DH WFH is ruining our marriage (sorry, venting post)

[Anonymous]

Can you put a desk in your bedroom and a lock on the inside of the bedroom door?

[Anonymous]

Wow--may I borrow your husband? Mine works from home-has been the entire pandemic--and literally does absolutely nothing. at least when he was in the office, he could blame it on commuting and being at the office all day. now he just clutters up our counters with his crap and leaves stuff around without cleaning it up, wanders out of his office and asks what the kids are having for dinner/what activities do they/what is going on, as if he's a boarding guest in this house. what i wouldn't give for someone to take some initiative and actually DO SOMETHING

[Anonymous]

Why is your DH entitled to the home office you used for years?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: He took over the home office you were using to work? NO! Kick is a$$ out of there and back to the office. Make sure he knows, KNOWS that 1) he's impacting your ability to work and contribute to the house (threaten to quit if needed) and 2) That this was your space that he co-opted. Not cool. You're a saint to have put up with it as long as you have. Tell him this weekends project is to move his sh$t out of your office because you need the space. Since he has an office to go to and you don't, this is how it needs to be.

This would be an absolute deal breaker for me. It's one thing if no one has a choice and you make do as best you can, but he does have a choice. I'd die on this hill, and I'm normally a pretty chill person.

Yes, you are right. Another reason I'm so bitter. He took over my home office during covid when I was laid off. Moved all his stuff in, and now I work in the kitchen, dining room, bedroom if the kids are home, etc etc. I'm on the phone/zooms during the day, so this isn't exactly an easy shift. He has a freaking office to go to and I don't. All of this is boiling in me. I celebrate when he has rare occasional travel, a round of golf in the afternoon, etc.

The obvious step is that you need to move him out of the home office. Reclaim the space. With a door lock. Explain that you need the uninterrupted time.

He will either figure out that he prefers to return to the office or make another space, but it’s not your problem. “Now that you have your office back I realized it’s not working for me to have scattered spaces. I am going to move back into the office, and you can decide whether you’ll use your work office or another space in the house.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does he know which specific behaviors annoy you? Sitting and criticizing while not helping? Intervening when the kids scream when you'd usually ignore, criticize screen time use? Or just hanging around and making conversation?

If you could address the critical behaviors (if any) and the lack of help, could it be better? Do you like spending time with him in general?

New poster. This PP has a good point, OP - how specific have you been with him about the behaviors causing you to feel crowded and "managed"? I'd script out what you want to say, being very specific (but not accusatory) and have a talk when things are calm; it's not during the work day for either of you; and the kids are not around and not likely to come in. A calm, controlled time. Bring some specific ideas to the table regarding solutions, too. If his office is back in person part of the time, does he have some choice to go work in the office, say, X days each week? Do you have an office you can go to Y days a week? (You said you've WFH a long time so I realize there may not be any office for you to go to.) I've read that We Work types of rented office spaces are begging for clients--can he or you find a deal on some space elsewhere at least part of the week? And most of all, can you and he maybe split some duties at home with an understanding of zero micromanagement by the other one?

But OP, there is a big red flag in your post that a talk like this won't resolve and it's a bigger marriage issue, possibly:

You say, "I've spoken with him about both of us needing space, but he's pretty adamant that it's too bad because he likes this arrangement."

He's adamant that "it's too bad"? As in, suck it up, buttercup? To his wife? That's...not a good relationship dynamic and I'm sure you know that already. If his attitude truly is "it's too bad" that you dare to have feelings about what is a big change to your day-to-day life, then you and he have communications issues that go beyond this issue--don't you? That attitude would indicate he's dismissive of your opinions, thoughts and feelings. You say good counselors are hard to find right now and that's so true, unfortunately, but I'd double down on finding one any way possible, if my DH were that level of dismissive.

If he really isn't as extreme as I'm picturing it above, though, start with the approach of being very specific about both the problem and some solutions.

OP here - wow, can I hire you?

You are right. I've voiced my concern multiple times, stating that this has been a major shift in our everyday life. Married couples are not meant to be together 24/7, space from each other is healthy, etc etc. He responds by saying, "that's too bad, I like the way it is". I've asked him to go into his office at least 2 days/week, he's gone in 5 times in the past year. I do not have an office to go to. I had a home office but was laid off during covid and he took over the office. He's nosy as hell, constantly asking me what I'm doing, etc. (He just popped in while I'm typing this asking what I'm doing)

His dismissive attitude is also what is making me dislike him. He doesn't care that I'm not happy. I told him I never would have married someone that worked from home all the time, but again "too bad, it is what it is".

