Coming to terms with paying so much for an unmotivated student who hates college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My wife and I went through this with our son, it's indeed frustrating especially when you know the potential is there.

Our approach was to sit him down at the end of his freshman year in order to discuss where his head was at, map out the pros and cons of college in terms of what he wanted out of life, where we thought he was under-performing and what we viewed as realistic and acceptable grade targets based off of his past performance as a student. This ultimately led to an agreed upon target for mid and end of sophomore year GPA performance. He clearly understood that if the mark was missed mom and dad were out of the college money game as he would have clearly indicated that he had other interests. His choices would be move back home, get a job and pay a reasonable room and board while learning a trade or take the leap and venture into the world by living on his own, joining the Military etc.

He made progress sophomore year but unfortunately didn’t achieve the agreed upon end of year goal so we upheld our end of the deal and we stopped the gravy train. He came home that summer, started framing houses, paying us rent (which we set aside for him) and after a rough half a year of swinging a hammer, not getting paid due to weather or limited work and being constantly annoyed by his teenage sister that while being a carpenter is a great profession for some, college was more his thing.

He made the decision to return to school, buckled down, upped his game and did very well his final 2 years. He’s now a Park Ranger out west and loving life with plans to pursue a Master’s soon.

Long winded but at least lets you know others live with this and it is definitely a solvable situation that can have a good ending with some conversation, guidance, support and a sprinkle of tough love.... good luck!

Well done and congrats to your son.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It will be so embarrassing the parents can't keep up the fake appearance they're amazing parents and he's doing amazing at college. And the validity of that fake parenting is some worthless $100,000 bachelor's. The future "salesman" doesn't need a degree to go sell cars or be a loan officer. Instead of yanking an obvious mooching manipulating brat out of his multi-year spring break -- maybe waking him up for once or just saving the family a substantial sum of money -- you underwrite it, so mommy and daddy's friends and associates don't know they've raised an unmotivated bum.

PP, I say this with good intent: If your post is serious, you should do some self-evaluation as you appear to be a vindictive and bitter person. If you are trolling, and doing this for "fun", then you are a sick person.

Complicit parents are postponing the inevitable. Instead of confronting the reality, at an age he might still learn, they're propping up this charade. Wishful thinking, say he finishes the BA, but then comes home and is the same unmotivated loafer (why wouldn't he be?), so what's the excuse going to be then? Are they going to feign surprise that he was this amazing college student and now he's a video game addict vaping in the basement?

[Anonymous]

So weird to hear maybe a majority of parents saying "grades don't matter" for full time college students.

Don't you think there is a correlation between grades and learning? Between grades and being responsible/having a work ethic?

So sad that parents from this supposedly upper SES area are content to characterize college as "checking the BA box." It's all just transactional I guess.

I can see that this kid will have plenty of company when he gets out into the world (of mediocrity vs. conscientiousness). Just glad he won't be heading to medical school. Hopefully, he also won't manage anyone's 401K!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So weird to hear maybe a majority of parents saying "grades don't matter" for full time college students.

Don't you think there is a correlation between grades and learning? Between grades and being responsible/having a work ethic?

So sad that parents from this supposedly upper SES area are content to characterize college as "checking the BA box." It's all just transactional I guess.

I can see that this kid will have plenty of company when he gets out into the world (of mediocrity vs. conscientiousness). Just glad he won't be heading to medical school. Hopefully, he also won't manage anyone's 401K!

That's just it though -- it doesn't matter if this is the last stop on the school train.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He needs to find something he is passionate about.

No, he doesn't. He needs to graduate and find a job that will pay his bills and at which he can be competent.

+1000

This emphasis on telling 17 - 20 year olds to "find their passion" is absurd.

[Anonymous]

OP has your son been evaluated for ADHD? Motivation issues are a red flag. Or depression?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The threats of "ending the gravy train" ... "make him pay for things" ... and "the party is over after graduation, bud!" get you nowhere with kids like this. Unmotivated loafers have no future orientation and little impulse control. They simply do not give a $%!#, it's like talking to a brick wall.

