When to tell kids the truth about their father’s adultery as reason for divorce

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband had an affair (which did not lead to divorce) and we never told the kids. I would be really cautious to share this with children . . . it feels invasive and vindictive. If Daddy runs off with OW and starts living with her right away, I think that will be obvious to the kids. But if he doesn't leave *for* a particular woman and simply because he made the marriage a big old mess, then I would be focusing on building a healthy coparenting relationship.

IMO marriages don't break down because of affairs; they break down because of what caused the affair. And no, the answer is not "dead bedroom." The answer is whatever personality flaws led one spouse to make the unhealthy choice to cheat rather than the healthy choice to communicate, cope, do self-care, ask for a separation or open marriage, etc. You got divorced because your ex was conflict-avoidant and low on empathy and self-awareness, for example. And those issues will absolutely impact his relationship with the kids going forward, but as an ex it becomes less an issue of you managing that and more an issue of you supporting your kids, modeling healthy adulthood, and setting boundaries where appropriate (no introducing new partners until both exes agree or it's been 6 months, etc.).

Regarding this dead bedroom argument, I do agree that it's unfair to change a marriage into a sexless one unilaterally. Sometimes it can't be helped due to physical limitations, but you can still check in with your partner and go over your options. TBH I think in many ways the classic dead bedroom where one spouse just assumes it's fine and resents that their spouse "badgers" them for sex is very similar to the process through which cheaters justify affairs ("I know it's wrong but s/he's so awful that I don't care"). You always have the choice to demonstrate more empathy, to try harder to communicate, to find ways to connect that satisfy both of you. And if, from that respectful and compassionate place, you decide that your differences are irreconcilable, then you will begin separate lives from a much healthier place.

This is all very insightful. I am the guy people are vilifying above, and you are dead on correct that both my wife's shutting down and my cheating came from conflict avoidant and ultimately selfish decisions. It's good to recognize it so I don't make the same mistake in the future.

I disagree. I stopped having sex with my xH and did explained to him multiple times what I needed to re-kindle things. He refused and instead would badger me until I gave in, which felt like assault and made me withdraw even more.

Every woman I know who lost interest in sex with their H felt the same. They explained what they needed and their H dismissed them, instead forcing them, accusing them of intentionally withholding, etc. Often for years.

They are intentionally withholding, as they have every right to do.

For me, I wasn’t intentionally withholding. That implies I did it as punishment. It was that I didn’t want to have sex with him.

You explained to him your quid-pro-quo and he was unable or unwilling to meet it, so you withheld, as is your right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband had an affair (which did not lead to divorce) and we never told the kids. I would be really cautious to share this with children . . . it feels invasive and vindictive. If Daddy runs off with OW and starts living with her right away, I think that will be obvious to the kids. But if he doesn't leave *for* a particular woman and simply because he made the marriage a big old mess, then I would be focusing on building a healthy coparenting relationship.

IMO marriages don't break down because of affairs; they break down because of what caused the affair. And no, the answer is not "dead bedroom." The answer is whatever personality flaws led one spouse to make the unhealthy choice to cheat rather than the healthy choice to communicate, cope, do self-care, ask for a separation or open marriage, etc. You got divorced because your ex was conflict-avoidant and low on empathy and self-awareness, for example. And those issues will absolutely impact his relationship with the kids going forward, but as an ex it becomes less an issue of you managing that and more an issue of you supporting your kids, modeling healthy adulthood, and setting boundaries where appropriate (no introducing new partners until both exes agree or it's been 6 months, etc.).

Regarding this dead bedroom argument, I do agree that it's unfair to change a marriage into a sexless one unilaterally. Sometimes it can't be helped due to physical limitations, but you can still check in with your partner and go over your options. TBH I think in many ways the classic dead bedroom where one spouse just assumes it's fine and resents that their spouse "badgers" them for sex is very similar to the process through which cheaters justify affairs ("I know it's wrong but s/he's so awful that I don't care"). You always have the choice to demonstrate more empathy, to try harder to communicate, to find ways to connect that satisfy both of you. And if, from that respectful and compassionate place, you decide that your differences are irreconcilable, then you will begin separate lives from a much healthier place.

This is all very insightful. I am the guy people are vilifying above, and you are dead on correct that both my wife's shutting down and my cheating came from conflict avoidant and ultimately selfish decisions. It's good to recognize it so I don't make the same mistake in the future.

