Making it work when the wife is the one with the "big job" - s/o today's NY Times article

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are household managers even a thing? Like, are there people who have such job?

I am a nanny/household manager. My charges are 4 and 3 and their parents are a typical 2-career DC power couple type. I manage all the paperwork for the children’s preschool/medical/summer camp/tutors/sports and so on. I trim their nails, take them to get haircuts and make sure we always have toothpaste. I research, vet, hire and schedule weekend sitters. I do all shopping, meal-planning and cooking for the family most weeks (including pre-portioning things for Boss’s diet plan and packing salads for Other Boss’s lunch). I manage the weekly cleaners and gardeners. I run all the little errands like dry-cleaning. I wait on the phone with customer service. I schedule home repairs with our handyman or call the plumber. In the last month I booked a storage unit, hired/supervised a packing service and hired/supervised movers when they decided to sell a vacation home. I also booked flights, hotel rooms and car service for upcoming travel and I will be in charge of packing the children’s bags, hiring a dogwalker while we are gone and managing the children during the entire trips, days and nights. The month before that, I ran a fundraising project at the preschool and updated the children’s wardrobes for spring.

Our nanny does this...she also organizes closets and drawers, ensures DC’s have appropriate clothing, monitors the school calendars for things like spirit and cultural day, keeps a family calendar, arranges play dates, researches summer camps/tutors/sports, etc, makes routine doctor/dentist appointments and takes DCS supervised homework, buys the majority of gifts and wraps them. I have no need to manage. She does most without any discussion or a simple text. I get home from work, I eat with my family and relax.

Serious question. Someone with the energy and executive functioning skills to do all of that (plus be an emotionally astute caregiver to kids!) seems like THEY could be an executive with a big job. How much do you have to pay a top-notch nanny like that, and why don't they work in other fields?

[Anonymous]

I'd hire someone- most men are not as good as handling a household, especially the ones raised by SAHMs. What really concerns me is the fact that he watches TV while you stay up until 2 AM to do work - major red flag. He seems selfish and self absorbed. Also another red flag is refusing to do activities with your DD. Is she the one with special needs? Is he embarrassed by her? He's too manly to do things with your daughter but also enjoys his wife's $$$.

[Anonymous]

She is paid $30 an hour on the books and makes way more than she did when she was formerly a teacher. The kids are also in school until the afternoon so she has time to do things other than caregiving. Just yesterday, she had ordered and changed the toner in our printer because it was low. There was no need for a conversation...she just takes care of what needs to be taken care of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She is paid $30 an hour on the books and makes way more than she did when she was formerly a teacher. The kids are also in school until the afternoon so she has time to do things other than caregiving. Just yesterday, she had ordered and changed the toner in our printer because it was low. There was no need for a conversation...she just takes care of what needs to be taken care of.

She also has a professional organizing business on the side that she does on the weekends. She always tells me that she’d hate working in an office and she has always been big on taking the kids outside for activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP: Point taken on the household manager. I can do that- and that would help a little- but I’m not skimping on the help as is. We have a lot of help, but managing the help is still a job. And as other PPs have pointed out there’s just stuff that can’t be outsourced, at least in terms of the way I’d like to parent. I wouldn’t even necessarily have a problem switching roles here, but that’s not what DH wants either - and the truth is that it wouldn’t be my preference. I just don’t think it’s fair that he gets to be the one that leans out while I’m the one that takes the role of the responsibilities of the one that leans out. Also, I’m not as concerned with dollar amounts (at all actually) as I am at the enormous differential in free time and what seems fair and right to me. If DH were a HS teacher making 50k and working his butt off, it wouldn’t bother me as much. So it’s not about the money, more the perception that the roles aren’t fair.

Op, you can’t have it all. You can’t both be a work superstar making $400k and also a superstar parent. If you can’t hire someone to parent the way you want them too, what makes you think you can force your dh into that role? Deal with the reality of the situation. You can’t do it all. Get a rockstar nanny to alleviate some of your burden. What is the point of an amazing career if you hate your husband and don’t have the time you want for your kids? He’s not your substitute.

Look at your post. You’re mad at him for having free time. You’d be happier if he were an underpaid teacher who was stretched as thin as you are. How is that good? How is that the right thing to want? He can’t be you, op. Hire help if you need it, and let go of some of your expectations around your home life. Other people won’t do things as well as you do them, and you have to be okay with that. The alternative is giving up your $400k income. I don’t think that’s what you want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but him being embarrassed to attend his children events?!?

Forgot the division of labor, I would have issues with him not being man enough to hang out with his daughter doing something she liked/loved. What if you died? She doesn’t get to do things because she doesn’t have a mom around.

+1 on this mess. Misogyny in plain view that he can’t stand the company of mothers or it somehow emasculates him. Was he some incel prior to meeting you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but him being embarrassed to attend his children events?!?

Forgot the division of labor, I would have issues with him not being man enough to hang out with his daughter doing something she liked/loved. What if you died? She doesn’t get to do things because she doesn’t have a mom around.

