I am sad today...need to vent. Tired of doing everything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ Just wanted to add a more personal note, having seen some of the comments just before mine, that I hate when people make it about the job versus the lifestyle.

My dad had a similar job and high income, and it took me years to realize that he didn't NEED to be working insane hours (and missing family vacations, and dinner every night) in order to be making the money he made. He was doing it to avoid us. He was doing it because work became, at a certain point, easier than his family. He was a workaholic. He loved work more than he loved his kids, or my mom.

People really miss the point when they simply tell people in your position that DH should get a different job. Maybe. Maybe he should. But that's not necessarily the main thing that is going on here. (And as I'm not saying he's avoiding you, I'm saying it's more complicated than "the job" that holds him against his will and if only he had a new "job" he'd be happy).

(I'm the PP here who had a dual biglaw marriage and I ended up becoming a SAHM.) This comment above resonates with me. My DH was working insane hours. Then someone said, "You have to make your DH want to come home." I thought about that and realized, whenever he came home, I gave him the second shift. I was friggen exhausted and lonely and he'd walk in and I'd hand him a baby, or over the weekend have him fix something in the house. Why would he want to come home early, for MORE hours of the second shift, when he could stay at work, where he had a crew of attorneys working for him, doing whatever he asked?

So I stopped asking him do do things, and made it nice for him to come home. I've told this story before and I get flamed for it every time, but I hope you read this OP because you know, in life, you don't do what's fair, you do what works. And this worked. Hugs at the door, dinner ready, and any house repair done because I had hired a handyman. He started to come home earlier. And he started to bring work home. He started to be happier and more engaged, and I became happier and less lonely. The flamers don't understand that by doing the thing that in the moment looks like more work, you create a situation that over time gives you less work. "Making it nice for him to come home" is really creating a foundation for YOU to have a better life; the work is short term, the payoff is in the long term.

Economic specialization works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ Just wanted to add a more personal note, having seen some of the comments just before mine, that I hate when people make it about the job versus the lifestyle.

My dad had a similar job and high income, and it took me years to realize that he didn't NEED to be working insane hours (and missing family vacations, and dinner every night) in order to be making the money he made. He was doing it to avoid us. He was doing it because work became, at a certain point, easier than his family. He was a workaholic. He loved work more than he loved his kids, or my mom.

People really miss the point when they simply tell people in your position that DH should get a different job. Maybe. Maybe he should. But that's not necessarily the main thing that is going on here. (And as I'm not saying he's avoiding you, I'm saying it's more complicated than "the job" that holds him against his will and if only he had a new "job" he'd be happy).

(I'm the PP here who had a dual biglaw marriage and I ended up becoming a SAHM.) This comment above resonates with me. My DH was working insane hours. Then someone said, "You have to make your DH want to come home." I thought about that and realized, whenever he came home, I gave him the second shift. I was friggen exhausted and lonely and he'd walk in and I'd hand him a baby, or over the weekend have him fix something in the house. Why would he want to come home early, for MORE hours of the second shift, when he could stay at work, where he had a crew of attorneys working for him, doing whatever he asked?

So I stopped asking him do do things, and made it nice for him to come home. I've told this story before and I get flamed for it every time, but I hope you read this OP because you know, in life, you don't do what's fair, you do what works. And this worked. Hugs at the door, dinner ready, and any house repair done because I had hired a handyman. He started to come home earlier. And he started to bring work home. He started to be happier and more engaged, and I became happier and less lonely. The flamers don't understand that by doing the thing that in the moment looks like more work, you create a situation that over time gives you less work. "Making it nice for him to come home" is really creating a foundation for YOU to have a better life; the work is short term, the payoff is in the long term.

Just think, if you had gotten him a parade every time he came home and couple of prostititutes in your bedroom waiting for him, he might have started to come home at 4 pm every day!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ Just wanted to add a more personal note, having seen some of the comments just before mine, that I hate when people make it about the job versus the lifestyle.