I don't agree with the statement that a classic dead bedroom spouse assumes it's just fine. Marriage is based on a premise that you are exclusive. I did not ASSUME that it was fine to have sex less frequently, I THOUGHT my exH was getting older and thus had lower sex drive. I only had 2 other sexual partners prior to him in my 20s, and how the heck I would know what sexual drive of a 55 y.o. man is? I thought he was satisfied having sex 2-4 times/month, and not every day as when he was 35 and I was 24.

But I do agree that affairs happen when one spouse is selfish and ego driven. My exH is an extremely wealthy person (over $25mm net worth). Just like the male PP above, he always "delegated" childcare on me, and was telling he was getting tired from work travel. I did work full time at a lower paying job basically putting my career on back burner. But the full time job+chid care did not give me ANY free time even to THINK about cheating! It never really came across my mind as an option, where I always had a collection of favorite porn videos on my cell phone to do "self-care". Moreover, I would have never divorced just because I needed sex outside marriage or didn't have an O with my exH.

He was not a sex giant by any means: after turning 50, he became selfish in bed. Never gave an an O and preferred unusual locations for sex: on the bathroom sink, shower, dining table, pool etc. Usually, after he had a morning jog in the park on Saturdays. I in turn could not get an O in those theatrical settings: I do need for sex to be in a specific always the same position with me being on top of him, or pillows placed under my back. He just lost interest in this "conservative" sex.

But as we did have sex occasionally, I was too shy to ask him to do what I needed and he seemed not to care.

He wanted improv and you needed a script. Understandable that it wouldn’t work out, though odd that it took so long to fail.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Gaslight the whole family. Base family history on lies and secrets, what could go wrong?

You can keep calling it this but that doesn’t make it true. Of course sometimes it’s true but again the problem is generally terrible parenting not the decision to give your children age appropriate information

It’s exactly what it is. Spending your time, money, and mental space on another person that is not your spouse or child is not good parenting, nor is it putting your children first. That’s why people keep affairs secret. Affairs are wrong, so cheaters scurry around in the shadows and hide their actions and activities. They know it’s wrong so they hide it. Then, when they are found out, they want to further hide what they’ve done, so they pretend it’s something nobody should talk about. Meanwhile, the kids are not first and now the lives of the kids are torn apart and it’s considered improper to tell kids the truth about their family and their lives.

Cheaters on this thread clearly show they don’t understand their children deserve truth and honesty, and that’s why the cycle of abuse continues. Cheating is abuse, it’s lies, it’s selfishness.

Basing a family history on lies, outright lies or lies of omission, to cover up what a parent has done to destroy a family, is wrong.

Here what our truth would be. My honesty to my kids:

Kid one was born with special needs. He zapped all of our energy, especially in his first ten years. We had a second easier kid but between the two we mistakenly left no time for us. We both share blame in that.

We tried to rekindle but my wife eventually made clear she just couldn't get into a mental space with me to enjoy intimacy. We eventually tried scheduling it once a month to make sure it happened but it was still awkward. I eventually stopped initiating and she was fine with it. We went 3 years in a sexless marriage.

I found a woman who was actually interested in me for me and what started as mutual affection grew physical. I slept with her before ending my marriage which was wrong but was the catalyst I needed to realize wife and I shouldn't force this anymore.

So is this all appropriate to tell the kids? Or just DAD IS A EVIL Cheater!!

Did you discuss with your exW that you wanted an open marriage and how she would look at it? And after that what, she still didn't want to work on sex life or do a lipo?

Did you put all your assets into a trust for your children to inherit. or the nice woman who likes your sex will get 50% and will birth you another "healthy" baby?
You are disgusting: my exH also cheated as I was all tied up with our autistic son at home, taking care of multiple family businesses. Maybe you did try to go therapy with your exW, but my exH didn't. He just live a parallel second life.

I transferred 100k each to each kids college account before I announced we are separating and my ex was mad about it. She wanted the money to go to her.

I have a girlfriend, nothing serious, and I imagine most of my money will go to my kids. Sorry your exDH didnt put his kids first.

Why couldn’t you just continue sleeping with GF without imploding your kids life ? Seriously, you broke their lives over sex! And nobody would divorce if it wasn’t serious dont lie.

$100k is not sufficient for a good college it’s nothing .

Your GF is in for it for your money, silly you !

The pattern I see on here is women don't owe their DH sex and if he isn't content being sexless, he is the monster for leaving her.

If either husband or wife doesn’t feel their sexual needs are being met in marriage, they should have a conversation with their spouse and try marriage counseling. They should tell their spouse they need more sex and if that doesn’t happen, they will file for divorce. They should not find a new sexual partner while still married, and secretly have sex with that new partner while staying married. That’s called cake eating. You want your marriage and sex on the side.

