Making it work when the wife is the one with the "big job" - s/o today's NY Times article

[Anonymous]

Your poor kids.

[Anonymous]

I really feel for you. There are so many things moms do that take up time. All you listed, plus buying them new everything each year (clothing, seasonal items such as sandals swimsuits), stuff for school, arrange play dates, the family social stuff, the paperwork for everything kid related, finding good activities for the kids, volunteering or participating at preschool or school events, the birthday party invites/present shopping, so many little errands. These are just off the top of my head.

I think you need a highly paid person doing all this for you. He’s not. When your burden is lighter, resentment will lessen.

It did for me.
We both work FT and I was up 2-4 times breastfeeding. For 2 years I had shitty sleep and not enough of it, tired all the time. He said he couldn’t help because I was breastfeeding, which was understandable. But my second child refused the Brest from day one, and even with the second child, my DH woke up what, a handful of times compared to the more than a thousand times I woke up to feed the infant/toddler. Then I was doing all the mental Mommy tasks and I got resentful. He would tell me to do less, but he wasn’t going to do more so I could do less. Our HHI was not even $200k combined so each outsourcing decision was painfully made and I felt guilty about it (cleaning every 3 weeks, hire someone to do drop offs 2-3 times a week to save me time, hire someone to mow the grass so it frees up DH’s time to do other chores). I finally accepted that my sanity now was more important than saving for college or saving more for retirement. We outsourced until I reached a balance that was more tolerable for me, plus after the child was about 2.5 years old, I finally started being able to sleep through the night, which enabled me to be better rested. I can’t believe how many years of sleep sacrifice it took to get here. I get mad all over again once in a while when I read these NYT articles that remind me of it.

Back to your situation, I think you’ll just have to let all the miscellaneous mommy tasks slide. See how he feels about things once you stop doing the misc stuff. Quite possibly he still won’t lean in more, but at least hopefully he’ll be more appreciative of you or stop telling you infuriating comments such as you have a terrible work life balance.

[Anonymous]

You have two complaints about your DH, one valid, one not.

Your first complaint is that he won't carry the mental load of making sure that all sorts of things that you think are important are done to your exact specifications, which includes micromanaging the help. He may not think all of those things are important, they may only be important to you, and he may be right. Even if he isn't right, if you want everything done in a particular way, that's something you need to do yourself, or accept that your priorities are elsewhere, in leaning in to your career.

The other complaint is that he thinks it is not manly to be a dad attending mom events. You're right to be mad about that one, it's some ridiculous bullshit and your DH is wrong on that. As a breadwinning dad, I'm almost embarrassed by the inordinate amount of credit that I get for doing very simple things like showing up at the school a few times a year during my workday. Not only are the moms at the school nice to me and make remarks like "I wish I could get my husband to show up," but I also earn goodwill from the women who work with me by showing that our talk about work-life balance isn't lip service.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: Point taken on the household manager. I can do that- and that would help a little- but I’m not skimping on the help as is. We have a lot of help, but managing the help is still a job. And as other PPs have pointed out there’s just stuff that can’t be outsourced, at least in terms of the way I’d like to parent. I wouldn’t even necessarily have a problem switching roles here, but that’s not what DH wants either - and the truth is that it wouldn’t be my preference. I just don’t think it’s fair that he gets to be the one that leans out while I’m the one that takes the role of the responsibilities of the one that leans out. Also, I’m not as concerned with dollar amounts (at all actually) as I am at the enormous differential in free time and what seems fair and right to me. If DH were a HS teacher making 50k and working his butt off, it wouldn’t bother me as much. So it’s not about the money, more the perception that the roles aren’t fair.

You need more competent help if you spend anymore than 15 minutes a day managing the help.

Kids have needs that can only be met by parents. Emotional needs, developmental needs, noticing things that are going on with them. These things cannot be outsourced. One of the parents has to be tuned in and proactive. That’s just the way it is. It’s what we sign up for it when we decide to become parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure someone has posted about this already, but there was a great article in today's NY Times about working parents dealing with long hours, essentially saying that someone has to lean out and it's usually the mom, which widens the gender gap: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/26/upshot/women-long-hours-greedy-professions.html?fbclid=IwAR1_UoCV34qcfBXqadhkj6YvaFY4QTEI-VuDFakohVYxmeSCaOAzaD7GSMU

I have a spin on this and I would love input from others who may be in my situation. (Side note: not sure if this should have been in general parenting or jobs/careers but I'm going to leave it here since I think this is the best fit).

My husband and I are both highly educated and have professional jobs. We made the decision for me to lean in and him to lean out since that's what made sense in terms of an earning potential perspective. He makes about 200k and will probably not make too much more than that in the long term unless he leans way in, and even then it's a huge crapshoot. I make about double what he does, and have the very reasonable potential to keep making more and more and more, the way I have done every year. My income is basically just limited to my own time and ability to concentrate on work instead of family.