My dad had a similar job and high income, and it took me years to realize that he didn't NEED to be working insane hours (and missing family vacations, and dinner every night) in order to be making the money he made. He was doing it to avoid us. He was doing it because work became, at a certain point, easier than his family. He was a workaholic. He loved work more than he loved his kids, or my mom.

People really miss the point when they simply tell people in your position that DH should get a different job. Maybe. Maybe he should. But that's not necessarily the main thing that is going on here. (And as I'm not saying he's avoiding you, I'm saying it's more complicated than "the job" that holds him against his will and if only he had a new "job" he'd be happy).

(I'm the PP here who had a dual biglaw marriage and I ended up becoming a SAHM.) This comment above resonates with me. My DH was working insane hours. Then someone said, "You have to make your DH want to come home." I thought about that and realized, whenever he came home, I gave him the second shift. I was friggen exhausted and lonely and he'd walk in and I'd hand him a baby, or over the weekend have him fix something in the house. Why would he want to come home early, for MORE hours of the second shift, when he could stay at work, where he had a crew of attorneys working for him, doing whatever he asked?

So I stopped asking him do do things, and made it nice for him to come home. I've told this story before and I get flamed for it every time, but I hope you read this OP because you know, in life, you don't do what's fair, you do what works. And this worked. Hugs at the door, dinner ready, and any house repair done because I had hired a handyman. He started to come home earlier. And he started to bring work home. He started to be happier and more engaged, and I became happier and less lonely. The flamers don't understand that by doing the thing that in the moment looks like more work, you create a situation that over time gives you less work. "Making it nice for him to come home" is really creating a foundation for YOU to have a better life; the work is short term, the payoff is in the long term.

Have some self-respect. It's possible for a woman to both stand up for herself, and be nice to her husband and welcome him when he gets home. Swallowing your anger and doing things you don't feel are fair are not a recipe for happiness for the vast majority of women. And, you were a SAHM. That is different from a woman who's working and on top of that has to care for the whole household. Ultimately not all of us operate from the premise that we have to adjust to our DH's inherent selfishness.

[Anonymous]

I've been thinking about the above comments today and it seems to me that there are two perspectives: those that believe a job in big law means working the hours OP described, in which case the only way to improve the situation is for her husband to get a new job (outside of big law, presumably), and those who think there's something else making OPs husband work such extreme hours.

Certainly OPs husband is not alone, and there are other lawyers who work hours like his - but there are also plenty of other professions (including low-paying ones!) that consume those who allow themselves to be consumed.

No one on DCUM knows anything of OPs circumstances or her husband's professional track, but in my experience people who go into and stay in big law (ie, have the ability to make partner) typically don't HAVE to work the kind of hours described. Whether it's the result of not setting boundaries, not working efficiently, feeling like he has to "prove" himself to someone, having learned at a young age that that's simply what work is, I don't know. But big law hours - while they can be long - do not have to result in a totally absent spouse/parent.

What made me think about these comments and made me write again is because I hate to think I contributed to some message that OP should become a "better housewife" in order to seduce her husband into coming home earlier (and in reality I don't think the other PP was saying that either, but that's how it was interpreted). I simply think that there is something else going on that is making it hard for OPs husband to prioritize his family, and for better or worse, it's up to her to help him figure out what it is. It could be something in the marriage, or their family (which could simply be that having young kids is exhausting), or something in his personal history that is driving him to feel like he MUST SUCCEED (ie, work) AT ALL COSTS (and the cost is is family). And that is a dangerous way for anyone to live their life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your DH needs to establish boundaries.

There are two possibilities:

1. Your DH is a partner or counsel (ie, secure in his position) and is using work as a way to avoid being at home. He might not even be doing this consciously (in fact, he probably isn't), but if being with the family has become MORE stressful than work - you're always giving him lists of things to do or feeling disconnected from him, the kids are always fighting - he's going to find an excuse to stay at work.

