Making it work when the wife is the one with the "big job" - s/o today's NY Times article

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: Point taken on the household manager. I can do that- and that would help a little- but I’m not skimping on the help as is. We have a lot of help, but managing the help is still a job. And as other PPs have pointed out there’s just stuff that can’t be outsourced, at least in terms of the way I’d like to parent. I wouldn’t even necessarily have a problem switching roles here, but that’s not what DH wants either - and the truth is that it wouldn’t be my preference. I just don’t think it’s fair that he gets to be the one that leans out while I’m the one that takes the role of the responsibilities of the one that leans out. Also, I’m not as concerned with dollar amounts (at all actually) as I am at the enormous differential in free time and what seems fair and right to me. If DH were a HS teacher making 50k and working his butt off, it wouldn’t bother me as much. So it’s not about the money, more the perception that the roles aren’t fair.

You need more competent help if you spend anymore than 15 minutes a day managing the help.

Kids have needs that can only be met by parents. Emotional needs, developmental needs, noticing things that are going on with them. These things cannot be outsourced. One of the parents has to be tuned in and proactive. That’s just the way it is. It’s what we sign up for it when we decide to become parents.

But that has nothing to do with finding a competent person that doesn't need to be micro-managed re: what towels go in which closet, or which kid is lactose-intolerant, making haircut appointments, presenting summer camp options, filling out paperwork, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: Point taken on the household manager. I can do that- and that would help a little- but I’m not skimping on the help as is. We have a lot of help, but managing the help is still a job. And as other PPs have pointed out there’s just stuff that can’t be outsourced, at least in terms of the way I’d like to parent. I wouldn’t even necessarily have a problem switching roles here, but that’s not what DH wants either - and the truth is that it wouldn’t be my preference. I just don’t think it’s fair that he gets to be the one that leans out while I’m the one that takes the role of the responsibilities of the one that leans out. Also, I’m not as concerned with dollar amounts (at all actually) as I am at the enormous differential in free time and what seems fair and right to me. If DH were a HS teacher making 50k and working his butt off, it wouldn’t bother me as much. So it’s not about the money, more the perception that the roles aren’t fair.

You need more competent help if you spend anymore than 15 minutes a day managing the help.

Kids have needs that can only be met by parents. Emotional needs, developmental needs, noticing things that are going on with them. These things cannot be outsourced. One of the parents has to be tuned in and proactive. That’s just the way it is. It’s what we sign up for it when we decide to become parents.

But that has nothing to do with finding a competent person that doesn't need to be micro-managed re: what towels go in which closet, or which kid is lactose-intolerant, making haircut appointments, presenting summer camp options, filling out paperwork, etc.

So he puts the towels in the "wrong" closet and signs the kids up for the "wrong" camp and takes them to the "wrong" hair dresser. It won't be the end of the world. Seriously. Let him do this stuff his way. Outsource the rest. But stop trying to micromanage his every move because that is not going to end well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: Point taken on the household manager. I can do that- and that would help a little- but I’m not skimping on the help as is. We have a lot of help, but managing the help is still a job. And as other PPs have pointed out there’s just stuff that can’t be outsourced, at least in terms of the way I’d like to parent. I wouldn’t even necessarily have a problem switching roles here, but that’s not what DH wants either - and the truth is that it wouldn’t be my preference. I just don’t think it’s fair that he gets to be the one that leans out while I’m the one that takes the role of the responsibilities of the one that leans out. Also, I’m not as concerned with dollar amounts (at all actually) as I am at the enormous differential in free time and what seems fair and right to me. If DH were a HS teacher making 50k and working his butt off, it wouldn’t bother me as much. So it’s not about the money, more the perception that the roles aren’t fair.

You need more competent help if you spend anymore than 15 minutes a day managing the help.

Kids have needs that can only be met by parents. Emotional needs, developmental needs, noticing things that are going on with them. These things cannot be outsourced. One of the parents has to be tuned in and proactive. That’s just the way it is. It’s what we sign up for it when we decide to become parents.

Do you think Einstein's mother fussed over Einstein to the extent parents do in 2019? I dont think so. I think parents burden themselves with such crazy expectations, it's not good for their own mental well-being as can be seen from OP's post.

