Ex wants to move out of state-- what are the questions to ask and pitfalls to avoid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I would approach this weekend meeting as only an opportunity to listen to what he has to say. Let him make his proposal. Ask him questions about details such as flights, costs, etc. Simply listen and ask questions. Do NOT negotiate with him. Keep your cards close at hand and stay calm. No judgment and no anger. Do not offer anything except, “You’ve given me a lot to think about. Of course I’ll need to talk this over with my attorney.”

Again, do NOT negotiate.

I agree with this advice. This is an information gathering session for you, to see what he has in mind, so you can formulate your own negotiation plan with your attorney.

I think the other thing to consider here is that your kid is in high school, and his/her wishes need to be taken into account for visitation. I doubt your highschooler is going to want to spend the entire summer in a place where they don't know anyone. If your kid is excited about staying with dad all summer, then, I would honor that too. Ultimately, I would approach this as a three-way negotiation.

1. Find out what kid envisions
2. Listen, without judgement, to your ex's plan
3. Formulate your own position

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a selfish father.

Many moms move and take the kid with them? Why is that ok? Dad is not doing 50/50 custody so he can easily get the same time in with summers and holidays. Why should he stay if he doesn't have 50/50 custody?

Sometimes the moms with the kids want to be near their family. Or a less costly city. If her ex is taking a job because of a good opportunity then she needs to let it go. She can hire help if she needs more nights out etc. This isn't really a problem, most would love to see their exes move out of town. They can see the dad on breaks, or dad can come back and visit. Soon they'll be in high school, it will be up to the young adult to decide.
If their on decent terms OP should be supportive, she'll get more that way in the long run imo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He's moving, how is this screwing you over. Its fine for him to move. Let him have holidays and summers and since he is moving, he pays for transportation and making arrangements.

No. he gets HALF of summer and HALF of the week breaks (split them 2 weeks for you 2 weeks for him). You do give up all their leisure time to him and his side of the family and keep all of the school time for you. get a new custody document. you are 80-100% custody and split the vacation weeks each calendar year in half.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's moving, how is this screwing you over. Its fine for him to move. Let him have holidays and summers and since he is moving, he pays for transportation and making arrangements.

No. he gets HALF of summer and HALF of the week breaks (split them 2 weeks for you 2 weeks for him). You do give up all their leisure time to him and his side of the family and keep all of the school time for you. get a new custody document. you are 80-100% custody and split the vacation weeks each calendar year in half.

That's not reasonable at all. If you are doing that, you might as well just terminate the relationship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just went through this. Do EVERYTHING through lawyers/court. He, legally, is the one that should file to amend the custody and child support agreements. He absolutely should pay more and it will drastically change the numbers. A high school kid is not going to want to leave his hometown every summer and holiday.

We split winter break. The one that chose to move across the country gets the kids for 3 weeks in the summer, every other spring break, and every other fall break. On non-fall break years he gets them for Thanksgiving.If he wants to fly back to visit every other weekend or whatever then let him. On a schedule. He might take advantage of it.

Whatever you do, do not do this on your own. Use the law to protect yourself.

That's sad for the kids that they are so limited in time with their dad, especially to 3 weeks in the supper. Why not just stop visitation all tother as two breaks and 3 weeks is what you'd give a relative, not parent?

I have never sent my kids to any relative for 3 weeks and never would unless my kid was begging to. 3 weeks in the summer is much more than a usual visit with grandparents or aunts/uncles/cousins. Some kids spend a full summer with grandparents in another state or abroad. There is no standard “this is for relatives/this is for a parent” time period. There are just different arrangements that work for different families. This kid is already in HS. He is not going to want to spend his whole summer away from his school friends, and dad would be wrong to insist on it.

This isn't a relative. This is the child's father. Two different situations. We have friends send us their high school kids for several weeks in the summer. You are missing the point that this is a parent and kids need both of their parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just went through this. Do EVERYTHING through lawyers/court. He, legally, is the one that should file to amend the custody and child support agreements. He absolutely should pay more and it will drastically change the numbers. A high school kid is not going to want to leave his hometown every summer and holiday.