2. Your DH is a senior associate and he's trying to make partner. If this is the case, the two of you need to sit down and discuss what exactly his firm is looking for in a partner (not all actually want insane billable hours, many simply want the hours met, plus exceptional work, building client relationships, etc) and how long you expect this craziness to last. Is he 1 year out from being evaluated? 2 years? Can you hang in there that long, knowing that this is temporary? Can he acknowledge that this will NOT go on forever?

Then you and your DH need to sit down together and decide what is an acceptable amount of work, and he needs to establish and enforce those boundaries. How many nights a week do you need him home for dinner/bedtime? How much time should he be there on weekends? Etc.

Finally, you need to think about what YOU need to help YOU manage with the rest. Being a big law spouse does, frequently, mean being responsible for 99% of the "stuff." Even if you are very good at managing things at work, it can be hard to organize stuff with the kids and at home because instead of discrete projects it's a million individual random things to do. You need to brainstorm (or google for ideas) a new system for managing everything so that you do not feel so overwhelmed by it all. You need to hire help WITHOUT your husband's approval (and he needs to recognize that's part of the deal). And you need to figure out a way to recharge yourself so that you can be a better parent when you are with the kids.

You should not have to deal with an absent husband, and I am 100% sympathetic. You also should not feel powerless. It is hard, but there are things you can do to make it better (other than telling your DH to get a new job). People do make it work.

Good luck.

Agree, OP needs to suss this out. I did investment banking - many VPs and MDs left right at 6pm for their train. A couple would stay w us analysts and associates and work away in their offices through dinner. Even the ones w newborns, babies, young kids. Wtf was that? You're supposed to pay your dues and then once more senior delegate out more, but yes still have project driven work or spikes before client mtgs.
Then i moved to private equity. Manage your work well, delegate, and you'll mainly have bad hours in the heat of a transaction. Don't avoid your family. And everyone wa sthsnkful and appreciative if their nannies and spouses.m

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your DH needs to establish boundaries.

There are two possibilities:

1. Your DH is a partner or counsel (ie, secure in his position) and is using work as a way to avoid being at home. He might not even be doing this consciously (in fact, he probably isn't), but if being with the family has become MORE stressful than work - you're always giving him lists of things to do or feeling disconnected from him, the kids are always fighting - he's going to find an excuse to stay at work.

2. Your DH is a senior associate and he's trying to make partner. If this is the case, the two of you need to sit down and discuss what exactly his firm is looking for in a partner (not all actually want insane billable hours, many simply want the hours met, plus exceptional work, building client relationships, etc) and how long you expect this craziness to last. Is he 1 year out from being evaluated? 2 years? Can you hang in there that long, knowing that this is temporary? Can he acknowledge that this will NOT go on forever?

Then you and your DH need to sit down together and decide what is an acceptable amount of work, and he needs to establish and enforce those boundaries. How many nights a week do you need him home for dinner/bedtime? How much time should he be there on weekends? Etc.

Finally, you need to think about what YOU need to help YOU manage with the rest. Being a big law spouse does, frequently, mean being responsible for 99% of the "stuff." Even if you are very good at managing things at work, it can be hard to organize stuff with the kids and at home because instead of discrete projects it's a million individual random things to do. You need to brainstorm (or google for ideas) a new system for managing everything so that you do not feel so overwhelmed by it all. You need to hire help WITHOUT your husband's approval (and he needs to recognize that's part of the deal). And you need to figure out a way to recharge yourself so that you can be a better parent when you are with the kids.

You should not have to deal with an absent husband, and I am 100% sympathetic. You also should not feel powerless. It is hard, but there are things you can do to make it better (other than telling your DH to get a new job). People do make it work.

Good luck.

Agree, OP needs to suss this out. I did investment banking - many VPs and MDs left right at 6pm for their train. A couple would stay w us analysts and associates and work away in their offices through dinner. Even the ones w newborns, babies, young kids. Wtf was that? You're supposed to pay your dues and then once more senior delegate out more, but yes still have project driven work or spikes before client mtgs.
Then i moved to private equity. Manage your work well, delegate, and you'll mainly have bad hours in the heat of a transaction. Don't avoid your family. And everyone wa sthsnkful and appreciative if their nannies and spouses.m

Sounds like it can go both ways.

