Making it work when the wife is the one with the "big job" - s/o today's NY Times article

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure someone has posted about this already, but there was a great article in today's NY Times about working parents dealing with long hours, essentially saying that someone has to lean out and it's usually the mom, which widens the gender gap: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/26/upshot/women-long-hours-greedy-professions.html?fbclid=IwAR1_UoCV34qcfBXqadhkj6YvaFY4QTEI-VuDFakohVYxmeSCaOAzaD7GSMU

I have a spin on this and I would love input from others who may be in my situation. (Side note: not sure if this should have been in general parenting or jobs/careers but I'm going to leave it here since I think this is the best fit).

My husband and I are both highly educated and have professional jobs. We made the decision for me to lean in and him to lean out since that's what made sense in terms of an earning potential perspective. He makes about 200k and will probably not make too much more than that in the long term unless he leans way in, and even then it's a huge crapshoot. I make about double what he does, and have the very reasonable potential to keep making more and more and more, the way I have done every year. My income is basically just limited to my own time and ability to concentrate on work instead of family.

He is great about getting home earlier than me to handle bedtime and can predictably be back by about 6-6:30 pm most nights. He is also pretty good at doing what he's told if I give him concrete tasks (i.e. laundry) although he's been giving me more and more push back about some of these lately. He also does a ton around the house, but mostly stuff that he wants to do, like lawn care.

Where we struggle is that (a) he refuses, and I mean refuses to take on the mental load that all these ladies in this article take on. In fairness, they all work PT and he doesn't, so there's that. But I don't think that I can be the breadwinner and balance this mental load. There is literally always something that needs to be figured out or done, and usually it would take too much time to explain to someone else or have them do so I generally end up doing it myself. He is 100% adamant that he is not willing to be "in charge" of the kid stuff even if I trade for some of his other responsibilities.

He'll do what he is asked (again.. mostly..not always..) but he's not the COO of our household as it relates to the people inside it. I'm the one managing the calendar; hiring/managing the help we have; managing our special need's child's many doctors appointments and I'm supposed to be managing her medications which has been a big struggle; managing our social life as a couple and as a family; making sure the kids are enrolled in activities and camps and whatever else; scheduling well visits and haircuts and making sure everyone has shoes to fit and seasonally appropriate clothes to wear and this, that and the other. Making sure homework is done and tests are studied for; writing grocery lists and cleaning out the fridge each week (he will shop if I give him a list); buying birthday gifts; ordering Christmas cards; dentist and well-child appointments; camp paperwork. I mean I could just keep going for a year. This is by no means an exhaustive list.

While I know that I don't do it all, I feel like it most of the time (in fairness, maybe he does too - he says he does - and I know that he also does plenty esp for the outside and tech support type stuff). But I literally stay up until 2-3 am every day working so that I can balance my work and doing everything, and I feel so damn resentful when he's watching tv and relaxing at night since he has extra time at the end of the day.

What set me over the edge lately was that he explained that he thinks I have a terrible work-life balance (this is true but it's also sort of a prerequisite for someone with the kind of job I have, and he's not exactly complaining about the income - far from it) and said that he's resentful and unwilling to attend events for our children that are typically attended by mothers. He feels very upset about three instances when he had to attend preschool events for one of our children and he was the only father there and felt embarrassed. I don't think he was upset about missing work at all or the ramifications of that, just that it was humiliating for him to be the only dad there. And that he's DONE going to girl scouts or whatever else I've asked him to do on a very irregular basis throughout the years so I could work.

I feel like I was already at my breaking point with our division of labor and this new revelation about how he refuses to go to "mom stuff" just burns me up inside. I literally can't keep up. I have almost no social life and make very little time for myself, and am constantly stressed and overworked. I can't take on more; I need to take on LESS. I don't think it's fair that he agrees that I should be the one to "lean in" when he's refusing to do the household work that goes along with the role of the spouse that leans out.

I told him that the only way I could really make this work in my mind is if he starts leaning in more, because then I could at least justify it in my mind. But the fact that he's watching tv for hours every night while I'm on the verge of an anxiety attack is just making me angry. It's obviously not that we need the money, but I wouldn't feel as used. And right now that is how I feel. He's not willing to do that and thinks that it's still better for the kids if he's physically present at night. In my core I think he's probably right, but that's not helping with the extreme resentment.

How do I get over this? How do other people manage if you are in this position?

P.S. We do have help, because I know that's coming - but they need to be managed and micro-managed, or else stuff doesn't get done.

P.P.S. My job is not the kind that would allow me to just, work less. If I want to be successful at what I do I need to work the same kind of hours or tone it down so substantially that it would be a very different job.