We split winter break. The one that chose to move across the country gets the kids for 3 weeks in the summer, every other spring break, and every other fall break. On non-fall break years he gets them for Thanksgiving.If he wants to fly back to visit every other weekend or whatever then let him. On a schedule. He might take advantage of it.

Whatever you do, do not do this on your own. Use the law to protect yourself.

That's sad for the kids that they are so limited in time with their dad, especially to 3 weeks in the supper. Why not just stop visitation all tother as two breaks and 3 weeks is what you'd give a relative, not parent?

I have never sent my kids to any relative for 3 weeks and never would unless my kid was begging to. 3 weeks in the summer is much more than a usual visit with grandparents or aunts/uncles/cousins. Some kids spend a full summer with grandparents in another state or abroad. There is no standard “this is for relatives/this is for a parent” time period. There are just different arrangements that work for different families. This kid is already in HS. He is not going to want to spend his whole summer away from his school friends, and dad would be wrong to insist on it.

This isn't a relative. This is the child's father. Two different situations. We have friends send us their high school kids for several weeks in the summer. You are missing the point that this is a parent and kids need both of their parents.

Yes, kids need both their parents. That’s why one of the parents shouldn’t voluntarily move away. My bipolar ex, in the middle of hypomania, frequently had ideas about moving to country X for a job. Thankfully, his therapist would gently remind him, if you want to have a relationship with your kids, you need to live here and see them regularly.

If a parent voluntarily moves away from the child’s established home, then the parent has to bear the comsequences of that. Depending on how far it is, how old the child is and how established the child is in tbe current locale, the moving parent might end up with less custody time.

Although most locales now have a presumption of 50/50 custody, that “presumption” is a presumption that it is in the “best interests of the child” that there is 50/50 custody. “Best interests of the child” is the standard that rules. If one parent moves a significant distance, then the “presumption” that 50/50 is in tbe “best interests” is no longer true.

There are many things a non-custodial parent can do to preserve relationships - regular Skype or Facetime video, visits by the parent back to the child’s town of residence, etc.

It is not in the best interests of a HS age child to simply have to go several hours by plane for all vacations. Those need to be split evenly between parents and the moving parent must make a greater effort to come back to visit if desirous of more time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just went through this. Do EVERYTHING through lawyers/court. He, legally, is the one that should file to amend the custody and child support agreements. He absolutely should pay more and it will drastically change the numbers. A high school kid is not going to want to leave his hometown every summer and holiday.

We split winter break. The one that chose to move across the country gets the kids for 3 weeks in the summer, every other spring break, and every other fall break. On non-fall break years he gets them for Thanksgiving.If he wants to fly back to visit every other weekend or whatever then let him. On a schedule. He might take advantage of it.

Whatever you do, do not do this on your own. Use the law to protect yourself.

That's sad for the kids that they are so limited in time with their dad, especially to 3 weeks in the supper. Why not just stop visitation all tother as two breaks and 3 weeks is what you'd give a relative, not parent?

I have never sent my kids to any relative for 3 weeks and never would unless my kid was begging to. 3 weeks in the summer is much more than a usual visit with grandparents or aunts/uncles/cousins. Some kids spend a full summer with grandparents in another state or abroad. There is no standard “this is for relatives/this is for a parent” time period. There are just different arrangements that work for different families. This kid is already in HS. He is not going to want to spend his whole summer away from his school friends, and dad would be wrong to insist on it.

This isn't a relative. This is the child's father. Two different situations. We have friends send us their high school kids for several weeks in the summer. You are missing the point that this is a parent and kids need both of their parents.

Yes, kids need both their parents. That’s why one of the parents shouldn’t voluntarily move away. My bipolar ex, in the middle of hypomania, frequently had ideas about moving to country X for a job. Thankfully, his therapist would gently remind him, if you want to have a relationship with your kids, you need to live here and see them regularly.