Einstein was a late talker, which no doubt worried his mom. His teachers thought that he had little in the way of potential....so, yeah, his mom was probably pulling her hair out over him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: Point taken on the household manager. I can do that- and that would help a little- but I’m not skimping on the help as is. We have a lot of help, but managing the help is still a job. And as other PPs have pointed out there’s just stuff that can’t be outsourced, at least in terms of the way I’d like to parent. I wouldn’t even necessarily have a problem switching roles here, but that’s not what DH wants either - and the truth is that it wouldn’t be my preference. I just don’t think it’s fair that he gets to be the one that leans out while I’m the one that takes the role of the responsibilities of the one that leans out. Also, I’m not as concerned with dollar amounts (at all actually) as I am at the enormous differential in free time and what seems fair and right to me. If DH were a HS teacher making 50k and working his butt off, it wouldn’t bother me as much. So it’s not about the money, more the perception that the roles aren’t fair.

You need more competent help if you spend anymore than 15 minutes a day managing the help.

Kids have needs that can only be met by parents. Emotional needs, developmental needs, noticing things that are going on with them. These things cannot be outsourced. One of the parents has to be tuned in and proactive. That’s just the way it is. It’s what we sign up for it when we decide to become parents.

But that has nothing to do with finding a competent person that doesn't need to be micro-managed re: what towels go in which closet, or which kid is lactose-intolerant, making haircut appointments, presenting summer camp options, filling out paperwork, etc.

So he puts the towels in the "wrong" closet and signs the kids up for the "wrong" camp and takes them to the "wrong" hair dresser. It won't be the end of the world. Seriously. Let him do this stuff his way. Outsource the rest. But stop trying to micromanage his every move because that is not going to end well.

I'm pretty sure he isn't putting away towels OR signing the kids up for camps.

The point is that it doesn't even cross his mind that the kids will need activities/child care for the summer, or if it does, it doesn't register that it's something he could arrange to take it off his spouse's plate while he's watching TV on the couch at night.

I get it. My own husband won't even think about dinner until I get home. Even if I have something going on, unless I tell him to get take out he'll wait until I arrive home at 8, 8:30, 9:00 and ask what do I want to do for dinner. The kids will still be up even though they should have been in bed at 8:30, on their tablets, without having had dinner. If I had the $ I think I'd ask for a divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: Point taken on the household manager. I can do that- and that would help a little- but I’m not skimping on the help as is. We have a lot of help, but managing the help is still a job. And as other PPs have pointed out there’s just stuff that can’t be outsourced, at least in terms of the way I’d like to parent. I wouldn’t even necessarily have a problem switching roles here, but that’s not what DH wants either - and the truth is that it wouldn’t be my preference. I just don’t think it’s fair that he gets to be the one that leans out while I’m the one that takes the role of the responsibilities of the one that leans out. Also, I’m not as concerned with dollar amounts (at all actually) as I am at the enormous differential in free time and what seems fair and right to me. If DH were a HS teacher making 50k and working his butt off, it wouldn’t bother me as much. So it’s not about the money, more the perception that the roles aren’t fair.

You need more competent help if you spend anymore than 15 minutes a day managing the help.

Kids have needs that can only be met by parents. Emotional needs, developmental needs, noticing things that are going on with them. These things cannot be outsourced. One of the parents has to be tuned in and proactive. That’s just the way it is. It’s what we sign up for it when we decide to become parents.

But that has nothing to do with finding a competent person that doesn't need to be micro-managed re: what towels go in which closet, or which kid is lactose-intolerant, making haircut appointments, presenting summer camp options, filling out paperwork, etc.

So he puts the towels in the "wrong" closet and signs the kids up for the "wrong" camp and takes them to the "wrong" hair dresser. It won't be the end of the world. Seriously. Let him do this stuff his way. Outsource the rest. But stop trying to micromanage his every move because that is not going to end well.

I'm pretty sure he isn't putting away towels OR signing the kids up for camps.

The point is that it doesn't even cross his mind that the kids will need activities/child care for the summer, or if it does, it doesn't register that it's something he could arrange to take it off his spouse's plate while he's watching TV on the couch at night.

I get it. My own husband won't even think about dinner until I get home. Even if I have something going on, unless I tell him to get take out he'll wait until I arrive home at 8, 8:30, 9:00 and ask what do I want to do for dinner. The kids will still be up even though they should have been in bed at 8:30, on their tablets, without having had dinner. If I had the $ I think I'd ask for a divorce.

This is my experience too. I usually have a weekday plan, but on the weekends I play a little game where I wait to see how long it takes him to notice. Its usually around 6:30pm when one of the kids tells him they are starving. Then he looks at me and says "did we have something in mind for dinner?" I want to strangle him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm really perplexed at all the people saying "hire a house manager" etc.

