Ex wants to move out of state-- what are the questions to ask and pitfalls to avoid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I might not completely remember what it was like to be a high schooler, but I don't think I'd want to spend my summers away from my friends in a place where the only person I knew was my dad...

Exactly. This sounds like a nightmare for a teen.

NP. That scenario is exactly why my godson, now an adult, doesn't see much of his dad. Dad moved many states away but insisted high schooler son visit at times like summer when son, as a teen, was missing out on high school activities, band camp (mandatory to play in band during the school year), etc. And dad treated those visits with a lot of neediness--he really pushed son to be happy about "our special time together" and expected son to focus on him as much as he was focusing on son. It seemed like the dad was so needy, demanding his son's attention and proclaiming how much fun fun fun they were having. The result is, now that son is in his 20s, he only visits dad maybe once a year and has been resisting dad's frequent "suggestions" that son move to dad's area. The son has said in front of me that it would be "too much 'togetherness.'" Dad created this situation for himself by being so clingy and dad was so clingy because he chose to move far from his son and treated visits as some kind of sacred, intense bonding time--not as just being together as parent and child.

Most "camps" and schools make exceptions for kids where they are in a visitation arrangement with another parent. They will not for a vacation but visitation is different. Dad didn't create the issue. You refusing to allow Dad summers is what caused the distance. You made up so many excuses as to why child cannot see Dad, child sided with you as he wanted to please you and now you got what you wanted, them having no relationship.

Lol. Have you ever played high school football? No,they will not "make an exception" for a player not coming to any of the summer practices due to visitation.

NP, they might let the kid play, but they’ll never make varsity. Which would suck if that was a kids goal.

If a child is good enough, and there is court ordered visitation they will get into varsity. This child is not in sports. My child is on a year round team. Family always comes first.

Oh...ok. Now I see where you are coming from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I might not completely remember what it was like to be a high schooler, but I don't think I'd want to spend my summers away from my friends in a place where the only person I knew was my dad...

Exactly. This sounds like a nightmare for a teen.

NP. That scenario is exactly why my godson, now an adult, doesn't see much of his dad. Dad moved many states away but insisted high schooler son visit at times like summer when son, as a teen, was missing out on high school activities, band camp (mandatory to play in band during the school year), etc. And dad treated those visits with a lot of neediness--he really pushed son to be happy about "our special time together" and expected son to focus on him as much as he was focusing on son. It seemed like the dad was so needy, demanding his son's attention and proclaiming how much fun fun fun they were having. The result is, now that son is in his 20s, he only visits dad maybe once a year and has been resisting dad's frequent "suggestions" that son move to dad's area. The son has said in front of me that it would be "too much 'togetherness.'" Dad created this situation for himself by being so clingy and dad was so clingy because he chose to move far from his son and treated visits as some kind of sacred, intense bonding time--not as just being together as parent and child.

Most "camps" and schools make exceptions for kids where they are in a visitation arrangement with another parent. They will not for a vacation but visitation is different. Dad didn't create the issue. You refusing to allow Dad summers is what caused the distance. You made up so many excuses as to why child cannot see Dad, child sided with you as he wanted to please you and now you got what you wanted, them having no relationship.

Projecting much, PP? I wrote the post above to which you're responding. The kid isn't mine--read more carefully; he's my godson, not my son.

But you leap to the assumption I'm an evil mom "refusing to allow" dad to have long-distance visitation.

If you'd actually read the post you'd also realize the mom DID send son to visit dad. Many times. Dad's needy, center-of-attention behavior is what alienated teen son. Mom did not "refuse to allow" visits nor did she "make excuses as to why child cannot see dad." You totally misread the post and are fabricating a situation based on your belief that moms are evil and keep kids from dads.

That is not what happened in my post. And by the way--those camps and schools that you say will make exceptions for kids missing things due to visitation? Maybe for younger kids or tweens, but all bets are off, once the child is a teen in high school. A serious sports program, or arts program, dance studio, music program, etc., is simply not going to "make exceptions" for a teen who cannot be present if there are mandatory summer practices, classes, rehearsals, etc. when the other teens in that program are there gaining skills over the summer. If a teen is serious about certain activities, an inflexible and insistent parent who keeps the teen away during those periods is a parent who puts himself or herself first. And reaps the results once the teen is grown and can say no thanks to visits.