Nobody has to stay married. Divorce happens. But get divorced before you find a new sexual partner. Also, your spouse might say, go ahead, have affairs, I am ok with that. That’s up to him or her. But consent by both partners is necessary.

They don't have this conversation for a single reason: sex actually happens! Sexless marriage is only a "legend" to justify them having multiple women. The wife would be "what the f..K?" if he starts talking. And it's also easier to prep for divorce: move money (like the PP dude did), re-register assets, take loans etc. Then she gets hit with a divorce totally unprepared and he walks away with minor financial damage. From her AND from his own kids.

I am the guy you are vilifying. We actually had a sexless marriage and I tried to rectify it. I feel like I stuck it out for years till I finally gave in. I am happy you can be sexless forever, I couldn't.

You said you’d tell your own special needs child their birth and life caused your wife to lose energy and interest in sex and that you found a willing sex partner to satisfy your needs. You aren’t right. I hope your wife’s attorney rectifies the financial transactions you completed without your wife’s consent. Those are marital cash assets.

You aren’t putting your kids first by whining and making excuses that your special need child broke your wife down so she couldn’t be your sex bunny anymore.

The question is - would this man have the same sex drive, if he was engaged equally with his wife in therapy? For example, filling out Kumon books, doing eye therapy "homework" with his child, taking to massages and swimming? I know what it takes to raise an autistic child, and many days sex is the last thing that comes up in the primary caregiver's mind.
PP - did you do the childcare equally with your wife, or just "delegated" to your wife?

Of course he didn’t. If he had contributed equally, he wouldn’t have had any time for an affair. The real irony is that if he had put those hours into his family, sex would have been fine.

Promise he’ll come on here and say he contributed by doing an hour or two a week, which in his mind is “half”

She said no to an open marriage.

You still didn’t answer the question. How much of your child’s care did you take on?

You have painted me as a perfect villain in your head

I worked full time, she was SAH until recent. She gets 9k a month in child support plus over $1 Million in equalization payments. She's doing fine. I am glad she is, she's the mom of my kids.

I get that some people are willing to sacrifice sex forever. I did for a decade. Eventually, the resentment was killing my love for her. We co parent very well together.

I don't care about some girlfriend taking care of me in 40 years. I am 46. Who stays in a dead bedroom for 40 more years just so they have a nurses aid in death?

And of course I didn't tell my kids about the reason for our divorce or how SN kid was probably the catalyst for a dead marriage. And neither has my wife told my kids about my infidelity but if she wanted to make this a battle of who started it, there is a much longer story.

But then again, neither one of us want to make our children our therapists.

I sincerely mean this, I am sorry you and the other posters were cheated on and it has wounded you so deeply.

$1mm settlement paid in installments is not much by dmv standards (I got several times more but we had a very high net worth).Your exW is probably in mid 40s now, and she will struggle finding a good job in her age. So it's like being provided for about 7 years with a decent rental housing. Comparing to financial security she had in the family it must be a serious financial hit for her. I don't believe she was not negotiable to improve sex life.

Sorry, but after what I lived through I just don't "buy" dead bedroom stories from a man, unless it's the wife herself

Sure, Jan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh look shocker the thread devolves into multiple pages of adults arguing about cheaters. This is why none of us kids want to hear about it, figure out your crap and don’t ruin the events you both have to come to for the rest of our lives

- the kids, who will eventually hate both of you if you fight like jerk children for our whole childhood

Do kids like you ever stop whining or playing the victim? If it’s so easy why are you on here telling everyone you feel you deserved better? I mean you should be over it right?

So it’s okay for the “adults” to play the victim card, but not the kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh look shocker the thread devolves into multiple pages of adults arguing about cheaters. This is why none of us kids want to hear about it, figure out your crap and don’t ruin the events you both have to come to for the rest of our lives

- the kids, who will eventually hate both of you if you fight like jerk children for our whole childhood

Do kids like you ever stop whining or playing the victim? If it’s so easy why are you on here telling everyone you feel you deserved better? I mean you should be over it right?

This post is literally about when to tell the kids. You get input from kids you don’t like and you dismiss it but you gleefully engage with “cheaters” for pages and pages because you’re entirely unable to move on and happy to obsess about it for the rest of your life. Sorry it sucks to know that is screwing up your kids as bad as the cheating did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband had an affair (which did not lead to divorce) and we never told the kids. I would be really cautious to share this with children . . . it feels invasive and vindictive. If Daddy runs off with OW and starts living with her right away, I think that will be obvious to the kids. But if he doesn't leave *for* a particular woman and simply because he made the marriage a big old mess, then I would be focusing on building a healthy coparenting relationship.

