage. It's 2022, there is choice and lots of options. And nobody knows what goes on in anyone else's marriage. IT's like the 'victims' are 'revictimized' by public opinion and that doesn't even include the 'she must have not been putting or been a nag' or all the other BS they like to lay the blame on women for...and most often from other women!

You don't know if there is cheating or if there are other abuses going on. This would be the business set up which can be done if there isn't a lot of further abuse.

True. But I'd take the happier, compatible intimate couple that went through infidelity than the business like ones that can't stand each other and have nothing in common any day! Of course the former with zero infidelity is the dream, but with cheating rates reported as up to 60% on some surveys it's less realistic in a 50+year marriage.

I am in a sexless, roommate type marriage but we are amicable and I would trade it for a marriage that saw infidelity but worked through it and had passion again.

Cheating is only one of many ways you can hurt a marriage. Being rendered sexless is way worse in my opinion

I agree. Eventually, I left. A marriage that does not feel like a marriage at all and has no physical affection or love or respect is way worse than cheating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people are only as loyal as their options. The reason why most of people on here leave is because they can’t afford to get a divorce. One of the reasons why UMC people have low divorce rates is because if they do divorce there lifestyle takes a hit. Especially for women who are stay at home moms. They won’t be able to afford the neighborhood they live in on their income alone.

Again, people are only as loyal as their options.

Speak for yourself.

Loyalty is a prosocial value upon which the fabric of society is built. It's a survival instinct to want to remain on good terms with our tribe. Many people have strong values and don't operate simply on whim and self-interest. Of course, there are those that do (you, apparently), but they're at the far end of the bell curve.

What a BS about loyalty ! The reason why cheaters lead double life is because it allows them to take advantage over both spouse and AP. People who step over dead bodies to get ahead in life usually do succeed, unfortunately. Because others operate by rules and they take advantage of these rules. That’s the reality.

I don't see any value in "getting ahead" if I don't have true bonds with others. To me, getting ahead is being a good person who loves and is loved. People who take advantage may have material success, but not the kind that really counts.

Thats you. But men don't think like that. They are able to develop and break bonds way faster than women. IMHO. The advantage of cheating is obvious: he's able to plan his life way ahead without the wife or kids in the picture, secure a new partner that he like while stringing the wife along for the sake of kids care, image, finances etc. When time comes he strikes and leaves at the top of real estate market, at the top of his earning capacity, with a new partner he sexually enjoys, gets rid of kids and is in his narcissic mind fully set for retirement. And what's worse, everyone around would think that it must the the exW who really got on his nerves, as that's how it would be presented. So he would retain the same friends circle, the same home and the exW who had no clue would be all f...d up

The same with jobs: these people tend to dump business partners, steal equity from companies, change jobs often to climb up etc.

I do think that living with a cheating spouse is very dangerous for your own well being, in a sense that if you don't know about it you are not able to plan accordingly for a future single life. I would have done different financial and child rearing decisions if I knew about a prolonged cheating behind my back

Of course when it's an open marriage and the wife told him she didn't care it's a different story. But as you an see from PPs, they stay primarily for financial reasons not "loyalty"

Ha. Men don't have exit affairs like that. The women they cheat with are not ones they marry 98% of the time. Once their wife leaves them or refuses to reconcile they lick their wounds and then go on a screwing/dating spree and most will say they would never marry a cheater, i.e., the OW. They don't trust her, nor do they think she's 'marriage material'. They aren't lining up a new partner during marriage because they don't need someone to support them. Their affairs tend to be about sex, not love. They can throw her under the bus without a second thought when the chips are down.

You're wrong: they absolutely cheat like that. Maybe the indeed end up not marrying AP but in terms of timing their exit from marriage cheaters do a way better job than their spouses. That's the main reason to cheat: taking economic advantage of the wife, time his exit and yet maintain his reputation. Many indeed remain single after divorce or remarry to a different partner. But men divorce when they are on top financially, when it's a man's initiated divorce

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people are only as loyal as their options. The reason why most of people on here leave is because they can’t afford to get a divorce. One of the reasons why UMC people have low divorce rates is because if they do divorce there lifestyle takes a hit. Especially for women who are stay at home moms. They won’t be able to afford the neighborhood they live in on their income alone.

Again, people are only as loyal as their options.

Speak for yourself.

Loyalty is a prosocial value upon which the fabric of society is built. It's a survival instinct to want to remain on good terms with our tribe. Many people have strong values and don't operate simply on whim and self-interest. Of course, there are those that do (you, apparently), but they're at the far end of the bell curve.