[Anonymous]

OP, are you taking the advice people gave you about just getting help/a sitter regardless of whether your husband can attend the interview?

I noticed you came back to the thread but didn't see the resolution on that advice, which I thought was sage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m feeling really sad and frustrated today. I am feeling angry at my husband and I know I shouldn’t because it’s not something he has complete control over.
My husband is an attorney at a big law firm and works very long hours. I am basically close to 100% responsible for our kids at any given time. He comes home around 9-10pm most nights but sometimes 10 or 11. And he often has to work to do once he comes home and for hours on end on weekends. Unfortunately there is just no way for him to cut down his hours. So basically it is impossible for him to be an equal partner.
I’m exhausted. I also work, be it part time but it’s not my job that is breaking me down-it’s everything else. It’s just being completely responsible for every aspect of this family’s well being. My husband is the main bread winner but other than financial stuff it’s all on me.
I am just so tired. Tired of being the one who always has to remember to sign the permission forms or remember the date of meetings/special events/birthday parties/dr. Appointments etc... I feel like my mental load is on overdrive all the time. And I’m jealous of people who have family near by. I am jealous of the moms I know who can go out for drinks and things because on those nights their husbands stay home with the kids. And I’m jealous of moms whose husbands are equal partners and can consistently be available for things.
I guess I’m mostly upset because I feel like there is no way to change it. Like my husband legitimately can’t set aside time because if he gets an important work email he literally has to deal with it immediately.
My kids have been fighting non stop for 2 hours.
And all I can think about is all the shit I need to get done this weekend.
I love my husband dearly. And I know it upsets him too. But it’s just hitting me hard today.
I know I need to get some regular babysitters to help me but my husband wants us to meet the babysitter together and obviously that has been a challenge.
There are weeks when it is better and that’s good. But there are also weeks where I hardly ever see him and neither do the kids.
Oh and he wants another baby. I just can’t.
I was putting my younger child to bed last night and started crying because I always imagined reading to our kids together at night and maybe that happens once a month. And it’s just sad.
I’m probably being overly dramatic but I just needed to write it. Thanks for reading.

welcome to the result of feminism!

you could have hired a normal person and not a lawyer.

[Anonymous]

I'm sorry that you are going through this. It sounds like you feel very overwhelmed and frustrated. It's hard taking on so many roles..wife, mother, employee etc. and then feeling we are not being supported by our spouse. I know lonliness, bitterness, and anger start to consume us, which in turn puts stress on our marriage.
My husband also works very long hours. He sees our kids very little and I have struggled with the same feelings that you do. What I have learned from our experience and our own conflict is most of the time my husband wants the same things I do. I don't think he sees and values my contributions. I often think my husband is not on the same page because he is not responding the way I think he should. What has helped us immensely is communication, open, honest, raw communication. We have then worked together to come up with a solution to get on the same page. Sometimes it's him cutting back on hours. Other times he asks for a specific night off so I can go out and do something I love to get a break and he spends some alone time with the kids. I've also learned that if I can focus on his positives instead of the negativity of the situation, there is much more peace in the home! I have found this article to be very helpful! Maybe you can gain some insight from it as well! Best of luck to you! http://bit.ly/2huWOz1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why can't he get another job?

Exactly. Is all that money really worth it? Because it sure doesn't sound like it.

He definitely needs another job. DH and I both quit BigLaw before our first child was born.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am sorry OP.

Before my first child was born, I received invaluable advice -- if I delegated childcare I had to let some decisions go. That was for a nanny and it has served me well - my nanny has been amazing and knows she has my respect because I don't micromanage.

