D14 Deleting My FB Posts

[Anonymous]

If you know your DD basically spies on you, you take care in what she can record/ photograph/ find.

My ex has access to my house for various reasons. I don't keep anything here I wouldn't want seen. I don't post on FB. I am careful with what I say to kids.

Learn, op.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're her dad. You have no right to just be done with her. And if you choose to be done with her, it will be 100% your own doing, because you're the adult.

OP here.

I didn't mean done with HER. I meant done with tolerating this BS of a 14yo and my ex dictating the rules and causing me to tip-toe through my own life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, you're CERTAIN you didn't leave your FB page logged in on any device? Did she pick up your phone or iPad knowing you'd be logged in?

OP here.

I must say, this post kind of pissed me off. Even if I did leave my computer open and logged on, there is NO excuse for her to grab my password. Can you imagine, for one second, if I did that to my daughter? Stole her password and went onto her Instagram account? She would be calling DCFS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, you're CERTAIN you didn't leave your FB page logged in on any device? Did she pick up your phone or iPad knowing you'd be logged in?

OP here.

I must say, this post kind of pissed me off. Even if I did leave my computer open and logged on, there is NO excuse for her to grab my password. Can you imagine, for one second, if I did that to my daughter? Stole her password and went onto her Instagram account? She would be calling DCFS.

Double standards, OP. You are angry with her yet you don't see that she has a right to be angry with you? Gaslighting much? You carry on like this if you want to, but don't complain in the future when you are completely estranged from your daughter. Actions have consequences, and YOU started it, not her, not your wife.
No means no. That doesn't apply only to rape cases.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you'd probably get different answers if you were talking about a son instead of a daughter. Our society is currently turning out girls who are out of control in an attempt to "empower" them. They're being empowered, but the emphasis is not being placed on the right things. They're becoming insufferable.

+100

And btw, men are not the only ones who feel this way. I am a woman and a mother to daughters and I find this thread to be crazy. I guess I missed the memo where my teenagers start dictating how things go around here.

I'm the mom of boys. I wouldn't post pics of them online if they didn't want me to. Just like I would expect them (or anyone) not to post pictures of me online if I didn't want them to.

My eldest is 19, a straight-A student in a top college, working an internship, an intelligent and delightful young man who respects his parents and helps around the house (when he is here). We have a great relationship. You know how we got here? By my walking the walk, not just talking the talk. I treat my family with kindness and respect, and I expect them to treat me and others that way as well.

My younger son is 14, just like OP's DD. He too gets treated as if his opinions matter. Does that mean he gets his way all the time? Of course not. But I don't need to overrule him at every turn to satisfy my own silly pride or trivial desires or to show him who's boss. He knows who is boss. And just like any good boss, I give him the space he needs to do his thing; I listen to his opinions and ideas and encourage his autonomy; I allow him to find success on his own as much as possible; I provide advice and expertise when asked or when it looks like it is needed; and I step in and take charge if it looks like things are about to go off the rails.

My kids are turning out pretty well, and I have a good relationship with them. Can OP say the same?

[Anonymous]

There is nothing a teenager despises more than hypocrisy. You want respect, the first thing you have to do is be a person worthy of respect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

Thanks for all the replies. I must say, it was an interesting read and definitely gave me some perspective. A lot of it caused me to rethink my position and see things more clearly from her point, and a lot of it felt like a rush to judgment without considering a bigger picture. Fair enough. A few felt pretty harsh (I really don't think of myself as a "bad dad", because I'm not).

FWIW; What I recall of the day the pic was taken was I that as dropped her off for her event, I said something like "Can we take a FB selfie? You can even take it." She said "sure, after I change". She did and then even fixed her hair in a mirror. I handed her my phone and she took a few shots of us smiling. She got out of the car and we said "I love you" and off she went. She was then at her mother's house for the week.