IMO marriages don't break down because of affairs; they break down because of what caused the affair. And no, the answer is not "dead bedroom." The answer is whatever personality flaws led one spouse to make the unhealthy choice to cheat rather than the healthy choice to communicate, cope, do self-care, ask for a separation or open marriage, etc. You got divorced because your ex was conflict-avoidant and low on empathy and self-awareness, for example. And those issues will absolutely impact his relationship with the kids going forward, but as an ex it becomes less an issue of you managing that and more an issue of you supporting your kids, modeling healthy adulthood, and setting boundaries where appropriate (no introducing new partners until both exes agree or it's been 6 months, etc.).

Regarding this dead bedroom argument, I do agree that it's unfair to change a marriage into a sexless one unilaterally. Sometimes it can't be helped due to physical limitations, but you can still check in with your partner and go over your options. TBH I think in many ways the classic dead bedroom where one spouse just assumes it's fine and resents that their spouse "badgers" them for sex is very similar to the process through which cheaters justify affairs ("I know it's wrong but s/he's so awful that I don't care"). You always have the choice to demonstrate more empathy, to try harder to communicate, to find ways to connect that satisfy both of you. And if, from that respectful and compassionate place, you decide that your differences are irreconcilable, then you will begin separate lives from a much healthier place.

This is all very insightful. I am the guy people are vilifying above, and you are dead on correct that both my wife's shutting down and my cheating came from conflict avoidant and ultimately selfish decisions. It's good to recognize it so I don't make the same mistake in the future.

I don't agree with the statement that a classic dead bedroom spouse assumes it's just fine. Marriage is based on a premise that you are exclusive. I did not ASSUME that it was fine to have sex less frequently, I THOUGHT my exH was getting older and thus had lower sex drive. I only had 2 other sexual partners prior to him in my 20s, and how the heck I would know what sexual drive of a 55 y.o. man is? I thought he was satisfied having sex 2-4 times/month, and not every day as when he was 35 and I was 24.

But I do agree that affairs happen when one spouse is selfish and ego driven. My exH is an extremely wealthy person (over $25mm net worth). Just like the male PP above, he always "delegated" childcare on me, and was telling he was getting tired from work travel. I did work full time at a lower paying job basically putting my career on back burner. But the full time job+chid care did not give me ANY free time even to THINK about cheating! It never really came across my mind as an option, where I always had a collection of favorite porn videos on my cell phone to do "self-care". Moreover, I would have never divorced just because I needed sex outside marriage or didn't have an O with my exH.

He was not a sex giant by any means: after turning 50, he became selfish in bed. Never gave an an O and preferred unusual locations for sex: on the bathroom sink, shower, dining table, pool etc. Usually, after he had a morning jog in the park on Saturdays. I in turn could not get an O in those theatrical settings: I do need for sex to be in a specific always the same position with me being on top of him, or pillows placed under my back. He just lost interest in this "conservative" sex.

But as we did have sex occasionally, I was too shy to ask him to do what I needed and he seemed not to care.

He wanted improv and you needed a script. Understandable that it wouldn’t work out, though odd that it took so long to fail.

It would have worked out if anyone ever bothered to discuss what they needed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gaslight the whole family. Base family history on lies and secrets, what could go wrong?

You can keep calling it this but that doesn’t make it true. Of course sometimes it’s true but again the problem is generally terrible parenting not the decision to give your children age appropriate information

It’s exactly what it is. Spending your time, money, and mental space on another person that is not your spouse or child is not good parenting, nor is it putting your children first. That’s why people keep affairs secret. Affairs are wrong, so cheaters scurry around in the shadows and hide their actions and activities. They know it’s wrong so they hide it. Then, when they are found out, they want to further hide what they’ve done, so they pretend it’s something nobody should talk about. Meanwhile, the kids are not first and now the lives of the kids are torn apart and it’s considered improper to tell kids the truth about their family and their lives.

Cheaters on this thread clearly show they don’t understand their children deserve truth and honesty, and that’s why the cycle of abuse continues. Cheating is abuse, it’s lies, it’s selfishness.

Basing a family history on lies, outright lies or lies of omission, to cover up what a parent has done to destroy a family, is wrong.