We make over 800k and I wouldn't hire a house manager at our income. House managers cost a lot of money! You need to pay them a professional salary + benefits. Not worth it.

My husband is the breadwinner though I work too and make decent money (~150k). He is a detail oriented perfectionist and a CIO at his company. He's great at "mommy stuff" and remembering the kids' details.

I just don't get all these people in here saying men are bad at this stuff. They're not "bad" at it. They just don't want to do it so they make you think they are bad at it. There is a difference.

Someone who manages a portfolio of funds or works as a law partner should be able to manage a few details about the home front.

So your husband makes 700k +, is a c-suite executive, and carries 50% of the load at home? You married a unicorn. Why are you in here bragging?

I don't know if he's that uncommon or not but the point is, he shouldn't be. I signed up to be his partner, not his mommy. When we had our first baby and I went back to work, I basically told him "I'm going to do my part but not yours so you need to figure it out." and he did.

He's a great, super involved father and husband now and has been for years (our eldest is 10).

This.

DH and I are partners. Honestly, he shoulders more of the kids stuff than I do since his job is more flexible and he is physically around more.

I don't think anyone would disagree that marriages that are partnerships tend to work better than those that don't. Those can take different forms.

What's laughable in this case is that the guy makes *$700K* AND is Mr. Mom. GTFO with those expectations. His salary ALONE makes him a unicorn, and the PP's seeming obliviousness on that front borders on insulting.

Wife of the unicorn guy here. He is out grocery shopping right now, lol. You’re right, he is Mr. Mom. He is a very natural, warm, nurturing, hands on parent. Our kids love us equally and he is just as much the default parent as I am, maybe more. Depends on the kid, honestly (my daughter is very much a momma’s girl). In terms of him shouldering half of the load: most of that probably comes down to the fact that he doesn’t like to hire things out. Yes he makes a lot of money and we can afford it but we’re also trying to build our net worth so we don’t like wasting money on things we can easily do ourselves.

I feel bad for women who don’t have a partner like him. I feel bad for kids who don’t have an involved, hands on father like him. I don’t know what to tell you except: it’s definitely possible. You just have to have high standards. We’ve been married for 15 years and I trained him into the good husband he is now. He grew up in a traditional household (mom was a SAHM) and I had to let him know that wouldn’t be me. He accepts that.

Spare us your pity, please. You got damn lucky to find someone to meet your exceptionally high standards while you were still old enough to have kids.

Also, plenty of kids have involved, hands on fathers. They just don't all make $700K.

Very curious how someone can be that chill and nurturing and make $700k? Business, law, tech even medicine you kinda have to be a brutal cutthroat to get to that level. What does he do that allows him to thrive without being taken advantage of?

PP already said he's the CIO of some company.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: Point taken on the household manager. I can do that- and that would help a little- but I’m not skimping on the help as is. We have a lot of help, but managing the help is still a job. And as other PPs have pointed out there’s just stuff that can’t be outsourced, at least in terms of the way I’d like to parent. I wouldn’t even necessarily have a problem switching roles here, but that’s not what DH wants either - and the truth is that it wouldn’t be my preference. I just don’t think it’s fair that he gets to be the one that leans out while I’m the one that takes the role of the responsibilities of the one that leans out. Also, I’m not as concerned with dollar amounts (at all actually) as I am at the enormous differential in free time and what seems fair and right to me. If DH were a HS teacher making 50k and working his butt off, it wouldn’t bother me as much. So it’s not about the money, more the perception that the roles aren’t fair.

You need more competent help if you spend anymore than 15 minutes a day managing the help.

Kids have needs that can only be met by parents. Emotional needs, developmental needs, noticing things that are going on with them. These things cannot be outsourced. One of the parents has to be tuned in and proactive. That’s just the way it is. It’s what we sign up for it when we decide to become parents.

But that has nothing to do with finding a competent person that doesn't need to be micro-managed re: what towels go in which closet, or which kid is lactose-intolerant, making haircut appointments, presenting summer camp options, filling out paperwork, etc.

So he puts the towels in the "wrong" closet and signs the kids up for the "wrong" camp and takes them to the "wrong" hair dresser. It won't be the end of the world. Seriously. Let him do this stuff his way. Outsource the rest. But stop trying to micromanage his every move because that is not going to end well.

I'm pretty sure he isn't putting away towels OR signing the kids up for camps.