[Anonymous]

So many bitter, checked out, selfish father failures trolling here.

Anyway, the boy is headed to high school. If he gets a summer job he won’t want to leave in the summer. Dad is leaving but admits he doesn’t have to...he wants to. The damage that abandonment will do will not be recovered from. But sounds like good riddance.

[Anonymous]

Chances are that dad is relocating for a woman. A friend went through lengthy mediation over an elaborate cross country visitation schedule. In the end, her ex got all the federal holidays, Thanksgiving, Winter Break, Spring Break, and all but two weeks of summer break. In exchange, she got tie breaking authority in legal custody. The ex moved and the first visit was a month later. About two hours after her son landed, he called her in tears to say “Dad is getting married today! Can I come home?”

Her ex got married that same day and then left the son and three new step-siblings at home with a babysitter while he went on his honeymoon. My friend couldn’t even reach the dad for a week to ask WTF.

As a result, they were back in court the same year. The judge gave dad just half of winter break, half of spring break, and three weeks of summer break. Dad soon dropped the school year visits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Chances are that dad is relocating for a woman. A friend went through lengthy mediation over an elaborate cross country visitation schedule. In the end, her ex got all the federal holidays, Thanksgiving, Winter Break, Spring Break, and all but two weeks of summer break. In exchange, she got tie breaking authority in legal custody. The ex moved and the first visit was a month later. About two hours after her son landed, he called her in tears to say “Dad is getting married today! Can I come home?”

Her ex got married that same day and then left the son and three new step-siblings at home with a babysitter while he went on his honeymoon. My friend couldn’t even reach the dad for a week to ask WTF.

As a result, they were back in court the same year. The judge gave dad just half of winter break, half of spring break, and three weeks of summer break. Dad soon dropped the school year visits.

That is a horrible story. I feel so bad for your friend's son. As I was reading, my jaw dropped and I'm thinking to myself "unbelievable!" But then again, sadly, it's not at all surprising.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Chances are that dad is relocating for a woman. A friend went through lengthy mediation over an elaborate cross country visitation schedule. In the end, her ex got all the federal holidays, Thanksgiving, Winter Break, Spring Break, and all but two weeks of summer break. In exchange, she got tie breaking authority in legal custody. The ex moved and the first visit was a month later. About two hours after her son landed, he called her in tears to say “Dad is getting married today! Can I come home?”

Her ex got married that same day and then left the son and three new step-siblings at home with a babysitter while he went on his honeymoon. My friend couldn’t even reach the dad for a week to ask WTF.

As a result, they were back in court the same year. The judge gave dad just half of winter break, half of spring break, and three weeks of summer break. Dad soon dropped the school year visits.

I just want to point out that your friend’s story is an outcome of mediation, where the outcome is not determined by a judge but rather by agreement. Men often have greater financial resources and are more agressive negotiators. Women are often motivated to trade something of value (child support amounts or a particular custody schedule) in order to be able to make decisions about child welfare. This is clearly the case in your friend’s situation as you describe - she traded the “vacation time” for the right to make final legal decisions (usually decisions about school, medical treatment and religious education, etc.)

However, if the woman had the resources to refuse to settle in mediation and go to court, the outcome might have allowed her more of the “vacation time”, especially if the move was voluntary, and depending on the child’s age, a court might have heard the child’s preferences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does your DS participate in things like sports, marching band, or other activities that start practice in the summer and would interfere with him spending the whole summer at your Ex's?
What about in the later high school years when he wants to get a summer job?

I would encourage frequent short visits rather than long visits. Also, I think your EX should be the one to come to your DS more often; He should be there for things like watching him play a sport or participating in the school play, etc.