My point being that I truly recall saying it was for FB and allowing her to take it and see it as she did. If that was somehow miscommunicated, I will apologize profusely to her and hope that is enough. If it's not, then I will let it go and hope that time heals things.

I cannot offer more love, support, encouragement, and presence than I have. I have bent over backwards to be a better parent after the awful divorce. But if my best isn’t good enough, then so be it.

I am all for respecting everyone's rights and wishes, but it has to go both ways. Based on this, I will be calmly and gently pointing out all the times she spied on me and sent texts, pics, and recordings to her mother, who then handed them to her lawyers (those guys could make Mother Theresa look like a horrible person) to use against me, and posted some of them on FB with some pretty vitriolic text. I don't think D14 is aware that mom posted her pix on FB during the divorce. I will also be reminding her of the time she accused me of being sexually inappropriate (baseless) around her and a friend and ran to mom with that one… you can guess how fast the lawyers were involved in that one.

So to wrap it all up, I will apologize for whatever mistake I have made. But I will also clearly tell her that she has done just as many things to break my trust and it was my mistake to allow those to continue. The first time she texted pics and reports to mom, I should have taken her phone for good.

I will also change every single one of the almost 400 pwds I have over the coming weeks.

Have you sat her down and explained to her what her mother has done, and what you have done? You can even make it into two columns and show it to her.
This is a difficult time for your child, and at 14 she can't work it all out. She needs to be shown so that you two see what can change for the better. During this exercise, you will see what you need to do, and she will see what she needs to do. It has to be done honestly, without any finger-pointing, since the mere facts are damning enough. The reality is that you did something wrong (post pics when she's not comfortable with it), she did something wrong and her mother did something wrong. When you lay it all out on paper, it's really easy to see who is being way, way, worse than the others.

[Anonymous]

OP here. See embedded comments.

Anonymous wrote:

WAIT.

Looking at previous replies I don't see anyone addressing this line (in bold above) in OP's follow-up post. It leaped out at me.

OP, you're saying that your 14-year-old is the one who has been secretly photographing you and secretly recording conversations you have? Am I actually seeing that right?

If that is the case, you truly "buried the lead" on this by not mentioning that first and foremost in your original post. Stealing your FB password etc. is only the latest problem if she is already taking secret photos and recording conversations. Can you see that? I'm amazed there aren't a heap of posts about this one line buried deep in this post.

Yes. She did this repeatedly during the separation and divorce. Some of it was benign and some of it was damaging. I will be honest and say that I was not perfect, but the way my ex allowed, and even encouraged, her to do this is in excusable and unforgivable.

Anonymous wrote:You and she and her mother, ALL, have huge issues and you and your ex need to find some way to work together or you will both end up with a young adult who can trust no one and nothing, and who is manipulative, because she learned that being manipulative and deceitful is what bought her her mother's approval (maybe yours, too; we don't know all the back story at which you hint). If you are abusing her, yeah, then I could see a teen doing everything she could to get evidence. But short of that circumstance, your DD is so far out of line she's in another universe. And your ex is out of line if she's encouraging this secret recording and photographing. And you're out of line too because you're letting the password theft become your "hill to die on" when you should have dealt with the secret recording (and other problems you don't mention) before this ever happened.

There was no abuse of any kind. I went through a period where I drank a bit too much, but that is long in the past. Ask my ex and she'll say I am a raging alcoholic. I'm not.

I did raise the spying issue back then but not to the degree I should have. Another thing that happened (you'll laugh at this, I hope)...

I found DCUM as a source of support and advice during what was the hardest time of my life. Part of me reading the forum was the "Sex & Relationships - Explicit" forum. My D(then 12) ran into my bedroom when I stepped out, went into my internet history (the computer hadn't slept yet), scrolled down until she saw some DCUM topics about sex, took a pic with her phone, and sent that to her mom. One of the thread topics was something like "Sex With Prostitutes". She asks her mom if I was seeing prostitutes. Blah, blah, blah... lawyers, etc. For the record, I don't see hookers at all.

