Coming to terms with paying so much for an unmotivated student who hates college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does he like, OP?

College grades only really matter if you are going to grad school. Otherwise, yes, he needs to just cross that finish line. Is there a line of work he likes that he could pursue while he's in school? Internships that sort of thing? Because his next stop is employment. Focus on that.

Do employers not look at colelge GPA during the interview process?

They absolutely do!

When the students go on the career center website to sign up for interviews, emploeyers can set minimum requirements. The most common are major and GPA. The best jobs require a 3.5 then there’s the less competitive jobs with a 3.0 cutoff and then there are the ones with no minimum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not lay down the gauntlet?

He needs X GPA next semester or he’s coming home and doing a semester at community college. Then he needs to have CC gpa of at least 3.5 before you will agree to pay for college again. He can keep trying at community college for a year. After that he needs a job and pays rent orgets kicked out.

Exactly. A "C" is for Community College. End of discussion. You want my money, you put school first. You want to socialize and skate by, you pay.

I am faced with a different situation: a super high performing kid who will probably get into Harvard and want to go. But her disrespect and regular rude behavior toward me, combined with the fact that she barely will have a conversation or do anything with me, is so hurtful that I am about to tell her she is completely on her own s far as college tuition unless there is a serious change. My heart is literally shattered over the way she makes me feel.

I may start a thread on this to get some input from those wiser than me. Oh well...

Nobody will think you should pull college. That is ridiculous.

But watching the PP you responded to get dragged could be entertaining.

If you have a crappy relationship with your kid, fix it. Get therapy together. But if this is something you’d think seriously about doing, I can see why your kid loathes you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP you committed to pay for college. Your son is making his own choices. If he isn't super motivated it's all the more important he get that degree. If the school thought he was unworthy they'd be kicking him out. Use a tough love approach and by that I mean the opposite: shower him with love and let him know how much you care about him and his future and keep the dialog open. Encourage or require him to start visiting his career center to start thinking ahead.

As long as the checks clear, schools want the cash, and they have systematically lowered rigor and removed requirements (https://edsource.org/2017/cal-state-drops-intermediate-algebra-requirement-allows-other-math-courses/585595), so really, anyone who doesn't physically leave campus can plow through a BA. Most students I see "kicked out" were on financial aid and either stopped attending classes and/or completion percentages or grant/loan limits were exhausted.

Your link just suggests that non-math/science majors can take statistic, computer science or finance course instead of intermediate algebra reqs. I think it's dumb for a school to instead that every student master a specific sphere of math and IMO statistics is a lot more useful than scraping by in a "pure math" class. It might have been motivated by the math serving as a barrier to graduation/success, but it also makes more sense (I'm in STEM btw so nothing against math--just don't think pure math is the sole marker of rigor). I don't buy your narrative.

Look sweetie, the algebra diploma mills are removing from requisites is equivalent to 10th grade algebra 2. The entire motive isn’t more “practical” courses (that’s spin), it’s to keep physical morons enrolled and graduating. It’s a naked scam.

my child's 7th grade Algebra 1 teacher told us that the middle schoolers performed 12% better on an assessment than his college students on the same topic.

PP: The kids who take algebra in 7th grade are on an entirely different track and have a different background than the kids who are taking algebra 1 at community college. I have colleagues making great salaries in competitive businesses who would score worse on math tests than the elementary students I coach for math competitions. The colleagues aren't predisposed to and interested in math and the 10 year olds are. I personally don't think 4 year colleges should offer hs equivalent math courses other than calculus. Anyone who has a math pre-req for a major who doesn't have the background but wants it should take it at community college. They are wasting money and faculty resources at 4 year colleges otherwise. That said, I'm perfectly fine with a 4 year college that allows students to fulfill a gen ed math distribution with statistics or computer science. It IS more practical, I don't care if it's spin.

Personally, I would prefer making algebra 2 or test equivalent (e.g. a certain threshold score on Math SAT) a default admissions requirement for a BS or BA (not a BFA) at a 4 year college over making it a req after admitted-- because I think that would be way to re-direct people who would be better off with trade school/community college and work. (I would also make a threshold for critical reading). But if that doesn't happen--I'd rather not have a 4 year college offer courses in a math sequence below calc. If that means some people graduate while passing statistics or a comp sci course and never learning algebra 2 so be it.

[Anonymous]

The careers with no GPA cutoff likely don’t require a college degree and likely have starting salaries in the $3x,000 range. Selective employers and recruiters will view this kid as a high risk liability.