He is not holding up his end of the bargain. You are leaning in, and he is not leaning out - leaning out means picking up the lion's share of the home front, and he is actively NOT doing that.

What is his rationale for not owning the mental load?

This question is absurd. He works full time and makes $200k a year. Why should "owning the mental load" also be a thing he has to do at all?

Because he brings in 33% of their HHI. She brings in 67%.

Someone has to handle the household and kids. Does it make more sense for the person who makes 1/3 of the family income to do it or the person who makes 2/3? If the genders were reversed you would be advising the lower earner that their income is irrelevant and they should stay home or work part time if they can’t handle the basics of the household.

I wouldn’t, but I guess you would.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are household managers even a thing? Like, are there people who have such job?

I am a nanny/household manager. My charges are 4 and 3 and their parents are a typical 2-career DC power couple type. I manage all the paperwork for the children’s preschool/medical/summer camp/tutors/sports and so on. I trim their nails, take them to get haircuts and make sure we always have toothpaste. I research, vet, hire and schedule weekend sitters. I do all shopping, meal-planning and cooking for the family most weeks (including pre-portioning things for Boss’s diet plan and packing salads for Other Boss’s lunch). I manage the weekly cleaners and gardeners. I run all the little errands like dry-cleaning. I wait on the phone with customer service. I schedule home repairs with our handyman or call the plumber. In the last month I booked a storage unit, hired/supervised a packing service and hired/supervised movers when they decided to sell a vacation home. I also booked flights, hotel rooms and car service for upcoming travel and I will be in charge of packing the children’s bags, hiring a dogwalker while we are gone and managing the children during the entire trips, days and nights. The month before that, I ran a fundraising project at the preschool and updated the children’s wardrobes for spring.

[Anonymous]

For all the pps are who are arguing that the dh shouldn't have to be the primary parent/hh manager because he also works full-time and makes 200k: It was a mutual decision to prioritize her significantly higher paying job. He agreed to this. It sounds like he enjoys the material rewards of a partner who earns as much as OP does. For this arrangement to work, he (as the lower earning spouse) has to do the lion's share of the domestic work. OP shouldn't have to think about anything except her work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are household managers even a thing? Like, are there people who have such job?

I am a nanny/household manager. My charges are 4 and 3 and their parents are a typical 2-career DC power couple type. I manage all the paperwork for the children’s preschool/medical/summer camp/tutors/sports and so on. I trim their nails, take them to get haircuts and make sure we always have toothpaste. I research, vet, hire and schedule weekend sitters. I do all shopping, meal-planning and cooking for the family most weeks (including pre-portioning things for Boss’s diet plan and packing salads for Other Boss’s lunch). I manage the weekly cleaners and gardeners. I run all the little errands like dry-cleaning. I wait on the phone with customer service. I schedule home repairs with our handyman or call the plumber. In the last month I booked a storage unit, hired/supervised a packing service and hired/supervised movers when they decided to sell a vacation home. I also booked flights, hotel rooms and car service for upcoming travel and I will be in charge of packing the children’s bags, hiring a dogwalker while we are gone and managing the children during the entire trips, days and nights. The month before that, I ran a fundraising project at the preschool and updated the children’s wardrobes for spring.

How much do you get paid?

[Anonymous]

Why is he embarrassed to be the only dad? Most moms I know think it's sexy when a man is involved with his kids.

[Anonymous]

Women are best for home bodies, men are not

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For all the pps are who are arguing that the dh shouldn't have to be the primary parent/hh manager because he also works full-time and makes 200k: It was a mutual decision to prioritize her significantly higher paying job. He agreed to this. It sounds like he enjoys the material rewards of a partner who earns as much as OP does. For this arrangement to work, he (as the lower earning spouse) has to do the lion's share of the domestic work. OP shouldn't have to think about anything except her work.

Why push a square peg into a round hole? This is not his skillset. Together they make an extraordinary amount of money. Enough to hire someone like the pp who listed out her duties above. A person like that would absolutely change the dynamic between op and her dh. Apparently op has the aptitude for it, but not the time. Her dh has the time, but not the aptitude. So take some of that $600k hhi and hire someone capable of the work. Smart people delegate tasks to the most capable. Trying to force the dh to take on household tasks he’s not good at and has no interest in makes zero sense, unless op’s goal is to punish him rather than partner with him.

[Anonymous]

Yes, household managers are most definitely a THING. Pick up any Ivy League alumni magazine and it's extremely likely you'll see an ad for one. Most ask at least a 2 year commitment. Heck, someone posted an ad like this in the Nanny Forum recently.