+1 on this mess. Misogyny in plain view that he can’t stand the company of mothers or it somehow emasculates him. Was he some incel prior to meeting you?

Eh, DH here. I’m super involved, work PT, and go to all my kids events. Other moms are friendly but distant. I’m sure he feels isolated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
How do I get over this? How do other people manage if you are in this position?

P.S. We do have help, because I know that's coming - but they need to be managed and micro-managed, or else stuff doesn't get done.

P.P.S. My job is not the kind that would allow me to just, work less. If I want to be successful at what I do I need to work the same kind of hours or tone it down so substantially that it would be a very different job.

I have several male co-workers married to woman with intense/well compensated careers. I’ve noticed that that the moms don’t opt out of child rearing the way it would still be socially acceptable for a high earning guy to do. Not sure how much is that the mom wants to be involved and how much is the husband doesn’t want to be the default parent.

So with that I would say
- they all had an au pair or nanny plus often the wife’s parents nearby
- most of the time regardless of who earns what, the wife drives the social calendar unless they are doing a couples activity I.e. line dancing, tennis, season tickets to a sporting event, or it’s that kind of neighborhood where families/couples all hang out together ...but this assumes you have that kind of time with your job and can get a babysitter
- you get the kids activities to the bare minimum that DH is WILLING to do and what you feel strongly enough about to clear YOUR schedule to do. Gender and activity may play a role as well. So if you want your kids in Girl Scouts (where typically moms are planning/volunteering for the activities), you find a troop where DH just has to know where and when to drop off and YOU volunteer enough to do your fair share on weekends. If you want to be involved in the PTA, pick the one thing that works with your schedule to volunteer or hard pass.
- vacations - beach/little planning and return to same rental every year or all inclusive/resort if your DH doesn’t plan vacations
- for appointments, shopping for clothes etc, talk with DH how he wants to handle the schedule. If he is fine with reminders/calendar invitations you can use technology to make it easier- set up recurring appointments for the chore/item that pops up on his calendar. Have your nanny/au pair to assist.
- The only thing for from the list of mental load that was really not optional or amenable to outsourcing or using technology to make it easier was keeping on top of the medicine and appointments for your child with special needs. Most of the couples I know with the wife with high powered career, the dad IS the first point of contact for the school if the child is sick etc. IMO that was the only thing that I would say we go to counseling if we can’t work this out. That can be a life or death situation if there is an issue with the medication.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but him being embarrassed to attend his children events?!?

Forgot the division of labor, I would have issues with him not being man enough to hang out with his daughter doing something she liked/loved. What if you died? She doesn’t get to do things because she doesn’t have a mom around.

+1 on this mess. Misogyny in plain view that he can’t stand the company of mothers or it somehow emasculates him. Was he some incel prior to meeting you?

Eh, DH here. I’m super involved, work PT, and go to all my kids events. Other moms are friendly but distant. I’m sure he feels isolated.

Yea, I subbed in at “dad” events when dh was deployed. It’s a different dynamic when you’re the only mom or dad there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: Point taken on the household manager. I can do that- and that would help a little- but I’m not skimping on the help as is. We have a lot of help, but managing the help is still a job. And as other PPs have pointed out there’s just stuff that can’t be outsourced, at least in terms of the way I’d like to parent. I wouldn’t even necessarily have a problem switching roles here, but that’s not what DH wants either - and the truth is that it wouldn’t be my preference. I just don’t think it’s fair that he gets to be the one that leans out while I’m the one that takes the role of the responsibilities of the one that leans out. Also, I’m not as concerned with dollar amounts (at all actually) as I am at the enormous differential in free time and what seems fair and right to me. If DH were a HS teacher making 50k and working his butt off, it wouldn’t bother me as much. So it’s not about the money, more the perception that the roles aren’t fair.

You need more competent help if you spend anymore than 15 minutes a day managing the help.

This. I am the DW who makes the most in our HH by order of magnitudes and the reality is that the children aren't raised 100% the way I want them to be raised if I stayed home. You have to let some things go. There are other benefits to my working that compensate for what I can't bring to the table due to my hours.

[Anonymous]

My mom was you and my dad was your husband. They ended up getting a divorce and my mom getting primary custody, forcing her to "lean out". I think my dad was resentful of my mom's position more so than her being upset that he just wanted to golf all the time and not help with the kids. The divorce cost millions. My mom struggled to give us the life we had before and had to take a less demanding position. Us, the kids are who suffered in the end. I felt resented. Looking back, the money/status destroyed my family/childhood. We could have lived on so much less and been so much happier.

[Anonymous]

OP, thanks for posting that article. It's really interesting and as someone who has "mommy-tracked" myself, I can relate to that. My husband did take a year off from work once when I wanted to jump start my career. He was great and truly 'leaned in' with a great attitude and really relished being the only dad at pre-school events, etc. But he did say it wore on him - he was a novelty and an "amazing" dad for doing what moms do every day. Your husband would have to be very comfortable in his skin to put up with what dads put up with being the default parent and it sounds like he's just not up for that. I wish more were - but sounds like your husband doesn't want to be the trailblazer in your social circle in that regard.