He is great about getting home earlier than me to handle bedtime and can predictably be back by about 6-6:30 pm most nights. He is also pretty good at doing what he's told if I give him concrete tasks (i.e. laundry) although he's been giving me more and more push back about some of these lately. He also does a ton around the house, but mostly stuff that he wants to do, like lawn care.

Where we struggle is that (a) he refuses, and I mean refuses to take on the mental load that all these ladies in this article take on. In fairness, they all work PT and he doesn't, so there's that. But I don't think that I can be the breadwinner and balance this mental load. There is literally always something that needs to be figured out or done, and usually it would take too much time to explain to someone else or have them do so I generally end up doing it myself. He is 100% adamant that he is not willing to be "in charge" of the kid stuff even if I trade for some of his other responsibilities.

He'll do what he is asked (again.. mostly..not always..) but he's not the COO of our household as it relates to the people inside it. I'm the one managing the calendar; hiring/managing the help we have; managing our special need's child's many doctors appointments and I'm supposed to be managing her medications which has been a big struggle; managing our social life as a couple and as a family; making sure the kids are enrolled in activities and camps and whatever else; scheduling well visits and haircuts and making sure everyone has shoes to fit and seasonally appropriate clothes to wear and this, that and the other. Making sure homework is done and tests are studied for; writing grocery lists and cleaning out the fridge each week (he will shop if I give him a list); buying birthday gifts; ordering Christmas cards; dentist and well-child appointments; camp paperwork. I mean I could just keep going for a year. This is by no means an exhaustive list.

While I know that I don't do it all, I feel like it most of the time (in fairness, maybe he does too - he says he does - and I know that he also does plenty esp for the outside and tech support type stuff). But I literally stay up until 2-3 am every day working so that I can balance my work and doing everything, and I feel so damn resentful when he's watching tv and relaxing at night since he has extra time at the end of the day.

What set me over the edge lately was that he explained that he thinks I have a terrible work-life balance (this is true but it's also sort of a prerequisite for someone with the kind of job I have, and he's not exactly complaining about the income - far from it) and said that he's resentful and unwilling to attend events for our children that are typically attended by mothers. He feels very upset about three instances when he had to attend preschool events for one of our children and he was the only father there and felt embarrassed. I don't think he was upset about missing work at all or the ramifications of that, just that it was humiliating for him to be the only dad there. And that he's DONE going to girl scouts or whatever else I've asked him to do on a very irregular basis throughout the years so I could work.

I feel like I was already at my breaking point with our division of labor and this new revelation about how he refuses to go to "mom stuff" just burns me up inside. I literally can't keep up. I have almost no social life and make very little time for myself, and am constantly stressed and overworked. I can't take on more; I need to take on LESS. I don't think it's fair that he agrees that I should be the one to "lean in" when he's refusing to do the household work that goes along with the role of the spouse that leans out.

I told him that the only way I could really make this work in my mind is if he starts leaning in more, because then I could at least justify it in my mind. But the fact that he's watching tv for hours every night while I'm on the verge of an anxiety attack is just making me angry. It's obviously not that we need the money, but I wouldn't feel as used. And right now that is how I feel. He's not willing to do that and thinks that it's still better for the kids if he's physically present at night. In my core I think he's probably right, but that's not helping with the extreme resentment.

How do I get over this? How do other people manage if you are in this position?

P.S. We do have help, because I know that's coming - but they need to be managed and micro-managed, or else stuff doesn't get done.

P.P.S. My job is not the kind that would allow me to just, work less. If I want to be successful at what I do I need to work the same kind of hours or tone it down so substantially that it would be a very different job.

He is not holding up his end of the bargain. You are leaning in, and he is not leaning out - leaning out means picking up the lion's share of the home front, and he is actively NOT doing that.

What is his rationale for not owning the mental load?

This question is absurd. He works full time and makes $200k a year. Why should "owning the mental load" also be a thing he has to do at all?

Because he brings in 33% of their HHI. She brings in 67%.
Someone has to handle the household and kids. Does it make more sense for the person who makes 1/3 of the family income to do it or the person who makes 2/3? If the genders were reversed you would be advising the lower earner that their income is irrelevant and they should stay home or work part time if they can’t handle the basics of the household.