Anonymous wrote:OP, it sounds like you and your ex have a horrible relationship; even if you aren't in contact, it's still horrible because it is making [i]your child do horrible things. You, ex and DD need intensive and committed therapy with a therapist who is extremely experienced in handling the ex-spouses after contentious divorces. Does your DD already get therapy or counseling? If so, it's not working well enough to make her feel she can stand up to mom or to you either. If not, then your DD also needs her own, separate therapist, someone very skilled in working with teenagers. She needs a place to vent about both you and her mom and she needs a "safe" third party adult, who is not you or her mom, to tell her that behaviors like stealing passwords and photographing and recording people are not only wrong, they're symptoms of something that needs to change.

I have tried to get my ex into counseling sessions with me but she refused. She did go to a few sessions with my daughter but ended up storming out, leaving my daughter there. The therapist said she's never seen anything like it. I tried to get 8 mandatory joint counseling sessions written into the divorce decree as a way to get her to co-parent more effectively. She refused through her lawyers. Counseling will never happen. I, on the other hand, have been an advocate and facilitator of my daughter and I going both together and individually.

Anonymous wrote:If you say you and your ex could never agree to do what a therapist advises about your DD, then you both are giving up on your child. Yes, she was wrong to steal your password. If I'm reading you right and she has been recording/photographing you, she was wrong to do that. And wrong to report to her mom. But your anger with her mother is blinding you to the fact that both you and your ex are turning[i] this child into a sneaky, manipulative kid. She is only four years from leaving home for good, OP. Swallow your anger and tell your ex that you three all need to agree to work with a therapist.

Never going to happen. Only because of her, not me. It is 100% her fault this is not possible. The therapist said she has never seen someone so impossible to deal with...

Anonymous wrote: If ex won't do it, you and daughter need to go. I wish a court could order you and ex into therapy together solely for the purpose of teaching you not to put this teen in the middle of your anger with each other. I'm not negating what DD did. I would be furious, as you are. But DD is doing what she thinks she has to do to impose her own control on her out-of-control emotional life--can you step back from anger at her, and see that? And if you think DD is otherwise fine and dandy because the divorce is done, and don't see that a child of an ugly divorce is still feeling she lacks control -- you do indeed need to be working with a therapist. Please, for her sake, do it immediately. If you don't, once she goes off to college you likely won't see her or have a relationship with her again.

You may be hearing some anger, but in my place, after what has transpired, you would be angry too. In general, I am pretty calm and balanced and have the ability to really look at all sides and self examine and admit my own faults.

As one of my friends who know the whole story just told me after hearing what happened just said "Wow, what an awful and abusive thing to have a dad who puts such a loving and supportive post on FB about how proud he is. That's pretty abusive and horrible parenting." This is just insane.

[Anonymous]

You don't get it and you never will. Posting about her on FB against her wishes shows that you have no respect for her. And your friend is bolstering you by saying she should be grateful? Gross. She did something wrong. So did you. You are expecting rational behavior from a 14 year old who has been through a nasty divorce. That's nuts.

[Anonymous]

Op, please don't hut your daughter with a list of all the things she's done wrong. You need to apologise to her for posting her pic without her permission. Find out how she got into your fb account. Talk with her about that. Then MOVE FORWARD.

You should get some counseling for how to deal with this dynamic. But it shouldn't involve countering her complaints with accusations of PAST issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you'd probably get different answers if you were talking about a son instead of a daughter. Our society is currently turning out girls who are out of control in an attempt to "empower" them. They're being empowered, but the emphasis is not being placed on the right things. They're becoming insufferable.

+100

And btw, men are not the only ones who feel this way. I am a woman and a mother to daughters and I find this thread to be crazy. I guess I missed the memo where my teenagers start dictating how things go around here.

I'm the mom of boys. I wouldn't post pics of them online if they didn't want me to. Just like I would expect them (or anyone) not to post pictures of me online if I didn't want them to.

