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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]OP here.  See embedded comments.

[quote=Anonymous]

WAIT.

Looking at previous replies I don't see anyone addressing this line (in bold above) in OP's follow-up post. It leaped out at me.

OP, you're saying that your 14-year-old is the one who has been secretly photographing you and secretly recording conversations you have? Am I actually seeing that right?

If that is the case, you truly "buried the lead" on this by not mentioning that first and foremost in your original post. Stealing your FB password etc. is only the latest problem if she is already taking secret photos and recording conversations. Can you see that? I'm amazed there aren't a heap of posts about this one line buried deep in this post.[/quote]

Yes.  She did this repeatedly during the separation and divorce. Some of it was benign and some of it was damaging.  I will be honest and say that I was not perfect, but the way my ex allowed, and even encouraged, her to do this is in excusable and unforgivable.

[quote=Anonymous]You and she and her mother, ALL, have huge issues and you and your ex need to find some way to work together or you will both end up with a young adult who can trust no one and nothing, and who is manipulative, because she learned that being manipulative and deceitful is what bought her her mother's approval (maybe yours, too; we don't know all the back story at which you hint). If you are abusing her, yeah, then I could see a teen doing everything she could to get evidence. But short of that circumstance, your DD is so far out of line she's in another universe. And your ex is out of line if she's encouraging this secret recording and photographing. And you're out of line too because you're letting the password theft become your "hill to die on" when you should have dealt with the secret recording (and other problems you don't mention) before this ever happened.[/quote]

There was no abuse of any kind.  I went through a period where I drank a bit too much, but that is long in the past. Ask my ex and she'll say I am a raging alcoholic. I'm not.

I did raise the spying issue back then but not to the degree I should have.  [b]Another thing that happened (you'll laugh at this, I hope)...[/b][i]

I found DCUM as a source of support and advice during what was the hardest time of my life. Part of me reading the forum was the "Sex & Relationships - Explicit" forum. My D(then 12) ran into my bedroom when I stepped out, went into my internet history (the computer hadn't slept yet), scrolled down until she saw some DCUM topics about sex, took a pic with her phone, and sent that to her mom.  One of the thread topics was something like "Sex With Prostitutes".  She asks her mom if I was seeing prostitutes.  Blah, blah, blah... lawyers, etc.  For the record, I don't see hookers at all.

[quote=Anonymous]OP, it sounds like you and your ex have a horrible relationship; even if you aren't in contact, it's still horrible because it is making [i]your child[/i] do horrible things. You, ex and DD need intensive and committed therapy with a therapist who is extremely experienced in handling the ex-spouses after contentious divorces. Does your DD already get therapy or counseling? If so, it's not working well enough to make her feel she can stand up to mom or to you either. If not, then your DD also needs her own, separate therapist, someone very skilled in working with teenagers. She needs a place to vent about both you and her mom and she needs a "safe" third party adult, who is not you or her mom, to tell her that behaviors like stealing passwords and photographing and recording people are not only wrong, they're symptoms of something that needs to change. [/quote]

I have tried to get my ex into counseling sessions with me but she refused. She did go to a few sessions with my daughter but ended up storming out, leaving my daughter there.  The therapist said she's never seen anything like it.  I tried to get 8 mandatory joint counseling sessions written into the divorce decree as a way to get her to co-parent more effectively.  She refused through her lawyers.  Counseling will never happen.  I, on the other hand, have been an advocate and facilitator of my daughter and I going both together and individually.

[quote=Anonymous]If you say you and your ex could never agree to do what a therapist advises about your DD, then you both are giving up on your child. Yes, she was wrong to steal your password. If I'm reading you right and she has been recording/photographing you, she was wrong to do that. And wrong to report to her mom. But your anger with her mother is blinding you to the fact that both you and your ex are [i]turning[/i][i] this child into a sneaky, manipulative kid. She is only four years from leaving home for good, OP. Swallow your anger and tell your ex that you three all need to agree to work with a therapist.[/quote]

Never going to happen. Only because of her, not me.  It is 100% her fault this is not possible. The therapist said she has never seen someone so impossible to deal with...

[quote=Anonymous] If ex won't do it, you and daughter need to go. I wish a court could order you and ex into therapy together solely for the purpose of teaching you not to put this teen in the middle of your anger with each other. I'm not negating what DD did. I would be furious, as you are. But DD is doing what she thinks she has to do to impose her own control on her out-of-control emotional life--can you step back from anger at her, and see that? And if you think DD is otherwise fine and dandy because the divorce is done, and don't see that a child of an ugly divorce is still feeling she lacks control -- you do indeed need to be working with a therapist. Please, for her sake, do it immediately. If you don't, once she goes off to college you likely won't see her or have a relationship with her again.[/quote]

You may be hearing some anger, but in my place, after what has transpired, you would be angry too.  In general, I am pretty calm and balanced and have the ability to really look at all sides and self examine and admit my own faults.

As one of my friends who know the whole story just told me after hearing what happened just said "Wow, what an awful and abusive thing to have a dad who puts such a loving and supportive post on FB about how proud he is.  That's pretty abusive and horrible parenting."  This is just insane.[/quote]

I think the suggestion "don't drink and type" is in order here.[/quote]

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