Many people will read this and think, what is she complaining about, he's home to help, cook, pick up the kids, etc etc. Our kids are older now (12 and 15), and there is not a chance he would have worked from home when they were younger and I could have used his help more. Everybody is different, I was happy being married to someone who worked outside of the house while I took care of the house/kid duties.

OP, I'm the PP to whom you're responding. I'm so sorry he is being utterly self-centered about this, because that's what you're depicting -- self-centeredness.

Since you've voice your concerns more than ocne, I'd suggest you script out what you are going to put on the table as specific options (don't wing it or improvise in the moment, lay it out in writiting if only for yourself), then schedule a talk with him. No kids around or about to come in the door; not at a time when he's got somewhere else to be in half an hour etc. Use "When you do X, I feel Y" statements and then have your specifics ready.

"When you say 'that's too bad, I like it the way it is,' I hear instead that my job, and the space and quiet I need to DO my job well, do not matter to you.'" If he says that's not what he means, say that whatever his intentions are in his own mind, you are expressing what you are hearing, especially from word as dismissive as "that's too bad" (a very immature construction, by the way). He can say all day "That's not what I mean" but you are telling him the message the words send to you.

"When you took over my home office neither of us could have known how long that would last, but it has been X months. I realize you like it, but this is not about what I like or what you like. This is about what was going to be a short-term thing becoming permanent, and it is not working for ME even if you like it. Because we're supposed to be partners, this half of the partnership is not doing well, and 'too bad, I like it' is a very one-sided way to live. We need to come up with a solution that works for both of us, and this is what I propose specifically...."

Tell him that you cannot go on doing your job and satisfying your employer without (a) a dedicated space where you can shut the door and (b) uninterrupted work time, treated as if you were in an office. These are non-negotiables. Offer whatever you have come up with - maybe he goes to his office two days and week, uses the home office two days a week, and is a "rover" in the house one day a week. Or you get you get the home office full time and he becomes the "rover" in the house as YOU have been for so long. Or, is there ANY space you can convert to an office space for him, even a basement den or guest bedroom if there is one? He also needs to agree that between certain hours he does not interrupt you nor you him. say, from 9-1 you are each in your own space and you don't come into each others' spaces. Maybe meet up for lunch in the dining room a few days a week to break up the day and satisfy his odd need to chit-chat and look over your shoulder?

All this may be moot if he just digs in and refuses to make any changes but I'd be sure I clearly said, "I am asking you to go in to your office a minimum of X days each week. I do not have any option for working elsewhere and you know this, but you DO have that option, and I am asking you to choose X days to work in your office for the sake of our marriage." If he thinks "for the sake of our marriage" is too dramatic? Well, tell him yes, it's pretty dramatic to be togehter 24/7 in ways that are making you dislike and resent him, so....that's a marriage issue.

I also hope you can eventually land some couples counseling or therapy because his digging in with "too bad" is an awful trait in a relationship, but that's no news to you. I really hope that a firm, scheduled, "time to see the light, buddy" talk will push him to alter things, even if he doesn't "like" the change. This is not about what he likes or doesn't like. It's about his treating you like a full partner in the relationship and home, and like a professional who needs to get work done.

I think this is good advice. And if he won't budge after this I would force the office issue. Move his stuff out, put a lock on the door and go to work. He sounds self-centered and like he doesn't think you are serious.

[Anonymous]

Both parents WFH is very unhealthy, too much time together can and likely will, ruin a marriage. What will you talk about at dinner, what will be special when you go on vacation, have a date night, etc when you spend all day together?

This situation leads to zero excitement to spend time together. it's human nature to not want to be with the same person 24/7.. you likely sleep with your spouse, so even bedtime isn't relief.. this is bad.

He needs to be more understanding, and if he refuses, set an ultimatum.

[Anonymous]

I am sympathetic. My DH is much more respectful and we have good separate places to work but it still feels like he’s watching me all the time. And he really isn’t! It’s just not really ever being alone or having free reign of the house. It’s not his fault but he is going to go back to the office a couple days a week soon and I am excited. I wish I could go back too (half home and half at the office was GREAT for me before the pandemic). I am personally not a fan of being home quite this much so I’m sure that’s part of my issue.

I would definitely try to get a designated work space at home even if it’s not your old office. If he won’t give it back he needs to agree to you having a real space with separation from the rest of the house. And you have to really really ignore him if he’s interrupting you- I do a lot of complicated data analysis and it makes me nuts to have some one talking to me when I’m trying to focus.