It is a not uncommon temporary path for someone who finishes college without a career path in mind. Or someone who wants to pay off some student loans before enrolling in some not particularly lucrative grad program like a master's in education or a MFA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For all the pps are who are arguing that the dh shouldn't have to be the primary parent/hh manager because he also works full-time and makes 200k: It was a mutual decision to prioritize her significantly higher paying job. He agreed to this. It sounds like he enjoys the material rewards of a partner who earns as much as OP does. For this arrangement to work, he (as the lower earning spouse) has to do the lion's share of the domestic work. OP shouldn't have to think about anything except her work.

Why push a square peg into a round hole? This is not his skillset. Together they make an extraordinary amount of money. Enough to hire someone like the pp who listed out her duties above. A person like that would absolutely change the dynamic between op and her dh. Apparently op has the aptitude for it, but not the time. Her dh has the time, but not the aptitude. So take some of that $600k hhi and hire someone capable of the work. Smart people delegate tasks to the most capable. Trying to force the dh to take on household tasks he’s not good at and has no interest in makes zero sense, unless op’s goal is to punish him rather than partner with him.

He agreed to take on that work. We don’t know whether he has the aptitude, because he has not even tried.

[Anonymous]

OP: Point taken on the household manager. I can do that- and that would help a little- but I’m not skimping on the help as is. We have a lot of help, but managing the help is still a job. And as other PPs have pointed out there’s just stuff that can’t be outsourced, at least in terms of the way I’d like to parent. I wouldn’t even necessarily have a problem switching roles here, but that’s not what DH wants either - and the truth is that it wouldn’t be my preference. I just don’t think it’s fair that he gets to be the one that leans out while I’m the one that takes the role of the responsibilities of the one that leans out. Also, I’m not as concerned with dollar amounts (at all actually) as I am at the enormous differential in free time and what seems fair and right to me. If DH were a HS teacher making 50k and working his butt off, it wouldn’t bother me as much. So it’s not about the money, more the perception that the roles aren’t fair.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is he embarrassed to be the only dad? Most moms I know think it's sexy when a man is involved with his kids.

Maybe if the dad is already hot, sure. But he is still excluded from mom socializing, play dates one on one at each other’s houses can be contentious, being an involved dad makes you weird. And I guess SOL if you aren’t also hot.

[Anonymous]

Differential in free time is your core issue. Quit talking about it in terms of “leaning out” to someone earning in the top 5% of American households by himself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are household managers even a thing? Like, are there people who have such job?

I am a nanny/household manager. My charges are 4 and 3 and their parents are a typical 2-career DC power couple type. I manage all the paperwork for the children’s preschool/medical/summer camp/tutors/sports and so on. I trim their nails, take them to get haircuts and make sure we always have toothpaste. I research, vet, hire and schedule weekend sitters. I do all shopping, meal-planning and cooking for the family most weeks (including pre-portioning things for Boss’s diet plan and packing salads for Other Boss’s lunch). I manage the weekly cleaners and gardeners. I run all the little errands like dry-cleaning. I wait on the phone with customer service. I schedule home repairs with our handyman or call the plumber. In the last month I booked a storage unit, hired/supervised a packing service and hired/supervised movers when they decided to sell a vacation home. I also booked flights, hotel rooms and car service for upcoming travel and I will be in charge of packing the children’s bags, hiring a dogwalker while we are gone and managing the children during the entire trips, days and nights. The month before that, I ran a fundraising project at the preschool and updated the children’s wardrobes for spring.

Our nanny does this...she also organizes closets and drawers, ensures DC’s have appropriate clothing, monitors the school calendars for things like spirit and cultural day, keeps a family calendar, arranges play dates, researches summer camps/tutors/sports, etc, makes routine doctor/dentist appointments and takes DCS supervised homework, buys the majority of gifts and wraps them. I have no need to manage. She does most without any discussion or a simple text. I get home from work, I eat with my family and relax.

[Anonymous]

An au pair for the kids, and a housekeeper. It's worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP: Point taken on the household manager. I can do that- and that would help a little- but I’m not skimping on the help as is. We have a lot of help, but managing the help is still a job. And as other PPs have pointed out there’s just stuff that can’t be outsourced, at least in terms of the way I’d like to parent. I wouldn’t even necessarily have a problem switching roles here, but that’s not what DH wants either - and the truth is that it wouldn’t be my preference. I just don’t think it’s fair that he gets to be the one that leans out while I’m the one that takes the role of the responsibilities of the one that leans out. Also, I’m not as concerned with dollar amounts (at all actually) as I am at the enormous differential in free time and what seems fair and right to me. If DH were a HS teacher making 50k and working his butt off, it wouldn’t bother me as much. So it’s not about the money, more the perception that the roles aren’t fair.

You need more competent help if you spend anymore than 15 minutes a day managing the help.