Expecting a different life at this age, so help with a reset:

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, people are just trying to problem solve, which is what people do, when I think what you are looking for is just some empathy/sense of shared experiences. I think you're thinking about this the right way, which is that it is a loss that you need to grieve. So, do that. There are books on how to deal with this type of grief -- not the loss of a loved one, but the loss of some expected life path. Find those books. Maybe see a therapist for awhile to help you sort through the emotions.

I'm not at your life stage yet, but I think I would feel similarly to you if I ended up in this situation.

I think what the OP feels sad about is that she did everything 'right' by making family the center of her world and her children also got to interact with their cousins etc. But she seems to have no understanding of the structural reasons as to why things are the way they are. It sounds like she's never had a career so of course she was able to be so family-oriented. Now it's 2021, and people have broader definitions of family and I wouldnt be surprised if her kids prefer to spend Thanksgiving with friends than schlep all the way back to the OP's. There is more to life than having children and OP needs to get that in her head.

Ah, alright.... (pause for eye roll) I had an all-encompassing, fairly intense career, and I "accidentally" started a new one without even trying to in these last 4 years. It appears that a new one is sprouting, also without full intention. I also managed a ton of other things while I had a career and kids, and continue to do them. I still put family first and if I could do it all again, I would still make the same choice. It was the best thing ever.

Yes, I had it all, and did it all. Still, I am here to inform you that there is nothing worth more than people- family, and friends who become family, and people who will become friends, who then become family. Nothing. Not money,
not stuff, not houses and trips, not anything. **Ok, dogs- dogs are definitely also worth it.

And my kids do "schlep" home for Thanksgiving, thank you! They schlep home for other things, and we schlep there.

I'm sorry, but I disagree with you about there being more to life than that. You might not have experienced it and, if so, it might be a good thing that you don't know what you missed. I know what I am exactly missing and, well,.... I miss it.

Ok, thanks everyone. I'm ending it here. I've decided to engage interactively with some Viktor Frankl literature, namely Man's Search for Meaning and then I will report back what I have learned. Or did. Or whatever happens.

OP, as you probably already know, the Cliff Notes version of Frankl's work will fundamentally identify the big three as:

making a difference in the world
having particular experiences
adopting particular attitude

"Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of human freedoms - to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."

This is coming from a guy who was in a concentration camp, remember? A suggestion - honestly look at the defensiveness which has crept into your responses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:PP, people are just trying to problem solve, which is what people do, when I think what you are looking for is just some empathy/sense of shared experiences. I think you're thinking about this the right way, which is that it is a loss that you need to grieve. So, do that. There are books on how to deal with this type of grief -- not the loss of a loved one, but the loss of some expected life path. Find those books. Maybe see a therapist for awhile to help you sort through the emotions.

I'm not at your life stage yet, but I think I would feel similarly to you if I ended up in this situation.

I think what the OP feels sad about is that she did everything 'right' by making family the center of her world and her children also got to interact with their cousins etc. But she seems to have no understanding of the structural reasons as to why things are the way they are. It sounds like she's never had a career so of course she was able to be so family-oriented. Now it's 2021, and people have broader definitions of family and I wouldnt be surprised if her kids prefer to spend Thanksgiving with friends than schlep all the way back to the OP's. There is more to life than having children and OP needs to get that in her head.

Ah, alright.... (pause for eye roll) I had an all-encompassing, fairly intense career, and I "accidentally" started a new one without even trying to in these last 4 years. It appears that a new one is sprouting, also without full intention. I also managed a ton of other things while I had a career and kids, and continue to do them. I still put family first and if I could do it all again, I would still make the same choice. It was the best thing ever.

Yes, I had it all, and did it all. Still, I am here to inform you that there is nothing worth more than people- family, and friends who become family, and people who will become friends, who then become family. Nothing. Not money,
not stuff, not houses and trips, not anything. **Ok, dogs- dogs are definitely also worth it.

And my kids do "schlep" home for Thanksgiving, thank you! They schlep home for other things, and we schlep there.

I'm sorry, but I disagree with you about there being more to life than that. You might not have experienced it and, if so, it might be a good thing that you don't know what you missed. I know what I am exactly missing and, well,.... I miss it.

Ok, thanks everyone. I'm ending it here. I've decided to engage interactively with some Viktor Frankl literature, namely Man's Search for Meaning and then I will report back what I have learned. Or did. Or whatever happens.