I will also say that I took some time off from work when the kids were little and I "should" have done a lot of things around the house, but it's a hard job and there were non-urgent things around keeping our house organized that I just found difficult and draining emotionally. So I can relate to him not wanting to do some of the things you think he should do.

A lot of the above posts are talking about what your husband should do because he earns less. Like you, I don't think that's the issue. If he made a quarter of what he makes but it was more demanding but ultimately fulfilling for him, then that would be a different story.

The reality is, he is "leaning out" by being home more with the kids - dinner, bedtime, etc. And it sounds like he values downtime and may need that to re-charge. There should clearly be some kind of compromise but I think it's unrealistic to expect that he's going to change dramatically and be the Type A person making all those things happen.

I know you are resentful that you are not sleeping enough and doing much more, but there are some of those things you can outsource. There are some areas where you two need to talk more - he can't *just* do what he enjoys. But he can't feel like you are bossing him around and that he has no sense of agency and control in his life.

Good luck. It's a tough problem you have but ultimately there are a lot of choices and options you have and hopefully the two of you will find something that works for you both.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You both work full time. That means you split other stuff 50/50. The burden doesn’t get placed on one spouse because they make less. You’re free to lean out and also still make a ton of money. Your income is over half mil a year. Figure it the eff out.

I agree that $ made isn't the determining factor. But it seemed like OP had the job the required longer hours, more stress, and less flexibility. Because of that he needs to shoulder more of the load. And those types of jobs generally will pay more than ones with reasonable hours, flexibility and less stress.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: Point taken on the household manager. I can do that- and that would help a little- but I’m not skimping on the help as is. We have a lot of help, but managing the help is still a job. And as other PPs have pointed out there’s just stuff that can’t be outsourced, at least in terms of the way I’d like to parent. I wouldn’t even necessarily have a problem switching roles here, but that’s not what DH wants either - and the truth is that it wouldn’t be my preference. I just don’t think it’s fair that he gets to be the one that leans out while I’m the one that takes the role of the responsibilities of the one that leans out. Also, I’m not as concerned with dollar amounts (at all actually) as I am at the enormous differential in free time and what seems fair and right to me. If DH were a HS teacher making 50k and working his butt off, it wouldn’t bother me as much. So it’s not about the money, more the perception that the roles aren’t fair.

Op, you can’t have it all. You can’t both be a work superstar making $400k and also a superstar parent. If you can’t hire someone to parent the way you want them too, what makes you think you can force your dh into that role? Deal with the reality of the situation. You can’t do it all. Get a rockstar nanny to alleviate some of your burden. What is the point of an amazing career if you hate your husband and don’t have the time you want for your kids? He’s not your substitute.

Look at your post. You’re mad at him for having free time. You’d be happier if he were an underpaid teacher who was stretched as thin as you are. How is that good? How is that the right thing to want? He can’t be you, op. Hire help if you need it, and let go of some of your expectations around your home life. Other people won’t do things as well as you do them, and you have to be okay with that. The alternative is giving up your $400k income. I don’t think that’s what you want.

+100. You can’t force someone to sacrifice for something they don’t believe in and you can only control you. What can YOU change to relieve this anxiety, is it your expectations, is it what you take on, is it being able to delegate to nanny/au pair/household manager?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: Point taken on the household manager. I can do that- and that would help a little- but I’m not skimping on the help as is. We have a lot of help, but managing the help is still a job. And as other PPs have pointed out there’s just stuff that can’t be outsourced, at least in terms of the way I’d like to parent. I wouldn’t even necessarily have a problem switching roles here, but that’s not what DH wants either - and the truth is that it wouldn’t be my preference. I just don’t think it’s fair that he gets to be the one that leans out while I’m the one that takes the role of the responsibilities of the one that leans out. Also, I’m not as concerned with dollar amounts (at all actually) as I am at the enormous differential in free time and what seems fair and right to me. If DH were a HS teacher making 50k and working his butt off, it wouldn’t bother me as much. So it’s not about the money, more the perception that the roles aren’t fair.

Op, you can’t have it all. You can’t both be a work superstar making $400k and also a superstar parent. If you can’t hire someone to parent the way you want them too, what makes you think you can force your dh into that role? Deal with the reality of the situation. You can’t do it all. Get a rockstar nanny to alleviate some of your burden. What is the point of an amazing career if you hate your husband and don’t have the time you want for your kids? He’s not your substitute.

Look at your post. You’re mad at him for having free time. You’d be happier if he were an underpaid teacher who was stretched as thin as you are. How is that good? How is that the right thing to want? He can’t be you, op. Hire help if you need it, and let go of some of your expectations around your home life. Other people won’t do things as well as you do them, and you have to be okay with that. The alternative is giving up your $400k income. I don’t think that’s what you want.

OP, this person has hit the nail on the head. Please listen to them.