Here what our truth would be. My honesty to my kids:

Kid one was born with special needs. He zapped all of our energy, especially in his first ten years. We had a second easier kid but between the two we mistakenly left no time for us. We both share blame in that.

We tried to rekindle but my wife eventually made clear she just couldn't get into a mental space with me to enjoy intimacy. We eventually tried scheduling it once a month to make sure it happened but it was still awkward. I eventually stopped initiating and she was fine with it. We went 3 years in a sexless marriage.

I found a woman who was actually interested in me for me and what started as mutual affection grew physical. I slept with her before ending my marriage which was wrong but was the catalyst I needed to realize wife and I shouldn't force this anymore.

So is this all appropriate to tell the kids? Or just DAD IS A EVIL Cheater!!

Did you discuss with your exW that you wanted an open marriage and how she would look at it? And after that what, she still didn't want to work on sex life or do a lipo?

Did you put all your assets into a trust for your children to inherit. or the nice woman who likes your sex will get 50% and will birth you another "healthy" baby?
You are disgusting: my exH also cheated as I was all tied up with our autistic son at home, taking care of multiple family businesses. Maybe you did try to go therapy with your exW, but my exH didn't. He just live a parallel second life.

I transferred 100k each to each kids college account before I announced we are separating and my ex was mad about it. She wanted the money to go to her.

I have a girlfriend, nothing serious, and I imagine most of my money will go to my kids. Sorry your exDH didnt put his kids first.

Why couldn’t you just continue sleeping with GF without imploding your kids life ? Seriously, you broke their lives over sex! And nobody would divorce if it wasn’t serious dont lie.

$100k is not sufficient for a good college it’s nothing .

Your GF is in for it for your money, silly you !

The pattern I see on here is women don't owe their DH sex and if he isn't content being sexless, he is the monster for leaving her.

If either husband or wife doesn’t feel their sexual needs are being met in marriage, they should have a conversation with their spouse and try marriage counseling. They should tell their spouse they need more sex and if that doesn’t happen, they will file for divorce. They should not find a new sexual partner while still married, and secretly have sex with that new partner while staying married. That’s called cake eating. You want your marriage and sex on the side.

Nobody has to stay married. Divorce happens. But get divorced before you find a new sexual partner. Also, your spouse might say, go ahead, have affairs, I am ok with that. That’s up to him or her. But consent by both partners is necessary.

They don't have this conversation for a single reason: sex actually happens! Sexless marriage is only a "legend" to justify them having multiple women. The wife would be "what the f..K?" if he starts talking. And it's also easier to prep for divorce: move money (like the PP dude did), re-register assets, take loans etc. Then she gets hit with a divorce totally unprepared and he walks away with minor financial damage. From her AND from his own kids.

I am the guy you are vilifying. We actually had a sexless marriage and I tried to rectify it. I feel like I stuck it out for years till I finally gave in. I am happy you can be sexless forever, I couldn't.

You said you’d tell your own special needs child their birth and life caused your wife to lose energy and interest in sex and that you found a willing sex partner to satisfy your needs. You aren’t right. I hope your wife’s attorney rectifies the financial transactions you completed without your wife’s consent. Those are marital cash assets.

You aren’t putting your kids first by whining and making excuses that your special need child broke your wife down so she couldn’t be your sex bunny anymore.

The question is - would this man have the same sex drive, if he was engaged equally with his wife in therapy? For example, filling out Kumon books, doing eye therapy "homework" with his child, taking to massages and swimming? I know what it takes to raise an autistic child, and many days sex is the last thing that comes up in the primary caregiver's mind.
PP - did you do the childcare equally with your wife, or just "delegated" to your wife?

Of course he didn’t. If he had contributed equally, he wouldn’t have had any time for an affair. The real irony is that if he had put those hours into his family, sex would have been fine.

Promise he’ll come on here and say he contributed by doing an hour or two a week, which in his mind is “half”

She said no to an open marriage.

You still didn’t answer the question. How much of your child’s care did you take on?

You have painted me as a perfect villain in your head

I worked full time, she was SAH until recent. She gets 9k a month in child support plus over $1 Million in equalization payments. She's doing fine. I am glad she is, she's the mom of my kids.

I get that some people are willing to sacrifice sex forever. I did for a decade. Eventually, the resentment was killing my love for her. We co parent very well together.

I don't care about some girlfriend taking care of me in 40 years. I am 46. Who stays in a dead bedroom for 40 more years just so they have a nurses aid in death?