What a BS about loyalty ! The reason why cheaters lead double life is because it allows them to take advantage over both spouse and AP. People who step over dead bodies to get ahead in life usually do succeed, unfortunately. Because others operate by rules and they take advantage of these rules. That’s the reality.

I don't see any value in "getting ahead" if I don't have true bonds with others. To me, getting ahead is being a good person who loves and is loved. People who take advantage may have material success, but not the kind that really counts.

Thats you. But men don't think like that. They are able to develop and break bonds way faster than women. IMHO. The advantage of cheating is obvious: he's able to plan his life way ahead without the wife or kids in the picture, secure a new partner that he like while stringing the wife along for the sake of kids care, image, finances etc. When time comes he strikes and leaves at the top of real estate market, at the top of his earning capacity, with a new partner he sexually enjoys, gets rid of kids and is in his narcissic mind fully set for retirement. And what's worse, everyone around would think that it must the the exW who really got on his nerves, as that's how it would be presented. So he would retain the same friends circle, the same home and the exW who had no clue would be all f...d up

The same with jobs: these people tend to dump business partners, steal equity from companies, change jobs often to climb up etc.

I do think that living with a cheating spouse is very dangerous for your own well being, in a sense that if you don't know about it you are not able to plan accordingly for a future single life. I would have done different financial and child rearing decisions if I knew about a prolonged cheating behind my back

Of course when it's an open marriage and the wife told him she didn't care it's a different story. But as you an see from PPs, they stay primarily for financial reasons not "loyalty"

Ha. Men don't have exit affairs like that. The women they cheat with are not ones they marry 98% of the time. Once their wife leaves them or refuses to reconcile they lick their wounds and then go on a screwing/dating spree and most will say they would never marry a cheater, i.e., the OW. They don't trust her, nor do they think she's 'marriage material'. They aren't lining up a new partner during marriage because they don't need someone to support them. Their affairs tend to be about sex, not love. They can throw her under the bus without a second thought when the chips are down.

You're wrong: they absolutely cheat like that. Maybe the indeed end up not marrying AP but in terms of timing their exit from marriage cheaters do a way better job than their spouses. That's the main reason to cheat: taking economic advantage of the wife, time his exit and yet maintain his reputation. Many indeed remain single after divorce or remarry to a different partner. But men divorce when they are on top financially, when it's a man's initiated divorce

Men who are on top financially are going to pay a lot of child support and alimony. Being well off financially is often a deterrent, not a catalyst, for divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are quite a few who come out of it with a much better marriage. I stayed and we are very happy. We always had an active sex life and still do. I guess the type of cheating matters, the circumstances and the quality/love/happiness of the marriage prior to cheating. We lost ourselves in the kid heavy years and both carried some unexpressed resentment had communication issues—it was largely a byproduct of kids taking all our focus and the different ways we dealt with that. Spouse was deeply, deeply remorseful and did a ton of work and still lists it as his biggest regret in life. I’m not sure we would have addressed our issues and just kept chugging along growing more dissatisfied if the infidelity hadn’t cracked everything wide open. I would never want anyone to go through that because it is absolutely brutal, but we have a beautiful family and are very happy and I’m glad I ultimately didn’t leave. Of it happens again, I would leave and that is known as well as ways to communicate clearly if one of us is unhappy.

I know many marriages where there is no known cheating that are absolutely miserable and they basically live their own lives at empty nest. And many of these are the ones that judge others for their choices about staying in a happy marriage with great compatibility that happened to have infidelity at some point. There is a lot of harsh judgement for spouses that choose to stay. I saw an interview when Beyonce was discussing this with another celeb who had also chosen to work on the marriage. It's 2022, there is choice and lots of options. And nobody knows what goes on in anyone else's marriage. IT's like the 'victims' are 'revictimized' by public opinion and that doesn't even include the 'she must have not been putting or been a nag' or all the other BS they like to lay the blame on women for...and most often from other women!

You don't know if there is cheating or if there are other abuses going on. This would be the business set up which can be done if there isn't a lot of further abuse.

True. But I'd take the happier, compatible intimate couple that went through infidelity than the business like ones that can't stand each other and have nothing in common any day! Of course the former with zero infidelity is the dream, but with cheating rates reported as up to 60% on some surveys it's less realistic in a 50+year marriage.

I am in a sexless, roommate type marriage but we are amicable and I would trade it for a marriage that saw infidelity but worked through it and had passion again.