But it could apply to you too, and perhaps more so. your husband is too busy to meet a babysitter and you desperately need one. So he needs to trust you. Likewise with all the other decisions you make. He needs to see this and give you the room to do things that are best for the whole family. If he can't be mature about this a reckoning must be in order or he needs to be home enough to not make these decisions and responsibilities yours alone. Best of luck to you. As for another child I think that is dependent l chest ylucss t and his ability to see this point and more generally respect youcs d your needs.

How would he even know you hired a sitter? He's never around and I assume you would pay her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think lawyers are pretty much farting around all day and night driving up clients bills. No way do they have to work 14-16 hour days and all that time they're actually putting their nose to the grindstone. Your husband is making it seem like his job is so important that he can't ever be around, but it's not true. He's avoiding being a parent and a husband. Call him out or take control of your life.

Really? When my husband is working a ton of hours he is usually writing. When is the last time you wrote a 30 page single page brief in 2 days?? Probably not lately.

Op here. Exactly. My husband does international law and his clients are big names. At least 4 mergers that he has worked on directly have been in the news. He is definitely not “farting around”. When he is home working he is also writing like pp said. Constant writing. I’m sure there are lawyers that waste time and have that luxury.

And he is definitely not avoiding. When we actually take vacations, have the rare family time etc... he is all in. And he is a very good man and a loving husband/father. Unfortunately we just don’t have a normal amount of time together.

You're a saint. Neither my husband nor I wanted to work that much, so we both got jobs that allowed us to be home for dinner every night and not work at home. Of course, we live in a four bedroom three bath house worth less than a million dollars. Many families want the huge mortgage and house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Welcome to motherhood. Unlike you or others here, we couldn't afford babysitters or a housekeeper. You have choices.

I survived. You will too.

I had no family help and I did it while chronically ill.

I'm sorry to hear this, but your lack of sympathy is not at all helpful to her. The goal is to flourish in life, not merely survive, especially if your husband is making hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ Just wanted to add a more personal note, having seen some of the comments just before mine, that I hate when people make it about the job versus the lifestyle.

My dad had a similar job and high income, and it took me years to realize that he didn't NEED to be working insane hours (and missing family vacations, and dinner every night) in order to be making the money he made. He was doing it to avoid us. He was doing it because work became, at a certain point, easier than his family. He was a workaholic. He loved work more than he loved his kids, or my mom.

People really miss the point when they simply tell people in your position that DH should get a different job. Maybe. Maybe he should. But that's not necessarily the main thing that is going on here. (And as I'm not saying he's avoiding you, I'm saying it's more complicated than "the job" that holds him against his will and if only he had a new "job" he'd be happy).

(I'm the PP here who had a dual biglaw marriage and I ended up becoming a SAHM.) This comment above resonates with me. My DH was working insane hours. Then someone said, "You have to make your DH want to come home." I thought about that and realized, whenever he came home, I gave him the second shift. I was friggen exhausted and lonely and he'd walk in and I'd hand him a baby, or over the weekend have him fix something in the house. Why would he want to come home early, for MORE hours of the second shift, when he could stay at work, where he had a crew of attorneys working for him, doing whatever he asked?

So I stopped asking him do do things, and made it nice for him to come home. I've told this story before and I get flamed for it every time, but I hope you read this OP because you know, in life, you don't do what's fair, you do what works. And this worked. Hugs at the door, dinner ready, and any house repair done because I had hired a handyman. He started to come home earlier. And he started to bring work home. He started to be happier and more engaged, and I became happier and less lonely. The flamers don't understand that by doing the thing that in the moment looks like more work, you create a situation that over time gives you less work. "Making it nice for him to come home" is really creating a foundation for YOU to have a better life; the work is short term, the payoff is in the long term.

Who made you want to come home? Or did you just suck it up because you have a vagina?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh, and stop waiting for your husband to get a babysitter. Hire one and get some time for yourself. At least 8 hours a week. You deserve it.

+1

I actually would hire someone for longer. Maybe even a parttime nanny if you can find one and afford one. You need someone who can be an extension of the family and be a partner for you. Especially if there's potentially another baby on the horizon.