Also, I am wondering if the issue with the cooking is that he feels justified in not doing anything else because he’s spending forever making these elaborate meals? My husband will occasionally do this with other chores and it feels nit picky but we have had the discussion that there are c things that need to be done and if you just do one and spend all day on it (like deciding you will spend allllll day researching every possible decision related to a new service contract or something like that) it means I have to do all the other things. And to me it is not worth the extra $2 per month we save. So there has to be some middle ground. Thankfully my DH is a reasonable guy and realized he used to hate it when his mom would do that growing up so we only have that conversation once every couple years. But I have a friend whose husband loves gardening and will basically only help out with gardening chores which means they have a beautiful yard but she pays every bill, does all inside chores and all tasks involving the kids. They eventually got a cleaner which helped.

Also, who does all the dishes for these elaborate meals? If it’s you stop that. Aside from 2 nights a week. I also love to cook but so not like washing pots so we eat simple meals pretty often.

[Anonymous]

I’m with you op. Absence makes the heart grow fonder, for sure.

[Anonymous]

I think the people who say working from home for both of them is amazing. Either are super codependent or are lying to themselves just so they can keep working from home.

I honestly think both people working from home is the kiss of death for a marriage because like others have said being with the same person 24/7 is just not healthy in the long term. There is literally nothing to talk about. Nothing new to discuss. Nothing exciting. There are no surprises or anticipation of seeing the person again. I think in some rare cases for each person has a lot of outside the house, hobbies and activities and interests this could possibly work ... So if my husband and I worked from home all day but he had golf for nights a week and I had book club three nights a week. I could see that this arrangement could perhaps stand the test of time because we would both have some alone time. Or if he traveled a lot for work or visited his parents a lot without me.
But just cooped up in a house all day together. Never having an ounce of alone time would kill me both mentally and physically

[Anonymous]

I know a lot of people who now hate their spouses, since they are working from home. It's a major life change shift that was thrust upon them. I know I never would have married someone who works from home. That's not my personality and I'm just not into it. Even lessen to someone who demands. We make that change when other options are available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the people who say working from home for both of them is amazing. Either are super codependent or are lying to themselves just so they can keep working from home.

I honestly think both people working from home is the kiss of death for a marriage because like others have said being with the same person 24/7 is just not healthy in the long term. There is literally nothing to talk about. Nothing new to discuss. Nothing exciting. There are no surprises or anticipation of seeing the person again. I think in some rare cases for each person has a lot of outside the house, hobbies and activities and interests this could possibly work ... So if my husband and I worked from home all day but he had golf for nights a week and I had book club three nights a week. I could see that this arrangement could perhaps stand the test of time because we would both have some alone time. Or if he traveled a lot for work or visited his parents a lot without me.
But just cooped up in a house all day together. Never having an ounce of alone time would kill me both mentally and physically

+100000!! Yes, all of the above. it's sad the OP's husband doesn't see it this way or care that the OP feels this way too.

[Anonymous]

Take back your office. Once he has to work from the kitchen, maybe he'll rediscover the joys of having a dedicated workspace outside the home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow--may I borrow your husband? Mine works from home-has been the entire pandemic--and literally does absolutely nothing. at least when he was in the office, he could blame it on commuting and being at the office all day. now he just clutters up our counters with his crap and leaves stuff around without cleaning it up, wanders out of his office and asks what the kids are having for dinner/what activities do they/what is going on, as if he's a boarding guest in this house. what i wouldn't give for someone to take some initiative and actually DO SOMETHING

Haha at least yours wanders, mine bolts out of his like Kramer. Full of anxiety and energy!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Move back into your office. I don't understand why or how he moved in there unless you weren't using it. Doesn't matter if you want it back claim it.

As for the other stuff, you have been a single parent for 14 years. You're going to have to learn to patent and share and compromise with him like every other couple does. Consider it positive for the kids that dad is around more. If you want your marriage to work.

But it kinda sounds like you just wanted a sperm donor if that's the case divorce because you can't kick him out of his house or make him get a different job.
Divorced you'll have the house to yourself and the kids 60% of the time to parent exactly how you want.

Narrator: That is, in fact, precisely what happened.

[Anonymous]

1) Take back your office. Tell him you need your office back and he can find another place to work. Starting this Monday. If he doesn’t comply, box up his crap and put it in the kitchen
2) Let him do all the evening kid stuff (rides, meals, etc.)
3) Give him a list of chores that you usually do
4) Use the evenings to get some me time—work out, go for a hike, meet up with friends, or have a quiet beverage somewhere
5) If he interrupts you while you work, close the office door and ignore him. He will learn.

I do think it sucks that you had to handle the evening kid routine solo for years. It’s easier now that they are older, but let him handle it. Last, do you even like your husband? It doesn’t sound like you do. That’s ok. But maybe do solo or couples therapy to figure this out. Best of luck, OP.