And expecting someone like this to become a sales ace merely because they have a social life is comical. The best sales careers are hyper-competitive (read: personality PLUS great grades PLUS great internships PLUS great club involvement) with a deep, aggressive and sharp candidate pool.

You really know nothing about the world of sales, do you? Grades is the least important part of it. But it is besides the point, OP describes her kid as likeable but not an active person.

I worked at LLY for over 10 years (until we had children). Our sales interns were extremely polished, very aggressive, great grades and great recs -- in contrast to what OP described, which is a lazy dimwit (who I assume is a marijuana addict). I never understood why people think being social is so rare that it will smooth every red flag -- I guess it's a coping mechanism for people with bad marks or parents with lazy kids.

Now if OP said her boy was a D1 tennis player and had crummy grades, a different story -- or gorgeous ACC sorority girl with crummy grades, a little different.

We both agree the OP's son is lazy and not a good candidate for sales. I know many experienced sales professionals and many had mediocre college grades but they demonstrated the ability for success in other ways while in college. That was my point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It will be so embarrassing the parents can't keep up the fake appearance they're amazing parents and he's doing amazing at college. And the validity of that fake parenting is some worthless $100,000 bachelor's. The future "salesman" doesn't need a degree to go sell cars or be a loan officer. Instead of yanking an obvious mooching manipulating brat out of his multi-year spring break -- maybe waking him up for once or just saving the family a substantial sum of money -- you underwrite it, so mommy and daddy's friends and associates don't know they've raised an unmotivated bum.

PP, I say this with good intent: If your post is serious, you should do some self-evaluation as you appear to be a vindictive and bitter person. If you are trolling, and doing this for "fun", then you are a sick person.

There is nothing sick, bitter or vindictive here. I think the PP raises some excellent points that more of us need to think about. Sorry if it hits too close to home for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So weird to hear maybe a majority of parents saying "grades don't matter" for full time college students.

Don't you think there is a correlation between grades and learning? Between grades and being responsible/having a work ethic?

So sad that parents from this supposedly upper SES area are content to characterize college as "checking the BA box." It's all just transactional I guess.

I can see that this kid will have plenty of company when he gets out into the world (of mediocrity vs. conscientiousness). Just glad he won't be heading to medical school. Hopefully, he also won't manage anyone's 401K!

Did anyone say that? Maybe someone, but certainly not a majority. Grades matter, learning matters, motivation matters, all of that. But, if that's not happening for some reason, at least get the dang degree so the kid can get a job! We are saying that matters more than the other stuff. Many college kids are immature. They're still so young. I hope my kid has his shit together by the time he goes to college, but if he doesn't, I hope he at least gets a degree so he can find a job.

[Anonymous]

I can't help but wonder how different the responses would be in OP wasn't somewhat well off (or has a well-funded 529). If OP said they pulled equity out of the house and the kid has $40,000 in loans so far in his name, would everyone still say double down and push ahead? I doubt it, which is fascinating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So weird to hear maybe a majority of parents saying "grades don't matter" for full time college students.

Don't you think there is a correlation between grades and learning? Between grades and being responsible/having a work ethic?

So sad that parents from this supposedly upper SES area are content to characterize college as "checking the BA box." It's all just transactional I guess.

I can see that this kid will have plenty of company when he gets out into the world (of mediocrity vs. conscientiousness). Just glad he won't be heading to medical school. Hopefully, he also won't manage anyone's 401K!

Did anyone say that? Maybe someone, but certainly not a majority. Grades matter, learning matters, motivation matters, all of that. But, if that's not happening for some reason, at least get the dang degree so the kid can get a job! We are saying that matters more than the other stuff. Many college kids are immature. They're still so young. I hope my kid has his shit together by the time he goes to college, but if he doesn't, I hope he at least gets a degree so he can find a job.

Please tell us the amazing careers a Big State University bachelor's in a non rigorous unmarketable field of study lands in 2020. Who exactly is eager to hire someone like the OP's kid?