If a parent voluntarily moves away from the child’s established home, then the parent has to bear the comsequences of that. Depending on how far it is, how old the child is and how established the child is in tbe current locale, the moving parent might end up with less custody time.

Although most locales now have a presumption of 50/50 custody, that “presumption” is a presumption that it is in the “best interests of the child” that there is 50/50 custody. “Best interests of the child” is the standard that rules. If one parent moves a significant distance, then the “presumption” that 50/50 is in tbe “best interests” is no longer true.

There are many things a non-custodial parent can do to preserve relationships - regular Skype or Facetime video, visits by the parent back to the child’s town of residence, etc.

It is not in the best interests of a HS age child to simply have to go several hours by plane for all vacations. Those need to be split evenly between parents and the moving parent must make a greater effort to come back to visit if desirous of more time.

This is not about your mentally ill ex who may not be able to handle more parenting. You are mixing the situation with your own. Just terminate your child's relationship with their father and be honest that you don't want them to have a relationship.

There are plenty of reasons to move. Life isn't always that simple. Even when you live close, most Dad's even good ones don't get 50/50 so why stay if you cannot see your kids.

FaceTime and phones are only good if the custodial parent allows it. Often that is also restricted as well.

It absolutely is in a child's best interests to visit the other parent for an extended time during the summer. They can get a job, be parented by that parent, and really get to know that parent. A 5 minute phone call weekly and a few weeks a year isn't parenting. That's just a child support check and pretending to call the parent a parent when they are just a human ATM.

You don't want the father involved. That's fine. Just admit it and stop taking child support tell the child you are terminating the relationship, not Dad. Problem solved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I might not completely remember what it was like to be a high schooler, but I don't think I'd want to spend my summers away from my friends in a place where the only person I knew was my dad...

Exactly. This sounds like a nightmare for a teen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I might not completely remember what it was like to be a high schooler, but I don't think I'd want to spend my summers away from my friends in a place where the only person I knew was my dad...

Exactly. This sounds like a nightmare for a teen.

If mom places the importance on friends and her, then no, they will not want to. It depends on the child but it should not even be an option. If you don't want dad involved, terminate his rights and stop taking child support. Its pretty simple. We have friends kids (teens) who spend several weeks with us in the summer per their request. They's spend longer if they could. We set them up with their own activities that their parents are too lazy to do for them, which is one reason they like to come.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I might not completely remember what it was like to be a high schooler, but I don't think I'd want to spend my summers away from my friends in a place where the only person I knew was my dad...

Exactly. This sounds like a nightmare for a teen.

If mom places the importance on friends and her, then no, they will not want to. It depends on the child but it should not even be an option. If you don't want dad involved, terminate his rights and stop taking child support. Its pretty simple. We have friends kids (teens) who spend several weeks with us in the summer per their request. They's spend longer if they could. We set them up with their own activities that their parents are too lazy to do for them, which is one reason they like to come.

Stop applying your own issues to OP’s son.

[Anonymous]

Any update from OP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How is he screwing her over? If he's paying child support and not having regular visitation, where is the issue. He is not required to pay extra's and his portion should come out of child support in less agreed upon. He continues to pay child support and he pays for and arranges transportation. Just like if OP moved, she should pay and arrange for transportation. Its on the person who moves.

He’s screwing over his son and their relationship. Hope he has a damn good reason. Abandoning your kid in high school is shitty. And don’t give me that Christmas and summers crap. The bulk of parenting is done in showing up for soccer games and monitoring homework. That parent is clocking out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He's moving, how is this screwing you over. Its fine for him to move. Let him have holidays and summers and since he is moving, he pays for transportation and making arrangements.

Please go away. - new poster

Another new poster and I agree with poster you are telling to go away. It sounds to me that her ex had an excellent plan. OP does not own her ex and it is easy to see why she has an ex!

This is OP. You are so ridiculous I can't even be offended.