And of course I didn't tell my kids about the reason for our divorce or how SN kid was probably the catalyst for a dead marriage. And neither has my wife told my kids about my infidelity but if she wanted to make this a battle of who started it, there is a much longer story.

But then again, neither one of us want to make our children our therapists.

I sincerely mean this, I am sorry you and the other posters were cheated on and it has wounded you so deeply.

$1mm settlement paid in installments is not much by dmv standards (I got several times more but we had a very high net worth).Your exW is probably in mid 40s now, and she will struggle finding a good job in her age. So it's like being provided for about 7 years with a decent rental housing. Comparing to financial security she had in the family it must be a serious financial hit for her. I don't believe she was not negotiable to improve sex life.

Sorry, but after what I lived through I just don't "buy" dead bedroom stories from a man, unless it's the wife herself

Sure, Jan.

Believe or not but $1mm that PP male poster threw his wife (in installments) is just enough to send her for retirement in Costa Rica.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband had an affair (which did not lead to divorce) and we never told the kids. I would be really cautious to share this with children . . . it feels invasive and vindictive. If Daddy runs off with OW and starts living with her right away, I think that will be obvious to the kids. But if he doesn't leave *for* a particular woman and simply because he made the marriage a big old mess, then I would be focusing on building a healthy coparenting relationship.

IMO marriages don't break down because of affairs; they break down because of what caused the affair. And no, the answer is not "dead bedroom." The answer is whatever personality flaws led one spouse to make the unhealthy choice to cheat rather than the healthy choice to communicate, cope, do self-care, ask for a separation or open marriage, etc. You got divorced because your ex was conflict-avoidant and low on empathy and self-awareness, for example. And those issues will absolutely impact his relationship with the kids going forward, but as an ex it becomes less an issue of you managing that and more an issue of you supporting your kids, modeling healthy adulthood, and setting boundaries where appropriate (no introducing new partners until both exes agree or it's been 6 months, etc.).

Regarding this dead bedroom argument, I do agree that it's unfair to change a marriage into a sexless one unilaterally. Sometimes it can't be helped due to physical limitations, but you can still check in with your partner and go over your options. TBH I think in many ways the classic dead bedroom where one spouse just assumes it's fine and resents that their spouse "badgers" them for sex is very similar to the process through which cheaters justify affairs ("I know it's wrong but s/he's so awful that I don't care"). You always have the choice to demonstrate more empathy, to try harder to communicate, to find ways to connect that satisfy both of you. And if, from that respectful and compassionate place, you decide that your differences are irreconcilable, then you will begin separate lives from a much healthier place.

This is all very insightful. I am the guy people are vilifying above, and you are dead on correct that both my wife's shutting down and my cheating came from conflict avoidant and ultimately selfish decisions. It's good to recognize it so I don't make the same mistake in the future.

I don't agree with the statement that a classic dead bedroom spouse assumes it's just fine. Marriage is based on a premise that you are exclusive. I did not ASSUME that it was fine to have sex less frequently, I THOUGHT my exH was getting older and thus had lower sex drive. I only had 2 other sexual partners prior to him in my 20s, and how the heck I would know what sexual drive of a 55 y.o. man is? I thought he was satisfied having sex 2-4 times/month, and not every day as when he was 35 and I was 24.

But I do agree that affairs happen when one spouse is selfish and ego driven. My exH is an extremely wealthy person (over $25mm net worth). Just like the male PP above, he always "delegated" childcare on me, and was telling he was getting tired from work travel. I did work full time at a lower paying job basically putting my career on back burner. But the full time job+chid care did not give me ANY free time even to THINK about cheating! It never really came across my mind as an option, where I always had a collection of favorite porn videos on my cell phone to do "self-care". Moreover, I would have never divorced just because I needed sex outside marriage or didn't have an O with my exH.

He was not a sex giant by any means: after turning 50, he became selfish in bed. Never gave an an O and preferred unusual locations for sex: on the bathroom sink, shower, dining table, pool etc. Usually, after he had a morning jog in the park on Saturdays. I in turn could not get an O in those theatrical settings: I do need for sex to be in a specific always the same position with me being on top of him, or pillows placed under my back. He just lost interest in this "conservative" sex.

But as we did have sex occasionally, I was too shy to ask him to do what I needed and he seemed not to care.

He wanted improv and you needed a script. Understandable that it wouldn’t work out, though odd that it took so long to fail.