Also, DS may not want to be gone for long. He's at the age where he wants and needs to hang out with his friends. This will be especially sad if DS is in a relationship. Sorry, just going through similar situation with my DS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Chances are that dad is relocating for a woman. A friend went through lengthy mediation over an elaborate cross country visitation schedule. In the end, her ex got all the federal holidays, Thanksgiving, Winter Break, Spring Break, and all but two weeks of summer break. In exchange, she got tie breaking authority in legal custody. The ex moved and the first visit was a month later. About two hours after her son landed, he called her in tears to say “Dad is getting married today! Can I come home?”

Her ex got married that same day and then left the son and three new step-siblings at home with a babysitter while he went on his honeymoon. My friend couldn’t even reach the dad for a week to ask WTF.

As a result, they were back in court the same year. The judge gave dad just half of winter break, half of spring break, and three weeks of summer break. Dad soon dropped the school year visits.

Good grief.

Something similar happened to a friend of mine. Their dad, her ex, scheduled his wedding to his new GF for one week after his kids left from summer visitation with him (in Europe). The kids didn't know he was even getting married, they found out accidentally that he was 1) marrying and 2) they weren't invited to the wedding

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Chances are that dad is relocating for a woman. A friend went through lengthy mediation over an elaborate cross country visitation schedule. In the end, her ex got all the federal holidays, Thanksgiving, Winter Break, Spring Break, and all but two weeks of summer break. In exchange, she got tie breaking authority in legal custody. The ex moved and the first visit was a month later. About two hours after her son landed, he called her in tears to say “Dad is getting married today! Can I come home?”

Her ex got married that same day and then left the son and three new step-siblings at home with a babysitter while he went on his honeymoon. My friend couldn’t even reach the dad for a week to ask WTF.

As a result, they were back in court the same year. The judge gave dad just half of winter break, half of spring break, and three weeks of summer break. Dad soon dropped the school year visits.

I just want to point out that your friend’s story is an outcome of mediation, where the outcome is not determined by a judge but rather by agreement. Men often have greater financial resources and are more agressive negotiators. Women are often motivated to trade something of value (child support amounts or a particular custody schedule) in order to be able to make decisions about child welfare. This is clearly the case in your friend’s situation as you describe - she traded the “vacation time” for the right to make final legal decisions (usually decisions about school, medical treatment and religious education, etc.)

However, if the woman had the resources to refuse to settle in mediation and go to court, the outcome might have allowed her more of the “vacation time”, especially if the move was voluntary, and depending on the child’s age, a court might have heard the child’s preferences.

I don't necessarily disagree, but is this really all about the money to litigate, or wanting to avoid confrontation, which can play a role in mediation as well? I would never want to litigate, and I sometimes have a hard time with confrontation, so I can see making this sort of trade-off. But you can always start with a tough position in mediation too. Maybe it's more about women being ambitious about what they ask for in mediation, and not starting off with their bottom line ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Chances are that dad is relocating for a woman. A friend went through lengthy mediation over an elaborate cross country visitation schedule. In the end, her ex got all the federal holidays, Thanksgiving, Winter Break, Spring Break, and all but two weeks of summer break. In exchange, she got tie breaking authority in legal custody. The ex moved and the first visit was a month later. About two hours after her son landed, he called her in tears to say “Dad is getting married today! Can I come home?”

Her ex got married that same day and then left the son and three new step-siblings at home with a babysitter while he went on his honeymoon. My friend couldn’t even reach the dad for a week to ask WTF.

As a result, they were back in court the same year. The judge gave dad just half of winter break, half of spring break, and three weeks of summer break. Dad soon dropped the school year visits.

Good grief.

Something similar happened to a friend of mine. Their dad, her ex, scheduled his wedding to his new GF for one week after his kids left from summer visitation with him (in Europe). The kids didn't know he was even getting married, they found out accidentally that he was 1) marrying and 2) they weren't invited to the wedding

Why do men do stuff like this??? I know, not all men, but still? Is it just an outcome of believing that all emotional labor is women's work -- so the new GF gets to dictate the wedding plans (no matter how hurtful to the kids) and the man just doesn't have to think about the implications to his own children or how to best blend families, because taking care of his kids' emotions is their mom's job?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Chances are that dad is relocating for a woman. A friend went through lengthy mediation over an elaborate cross country visitation schedule. In the end, her ex got all the federal holidays, Thanksgiving, Winter Break, Spring Break, and all but two weeks of summer break. In exchange, she got tie breaking authority in legal custody. The ex moved and the first visit was a month later. About two hours after her son landed, he called her in tears to say “Dad is getting married today! Can I come home?”