OP, as you probably already know, the Cliff Notes version of Frankl's work will fundamentally identify the big three as:

making a difference in the world
having particular experiences
adopting particular attitude

"Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of human freedoms - to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."

This is coming from a guy who was in a concentration camp, remember? A suggestion - honestly look at the defensiveness which has crept into your responses.

So, here's a bit of reading for you that I happened upon:

"Attitude Is Everything"

We live in a culture that is blind to betrayal and intolerant of emotional pain. In New Age crowds here on the West Coast, where your attitude is considered the sole determinant of the impact an event has on you, it gets even worse.In these New Thought circles, no matter what happens to you, it is assumed that you have created your own reality. Not only have you chosen the event, no matter how horrible, for your personal growth. You also chose how you interpret what happened—as if there are no interpersonal facts, only interpretations.

The upshot of this perspective is that your suffering would vanish if only you adopted a more evolved perspective and stopped feeling aggrieved. I was often kindly reminded (and believed it myself), “there are no victims.” How can you be a victim when you are responsible for your circumstances?

When you most need validation and support to get through the worst pain of your life, to be confronted with the well-meaning, but quasi-religious fervor of these insidious half-truths can be deeply demoralizing. This kind of advice feeds guilt and shame, inhibits grieving, encourages grandiosity and can drive you to be alone to shield your vulnerability.


Sandra Lee Dennis

**I read your response and tried to remember who wrote this because I think it will help you with your general interactions with others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, how many children to you have, how old are they, any of them married, and insight if they are choosing to be childless?

This is a good question. I see that OP is in pain, but her anger comes through very strongly. She may alienate her children even if she thinks she is holding back and being careful. I would see a therapist. Whether your kids eventually procreate you want to maintain ties. I’m not sure my mom realizes how her years of complaining about how I wasn’t interested in kids soured things even after I started a family. And she believed she was holding her tongue, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, how many children to you have, how old are they, any of them married, and insight if they are choosing to be childless?

This is a good question. I see that OP is in pain, but her anger comes through very strongly. She may alienate her children even if she thinks she is holding back and being careful. I would see a therapist. Whether your kids eventually procreate you want to maintain ties. I’m not sure my mom realizes how her years of complaining about how I wasn’t interested in kids soured things even after I started a family. And she believed she was holding her tongue, too.

DP and I completely agree with you. OP keeps on saying she doesn’t judge her children’s choices but she sounds judgemental to the core. I would avoid her if she were my mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it sounds to me like you have many activities, but long for time with family. It also sounds like you don't have many friends, perhaps because you spent so much of your time focused on family. So, if I were you, I'd reach out and try to connect with some of the people you know as acquaintances through your shared activities. That's how you make friends. And, if you want to spend more time with family, I would stop dreaming about what you'd expected in the way of continued intergenerational events -- possibly centered on you and your husband as matriarch and patriarch. Instead, why not visit your kids, siblings, nieces and nephews? Heck, get an RV and drive a circuit of family visits. But, really, don't dwell on what might have been. That's a sure recipe for misery.

You think I have few friends? Where did that come from?

Reread my post. I have many friends. Not only are they friends from my activities, I have friends from the time I was a child. I also have a large extended family with a lot of cousins.

And..what do you think they are all doing right now? Yes! They are ALL involved with their growing family.

They all say things like "Just wait until it's your turn!" Or " You never know, "#$%# will change her mind, she'll probably have kids." I am actually not promoting these comments, nor am I complaining to them. I am very careful not to...which is why I am doing it here. So, don't act like I'm limited in my thinking since this is a common theme among most that I know now.

You will notice how the going advice is to just get out of town. Do it in a plane, in a car, in a RV. So, implicitly, even you admit there's not much life here, so now I should go look at stuff and museums and other people's families.

And, no, we don't have "Miss Ellie" patriarch and matriarch fantasies. Lol. That was the best one yet..I have to hand it to you. Laughed OUT LOUD.

I was surrounded by family my whole life, my parents were as well, and I just didn't expect it to dead end on a dime. It's unbelievably sad to me even though I do have friends and plenty of things to do. I am also close with my children, but one lives overseas and the other is closer geographically, but career involved, which is fine. No judgements. She has that choice.