Yep, he did tell me he wanted a "variety". Odd he even got married twice ! (he already had one failed marriage before our long marriage)

[Anonymous]

Daddy found someone else to call him daddy?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband had an affair (which did not lead to divorce) and we never told the kids. I would be really cautious to share this with children . . . it feels invasive and vindictive. If Daddy runs off with OW and starts living with her right away, I think that will be obvious to the kids. But if he doesn't leave *for* a particular woman and simply because he made the marriage a big old mess, then I would be focusing on building a healthy coparenting relationship.

IMO marriages don't break down because of affairs; they break down because of what caused the affair. And no, the answer is not "dead bedroom." The answer is whatever personality flaws led one spouse to make the unhealthy choice to cheat rather than the healthy choice to communicate, cope, do self-care, ask for a separation or open marriage, etc. You got divorced because your ex was conflict-avoidant and low on empathy and self-awareness, for example. And those issues will absolutely impact his relationship with the kids going forward, but as an ex it becomes less an issue of you managing that and more an issue of you supporting your kids, modeling healthy adulthood, and setting boundaries where appropriate (no introducing new partners until both exes agree or it's been 6 months, etc.).

Regarding this dead bedroom argument, I do agree that it's unfair to change a marriage into a sexless one unilaterally. Sometimes it can't be helped due to physical limitations, but you can still check in with your partner and go over your options. TBH I think in many ways the classic dead bedroom where one spouse just assumes it's fine and resents that their spouse "badgers" them for sex is very similar to the process through which cheaters justify affairs ("I know it's wrong but s/he's so awful that I don't care"). You always have the choice to demonstrate more empathy, to try harder to communicate, to find ways to connect that satisfy both of you. And if, from that respectful and compassionate place, you decide that your differences are irreconcilable, then you will begin separate lives from a much healthier place.

This is all very insightful. I am the guy people are vilifying above, and you are dead on correct that both my wife's shutting down and my cheating came from conflict avoidant and ultimately selfish decisions. It's good to recognize it so I don't make the same mistake in the future.

I disagree. I stopped having sex with my xH and did explained to him multiple times what I needed to re-kindle things. He refused and instead would badger me until I gave in, which felt like assault and made me withdraw even more.

Every woman I know who lost interest in sex with their H felt the same. They explained what they needed and their H dismissed them, instead forcing them, accusing them of intentionally withholding, etc. Often for years.

They are intentionally withholding, as they have every right to do.

For me, I wasn’t intentionally withholding. That implies I did it as punishment. It was that I didn’t want to have sex with him.

You explained to him your quid-pro-quo and he was unable or unwilling to meet it, so you withheld, as is your right.

That’s such an ugly way to view sex - as a resource that women provide and men consume. Rather than an act of love that is *mutually* nourishing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My husband had an affair (which did not lead to divorce) and we never told the kids. I would be really cautious to share this with children . . . it feels invasive and vindictive. If Daddy runs off with OW and starts living with her right away, I think that will be obvious to the kids. But if he doesn't leave *for* a particular woman and simply because he made the marriage a big old mess, then I would be focusing on building a healthy coparenting relationship.

IMO marriages don't break down because of affairs; they break down because of what caused the affair. And no, the answer is not "dead bedroom." The answer is whatever personality flaws led one spouse to make the unhealthy choice to cheat rather than the healthy choice to communicate, cope, do self-care, ask for a separation or open marriage, etc. You got divorced because your ex was conflict-avoidant and low on empathy and self-awareness, for example. And those issues will absolutely impact his relationship with the kids going forward, but as an ex it becomes less an issue of you managing that and more an issue of you supporting your kids, modeling healthy adulthood, and setting boundaries where appropriate (no introducing new partners until both exes agree or it's been 6 months, etc.).

Regarding this dead bedroom argument, I do agree that it's unfair to change a marriage into a sexless one unilaterally. Sometimes it can't be helped due to physical limitations, but you can still check in with your partner and go over your options. TBH I think in many ways the classic dead bedroom where one spouse just assumes it's fine and resents that their spouse "badgers" them for sex is very similar to the process through which cheaters justify affairs ("I know it's wrong but s/he's so awful that I don't care"). You always have the choice to demonstrate more empathy, to try harder to communicate, to find ways to connect that satisfy both of you. And if, from that respectful and compassionate place, you decide that your differences are irreconcilable, then you will begin separate lives from a much healthier place.

This is all very insightful. I am the guy people are vilifying above, and you are dead on correct that both my wife's shutting down and my cheating came from conflict avoidant and ultimately selfish decisions. It's good to recognize it so I don't make the same mistake in the future.

I disagree. I stopped having sex with my xH and did explained to him multiple times what I needed to re-kindle things. He refused and instead would badger me until I gave in, which felt like assault and made me withdraw even more.