[Anonymous]

Tell him you will only pay 50% for a 2.0. If he wants you to pay 100% he’s got to get his gpa up to whatever is acceptable to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It will be so embarrassing the parents can't keep up the fake appearance they're amazing parents and he's doing amazing at college. And the validity of that fake parenting is some worthless $100,000 bachelor's. The future "salesman" doesn't need a degree to go sell cars or be a loan officer. Instead of yanking an obvious mooching manipulating brat out of his multi-year spring break -- maybe waking him up for once or just saving the family a substantial sum of money -- you underwrite it, so mommy and daddy's friends and associates don't know they've raised an unmotivated bum.

PP, I say this with good intent: If your post is serious, you should do some self-evaluation as you appear to be a vindictive and bitter person. If you are trolling, and doing this for "fun", then you are a sick person.

There is nothing sick, bitter or vindictive here. I think the PP raises some excellent points that more of us need to think about. Sorry if it hits too close to home for you.

PP here: nice try, chief. It does not "hit close to home" and I don't need to be a pornstar to know a giant asshole when I see one.

"yanking an obvious mooching manipulating brat out of his multi-year spring break". Yeah, that's not bitter or vindictive.

If you are not the PP and you are defending him, then you are worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It will be so embarrassing the parents can't keep up the fake appearance they're amazing parents and he's doing amazing at college. And the validity of that fake parenting is some worthless $100,000 bachelor's. The future "salesman" doesn't need a degree to go sell cars or be a loan officer. Instead of yanking an obvious mooching manipulating brat out of his multi-year spring break -- maybe waking him up for once or just saving the family a substantial sum of money -- you underwrite it, so mommy and daddy's friends and associates don't know they've raised an unmotivated bum.

PP, I say this with good intent: If your post is serious, you should do some self-evaluation as you appear to be a vindictive and bitter person. If you are trolling, and doing this for "fun", then you are a sick person.

There is nothing sick, bitter or vindictive here. I think the PP raises some excellent points that more of us need to think about. Sorry if it hits too close to home for you.

PP here: nice try, chief. It does not "hit close to home" and I don't need to be a pornstar to know a giant asshole when I see one.

"yanking an obvious mooching manipulating brat out of his multi-year spring break". Yeah, that's not bitter or vindictive.

If you are not the PP and you are defending him, then you are worse.

What is bitter about it? The people on this board are parents. It’s not like we’re sitting around passing a joint high giving the guy whose parents funded the pizza.

Many people are people are about keeping up appearances. For OPs family college doesn’t matter for learning or grades. They must be getting something out of it otherwise why keep paying? The college degree is a kind of American aristocracy, it confers immediate respectability to the young person and accolades to his parents. The degree itself is about as useful as those old world titles, every once in a blue moon someone was impressed, but mostly it serves as weed out mechanism for undesirables.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

It will be so embarrassing the parents can't keep up the fake appearance they're amazing parents and he's doing amazing at college. And the validity of that fake parenting is some worthless $100,000 bachelor's. The future "salesman" doesn't need a degree to go sell cars or be a loan officer. Instead of yanking an obvious mooching manipulating brat out of his multi-year spring break -- maybe waking him up for once or just saving the family a substantial sum of money -- you underwrite it, so mommy and daddy's friends and associates don't know they've raised an unmotivated bum.

PP, I say this with good intent: If your post is serious, you should do some self-evaluation as you appear to be a vindictive and bitter person. If you are trolling, and doing this for "fun", then you are a sick person.

There is nothing sick, bitter or vindictive here. I think the PP raises some excellent points that more of us need to think about. Sorry if it hits too close to home for you.

DP: I think the bolded above reads fairly bitter and vindictive and really off the mark. Nothing in OP's post suggests their concerns have to do with keeping up appearances or validating their parenting skills. And BTW this doesn't hit near home at all for me. My college kid tends more to the anxious, self-critical perfectionist type A side --I wouldn't mind if they picked up a bit of the slacker mentality.
My advice though is to frame it as the upper levels of undergrad are really finding a realistic path forward and just keep holding him to that. Plug the career center, ask about jobs a lot. I think it's okay to be a bit of a nag. I would also lessen up any extra money you give--still support the basic expenses -tuition, books, room and board--but not enough for extra social activities. Just think of your job as letting a little more reality increasingly seep through.

It's increasingly on him to do this, not you.