Would you say these things to younger parents who can't have kids of their own? That their dream of having a family can be supplanted by a hobby or just getting into an RV or, how about getting involved in someone else's family? You may say that we already had our family and should be grateful, and we understand that and even agree.However, people's values of what is important vary. Mine was always about family. I don't effing care about bunco, golf, tropical travel. It's simply that, with a twist of continual growing older without family. It's not like I can throw myself into a career at this point, or I can, I am already doing it, but it's not long term.

It's just the acceptance of a loss. I get it. I was just wondering how others were managing a paradigm change in their life trajectory.

I'm not in your position, OP, so I can't say how I would handle it exactly. But all of us have experienced some change or disappointment from the life we imagined for ourselves -- certainly never more so than in the past year. I do think it helps to work on letting go of what we cannot have and, instead, focusing on gratitude for what we do have -- and you seem to have a lot to be grateful for, OP. Maybe keeping that in mind, you can start to create a vision for a new life trajectory. That's not easy, I know, and anger and disappointment can get in the way. So, maybe along with focusing on gratitude, you might wish to see a therapist to help you. I wish you the best as you move forward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, how many children to you have, how old are they, any of them married, and insight if they are choosing to be childless?

This is a good question. I see that OP is in pain, but her anger comes through very strongly. She may alienate her children even if she thinks she is holding back and being careful. I would see a therapist. Whether your kids eventually procreate you want to maintain ties. I’m not sure my mom realizes how her years of complaining about how I wasn’t interested in kids soured things even after I started a family. And she believed she was holding her tongue, too.

1. I'm not your mother.
2. Reread above. I have never once, not once, said anything. Yes, I'm sure they know I would love grandchildren because they know me, not because I believe I was holding my tongue when I wasn't.
3. Additionally, I've been more than vocal about my own mother's lack of choices in the 1950s, which, in my opinion, would have resulted in her never having kids.
4. I have not alienated my kids. In fact, many of **their** child bearing friends have alienated them, which they actually feel comfortable enough to share with me. And-they are sad about that. Different life paths. **Talk about holding my tongue.




That being said, it is ridiculous to assume that each reaction to a situation can't be mutually exclusive. Just as no one can or should judge you for your decision to have or not have kids, there shouldn't be judgement regarding the impact of that either. Each will have their own emotions.

But, odd that you did, despite indicating for so long that you wouldn't, have kids. So something must have changed your mind (?)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, how many children to you have, how old are they, any of them married, and insight if they are choosing to be childless?

This is a good question. I see that OP is in pain, but her anger comes through very strongly. She may alienate her children even if she thinks she is holding back and being careful. I would see a therapist. Whether your kids eventually procreate you want to maintain ties. I’m not sure my mom realizes how her years of complaining about how I wasn’t interested in kids soured things even after I started a family. And she believed she was holding her tongue, too.

1. I'm not your mother.
2. Reread above. I have never once, not once, said anything. Yes, I'm sure they know I would love grandchildren because they know me, not because I believe I was holding my tongue when I wasn't.
3. Additionally, I've been more than vocal about my own mother's lack of choices in the 1950s, which, in my opinion, would have resulted in her never having kids.
4. I have not alienated my kids. In fact, many of **their** child bearing friends have alienated them, which they actually feel comfortable enough to share with me. And-they are sad about that. Different life paths. **Talk about holding my tongue.




That being said, it is ridiculous to assume that each reaction to a situation can't be mutually exclusive. Just as no one can or should judge you for your decision to have or not have kids, there shouldn't be judgement regarding the impact of that either. Each will have their own emotions.

But, odd that you did, despite indicating for so long that you wouldn't, have kids. So something must have changed your mind (?)

You're right, you're not angry or bitter or rude at all. The acceptance and grace is oozing off you. What a quirk of fate that you are not bring nudged into this matriarchial seat of benevolence and admiration. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, how many children to you have, how old are they, any of them married, and insight if they are choosing to be childless?

This is a good question. I see that OP is in pain, but her anger comes through very strongly. She may alienate her children even if she thinks she is holding back and being careful. I would see a therapist. Whether your kids eventually procreate you want to maintain ties. I’m not sure my mom realizes how her years of complaining about how I wasn’t interested in kids soured things even after I started a family. And she believed she was holding her tongue, too.