Every woman I know who lost interest in sex with their H felt the same. They explained what they needed and their H dismissed them, instead forcing them, accusing them of intentionally withholding, etc. Often for years.

They are intentionally withholding, as they have every right to do.

For me, I wasn’t intentionally withholding. That implies I did it as punishment. It was that I didn’t want to have sex with him.

You explained to him your quid-pro-quo and he was unable or unwilling to meet it, so you withheld, as is your right.

That’s such an ugly way to view sex - as a resource that women provide and men consume. Rather than an act of love that is *mutually* nourishing.

Agree. Any relationship worth having, especially marriage, shouldn't be transactional. Obviously in its structure any partnership hinges on what each partner is supposed to bring to the table, but marriages go beyond that . . . that's what the "in sickness and in health, for richer or poorer" part is all about. During your partner's low moments is when they need more compassion and support from you.

If your partner is getting less sex than they'd prefer because your libido has gone down, that should make you feel sympathetic. Maybe your spouse thinks they'd like a lot more sex than they could really handle. But even if they have some unrealistic number in their head, what you should hear is that they want more connection and passion with you. If you're hearing it as a criticism, that's a you issue . . . lean into those things you need to work on. And embrace the person you married wanting more of you!

As for cheating, rewriting the marital history is a proven step in the process, and for every cheater who is in an actually dead bedroom I'm going to guess there are several who convinced themselves "my wife who is dealing with [anxiety, menopause, tiny humans, etc.] isn't jumping me every second so that's a DB even though we still have regular sex." It's hard to consider someone who has made that leap into cheating out of all the available options a reliable narrator unless it's later after some serious therapy and introspection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh look shocker the thread devolves into multiple pages of adults arguing about cheaters. This is why none of us kids want to hear about it, figure out your crap and don’t ruin the events you both have to come to for the rest of our lives

- the kids, who will eventually hate both of you if you fight like jerk children for our whole childhood

Do kids like you ever stop whining or playing the victim? If it’s so easy why are you on here telling everyone you feel you deserved better? I mean you should be over it right?

This post is literally about when to tell the kids. You get input from kids you don’t like and you dismiss it but you gleefully engage with “cheaters” for pages and pages because you’re entirely unable to move on and happy to obsess about it for the rest of your life. Sorry it sucks to know that is screwing up your kids as bad as the cheating did.

That’s a false analogy. Most of the people here commenting are people getting a divorce now or just recently or still married dealing with a cheater. You are a grown adult. How many years has it been since this has affected you? Also people do want to move on from it. Not just hide it.

[Anonymous]

People want to be truthful to their life. They left because of abuse or adultery or no sex or whatever. Not some made up reason they give to their almost adult or adult children. By adolescence kids can handle some basics about relationships and should be in ones of their own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh look shocker the thread devolves into multiple pages of adults arguing about cheaters. This is why none of us kids want to hear about it, figure out your crap and don’t ruin the events you both have to come to for the rest of our lives

- the kids, who will eventually hate both of you if you fight like jerk children for our whole childhood

Do kids like you ever stop whining or playing the victim? If it’s so easy why are you on here telling everyone you feel you deserved better? I mean you should be over it right?

This post is literally about when to tell the kids. You get input from kids you don’t like and you dismiss it but you gleefully engage with “cheaters” for pages and pages because you’re entirely unable to move on and happy to obsess about it for the rest of your life. Sorry it sucks to know that is screwing up your kids as bad as the cheating did.

That’s a false analogy. Most of the people here commenting are people getting a divorce now or just recently or still married dealing with a cheater. You are a grown adult. How many years has it been since this has affected you? Also people do want to move on from it. Not just hide it.

Yeah it's hard to take advice from someone who thinks they have diagnosed others with an inability to move and that fills them with . . . contempt? If I think someone is struggling to move on I feel compassion for them and figure that if they had the resources to do better, they would be. But since we can't feel concern for the whole wide world without destroying ourselves, at the very least indifference is an OK response. Contempt just means you've got your own issues and you've turned to meanness as an unhealthy coping mechanism.

[Anonymous]

My mom made it her mission to let us know the marriage imploded because my dad cheated. It was sort of obvious he cheated because he ended up with his AP.

But she still dwells on it. And I love mom but she has some major issues including likely a narcissistic personality (and I know that is a rare diagnosis but she really fits the bill).

It's one thing to let the kids know if you must, but to dwell on it or to use it to triangulate the kids will backfire