Speechless

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This does not sound like bullying - I hate how that word gets thrown around.

It sounds to me like they were having fun, got carried away, and went too far. Help your daughter clean up, talk about it a little, then let it go.

PP, that's SO funny how you just dismissed OP's daughter's feelings.


It wasn't funny to her, so it's NOT having fun. It's mean behavior. And if it's mean, time to intervene.

Maybe you have younger children, but your advice here is absolutely wrong. You do not intervene everytime someone is mean to your child. At this age, the child MUST learn how to handle things herself. Are you going to intervene when someone is mean to your child in high school? In college? The only way she will learn is if she has practice.

I do agree that OP's DD should be validated. I think what PP was saying was that its possible the other girls thought this was a light hearted, fun joke. They were wrong, obviously, because OP's DD's was hurt. but its possible they didn't see that coming and will feel remorse. That would be the best outcome. And it won't happen if Mama Bear calls out the other parents.

Actually I am the parent of middle school and elementary aged children. And I am a principal of an elementary school who has done quite a bit of research and practice in the area of bullying prevention. I'm sorry PP, but your point is so off base and indicative of an attitude that perpetuates mean and bullying behaviors. Expecting kids to just handle things on their own is exactly the WRONG thing to do, both as teachers and as parents. We have to be proactive AND reactive. Yes, if it is mean, you have to intervene and explicitly teach kids why that behavior is not okay. I'm not saying we should tar and feather these girls. But it does need to be addressed head on. And yes, when I know, learn about and/or observe mean behavior, I do intervene. I let everyone know, both the kid(s) who were being mean as well as the kid(s) who were targeted, that the behavior is not how we treat one another. It is up to adults to help kids figure out what it acceptable behavior and to be explicit about that.

1. I agree that parents have to intervene when there is bullying and I am aware of what the research shows, but not everything that is mean is bullying. The term is way over used. This was a prank. If its not part of a larger pattern, it isn't bullying and it does a real disservice to kids who have been bullied to misuse that term. That is not to say its OK. I agree with everyone who says OP should validate her DD's feelings. But if the parents are called in and OP goes on the war path, you better believe that her DD will be bullied in the future. And she wouldn't have learned the very important lesson of how to tell people when they are behaving in a way that hurts her. Think about how important that life lesson is.

2. I believe you when you say you are the principal of an elementary school, but yowza I'm pretty surprised. That a principal would even go on these boards like this, when she may have parents of students of hers on these boards, that she would use such strong and insulting language, just seems really unprofessional to me. And the emoticons! Dear God, the promiscuous use of emoticons! It just seems childish. All I can say is that I'm glad my kids are teens so I don't have to worry that you are their principal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This does not sound like bullying - I hate how that word gets thrown around.

It sounds to me like they were having fun, got carried away, and went too far. Help your daughter clean up, talk about it a little, then let it go.

PP, that's SO funny how you just dismissed OP's daughter's feelings.


It wasn't funny to her, so it's NOT having fun. It's mean behavior. And if it's mean, time to intervene.

Maybe you have younger children, [b]but your advice here is absolutely wrong. You do not intervene everytime someone is mean to your child. At this age, the child MUST learn how to handle things herself. Are you going to intervene when someone is mean to your child in high school? In college? The only way she will learn is if she has practice. [/b]

I do agree that OP's DD should be validated. I think what PP was saying was that its possible the other girls thought this was a light hearted, fun joke. They were wrong, obviously, because OP's DD's was hurt. but its possible they didn't see that coming and will feel remorse. That would be the best outcome. And it won't happen if Mama Bear calls out the other parents.