Her ex got married that same day and then left the son and three new step-siblings at home with a babysitter while he went on his honeymoon. My friend couldn’t even reach the dad for a week to ask WTF.

As a result, they were back in court the same year. The judge gave dad just half of winter break, half of spring break, and three weeks of summer break. Dad soon dropped the school year visits.

I just want to point out that your friend’s story is an outcome of mediation, where the outcome is not determined by a judge but rather by agreement. Men often have greater financial resources and are more agressive negotiators. Women are often motivated to trade something of value (child support amounts or a particular custody schedule) in order to be able to make decisions about child welfare. This is clearly the case in your friend’s situation as you describe - she traded the “vacation time” for the right to make final legal decisions (usually decisions about school, medical treatment and religious education, etc.)

However, if the woman had the resources to refuse to settle in mediation and go to court, the outcome might have allowed her more of the “vacation time”, especially if the move was voluntary, and depending on the child’s age, a court might have heard the child’s preferences.

Depends on the situation. My husband's ex took him to court right after we were married as she filed stating that she was entitled to household income as child support (i.e. my income). Funny she didn't declare she was living with the same man she cheated with and he was paying their rent and major bills. Instead the judge took the two older kids off child support and removed her alimony which was supposed to have been removed 2 years prior but he didn't fight it was he knew legal fees weren't worth it. He ended up with one child on child support (two older ones were over 18) and more visitation as she had been denying visitation. Plus, a huge attorney bill. Filing can backfire as well. We never expected that outcome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I might not completely remember what it was like to be a high schooler, but I don't think I'd want to spend my summers away from my friends in a place where the only person I knew was my dad...

Exactly. This sounds like a nightmare for a teen.

NP. That scenario is exactly why my godson, now an adult, doesn't see much of his dad. Dad moved many states away but insisted high schooler son visit at times like summer when son, as a teen, was missing out on high school activities, band camp (mandatory to play in band during the school year), etc. And dad treated those visits with a lot of neediness--he really pushed son to be happy about "our special time together" and expected son to focus on him as much as he was focusing on son. It seemed like the dad was so needy, demanding his son's attention and proclaiming how much fun fun fun they were having. The result is, now that son is in his 20s, he only visits dad maybe once a year and has been resisting dad's frequent "suggestions" that son move to dad's area. The son has said in front of me that it would be "too much 'togetherness.'" Dad created this situation for himself by being so clingy and dad was so clingy because he chose to move far from his son and treated visits as some kind of sacred, intense bonding time--not as just being together as parent and child.

Most "camps" and schools make exceptions for kids where they are in a visitation arrangement with another parent. They will not for a vacation but visitation is different. Dad didn't create the issue. You refusing to allow Dad summers is what caused the distance. You made up so many excuses as to why child cannot see Dad, child sided with you as he wanted to please you and now you got what you wanted, them having no relationship.

Projecting much, PP? I wrote the post above to which you're responding. The kid isn't mine--read more carefully; he's my godson, not my son.

But you leap to the assumption I'm an evil mom "refusing to allow" dad to have long-distance visitation.

If you'd actually read the post you'd also realize the mom DID send son to visit dad. Many times. Dad's needy, center-of-attention behavior is what alienated teen son. Mom did not "refuse to allow" visits nor did she "make excuses as to why child cannot see dad." You totally misread the post and are fabricating a situation based on your belief that moms are evil and keep kids from dads.

That is not what happened in my post. And by the way--those camps and schools that you say will make exceptions for kids missing things due to visitation? Maybe for younger kids or tweens, but all bets are off, once the child is a teen in high school. A serious sports program, or arts program, dance studio, music program, etc., is simply not going to "make exceptions" for a teen who cannot be present if there are mandatory summer practices, classes, rehearsals, etc. when the other teens in that program are there gaining skills over the summer. If a teen is serious about certain activities, an inflexible and insistent parent who keeps the teen away during those periods is a parent who puts himself or herself first. And reaps the results once the teen is grown and can say no thanks to visits.