Cheating is only one of many ways you can hurt a marriage. Being rendered sexless is way worse in my opinion

I was also in a mostly sexless roommate marriage that was amicable. We had grown apart and were living separate lives but I was sad, and deep down always hoped something would change. After about 10 years of this way of life, he confessed he had had an affair a couple of years back but had ended it a while ago. I was devastated and he seemed genuinely surprised I cared that much. I felt so betrayed even though our marriage had been broken. As horrible as this was, it brought us to a point where everything was out in the open and we really communicated for the first time in a decade. There were many painful discussions, but we came to remember the things we loved about each other in the first place. Passion returned and we now have the relationship I was missing. The infidelity will always hurt, and it is a challenge for me to put those thoughts aside sometimes. But without that infidelity, we would have continued on the roommate path that neither of us wanted. While my initial instinct was to kick him out when I found out about the affair, I am glad that I gave myself time to process it and work through some very complicated feelings

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people are only as loyal as their options. The reason why most of people on here leave is because they can’t afford to get a divorce. One of the reasons why UMC people have low divorce rates is because if they do divorce there lifestyle takes a hit. Especially for women who are stay at home moms. They won’t be able to afford the neighborhood they live in on their income alone.

Again, people are only as loyal as their options.

Speak for yourself.

Loyalty is a prosocial value upon which the fabric of society is built. It's a survival instinct to want to remain on good terms with our tribe. Many people have strong values and don't operate simply on whim and self-interest. Of course, there are those that do (you, apparently), but they're at the far end of the bell curve.

What a BS about loyalty ! The reason why cheaters lead double life is because it allows them to take advantage over both spouse and AP. People who step over dead bodies to get ahead in life usually do succeed, unfortunately. Because others operate by rules and they take advantage of these rules. That’s the reality.

I don't see any value in "getting ahead" if I don't have true bonds with others. To me, getting ahead is being a good person who loves and is loved. People who take advantage may have material success, but not the kind that really counts.

Thats you. But men don't think like that. They are able to develop and break bonds way faster than women. IMHO. The advantage of cheating is obvious: he's able to plan his life way ahead without the wife or kids in the picture, secure a new partner that he like while stringing the wife along for the sake of kids care, image, finances etc. When time comes he strikes and leaves at the top of real estate market, at the top of his earning capacity, with a new partner he sexually enjoys, gets rid of kids and is in his narcissic mind fully set for retirement. And what's worse, everyone around would think that it must the the exW who really got on his nerves, as that's how it would be presented. So he would retain the same friends circle, the same home and the exW who had no clue would be all f...d up

The same with jobs: these people tend to dump business partners, steal equity from companies, change jobs often to climb up etc.

I do think that living with a cheating spouse is very dangerous for your own well being, in a sense that if you don't know about it you are not able to plan accordingly for a future single life. I would have done different financial and child rearing decisions if I knew about a prolonged cheating behind my back

Of course when it's an open marriage and the wife told him she didn't care it's a different story. But as you an see from PPs, they stay primarily for financial reasons not "loyalty"

Ha. Men don't have exit affairs like that. The women they cheat with are not ones they marry 98% of the time. Once their wife leaves them or refuses to reconcile they lick their wounds and then go on a screwing/dating spree and most will say they would never marry a cheater, i.e., the OW. They don't trust her, nor do they think she's 'marriage material'. They aren't lining up a new partner during marriage because they don't need someone to support them. Their affairs tend to be about sex, not love. They can throw her under the bus without a second thought when the chips are down.

You're wrong: they absolutely cheat like that. Maybe the indeed end up not marrying AP but in terms of timing their exit from marriage cheaters do a way better job than their spouses. That's the main reason to cheat: taking economic advantage of the wife, time his exit and yet maintain his reputation. Many indeed remain single after divorce or remarry to a different partner. But men divorce when they are on top financially, when it's a man's initiated divorce

Men who are on top financially are going to pay a lot of child support and alimony. Being well off financially is often a deterrent, not a catalyst, for divorce.

You are totally wrong: the CS and alimony they end up paying is well less than depositing their full paycheck to a joint account. And it's a way better deal to divorce and split assets for any man who makes over 500k and just enjoy life. of course if we are talking about regular federal workers that's a different story

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people are only as loyal as their options. The reason why most of people on here leave is because they can’t afford to get a divorce. One of the reasons why UMC people have low divorce rates is because if they do divorce there lifestyle takes a hit. Especially for women who are stay at home moms. They won’t be able to afford the neighborhood they live in on their income alone.