1. I'm not your mother.
2. Reread above. I have never once, not once, said anything. Yes, I'm sure they know I would love grandchildren because they know me, not because I believe I was holding my tongue when I wasn't.
3. Additionally, I've been more than vocal about my own mother's lack of choices in the 1950s, which, in my opinion, would have resulted in her never having kids.
4. I have not alienated my kids. In fact, many of **their** child bearing friends have alienated them, which they actually feel comfortable enough to share with me. And-they are sad about that. Different life paths. **Talk about holding my tongue.




That being said, it is ridiculous to assume that each reaction to a situation can't be mutually exclusive. Just as no one can or should judge you for your decision to have or not have kids, there shouldn't be judgement regarding the impact of that either. Each will have their own emotions.

But, odd that you did, despite indicating for so long that you wouldn't, have kids. So something must have changed your mind (?)

Why do you assume I have kids? Anyway, you may want to read this thread " I don't want my parents to visit us while we are at my brothers house....how to handle?" in the Family Relationships forum and be grateful you dont have to deal with any crazy in your life. Oh wait, you are the crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But what did you and your DH do before you had kids? What's wrong with traveling? I traveled a lot with dh and my parents before kids. This is your time to see places- Hawaiii,machu picchu or whatever you've always wanted before old age.

What about your careers? Are you retired?

I'm sorry about the lack of grandchildren. I will say that it factored into us having a 3rd baby. We're hoping one of the three will want to have kids. We only have one sibling each and they didn't have children. Our parents basically fight over every holiday for grandkids.

All of my friends who had bigger families did it because they were only children or had one sibling and no extended family around. It's hard during the holidays as everyone grows up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But what did you and your DH do before you had kids? What's wrong with traveling? I traveled a lot with dh and my parents before kids. This is your time to see places- Hawaiii,machu picchu or whatever you've always wanted before old age.

What about your careers? Are you retired?

I'm sorry about the lack of grandchildren. I will say that it factored into us having a 3rd baby. We're hoping one of the three will want to have kids. We only have one sibling each and they didn't have children. Our parents basically fight over every holiday for grandkids.

All of my friends who had bigger families did it because they were only children or had one sibling and no extended family around. It's hard during the holidays as everyone grows up.

At the end of the day, we are all alone. Even if you're a Duggar with 20 kids, they will form their own families and not be with you anyway.

[Anonymous]

My HS kid's class just watched a presentation by a Holocaust survivor (and it was on zoom so I watched too)

She said, "I'm never a victim. I'm a survivor. Remember that as you go through life. Always think of yourself as a survivor, not a victim"

So powerful! As is Viktor Frankl.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: The above appeared as one comment due to quote fail, so:


I am not in need of ideas of things to do. I am very active. In fact, I do almost everything on this list, except the Nats. I am not into sports..and will not be ever playing golf as well, which is a lifestyle in and of itself. Never understood golf and it's appeal. I'm not sitting alone wondering how to fill my time. I cook, refinish furniture, volunteer in several organizations, am politically active, write, manage two IG
business accounts that are turning profitable, interestingly enough- wasn't expecting that. I design fabric, I garden. We are big theater goers, before pandemic, and will be again. We have friends. Some,though, have moved to Florida into over 55 resort type communities. That's not me. They are finding out it might not be them, either!
I am talking about a loss of family, of a community, of support, of love, and what that looks like going forward alone. My parents and grandparents were enveloped by family.
I guess it was short lived, and I'll have to accept that.

I understand op. It is as if family vanishes into thin air. I grew up with lots of cousins and big family reunions and trips together. I'm the youngest of a large family, All of my siblings scattered across the globe for jobs and after my father died, the holidays were often just my mother and I . We were close to extended family on my mom's side but saw one another less and less through the years. I had to deal with this before I reached adulthood and now I am seeing friends and other family go through this. It is sad. My favorite aunt really held the family together but has experienced the same. My uncle had altzhiemers and died. Her oldest child died of dementia at 60. A grandchild that they were close to died in his 20s. The remaining grandkids they raised have moved states away for jobs and many holidays are small now. There are lots of people who experience this shrinking of family and it is hard to see friends who don't experience it. Hugs op. I get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, it sounds to me like you have many activities, but long for time with family. It also sounds like you don't have many friends, perhaps because you spent so much of your time focused on family. So, if I were you, I'd reach out and try to connect with some of the people you know as acquaintances through your shared activities. That's how you make friends. And, if you want to spend more time with family, I would stop dreaming about what you'd expected in the way of continued intergenerational events -- possibly centered on you and your husband as matriarch and patriarch. Instead, why not visit your kids, siblings, nieces and nephews? Heck, get an RV and drive a circuit of family visits. But, really, don't dwell on what might have been. That's a sure recipe for misery.