My ex has indeed shafted me and our kid in huge and small ways for years, which I'm not going to go into because I'm not actually here for drama. He already gets to be the "fun parent" while I take care of the actual parenting. When he moves, I'll be handling 100% of the school conferences, pickups from extracurriculars, etc., and will have no regular "kid free" nights. That's fine, but I don't want to lose most of my fun/relaxed time (summer and holidays) with ds. I'm not trying to control Ex, I'm trying to protect me and my kid by getting advice. Thanks to everyone who actually provided tips and perspective!

OP you don't have to justify yourself. I get EXACTLY what you're saying. My ex is the same way. He gets to be the fun parent when he feels like it and does none of the parenting stuff (school, doctors, homework, etc.)

I would tell him that he can have DS a couple of weeks in the summer, half or alternating holidays and pays for all travel.

If he doesn't like it, tell him to stay put. I would never move that far from my kid. Period.

I agree, but he should get half of summer break, not just a few weeks. Maybe 2/3's, but start negotiating with half of summer break.

How are 1/2's fair. That means he gets maybe 4 weeks out of 52.

How is it fair to the OP or the child that Dad chooses to move away from his kid and take on even less day to day responsibility for his child? And this is the Dad's choice in this case. It is not a "I have to move because I'll lose my job." or "I am in the military and I have to move." This is "I want to move because I like state X better. Dad is choosing to leave his kid behind.

So Mom is suppose to give up the more relaxed down time that comes on long weekends and vacation times because Dad has chosen to move away from his child? So the kid is required to give up relaxed time with friends and maybe activities he likes because his father choose to move away?

Maybe if Dad wants to spend time with his child, Dad should stay put. That way he would see his child more then 4 weeks out of 52.

Or you could blame the Mom and the kid for Dad having less time with the kid because Mom is being unreasonable in wanting to have some of that more relaxed time with her kid who she is taking care of 24/7, you know, parenting. The job both people signed up for and the Dad is moving away from.

You kind, considerate, open-minded people aren't considering that maybe "Dad" has a job (an income, etc) whose location is moving him elsewhere. He can (a) stay put and earn zero while he finds a new job, and maybe not as good of a job; or (b) move and get on with his life and still be able to be a financially supportive father.

This stuff happens all the time, nothing here is new. The minor is soon to not be a minor anymore, anyway. Blink and s/he will be 18.

They got divorced, it sucks. When two people are no longer a married couple this is always a possibility. I dont think there is any divorce document that can physically prevent someone from moving. People move, all the time.

Exactly. The child will be 18 in no time.

I sense this is a control issue. Let the poor guy move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How is he screwing her over? If he's paying child support and not having regular visitation, where is the issue. He is not required to pay extra's and his portion should come out of child support in less agreed upon. He continues to pay child support and he pays for and arranges transportation. Just like if OP moved, she should pay and arrange for transportation. Its on the person who moves.

He’s screwing over his son and their relationship. Hope he has a damn good reason. Abandoning your kid in high school is shitty. And don’t give me that Christmas and summers crap. The bulk of parenting is done in showing up for soccer games and monitoring homework. That parent is clocking out.

OP has primary custody and Dad only has limited visitation. He isn't ruining the relationship, its been ruined by not having 50/50 and parenting daily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I might not completely remember what it was like to be a high schooler, but I don't think I'd want to spend my summers away from my friends in a place where the only person I knew was my dad...

Exactly. This sounds like a nightmare for a teen.

NP. That scenario is exactly why my godson, now an adult, doesn't see much of his dad. Dad moved many states away but insisted high schooler son visit at times like summer when son, as a teen, was missing out on high school activities, band camp (mandatory to play in band during the school year), etc. And dad treated those visits with a lot of neediness--he really pushed son to be happy about "our special time together" and expected son to focus on him as much as he was focusing on son. It seemed like the dad was so needy, demanding his son's attention and proclaiming how much fun fun fun they were having. The result is, now that son is in his 20s, he only visits dad maybe once a year and has been resisting dad's frequent "suggestions" that son move to dad's area. The son has said in front of me that it would be "too much 'togetherness.'" Dad created this situation for himself by being so clingy and dad was so clingy because he chose to move far from his son and treated visits as some kind of sacred, intense bonding time--not as just being together as parent and child.