Again, people are only as loyal as their options.

Speak for yourself.

Loyalty is a prosocial value upon which the fabric of society is built. It's a survival instinct to want to remain on good terms with our tribe. Many people have strong values and don't operate simply on whim and self-interest. Of course, there are those that do (you, apparently), but they're at the far end of the bell curve.

What a BS about loyalty ! The reason why cheaters lead double life is because it allows them to take advantage over both spouse and AP. People who step over dead bodies to get ahead in life usually do succeed, unfortunately. Because others operate by rules and they take advantage of these rules. That’s the reality.

I don't see any value in "getting ahead" if I don't have true bonds with others. To me, getting ahead is being a good person who loves and is loved. People who take advantage may have material success, but not the kind that really counts.

Thats you. But men don't think like that. They are able to develop and break bonds way faster than women. IMHO. The advantage of cheating is obvious: he's able to plan his life way ahead without the wife or kids in the picture, secure a new partner that he like while stringing the wife along for the sake of kids care, image, finances etc. When time comes he strikes and leaves at the top of real estate market, at the top of his earning capacity, with a new partner he sexually enjoys, gets rid of kids and is in his narcissic mind fully set for retirement. And what's worse, everyone around would think that it must the the exW who really got on his nerves, as that's how it would be presented. So he would retain the same friends circle, the same home and the exW who had no clue would be all f...d up

The same with jobs: these people tend to dump business partners, steal equity from companies, change jobs often to climb up etc.

I do think that living with a cheating spouse is very dangerous for your own well being, in a sense that if you don't know about it you are not able to plan accordingly for a future single life. I would have done different financial and child rearing decisions if I knew about a prolonged cheating behind my back

Of course when it's an open marriage and the wife told him she didn't care it's a different story. But as you an see from PPs, they stay primarily for financial reasons not "loyalty"

Ha. Men don't have exit affairs like that. The women they cheat with are not ones they marry 98% of the time. Once their wife leaves them or refuses to reconcile they lick their wounds and then go on a screwing/dating spree and most will say they would never marry a cheater, i.e., the OW. They don't trust her, nor do they think she's 'marriage material'. They aren't lining up a new partner during marriage because they don't need someone to support them. Their affairs tend to be about sex, not love. They can throw her under the bus without a second thought when the chips are down.

You're wrong: they absolutely cheat like that. Maybe the indeed end up not marrying AP but in terms of timing their exit from marriage cheaters do a way better job than their spouses. That's the main reason to cheat: taking economic advantage of the wife, time his exit and yet maintain his reputation. Many indeed remain single after divorce or remarry to a different partner. But men divorce when they are on top financially, when it's a man's initiated divorce

Men who are on top financially are going to pay a lot of child support and alimony. Being well off financially is often a deterrent, not a catalyst, for divorce.

You are totally wrong: the CS and alimony they end up paying is well less than depositing their full paycheck to a joint account. And it's a way better deal to divorce and split assets for any man who makes over 500k and just enjoy life. of course if we are talking about regular federal workers that's a different story

OP, what makes your points less than salient is your absolutism. I said "often." You keep making declarative statements that, if a person can find one example to the contrary, are proved false.

For example, you've completely neglected to factor in maintaining two households versus one. So your statement is just silly, as well as your blind confidence in your always being right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I always thought it was wrong how women hated Hilary Clinton for staying with Bill after cheating in a very public way. I thought feminism meant women had the *choice* to stay or go, and either choice was valid depending on a variety of factors—including what the woman wanted.

Sometimes the indiscretion is simply that: a mistake. Not everyone is a serial cheater.

If both parties still love each other and want a future together, there’s hope. And staying together to rebuild the marriage will ultimately make life easier: preserve wealth, preserve family unit.

I’ve never cheated or been cheated on, but I’ve watched marriages implode. Some have cheated in rather public ways insofar as the neighbors know about it. Some divorced; it seemed hard for the party that didn’t quickly find a new partner. Some worked through it; they seem happy.

I imagine I would feel miserable watching my partner with a new mate. I would hate watching my kids go off with them on vacations. I’d feel lonely and jealous. I definitely would not feel comfortable dating online and sleeping with singles who could have a STD. I definitely don’t want to worry about money or aging solo. Lots of reasons to stay married. Or at least try.