Ridiculous statement. Case in point: I am a psychologist and my DH is a psychiatrist. He makes about 67 percent of our HHI and I make about 33 percent. We both work similar hours in similar types of jobs. So am I still stuck with working full time and having mental and physical load of managing our home and children? Basically just because I picked a career with less income potential than my husband’s? Does not sound fair to me...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP: Point taken on the household manager. I can do that- and that would help a little- but I’m not skimping on the help as is. We have a lot of help, but managing the help is still a job. And as other PPs have pointed out there’s just stuff that can’t be outsourced, at least in terms of the way I’d like to parent. I wouldn’t even necessarily have a problem switching roles here, but that’s not what DH wants either - and the truth is that it wouldn’t be my preference. I just don’t think it’s fair that he gets to be the one that leans out while I’m the one that takes the role of the responsibilities of the one that leans out. Also, I’m not as concerned with dollar amounts (at all actually) as I am at the enormous differential in free time and what seems fair and right to me. If DH were a HS teacher making 50k and working his butt off, it wouldn’t bother me as much. So it’s not about the money, more the perception that the roles aren’t fair.

You need more competent help if you spend anymore than 15 minutes a day managing the help.

Kids have needs that can only be met by parents. Emotional needs, developmental needs, noticing things that are going on with them. These things cannot be outsourced. One of the parents has to be tuned in and proactive. That’s just the way it is. It’s what we sign up for it when we decide to become parents.

What does this have to do with managing the help? OP and her DH spend the evenings with their kids as do most dual working parents. No one suggested she tune out...rather she let someone else make the classroom snack or order new jeans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are household managers even a thing? Like, are there people who have such job?

I am a nanny/household manager. My charges are 4 and 3 and their parents are a typical 2-career DC power couple type. I manage all the paperwork for the children’s preschool/medical/summer camp/tutors/sports and so on. I trim their nails, take them to get haircuts and make sure we always have toothpaste. I research, vet, hire and schedule weekend sitters. I do all shopping, meal-planning and cooking for the family most weeks (including pre-portioning things for Boss’s diet plan and packing salads for Other Boss’s lunch). I manage the weekly cleaners and gardeners. I run all the little errands like dry-cleaning. I wait on the phone with customer service. I schedule home repairs with our handyman or call the plumber. In the last month I booked a storage unit, hired/supervised a packing service and hired/supervised movers when they decided to sell a vacation home. I also booked flights, hotel rooms and car service for upcoming travel and I will be in charge of packing the children’s bags, hiring a dogwalker while we are gone and managing the children during the entire trips, days and nights. The month before that, I ran a fundraising project at the preschool and updated the children’s wardrobes for spring.

Our nanny does this...she also organizes closets and drawers, ensures DC’s have appropriate clothing, monitors the school calendars for things like spirit and cultural day, keeps a family calendar, arranges play dates, researches summer camps/tutors/sports, etc, makes routine doctor/dentist appointments and takes DCS supervised homework, buys the majority of gifts and wraps them. I have no need to manage. She does most without any discussion or a simple text. I get home from work, I eat with my family and relax.

Serious question. Someone with the energy and executive functioning skills to do all of that (plus be an emotionally astute caregiver to kids!) seems like THEY could be an executive with a big job. How much do you have to pay a top-notch nanny like that, and why don't they work in other fields?

I am the nanny/household manager upthread. In my current job I make about $75,000 a year. I work 60-70 hours per week most weeks, but I am on call Mondays at 7am until Friday night (I am paid a weekly retainer for overnight hours since both bosses have last-minute work travel or evening events). I probably could have done something different but I love my job. I love kids in general and my charges in particular. I enjoy having a close and friendly relationship with my bosses. I genuinely enjoy a lot of my daily tasks (cooking, dishes, laundry are all meditative and I can listen to podcasts or audiobooks while I work). I am fascinated by child development and regularly read up on new developments in the field or approaches to discipline/education and most childcare and teaching is painfully underpaid so nannying is actually a step up for someone who wants to work with very young children. I also love getting to travel with the family (even though I am on the clock). I love that I can wear yoga pants and sneakers to work. I love that if it snows I get to go sledding and if it is a beautiful sunny warm day I can spent it outside. I love holidays and planning halloween costumes and easter baskets. I love that I can sing and dance all afternoon if I feel like it. I like painting and coloring and playdough. Even the tedious stuff like waiting on hold with the cable company I don’t mind because I think of it as giving my employers the gift of time together with their kids so it is actually meaningful vs dridgery. I just truly love my job and my life with a passion.

[Anonymous]

He doesn’t get home until 6-6:30 on most nights and later on others ? And he has the less demanding job? What time do you get home? What time do your kids get to bed? Who takes your special needs child to all their doctor’s appointments? What time do you and your DH leave in the morning? How old are your children?

If you make $400k and your DH makes $200k. Either of you make enough for one of you to be home full time or at least half time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are household managers even a thing? Like, are there people who have such job?