This is the answer

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, it sounds to me like you have many activities, but long for time with family. It also sounds like you don't have many friends, perhaps because you spent so much of your time focused on family. So, if I were you, I'd reach out and try to connect with some of the people you know as acquaintances through your shared activities. That's how you make friends. And, if you want to spend more time with family, I would stop dreaming about what you'd expected in the way of continued intergenerational events -- possibly centered on you and your husband as matriarch and patriarch. Instead, why not visit your kids, siblings, nieces and nephews? Heck, get an RV and drive a circuit of family visits. But, really, don't dwell on what might have been. That's a sure recipe for misery.

You think I have few friends? Where did that come from?

Reread my post. I have many friends. Not only are they friends from my activities, I have friends from the time I was a child. I also have a large extended family with a lot of cousins.

And..what do you think they are all doing right now? Yes! They are ALL involved with their growing family.

They all say things like "Just wait until it's your turn!" Or " You never know, "#$%# will change her mind, she'll probably have kids." I am actually not promoting these comments, nor am I complaining to them. I am very careful not to...which is why I am doing it here. So, don't act like I'm limited in my thinking since this is a common theme among most that I know now.

You will notice how the going advice is to just get out of town. Do it in a plane, in a car, in a RV. So, implicitly, even you admit there's not much life here, so now I should go look at stuff and museums and other people's families.

And, no, we don't have "Miss Ellie" patriarch and matriarch fantasies. Lol. That was the best one yet..I have to hand it to you. Laughed OUT LOUD.

I was surrounded by family my whole life, my parents were as well, and I just didn't expect it to dead end on a dime. It's unbelievably sad to me even though I do have friends and plenty of things to do. I am also close with my children, but one lives overseas and the other is closer geographically, but career involved, which is fine. No judgements. She has that choice.

Would you say these things to younger parents who can't have kids of their own? That their dream of having a family can be supplanted by a hobby or just getting into an RV or, how about getting involved in someone else's family? You may say that we already had our family and should be grateful, and we understand that and even agree.However, people's values of what is important vary. Mine was always about family. I don't effing care about bunco, golf, tropical travel. It's simply that, with a twist of continual growing older without family. It's not like I can throw myself into a career at this point, or I can, I am already doing it, but it's not long term.

It's just the acceptance of a loss. I get it. I was just wondering how others were managing a paradigm change in their life trajectory.

You come across here and throughout the thread as insufferable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:But what did you and your DH do before you had kids? What's wrong with traveling? I traveled a lot with dh and my parents before kids. This is your time to see places- Hawaiii,machu picchu or whatever you've always wanted before old age.

What about your careers? Are you retired?

I'm sorry about the lack of grandchildren. I will say that it factored into us having a 3rd baby. We're hoping one of the three will want to have kids. We only have one sibling each and they didn't have children. Our parents basically fight over every holiday for grandkids.

Good idea. We often wish we had more kids.

But again, we are pretty active. Not needing things to do.

I get it. I'm not at that stage yet, but would feel the same as you. You things to fill your time....but not your heart. I get it.

I feel like it's an outgrowth of our culture. True family connection (not splitting off and making other tiny families, but remaining a multigenerational connected family) has become secondary to education/jobs/careers/money/"independence". This is our culture and I am trying hard to teach my children a different value system. Just keep track of how many people on this board alone are starting to recognize that being close to extended family is something they wish they had. It's sad but has to change on a personal level before society will accept a change.

I grew up in a place where lots of people didn't leave because family. It ensures people stay poor. Most people have to move to find jobs and you really hobble your kids if you don't let them fly. I think it is awful when parents stop their kids from going to the colleges they want or discouraging a kid from finding a better job just because the parents want them to stay close by. In high school, my best friend and I competed for scholarships but she had parents like pp. She never left our little town, got a crap degree from our community college, and has worked in retail every day she could keep a job. In the town I'm from there is tough competition for jobs in retail or fast food. People lose their jobs constantly and younger people chase older people out of those jobs. My friend lives barely above the poverty level.