I don’t know why you think STDs are rampant with dating because my ex-husband gave me an STD and I found out right after we got married. Avoiding STDs is possible and not that hard I mean everybody could risk HPV but that’s not bad because it’s treatable if it’s even caught and other things just get tested and use a condom.

While I never suggested STDs are rampant in the dating pool, it’s still something I would worry about if I were dating. I’ve been with my husband for decades and we are monogamous, so it’s not something I need to worry about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:people are only as loyal as their options. The reason why most of people on here leave is because they can’t afford to get a divorce. One of the reasons why UMC people have low divorce rates is because if they do divorce there lifestyle takes a hit. Especially for women who are stay at home moms. They won’t be able to afford the neighborhood they live in on their income alone.

Again, people are only as loyal as their options.

Speak for yourself.

Loyalty is a prosocial value upon which the fabric of society is built. It's a survival instinct to want to remain on good terms with our tribe. Many people have strong values and don't operate simply on whim and self-interest. Of course, there are those that do (you, apparently), but they're at the far end of the bell curve.

What a BS about loyalty ! The reason why cheaters lead double life is because it allows them to take advantage over both spouse and AP. People who step over dead bodies to get ahead in life usually do succeed, unfortunately. Because others operate by rules and they take advantage of these rules. That’s the reality.

I don't see any value in "getting ahead" if I don't have true bonds with others. To me, getting ahead is being a good person who loves and is loved. People who take advantage may have material success, but not the kind that really counts.

Thats you. But men don't think like that. They are able to develop and break bonds way faster than women. IMHO. The advantage of cheating is obvious: he's able to plan his life way ahead without the wife or kids in the picture, secure a new partner that he like while stringing the wife along for the sake of kids care, image, finances etc. When time comes he strikes and leaves at the top of real estate market, at the top of his earning capacity, with a new partner he sexually enjoys, gets rid of kids and is in his narcissic mind fully set for retirement. And what's worse, everyone around would think that it must the the exW who really got on his nerves, as that's how it would be presented. So he would retain the same friends circle, the same home and the exW who had no clue would be all f...d up

The same with jobs: these people tend to dump business partners, steal equity from companies, change jobs often to climb up etc.

I do think that living with a cheating spouse is very dangerous for your own well being, in a sense that if you don't know about it you are not able to plan accordingly for a future single life. I would have done different financial and child rearing decisions if I knew about a prolonged cheating behind my back

Of course when it's an open marriage and the wife told him she didn't care it's a different story. But as you an see from PPs, they stay primarily for financial reasons not "loyalty"

Ha. Men don't have exit affairs like that. The women they cheat with are not ones they marry 98% of the time. Once their wife leaves them or refuses to reconcile they lick their wounds and then go on a screwing/dating spree and most will say they would never marry a cheater, i.e., the OW. They don't trust her, nor do they think she's 'marriage material'. They aren't lining up a new partner during marriage because they don't need someone to support them. Their affairs tend to be about sex, not love. They can throw her under the bus without a second thought when the chips are down.

You're wrong: they absolutely cheat like that. Maybe the indeed end up not marrying AP but in terms of timing their exit from marriage cheaters do a way better job than their spouses. That's the main reason to cheat: taking economic advantage of the wife, time his exit and yet maintain his reputation. Many indeed remain single after divorce or remarry to a different partner. But men divorce when they are on top financially, when it's a man's initiated divorce

Men who are on top financially are going to pay a lot of child support and alimony. Being well off financially is often a deterrent, not a catalyst, for divorce.

You are totally wrong: the CS and alimony they end up paying is well less than depositing their full paycheck to a joint account. And it's a way better deal to divorce and split assets for any man who makes over 500k and just enjoy life. of course if we are talking about regular federal workers that's a different story

OP, what makes your points less than salient is your absolutism. I said "often." You keep making declarative statements that, if a person can find one example to the contrary, are proved false.

For example, you've completely neglected to factor in maintaining two households versus one. So your statement is just silly, as well as your blind confidence in your always being right.

This burden of maintaining a separate household falls mostly on a lower paid spouse after divorce/a woman. My example when he made 400K and I made 200K is very simple. Of course it was economically better off for me when my exH was depositing 400K and I was depositing 200K to joint account (600K in total). Let's say, we spent 200K in annual expenses for one household, so we are saving 400K for 2 persons/200K each in savings/assets, right?

He retained that same house and spends now the same 200K on his household or even less as he pays $1300 CS to me instead of spending $4000 in unlimited child expenses when married. He still has 200K left for himself. But I have a smaller house, and my total annual income is now 200K plus his $1300/month CS. I am left with 70K annual savings after all my expenses. My future savings rate, my lifestyle changed a lot, whereby his didn't at all.