My eldest is 19, a straight-A student in a top college, working an internship, an intelligent and delightful young man who respects his parents and helps around the house (when he is here). We have a great relationship. You know how we got here? By my walking the walk, not just talking the talk. I treat my family with kindness and respect, and I expect them to treat me and others that way as well.

My younger son is 14, just like OP's DD. He too gets treated as if his opinions matter. Does that mean he gets his way all the time? Of course not. But I don't need to overrule him at every turn to satisfy my own silly pride or trivial desires or to show him who's boss. He knows who is boss. And just like any good boss, I give him the space he needs to do his thing; I listen to his opinions and ideas and encourage his autonomy; I allow him to find success on his own as much as possible; I provide advice and expertise when asked or when it looks like it is needed; and I step in and take charge if it looks like things are about to go off the rails.

My kids are turning out pretty well, and I have a good relationship with them. Can OP say the same?

Obnoxious. Give me a break. Count your lucky stars, lady. Sure, you did your part in helping your kids to become successful. But you're kidding yourself if you think your kids' natural inclinations and personalities didn't have a huge impact on how they got to where they are.

All I hear in your post is self-congratulation and sanctimony. Go kick rocks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, you're CERTAIN you didn't leave your FB page logged in on any device? Did she pick up your phone or iPad knowing you'd be logged in?

OP here.

I must say, this post kind of pissed me off. Even if I did leave my computer open and logged on, there is NO excuse for her to grab my password. Can you imagine, for one second, if I did that to my daughter? Stole her password and went onto her Instagram account? She would be calling DCFS.

Your level of anger about this suggests that in your heart, you are confusing your daughter with your ex-wife.

My dad did this. Even slipped a few times and called me Marla. I'm 50. Still not over those years of vitriol. My mom deserves her share the blame for what happened in their marriage, but none of the blame for how he chose to treat me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. See embedded comments.

Anonymous wrote:

WAIT.

Looking at previous replies I don't see anyone addressing this line (in bold above) in OP's follow-up post. It leaped out at me.

OP, you're saying that your 14-year-old is the one who has been secretly photographing you and secretly recording conversations you have? Am I actually seeing that right?

If that is the case, you truly "buried the lead" on this by not mentioning that first and foremost in your original post. Stealing your FB password etc. is only the latest problem if she is already taking secret photos and recording conversations. Can you see that? I'm amazed there aren't a heap of posts about this one line buried deep in this post.

Yes. She did this repeatedly during the separation and divorce. Some of it was benign and some of it was damaging. I will be honest and say that I was not perfect, but the way my ex allowed, and even encouraged, her to do this is in excusable and unforgivable.

Anonymous wrote:You and she and her mother, ALL, have huge issues and you and your ex need to find some way to work together or you will both end up with a young adult who can trust no one and nothing, and who is manipulative, because she learned that being manipulative and deceitful is what bought her her mother's approval (maybe yours, too; we don't know all the back story at which you hint). If you are abusing her, yeah, then I could see a teen doing everything she could to get evidence. But short of that circumstance, your DD is so far out of line she's in another universe. And your ex is out of line if she's encouraging this secret recording and photographing. And you're out of line too because you're letting the password theft become your "hill to die on" when you should have dealt with the secret recording (and other problems you don't mention) before this ever happened.

There was no abuse of any kind. I went through a period where I drank a bit too much, but that is long in the past. Ask my ex and she'll say I am a raging alcoholic. I'm not.

I did raise the spying issue back then but not to the degree I should have. Another thing that happened (you'll laugh at this, I hope)...

I found DCUM as a source of support and advice during what was the hardest time of my life. Part of me reading the forum was the "Sex & Relationships - Explicit" forum. My D(then 12) ran into my bedroom when I stepped out, went into my internet history (the computer hadn't slept yet), scrolled down until she saw some DCUM topics about sex, took a pic with her phone, and sent that to her mom. One of the thread topics was something like "Sex With Prostitutes". She asks her mom if I was seeing prostitutes. Blah, blah, blah... lawyers, etc. For the record, I don't see hookers at all.