There are plenty of sports and other camps all over the country. Yes, many schools will make exceptions to court ordered visitation. Its not reasonable for dad to get a few days at Christmas and a few days at spring break and then 2 weeks summer. At that point, just terminate his rights and stop taking child support as he's no longer the father anyway. One of my kids is in serious sports. They have camps and clinics all over the country. We usually pick one and travel to it each summer.

And, OP is not saying there are school or sports obligations. She doesn't want her child to visit dad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I might not completely remember what it was like to be a high schooler, but I don't think I'd want to spend my summers away from my friends in a place where the only person I knew was my dad...

Exactly. This sounds like a nightmare for a teen.

NP. That scenario is exactly why my godson, now an adult, doesn't see much of his dad. Dad moved many states away but insisted high schooler son visit at times like summer when son, as a teen, was missing out on high school activities, band camp (mandatory to play in band during the school year), etc. And dad treated those visits with a lot of neediness--he really pushed son to be happy about "our special time together" and expected son to focus on him as much as he was focusing on son. It seemed like the dad was so needy, demanding his son's attention and proclaiming how much fun fun fun they were having. The result is, now that son is in his 20s, he only visits dad maybe once a year and has been resisting dad's frequent "suggestions" that son move to dad's area. The son has said in front of me that it would be "too much 'togetherness.'" Dad created this situation for himself by being so clingy and dad was so clingy because he chose to move far from his son and treated visits as some kind of sacred, intense bonding time--not as just being together as parent and child.

Most "camps" and schools make exceptions for kids where they are in a visitation arrangement with another parent. They will not for a vacation but visitation is different. Dad didn't create the issue. You refusing to allow Dad summers is what caused the distance. You made up so many excuses as to why child cannot see Dad, child sided with you as he wanted to please you and now you got what you wanted, them having no relationship.

Projecting much, PP? I wrote the post above to which you're responding. The kid isn't mine--read more carefully; he's my godson, not my son.

But you leap to the assumption I'm an evil mom "refusing to allow" dad to have long-distance visitation.

If you'd actually read the post you'd also realize the mom DID send son to visit dad. Many times. Dad's needy, center-of-attention behavior is what alienated teen son. Mom did not "refuse to allow" visits nor did she "make excuses as to why child cannot see dad." You totally misread the post and are fabricating a situation based on your belief that moms are evil and keep kids from dads.

That is not what happened in my post. And by the way--those camps and schools that you say will make exceptions for kids missing things due to visitation? Maybe for younger kids or tweens, but all bets are off, once the child is a teen in high school. A serious sports program, or arts program, dance studio, music program, etc., is simply not going to "make exceptions" for a teen who cannot be present if there are mandatory summer practices, classes, rehearsals, etc. when the other teens in that program are there gaining skills over the summer. If a teen is serious about certain activities, an inflexible and insistent parent who keeps the teen away during those periods is a parent who puts himself or herself first. And reaps the results once the teen is grown and can say no thanks to visits.

There are plenty of sports and other camps all over the country. Yes, many schools will make exceptions to court ordered visitation. Its not reasonable for dad to get a few days at Christmas and a few days at spring break and then 2 weeks summer. At that point, just terminate his rights and stop taking child support as he's no longer the father anyway. One of my kids is in serious sports. They have camps and clinics all over the country. We usually pick one and travel to it each summer.

And, OP is not saying there are school or sports obligations. She doesn't want her child to visit dad.

OP said she didn't want DS gone the whole summer. Read the original post. That's not the same as "she doesn't want her child to visit dad."

You seem to be the same PP who is determined to make OP into a monster keeping DS from dad entirely.

As for your belief that "many schools will make exceptions to court ordered visitation" -- what do you mean? Do you mean "for" court ordered visitation? Sure, a teen can do summer sports or band camp wherever but don't expect that teen will be shooed right onto the team or stage at his or her high school back home because of doing a program elsewhere.

You seem not to know what high school level activities are actually like in most places, or how much they require in summers. Not talking about younger kids here but high school.