There is a lot of research showing that burden of divorce is always shifted to lower paid spouse. Alimony and CS would never make up for the lost lifestyle. Thus women tend to tolerate adultery and other forms of spousal abuse as long as it's tolerable

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:people are only as loyal as their options. The reason why most of people on here leave is because they can’t afford to get a divorce. One of the reasons why UMC people have low divorce rates is because if they do divorce there lifestyle takes a hit. Especially for women who are stay at home moms. They won’t be able to afford the neighborhood they live in on their income alone.

Again, people are only as loyal as their options.

Speak for yourself.

Loyalty is a prosocial value upon which the fabric of society is built. It's a survival instinct to want to remain on good terms with our tribe. Many people have strong values and don't operate simply on whim and self-interest. Of course, there are those that do (you, apparently), but they're at the far end of the bell curve.

What a BS about loyalty ! The reason why cheaters lead double life is because it allows them to take advantage over both spouse and AP. People who step over dead bodies to get ahead in life usually do succeed, unfortunately. Because others operate by rules and they take advantage of these rules. That’s the reality.

I don't see any value in "getting ahead" if I don't have true bonds with others. To me, getting ahead is being a good person who loves and is loved. People who take advantage may have material success, but not the kind that really counts.

Thats you. But men don't think like that. They are able to develop and break bonds way faster than women. IMHO. The advantage of cheating is obvious: he's able to plan his life way ahead without the wife or kids in the picture, secure a new partner that he like while stringing the wife along for the sake of kids care, image, finances etc. When time comes he strikes and leaves at the top of real estate market, at the top of his earning capacity, with a new partner he sexually enjoys, gets rid of kids and is in his narcissic mind fully set for retirement. And what's worse, everyone around would think that it must the the exW who really got on his nerves, as that's how it would be presented. So he would retain the same friends circle, the same home and the exW who had no clue would be all f...d up

The same with jobs: these people tend to dump business partners, steal equity from companies, change jobs often to climb up etc.

I do think that living with a cheating spouse is very dangerous for your own well being, in a sense that if you don't know about it you are not able to plan accordingly for a future single life. I would have done different financial and child rearing decisions if I knew about a prolonged cheating behind my back

Of course when it's an open marriage and the wife told him she didn't care it's a different story. But as you an see from PPs, they stay primarily for financial reasons not "loyalty"

Ha. Men don't have exit affairs like that. The women they cheat with are not ones they marry 98% of the time. Once their wife leaves them or refuses to reconcile they lick their wounds and then go on a screwing/dating spree and most will say they would never marry a cheater, i.e., the OW. They don't trust her, nor do they think she's 'marriage material'. They aren't lining up a new partner during marriage because they don't need someone to support them. Their affairs tend to be about sex, not love. They can throw her under the bus without a second thought when the chips are down.

You're wrong: they absolutely cheat like that. Maybe the indeed end up not marrying AP but in terms of timing their exit from marriage cheaters do a way better job than their spouses. That's the main reason to cheat: taking economic advantage of the wife, time his exit and yet maintain his reputation. Many indeed remain single after divorce or remarry to a different partner. But men divorce when they are on top financially, when it's a man's initiated divorce

Men who are on top financially are going to pay a lot of child support and alimony. Being well off financially is often a deterrent, not a catalyst, for divorce.

You are totally wrong: the CS and alimony they end up paying is well less than depositing their full paycheck to a joint account. And it's a way better deal to divorce and split assets for any man who makes over 500k and just enjoy life. of course if we are talking about regular federal workers that's a different story

OP, what makes your points less than salient is your absolutism. I said "often." You keep making declarative statements that, if a person can find one example to the contrary, are proved false.

For example, you've completely neglected to factor in maintaining two households versus one. So your statement is just silly, as well as your blind confidence in your always being right.

This burden of maintaining a separate household falls mostly on a lower paid spouse after divorce/a woman. My example when he made 400K and I made 200K is very simple. Of course it was economically better off for me when my exH was depositing 400K and I was depositing 200K to joint account (600K in total). Let's say, we spent 200K in annual expenses for one household, so we are saving 400K for 2 persons/200K each in savings/assets, right?