I don’t understand why parents piss away $100,000 plus into a worthless piece of paper their stoner kid doesn’t care about and won’t use. Praying he’ll one day wake up? Delusional wishful thinking as the best predictor of future behavior is current and past. OP’s son is showing exactly who he is - a loser is a loser.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The careers with no GPA cutoff likely don’t require a college degree and likely have starting salaries in the $3x,000 range. Selective employers and recruiters will view this kid as a high risk liability.

I don’t understand why parents piss away $100,000 plus into a worthless piece of paper their stoner kid doesn’t care about and won’t use. Praying he’ll one day wake up? Delusional wishful thinking as the best predictor of future behavior is current and past. OP’s son is showing exactly who he is - a loser is a loser.

I bet you are a huge success, posting here all day. Hilarious. Big time player.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think this is common for this generation. Life has been an endless treadmill of hovering, overprotective parents and preparation.

He probably sees college as something that is hoisted on him rather than feeling blessed that he is getting a good education paid for.

Right. This is the first generation that has C students in college who are more interested in partying than studying. Definitely a novel phenomenon.

[Anonymous]

Get that degree. He’s managing. My son quit college after three semesters a and a GPA of 0.9.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this is common for this generation. Life has been an endless treadmill of hovering, overprotective parents and preparation.

He probably sees college as something that is hoisted on him rather than feeling blessed that he is getting a good education paid for.

Right. This is the first generation that has C students in college who are more interested in partying than studying. Definitely a novel phenomenon.

Apples to oranges. Every gen Y and Z is going to college, so you have to attend a high caliber college and/or have strong grades to stand out.

[Anonymous]

Half of this thread is an echo chamber of moms with lazy kids telling each other college grades don’t matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Half of this thread is an echo chamber of moms with lazy kids telling each other college grades don’t matter.

Except that it isn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does he like, OP?

College grades only really matter if you are going to grad school. Otherwise, yes, he needs to just cross that finish line. Is there a line of work he likes that he could pursue while he's in school? Internships that sort of thing? Because his next stop is employment. Focus on that.

Do employers not look at colelge GPA during the interview process?

They absolutely do!

When the students go on the career center website to sign up for interviews, emploeyers can set minimum requirements. The most common are major and GPA. The best jobs require a 3.5 then there’s the less competitive jobs with a 3.0 cutoff and then there are the ones with no minimum.

Yes, but only for that first job. Once you get that under your belt, then it's demonstrated work experience and capability from there on out. But they'll still want to know if he has a college degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My wife and I went through this with our son, it's indeed frustrating especially when you know the potential is there.

Our approach was to sit him down at the end of his freshman year in order to discuss where his head was at, map out the pros and cons of college in terms of what he wanted out of life, where we thought he was under-performing and what we viewed as realistic and acceptable grade targets based off of his past performance as a student. This ultimately led to an agreed upon target for mid and end of sophomore year GPA performance. He clearly understood that if the mark was missed mom and dad were out of the college money game as he would have clearly indicated that he had other interests. His choices would be move back home, get a job and pay a reasonable room and board while learning a trade or take the leap and venture into the world by living on his own, joining the Military etc.

He made progress sophomore year but unfortunately didn’t achieve the agreed upon end of year goal so we upheld our end of the deal and we stopped the gravy train. He came home that summer, started framing houses, paying us rent (which we set aside for him) and after a rough half a year of swinging a hammer, not getting paid due to weather or limited work and being constantly annoyed by his teenage sister that while being a carpenter is a great profession for some, college was more his thing.

He made the decision to return to school, buckled down, upped his game and did very well his final 2 years. He’s now a Park Ranger out west and loving life with plans to pursue a Master’s soon.

Long winded but at least lets you know others live with this and it is definitely a solvable situation that can have a good ending with some conversation, guidance, support and a sprinkle of tough love.... good luck!

Great story! Thanks for sharing! -DP.

[Anonymous]

Grades matter for each and every summer internship, first job, grad school (which people sometimes don’t attend until well into their late 20s). Grades are basically the only differentiator you have as a college student or recent grad — are you motivated and sharp or lazy and low watt?

[Anonymous]

Plus undergrad research assistant positions, fellowships, scholarships, funded trips, on and on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does he like, OP?

College grades only really matter if you are going to grad school. Otherwise, yes, he needs to just cross that finish line. Is there a line of work he likes that he could pursue while he's in school? Internships that sort of thing? Because his next stop is employment. Focus on that.

Do employers not look at colelge GPA during the interview process?

They absolutely do!

When the students go on the career center website to sign up for interviews, emploeyers can set minimum requirements. The most common are major and GPA. The best jobs require a 3.5 then there’s the less competitive jobs with a 3.0 cutoff and then there are the ones with no minimum.

+1. Literally nobody will even see your resume if GPA is below the threshold.