The point is that it doesn't even cross his mind that the kids will need activities/child care for the summer, or if it does, it doesn't register that it's something he could arrange to take it off his spouse's plate while he's watching TV on the couch at night.

I get it. My own husband won't even think about dinner until I get home. Even if I have something going on, unless I tell him to get take out he'll wait until I arrive home at 8, 8:30, 9:00 and ask what do I want to do for dinner. The kids will still be up even though they should have been in bed at 8:30, on their tablets, without having had dinner. If I had the $ I think I'd ask for a divorce.

Tell him that he's in charge of summer camps this year. Get them booked soon or we'll need to hire a nanny/sitter over the summer. Then stick to your guns and let him handle it.

Waiting for you to get home and feed the kids is ridiculous. Text him and remind him that you'll be home late and dinner/bedtime is on him.

If you rush in and take it over all the time he will never learn to pitch in and just get it done.

[Anonymous]

Here's what you do. Make a looooong master list of every chore and responsibility the two of you have together related to the house and your kids. Include small details like who plans vacations, who braids your daughter's hair, who updates the kids' wardrobes. No detail is too small to go on your list at this point.

Then you divide the list according to interest/ability/time. Your husband drives by Costco or the dry cleaner on his way home? He stops and gets that done. Anything that's on his list - anything - you totally ignore. Including important things like school paperwork or doctor's appointments. No one will die if he forgets and this item falls through the cracks. But, if he is a decent person, he will feel bad that he didn't get it done and he will try harder in the future.

[Anonymous]

^ If he's not a decent person and doesn't feel bad when he doesn't fulfill his responsibilities - then you should probably start thinking about divorcing him.

Life is too damn short to have to mother your own husband. There are other fish in the sea!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: Point taken on the household manager. I can do that- and that would help a little- but I’m not skimping on the help as is. We have a lot of help, but managing the help is still a job. And as other PPs have pointed out there’s just stuff that can’t be outsourced, at least in terms of the way I’d like to parent. I wouldn’t even necessarily have a problem switching roles here, but that’s not what DH wants either - and the truth is that it wouldn’t be my preference. I just don’t think it’s fair that he gets to be the one that leans out while I’m the one that takes the role of the responsibilities of the one that leans out. Also, I’m not as concerned with dollar amounts (at all actually) as I am at the enormous differential in free time and what seems fair and right to me. If DH were a HS teacher making 50k and working his butt off, it wouldn’t bother me as much. So it’s not about the money, more the perception that the roles aren’t fair.

You need more competent help if you spend anymore than 15 minutes a day managing the help.

Kids have needs that can only be met by parents. Emotional needs, developmental needs, noticing things that are going on with them. These things cannot be outsourced. One of the parents has to be tuned in and proactive. That’s just the way it is. It’s what we sign up for it when we decide to become parents.

But that has nothing to do with finding a competent person that doesn't need to be micro-managed re: what towels go in which closet, or which kid is lactose-intolerant, making haircut appointments, presenting summer camp options, filling out paperwork, etc.

So he puts the towels in the "wrong" closet and signs the kids up for the "wrong" camp and takes them to the "wrong" hair dresser. It won't be the end of the world. Seriously. Let him do this stuff his way. Outsource the rest. But stop trying to micromanage his every move because that is not going to end well.

I'm pretty sure he isn't putting away towels OR signing the kids up for camps.

The point is that it doesn't even cross his mind that the kids will need activities/child care for the summer, or if it does, it doesn't register that it's something he could arrange to take it off his spouse's plate while he's watching TV on the couch at night.

I get it. My own husband won't even think about dinner until I get home. Even if I have something going on, unless I tell him to get take out he'll wait until I arrive home at 8, 8:30, 9:00 and ask what do I want to do for dinner. The kids will still be up even though they should have been in bed at 8:30, on their tablets, without having had dinner. If I had the $ I think I'd ask for a divorce.

This is my experience too. I usually have a weekday plan, but on the weekends I play a little game where I wait to see how long it takes him to notice. Its usually around 6:30pm when one of the kids tells him they are starving. Then he looks at me and says "did we have something in mind for dinner?" I want to strangle him.

Why don’t you just skip the weekly game and agree right now that your husband is in charge of dinner on the weekends?

[Anonymous]

Oh,you poor rich people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are household managers even a thing? Like, are there people who have such job?