He retained that same house and spends now the same 200K on his household or even less as he pays $1300 CS to me instead of spending $4000 in unlimited child expenses when married. He still has 200K left for himself. But I have a smaller house, and my total annual income is now 200K plus his $1300/month CS. I am left with 70K annual savings after all my expenses. My future savings rate, my lifestyle changed a lot, whereby his didn't at all.

There is a lot of research showing that burden of divorce is always shifted to lower paid spouse. Alimony and CS would never make up for the lost lifestyle. Thus women tend to tolerate adultery and other forms of spousal abuse as long as it's tolerable

Oh, forgot to conclude that in case of very high paid husbands he loses near zero from maintaining a separate household, thus in my estimates it's better off economically to divorce and save at higher rate for any man who makes $300k+ in DC area. If he wants to dump his family of course.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:people are only as loyal as their options. The reason why most of people on here leave is because they can’t afford to get a divorce. One of the reasons why UMC people have low divorce rates is because if they do divorce there lifestyle takes a hit. Especially for women who are stay at home moms. They won’t be able to afford the neighborhood they live in on their income alone.

Again, people are only as loyal as their options.

Speak for yourself.

Loyalty is a prosocial value upon which the fabric of society is built. It's a survival instinct to want to remain on good terms with our tribe. Many people have strong values and don't operate simply on whim and self-interest. Of course, there are those that do (you, apparently), but they're at the far end of the bell curve.

Traditionally marital loyalty for men did not necessarily extend to sexual loyalty. "Wife" is primarily a status and a title, not necessarily a marker for permanent and sole sex partner. Men can and do sleep with other women - the wife is the public partner, co-owner of assets, mother of children, member of family. In a man's mind, these things are not threatened by semisecret sex with others because he does not plan to elevate them to the status of a wife.

Are you talking about European culture in the last millennium? Obviously this is the sort of thing that varies all over the world.

This is a traditional setup all over the world. Asia, Arab world, Europe and here. It has never changed that men see their wife and other women they may screw as completely separate entities.

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Anonymous wrote:There are quite a few who come out of it with a much better marriage. I stayed and we are very happy. We always had an active sex life and still do. I guess the type of cheating matters, the circumstances and the quality/love/happiness of the marriage prior to cheating. We lost ourselves in the kid heavy years and both carried some unexpressed resentment had communication issues—it was largely a byproduct of kids taking all our focus and the different ways we dealt with that. Spouse was deeply, deeply remorseful and did a ton of work and still lists it as his biggest regret in life. I’m not sure we would have addressed our issues and just kept chugging along growing more dissatisfied if the infidelity hadn’t cracked everything wide open. I would never want anyone to go through that because it is absolutely brutal, but we have a beautiful family and are very happy and I’m glad I ultimately didn’t leave. Of it happens again, I would leave and that is known as well as ways to communicate clearly if one of us is unhappy.

I know many marriages where there is no known cheating that are absolutely miserable and they basically live their own lives at empty nest. And many of these are the ones that judge others for their choices about staying in a happy marriage with great compatibility that happened to have infidelity at some point. There is a lot of harsh judgement for spouses that choose to stay. I saw an interview when Beyonce was discussing this with another celeb who had also chosen to work on the marriage. It's 2022, there is choice and lots of options. And nobody knows what goes on in anyone else's marriage. IT's like the 'victims' are 'revictimized' by public opinion and that doesn't even include the 'she must have not been putting or been a nag' or all the other BS they like to lay the blame on women for...and most often from other women!

You don't know if there is cheating or if there are other abuses going on. This would be the business set up which can be done if there isn't a lot of further abuse.

True. But I'd take the happier, compatible intimate couple that went through infidelity than the business like ones that can't stand each other and have nothing in common any day! Of course the former with zero infidelity is the dream, but with cheating rates reported as up to 60% on some surveys it's less realistic in a 50+year marriage.

I am in a sexless, roommate type marriage but we are amicable and I would trade it for a marriage that saw infidelity but worked through it and had passion again.