Actually I am the parent of middle school and elementary aged children. And I am a principal of an elementary school who has done quite a bit of research and practice in the area of bullying prevention. I'm sorry PP, but your point is so off base and indicative of an attitude that perpetuates mean and bullying behaviors. Expecting kids to just handle things on their own is exactly the WRONG thing to do, both as teachers and as parents. We have to be proactive AND reactive. Yes, if it is mean, you have to intervene and explicitly teach kids why that behavior is not okay. I'm not saying we should tar and feather these girls. But it does need to be addressed head on. And yes, when I know, learn about and/or observe mean behavior, I do intervene. I let everyone know, both the kid(s) who were being mean as well as the kid(s) who were targeted, that the behavior is not how we treat one another. It is up to adults to help kids figure out what it acceptable behavior and to be explicit about that.

Saying that the PPs point was off base and indicative of bullying behavior is not correct because anti-bullying strategies also help kids to practice what to do when a responsible adult is not available.

What the PP said was that kids need to learn how to handle things on their own or else they won't be able to apply the necessary strategies when they are needed; not that kids need to figure out solutions without parental guidance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

1. I agree that parents have to intervene when there is bullying and I am aware of what the research shows, but not everything that is mean is bullying. The term is way over used. This was a prank. If its not part of a larger pattern, it isn't bullying and it does a real disservice to kids who have been bullied to misuse that term. That is not to say its OK. I agree with everyone who says OP should validate her DD's feelings. But if the parents are called in and OP goes on the war path, you better believe that her DD will be bullied in the future. And she wouldn't have learned the very important lesson of how to tell people when they are behaving in a way that hurts her. Think about how important that life lesson is.

2. I believe you when you say you are the principal of an elementary school, but yowza I'm pretty surprised. That a principal would even go on these boards like this, when she may have parents of students of hers on these boards, that she would use such strong and insulting language, just seems really unprofessional to me. And the emoticons! Dear God, the promiscuous use of emoticons! It just seems childish. All I can say is that I'm glad my kids are teens so I don't have to worry that you are their principal.

(OP, I apologize for going off on this derail with the PP.)

PP, are you saying that it's unprofessional for an elementary school principal to post anonymously about a general topic on an Internet board because there might be parents of her students who are also posting anonymously on an Internet board? And if so -- why?

And what "strong and insulting language" are you referring to?

And "the promiscuous use of emoticons"? It's not even clear that the principal was the one who was using emoticons "promiscuously". But what if the principal was? It's unprofessional for school principals to use emoticons? Who else shouldn't use emoticons?

[Anonymous]

I think the PP, who is the principal, is trying to say is we as adults have to give kids the tools to deal with these behaviors before they can actually handle them on their own. And, that includes an adult calling the behavior out and using it as a teachable moment with all parties involved. This involves explaining to the perpetrators why the behavior was inappropriate and having time alone with the targeted kid to tell them how they can address bullying behavior when and if it occurs. Kids can't learn these skills on their own and need adults to show them the right way.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thank you call for your helpful comments.

I did help my DD clean up, and had her sleep with me in my room. It took her until 2 am to fall asleep, as she was crying and in disbelief. I myself was so distraught I had chest pains and did not sleep until 5 am.

More detail: DD considers these girls to be her best friends at school. This is what was so very painful for her. The two friends typically do not get along at school, and DD has been a bridge between them, as they seem to trust her. DD is even keeled and doesn't get into drama or gossip, but that is what i think attracts these girls to her. One of them is typically very compassionate, and this was completely out of character for her.

This is what I did with the situation:

I sent a short email to both parents at 3:30 am, letting them know there had been an issue that we need to talk about, nothing urgent, and that I will be dropping their daughters off the next morning early.

I waited for the girls to wake up, which was 7:15 am. I asked the three girls to get together with me and sit down, in as non threatening a way as I could. I told them that something not very nice happened the night before, and described to the two friends that DD's face was pretty much defaced, that she was terrified when she saw herself in the mirror, that she cried herself to sleep until 2 am, not believing they did this to her. I then asked DD to describe her feelings, which she did to some extent (I wish she had been more vocal, but she was not. It was a good way for her to practice saying how she feels though. I agree with previous posters that I need to work with her on that)

The friends at first tried to deny it ("oh we only put lipgloss on her lips"), to which I said "let's not go there, I know what happened." I was very even keeled throughout. I told them I know they were not meaning to hurt anyone, and asked them how they would feel if friends did that to them during a sleepover. They both said they would feel hurt. DD also tried to convey to them how painful this was to her. I explained to the girls that I will be dropping them off at home asap after breakfast, and that I have already notified their parents that the sleepover will be ending soon. At this point they got tearful and appeared scared they would get in trouble with their parents. I was throughout very nice to them. I explained to them that DD considers them her best friends, and that today is a great day to take time to reflect on treating friends with love and respect, and good day to think about why they were sent home early.