I am a nanny/household manager. My charges are 4 and 3 and their parents are a typical 2-career DC power couple type. I manage all the paperwork for the children’s preschool/medical/summer camp/tutors/sports and so on. I trim their nails, take them to get haircuts and make sure we always have toothpaste. I research, vet, hire and schedule weekend sitters. I do all shopping, meal-planning and cooking for the family most weeks (including pre-portioning things for Boss’s diet plan and packing salads for Other Boss’s lunch). I manage the weekly cleaners and gardeners. I run all the little errands like dry-cleaning. I wait on the phone with customer service. I schedule home repairs with our handyman or call the plumber. In the last month I booked a storage unit, hired/supervised a packing service and hired/supervised movers when they decided to sell a vacation home. I also booked flights, hotel rooms and car service for upcoming travel and I will be in charge of packing the children’s bags, hiring a dogwalker while we are gone and managing the children during the entire trips, days and nights. The month before that, I ran a fundraising project at the preschool and updated the children’s wardrobes for spring.

Our nanny does this...she also organizes closets and drawers, ensures DC’s have appropriate clothing, monitors the school calendars for things like spirit and cultural day, keeps a family calendar, arranges play dates, researches summer camps/tutors/sports, etc, makes routine doctor/dentist appointments and takes DCS supervised homework, buys the majority of gifts and wraps them. I have no need to manage. She does most without any discussion or a simple text. I get home from work, I eat with my family and relax.

Serious question. Someone with the energy and executive functioning skills to do all of that (plus be an emotionally astute caregiver to kids!) seems like THEY could be an executive with a big job. How much do you have to pay a top-notch nanny like that, and why don't they work in other fields?

I am the nanny/household manager upthread. In my current job I make about $75,000 a year. I work 60-70 hours per week most weeks, but I am on call Mondays at 7am until Friday night (I am paid a weekly retainer for overnight hours since both bosses have last-minute work travel or evening events). I probably could have done something different but I love my job. I love kids in general and my charges in particular. I enjoy having a close and friendly relationship with my bosses. I genuinely enjoy a lot of my daily tasks (cooking, dishes, laundry are all meditative and I can listen to podcasts or audiobooks while I work). I am fascinated by child development and regularly read up on new developments in the field or approaches to discipline/education and most childcare and teaching is painfully underpaid so nannying is actually a step up for someone who wants to work with very young children. I also love getting to travel with the family (even though I am on the clock). I love that I can wear yoga pants and sneakers to work. I love that if it snows I get to go sledding and if it is a beautiful sunny warm day I can spent it outside. I love holidays and planning halloween costumes and easter baskets. I love that I can sing and dance all afternoon if I feel like it. I like painting and coloring and playdough. Even the tedious stuff like waiting on hold with the cable company I don’t mind because I think of it as giving my employers the gift of time together with their kids so it is actually meaningful vs dridgery. I just truly love my job and my life with a passion.

Ok jus clone yourself and have OP hire you. Problem solved!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are household managers even a thing? Like, are there people who have such job?

Yes—there are agencies that arrange this kind of help. My parents used to do this for very rich families/individuals. Many, but not all jobs were live-in. They would handle all event planning, day-to-day cooking, purchases/shopping, arranging for repairs, overseeing cleaners and other staff, etc.

[Anonymous]

I’m sorry, OP. Your husband sucks.

[Anonymous]

For $600k a year, you can hire better help. You need a professional household manager who manages your housekeeper, signs for deliveries, meal plans and puts groceries away, keeps in season clothes in all the closets, schedules lessons and appointments, chauffeurs kids, keeps calendars up to date, reads school newsletters, etc.

I have entry level professionals with college degrees who work for me at a large consulting firm for $55k. You could get a real go getter for $75k

This solves all you problems except

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For $600k a year, you can hire better help. You need a professional household manager who manages your housekeeper, signs for deliveries, meal plans and puts groceries away, keeps in season clothes in all the closets, schedules lessons and appointments, chauffeurs kids, keeps calendars up to date, reads school newsletters, etc.

I have entry level professionals with college degrees who work for me at a large consulting firm for $55k. You could get a real go getter for $75k

This solves all you problems except

Except having an adult at school functions- do you have grandparents or aunts and uncles in the area who can also go to school stuff? If not, you and your husband need to suck it up and find a way to be present for your kids.

[Anonymous]

Remind me why you and your DH had kids again? Just to check it off your bucket list? Kids take time. Make the time for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For $600k a year, you can hire better help. You need a professional household manager who manages your housekeeper, signs for deliveries, meal plans and puts groceries away, keeps in season clothes in all the closets, schedules lessons and appointments, chauffeurs kids, keeps calendars up to date, reads school newsletters, etc.

I have entry level professionals with college degrees who work for me at a large consulting firm for $55k. You could get a real go getter for $75k

This solves all you problems except

Except having an adult at school functions- do you have grandparents or aunts and uncles in the area who can also go to school stuff? If not, you and your husband need to suck it up and find a way to be present for your kids.

My parents rarely attended school functions...NBD