I am a nanny/household manager. My charges are 4 and 3 and their parents are a typical 2-career DC power couple type. I manage all the paperwork for the children’s preschool/medical/summer camp/tutors/sports and so on. I trim their nails, take them to get haircuts and make sure we always have toothpaste. I research, vet, hire and schedule weekend sitters. I do all shopping, meal-planning and cooking for the family most weeks (including pre-portioning things for Boss’s diet plan and packing salads for Other Boss’s lunch). I manage the weekly cleaners and gardeners. I run all the little errands like dry-cleaning. I wait on the phone with customer service. I schedule home repairs with our handyman or call the plumber. In the last month I booked a storage unit, hired/supervised a packing service and hired/supervised movers when they decided to sell a vacation home. I also booked flights, hotel rooms and car service for upcoming travel and I will be in charge of packing the children’s bags, hiring a dogwalker while we are gone and managing the children during the entire trips, days and nights. The month before that, I ran a fundraising project at the preschool and updated the children’s wardrobes for spring.

Our nanny does this...she also organizes closets and drawers, ensures DC’s have appropriate clothing, monitors the school calendars for things like spirit and cultural day, keeps a family calendar, arranges play dates, researches summer camps/tutors/sports, etc, makes routine doctor/dentist appointments and takes DCS supervised homework, buys the majority of gifts and wraps them. I have no need to manage. She does most without any discussion or a simple text. I get home from work, I eat with my family and relax.

Serious question. Someone with the energy and executive functioning skills to do all of that (plus be an emotionally astute caregiver to kids!) seems like THEY could be an executive with a big job. How much do you have to pay a top-notch nanny like that, and why don't they work in other fields?

NP. We pay ours about $75-$80K a year. She loves kids, so that's why she wants to be a nanny, but she was also willing to transition to more of a house manager as they got older in order to remain in their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Remind me why you and your DH had kids again? Just to check it off your bucket list? Kids take time. Make the time for them.

Exactly. Slow the eff down, OP. Your children will be out of the house before you know it and you won't even know who they are. It blows my mind that people who can make this much money still choose to spend almost no time with their kids. Poor kids.

Agree. Might give a different answer if you were both mission driven or making a real difference in the world, but this seems all about the money. There are more important things in life. Don't miss out on time with your kids. They will be gone soon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: Point taken on the household manager. I can do that- and that would help a little- but I’m not skimping on the help as is. We have a lot of help, but managing the help is still a job. And as other PPs have pointed out there’s just stuff that can’t be outsourced, at least in terms of the way I’d like to parent. I wouldn’t even necessarily have a problem switching roles here, but that’s not what DH wants either - and the truth is that it wouldn’t be my preference. I just don’t think it’s fair that he gets to be the one that leans out while I’m the one that takes the role of the responsibilities of the one that leans out. Also, I’m not as concerned with dollar amounts (at all actually) as I am at the enormous differential in free time and what seems fair and right to me. If DH were a HS teacher making 50k and working his butt off, it wouldn’t bother me as much. So it’s not about the money, more the perception that the roles aren’t fair.

You need more competent help if you spend anymore than 15 minutes a day managing the help.

Kids have needs that can only be met by parents. Emotional needs, developmental needs, noticing things that are going on with them. These things cannot be outsourced. One of the parents has to be tuned in and proactive. That’s just the way it is. It’s what we sign up for it when we decide to become parents.

But that has nothing to do with finding a competent person that doesn't need to be micro-managed re: what towels go in which closet, or which kid is lactose-intolerant, making haircut appointments, presenting summer camp options, filling out paperwork, etc.

So he puts the towels in the "wrong" closet and signs the kids up for the "wrong" camp and takes them to the "wrong" hair dresser. It won't be the end of the world. Seriously. Let him do this stuff his way. Outsource the rest. But stop trying to micromanage his every move because that is not going to end well.

I'm pretty sure he isn't putting away towels OR signing the kids up for camps.

The point is that it doesn't even cross his mind that the kids will need activities/child care for the summer, or if it does, it doesn't register that it's something he could arrange to take it off his spouse's plate while he's watching TV on the couch at night.

I get it. My own husband won't even think about dinner until I get home. Even if I have something going on, unless I tell him to get take out he'll wait until I arrive home at 8, 8:30, 9:00 and ask what do I want to do for dinner. The kids will still be up even though they should have been in bed at 8:30, on their tablets, without having had dinner. If I had the $ I think I'd ask for a divorce.

Same here. Totally brainless and self centered. Can’t do a kids simple morning routine even after five years. Adderall helps.