I then called each parent, and calmly discussed the above. The parents seemed concerned and disappointed in their daughters. The first parent was less vocal, but seemed concerned and compassionate. The second parent was very disappointed and handled it so very well.

I dropped off both girls at home by 9 am, told the parents that this is an opportunity to teach our girls better behavior. DD gave each one a hug at drop off, and the girls hugged her back and seemed sorry and concerned at being in trouble.

The ONLY concern I have now is why DD was not more vocal. I need to talk to her about that and help her stand up for herself.

For the people who refer to pranks as part of growing up, I don’t accept that. I frankly don’t care that hurtful behavior may be commonplace when growing up. It is hurtful, cruel behavior and needs to be changed, and if it is commonplace, we need to evolve beyond it. When we sleep, we are vulnerable. If someone takes advantage of that, they need to be taught respect and boundaries so that we can give them a chance to trust them again, slowly.

I don’t think our friends meant to harm. I think they acted very stupidly and without thinking, did not stop to think about consequences, and I think after today they will think twice about pulling something like this again, at least to DD. I hope they grow beyond this to develop more understanding and compassion.

More importantly, I hope DD grows to stand up for herself and be more vocal when something is not right, and it is my responsibility to make sure that happens.

Love to all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This does not sound like bullying - I hate how that word gets thrown around.

It sounds to me like they were having fun, got carried away, and went too far. Help your daughter clean up, talk about it a little, then let it go.

PP, that's SO funny how you just dismissed OP's daughter's feelings.


It wasn't funny to her, so it's NOT having fun. It's mean behavior. And if it's mean, time to intervene.

Maybe you have younger children, but your advice here is absolutely wrong. You do not intervene everytime someone is mean to your child. At this age, the child MUST learn how to handle things herself. Are you going to intervene when someone is mean to your child in high school? In college? The only way she will learn is if she has practice.

I do agree that OP's DD should be validated. I think what PP was saying was that its possible the other girls thought this was a light hearted, fun joke. They were wrong, obviously, because OP's DD's was hurt. but its possible they didn't see that coming and will feel remorse. That would be the best outcome. And it won't happen if Mama Bear calls out the other parents.

Actually I am the parent of middle school and elementary aged children. And I am a principal of an elementary school who has done quite a bit of research and practice in the area of bullying prevention. I'm sorry PP, but your point is so off base and indicative of an attitude that perpetuates mean and bullying behaviors. Expecting kids to just handle things on their own is exactly the WRONG thing to do, both as teachers and as parents. We have to be proactive AND reactive. Yes, if it is mean, you have to intervene and explicitly teach kids why that behavior is not okay. I'm not saying we should tar and feather these girls. But it does need to be addressed head on. And yes, when I know, learn about and/or observe mean behavior, I do intervene. I let everyone know, both the kid(s) who were being mean as well as the kid(s) who were targeted, that the behavior is not how we treat one another. It is up to adults to help kids figure out what it acceptable behavior and to be explicit about that.