Anonymous wrote:OP, it sounds like you and your ex have a horrible relationship; even if you aren't in contact, it's still horrible because it is making [i]your child do horrible things. You, ex and DD need intensive and committed therapy with a therapist who is extremely experienced in handling the ex-spouses after contentious divorces. Does your DD already get therapy or counseling? If so, it's not working well enough to make her feel she can stand up to mom or to you either. If not, then your DD also needs her own, separate therapist, someone very skilled in working with teenagers. She needs a place to vent about both you and her mom and she needs a "safe" third party adult, who is not you or her mom, to tell her that behaviors like stealing passwords and photographing and recording people are not only wrong, they're symptoms of something that needs to change.

I have tried to get my ex into counseling sessions with me but she refused. She did go to a few sessions with my daughter but ended up storming out, leaving my daughter there. The therapist said she's never seen anything like it. I tried to get 8 mandatory joint counseling sessions written into the divorce decree as a way to get her to co-parent more effectively. She refused through her lawyers. Counseling will never happen. I, on the other hand, have been an advocate and facilitator of my daughter and I going both together and individually.

Anonymous wrote:If you say you and your ex could never agree to do what a therapist advises about your DD, then you both are giving up on your child. Yes, she was wrong to steal your password. If I'm reading you right and she has been recording/photographing you, she was wrong to do that. And wrong to report to her mom. But your anger with her mother is blinding you to the fact that both you and your ex are turning[i] this child into a sneaky, manipulative kid. She is only four years from leaving home for good, OP. Swallow your anger and tell your ex that you three all need to agree to work with a therapist.

Never going to happen. Only because of her, not me. It is 100% her fault this is not possible. The therapist said she has never seen someone so impossible to deal with...

Anonymous wrote: If ex won't do it, you and daughter need to go. I wish a court could order you and ex into therapy together solely for the purpose of teaching you not to put this teen in the middle of your anger with each other. I'm not negating what DD did. I would be furious, as you are. But DD is doing what she thinks she has to do to impose her own control on her out-of-control emotional life--can you step back from anger at her, and see that? And if you think DD is otherwise fine and dandy because the divorce is done, and don't see that a child of an ugly divorce is still feeling she lacks control -- you do indeed need to be working with a therapist. Please, for her sake, do it immediately. If you don't, once she goes off to college you likely won't see her or have a relationship with her again.

You may be hearing some anger, but in my place, after what has transpired, you would be angry too. In general, I am pretty calm and balanced and have the ability to really look at all sides and self examine and admit my own faults.

As one of my friends who know the whole story just told me after hearing what happened just said "Wow, what an awful and abusive thing to have a dad who puts such a loving and supportive post on FB about how proud he is. That's pretty abusive and horrible parenting." This is just insane.

I think the suggestion "don't drink and type" is in order here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, you're CERTAIN you didn't leave your FB page logged in on any device? Did she pick up your phone or iPad knowing you'd be logged in?

OP here.

I must say, this post kind of pissed me off. Even if I did leave my computer open and logged on, there is NO excuse for her to grab my password. Can you imagine, for one second, if I did that to my daughter? Stole her password and went onto her Instagram account? She would be calling DCFS.

Your level of anger about this suggests that in your heart, you are confusing your daughter with your ex-wife.

My dad did this. Even slipped a few times and called me Marla. I'm 50. Still not over those years of vitriol. My mom deserves her share the blame for what happened in their marriage, but none of the blame for how he chose to treat me.

Stop projecting your divorce issues onto this kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You should not post pics of your daughter. My 14 yr old would be beyond upset if I did that.

If you posted her picture? Even if you got her approval that she looked good in the pic?

Not if she'd said "no".