Cheating is only one of many ways you can hurt a marriage. Being rendered sexless is way worse in my opinion

I was also in a mostly sexless roommate marriage that was amicable. We had grown apart and were living separate lives but I was sad, and deep down always hoped something would change. After about 10 years of this way of life, he confessed he had had an affair a couple of years back but had ended it a while ago. I was devastated and he seemed genuinely surprised I cared that much. I felt so betrayed even though our marriage had been broken. As horrible as this was, it brought us to a point where everything was out in the open and we really communicated for the first time in a decade. There were many painful discussions, but we came to remember the things we loved about each other in the first place. Passion returned and we now have the relationship I was missing. The infidelity will always hurt, and it is a challenge for me to put those thoughts aside sometimes. But without that infidelity, we would have continued on the roommate path that neither of us wanted. While my initial instinct was to kick him out when I found out about the affair, I am glad that I gave myself time to process it and work through some very complicated feelings

It never ceases to amaze me just how many "sexless room mates" stories there are .... followed by her being "devastated" when she finds out he has been cheating. I mean hello?!? Did you just arrive here on planet earth? Pro tip: if he isn't having sex with you, he is definitely getting it elsewhere. Most married men do not even consider this "cheating" when the marriage is basically sexless. It is just survival, his way of saving the marriage.

[Anonymous]

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Former betrayed wife who has reconciled here . . .

You're right that couple's therapy is a waste at this point. They have to both be committed and the cheater needs to be willing to do the heavy lifting.

It's very natural for your sibling to want to secure her husband, so to speak. As in, it's an actual primal instinct designed to make sure the young you've had with your mate aren't abandoned. One of the many reasons that cheating sucks is that is not only have you been cheated on, but now your partner is sitting there all high and mighty with two potential partners to choose from, while you've maybe got one or, depending on what he decides, zero. It's natural to want to flip that around and become the person with the choice(s) again.

But you have to live in reality. A relationship is a two way street and you can't force someone, even your spouse, to want to be with you. And in fact, doing the "pick me dance" just makes you LESS appealing in the cheater's eyes. There are many reasons why it's best to detach and start moving forward as though the marriage can't be saved. It may wake up the cheater and they'll put in their best effort to fixing things. Or it may not, in which case you've already started focusing on yourself. There's no downside to it. It's just hard to convince your primal urges to take a back seat.

It sounds like you sympathize with your BIL, probably based on seeing how your sibling acted and treated him all these years. Just remember that he had agency to speak up, move out, lay down boundaries, etc. An affair is NOT an understandable or rational response to things not being great in a marriage. Your sibling has been traumatized by his actions and you should focus on supporting her. Part of that is supporting her in becoming a healthy person who treats other people well (and that includes not trying to force an unwilling cheater to reconcile with you). But your angle needs to be because she deserves someone who isn't running in the opposite direction from her, not that she's paying for prior crimes.

To answer your original question, my husband was in "the fog" for a few days at most. He claimed it was just an emotional affair, which gave him cover to act indignant and like I was making a big deal over nothing. As the days passed and I was like, "Um, you do actually need to unfriend her" and I required he let me see his phone (and then found out it was a physical affair), he suddenly realized he was in deep sh*t. Meanwhile I had gone from somewhat understanding to outraged. So over the course of about two weeks he went from indignant and obnoxious to terrified and scrambling. But it still took a long time (better part of a year) for him to get into therapy and get past his most basic defenses against shame. In the meantime, at least he was really invested in saving the marriage and following me around like a sad puppy.

Thank you so much for your message. My sibling is on her way to visit me now. I will try my best to be there for her to start whatever the healing process. Again, thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I’m the poster above. My situation was different because my husband had ended the affair already and confessed the day after. He wasn’t in a fog or conflicted. And, it still was awful. I immediately kicked him out for 2 weeks. I was in such shock and also very angry. I didn’t want to have a confrontation in front of our kids. He was very remorseful and full of regret. Infidelity/dishonesty was a deal breaker for me. I refused couples therapy. He did his work and kept showing up and being transparent and took on the bulk of the work on the home front which he still does years later. We had a very happy family and, unlike what you describe with your sibling, we always got along really well and we’re best friends. I’m not sure if I had a spouse that was in a fog or conflicted about what he wanted if I would have reconciled. It was about 6 months before I agreed to couples therapy. Things are really good now, but I still have triggers at times. He does everything possible to help avoid them. I really think it was a midlife/personal crisis which also gives me more confidence about the future, that it isn’t an ongoing character flaw. I have very strong emotions about cheating and always did. It’s not okay to ever do it.

Your sister is going through serious trauma right now and she didn’t deserve to be cheated on no matter what you think. You have no idea what went on in their home when you were not there to witness it. Often, the charming guy in public is not the same behind closed doors. People would surprise you. Be there for your sibling without judgement to support her and help in anyway you can. I’m sure she’s not sleeping and barely functioning at this point.

To the poster above, thank you. She is not sleeping well and lost significant weight by this time. Like u said, I'll try to help her in anyway I can. Again, thank you.