It scares me that you are a principal. You can validate someone's feelings and introduce alternate explanations for someone's actions. People feel differently when they understand a situation differently. Have you never felt one way when someone did/said something but then after talking it through or hearing another interpretation you realize that you misunderstood or misinterpreted the person and/or their intentions and now you feel differently. Your insistence that these are mean girls and that this is bullying and that you would intervene and teach these mean girls a lesson is pretty scary. What about talking to the other girls first to understand what happened from their perspective? What about discussing how misunderstanding and misconceptions happen and that is important to talk about things before jumping to conclusions? What about trying to help the girls work out this situation in a way that doesn't separate the girls into mean girls and victims? What about looking at the history of the friendship and realizing that likely this is resolvable without ending the friendship? Someone this you can do without an adult jumping in the middle and taking over. Op can talk to her daughter about what she could say to help her friends know how she perceived it and to better understand their intentions. Kids do need to learn these skills and they need to know that adults have confidence in them being able to handle situations with adult guidance but without adult interference. Her daughter might come back and say she tried to have that conversation and it didn't go well and adult action might happen at some point to support her daughter. However your approach to this is quite horrifying. You may have done too much research on bullying prevention and not enough on conflict resolution, communication skills, understanding perspectives, assertiveness, problem solving etc...

[Anonymous]

OP, thanks for the update. I think you handled it well.

[Anonymous]

OP I know you are hurting, but you went a bit overboard. Next time something like this happens, take a few hours before you react.
Emailing the parents at 3:30? Telling them at drop off that this is an opportunity to teach our girls better behavior? Of course after you called them, they understood that.
I think you would have been better served to talk with your daughter the next day about coping strategies. You could have still discussed with the girls and parents the next day at drop off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, thanks for the update. I think you handled it well.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, thanks for the update. I think you handled it well.

Me, too. And it sounds like the girls are good kids who made a bad decision. Thanks for letting us know what happened and great job being there for your daughter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you call for your helpful comments.

I did help my DD clean up, and had her sleep with me in my room. It took her until 2 am to fall asleep, as she was crying and in disbelief. I myself was so distraught I had chest pains and did not sleep until 5 am.

This to me is concerning. It was glitter on her face. For her to be crying for hours and for you to get chest pain over this is pretty indicative that neither of you have very good coping skills. I can see her being upset - sure but upset to the extent that you both were? Yikes. How are either of you ever going to handle anything that is bigger than glitter on her face that was intended as a prank by her best friends. You are going to end up hospitalized for mental breakdowns if something that is actually mean or bad does happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you call for your helpful comments.

I did help my DD clean up, and had her sleep with me in my room. It took her until 2 am to fall asleep, as she was crying and in disbelief. I myself was so distraught I had chest pains and did not sleep until 5 am.

This to me is concerning. It was glitter on her face. For her to be crying for hours and for you to get chest pain over this is pretty indicative that neither of you have very good coping skills. I can see her being upset - sure but upset to the extent that you both were? Yikes. How are either of you ever going to handle anything that is bigger than glitter on her face that was intended as a prank by her best friends. You are going to end up hospitalized for mental breakdowns if something that is actually mean or bad does happen.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This to me is concerning. It was glitter on her face. For her to be crying for hours and for you to get chest pain over this is pretty indicative that neither of you have very good coping skills. I can see her being upset - sure but upset to the extent that you both were? Yikes. How are either of you ever going to handle anything that is bigger than glitter on her face that was intended as a prank by her best friends. You are going to end up hospitalized for mental breakdowns if something that is actually mean or bad does happen.

Perhaps you don't remember what it's like to be a middle school girl? And perhaps you are not considering that even people who are not middle school girls are not usually at their rational best in the middle of the night?

[Anonymous]

I am also concerned that this event caused you chest pains for hours. I would have taken everyone home in the morning and discussed with your daughter what happened, and how she would like you to handle it.

[Anonymous]

I'm so glad to hear the outcome, OP. It was a pretty harmless prank, and their claim it was only lipgloss with sparkles is believable based on your description. BUT, all that matters is how it made the daughter feel. Parents should not get so wrapped up in what our kids do that we feel as anxious as they do. I think that's why she clammed up: you were doing all the work for her. What the daughter felt was all that needed to be conveyed to these friends, so they could understand, ask questions and sort it out. It might have been better to coach her calmly but let her decide how to handle it. But all's well that ends well.