S/O playdates, socializing and SES

[Anonymous]

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High SES children's birthday parties can easily turn into carefully-controlled events; parties with no party-fun. Parents shouldn't worry about other parents eating the food, who is making a mess, who brought an extra child, who didn't bring a gift, who didn't remember to NOT BRING a gift, who arrived late, and so forth.

For me, running out of food is the most embarrassing thing at an adult party or children's birthday party. Let it goooo, let it goooo!

I'm asian and this is so trueeeee- running out of food should be the only worry. its a party! Noone wants to party with uptight white ppl who keep clapping their hands and say "ok now we are moving on to x activity I saw on pinterest" (in a high pitched voice)
My parents were well off and we socialized with people who had catered events in huge houses and people who were living 5 to a 2 bedroom apartment and you ALWAYS have something in common. Sports or tv shows or recipes, music, commute, cable companies suck, apple versus samsung?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm low income and I just do not like people like you. We accept invitations from genuine, down to Earth people who don't consume themselves with why others don't want to "play" with them. We don't like the rabbit food, or the vegan cakes, or the chit chat about work (yes, we work too). We like to go to parties, not networking events that include children (that's what it feels like), or try to figure out what to do with the sibling of close age that is not welcome. Our parties are fun, loud, have plenty of real food and drinks, music is on, entire families are welcome, and no one feels judged for not bringing a gift. So as much as your little imagination would like to think that we are intimidated by your wealth, we are more turned off by your boring , food-less, only the child invited can come even though we think you're a single parent, bring a gift or else birthday parties. Go on and flame away, but it is what it is.

Sorry, but if you can afford to throw a party with lots of food and drinks where entire families come, you are not what I consider "low income." Low income are the kids at our school who get food through blessings in a backpack for the weekend. Maybe you're not as affluent as the people you don't like who are inviting you to parties, which is a different matter entirely.

Yes, we are low income. That doesn't mean we don't know how to save and manage a budget. Besides that, in our world everyone brings something to the party. More than half of our monthly income goes to rent. We just know how to work with what we have. Maybe you're surprised to hear from someone like me on this forum, but now you know that we don't all experience being poor the same way. We bust our asses to make sure our kids have everything they need, even if that means we don't eat so they can. We are highly involved in their school, they are both well above grade level, and in the enrichment program. I don't really need to explain my life to you. I just hope you can see past what you think poor looks like because it's not one size fits all.

+1

Yes, there are some families who are severely impoverished and literally cannot by food. There are also tons of families - like mine growing up - that were pretty damned poor growing up and still managed to feed our guests at birthday parties by limiting our guest list to close friends, having it at our house, and making pasta salads and casseroles that cost $.10 a portion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm low income and I just do not like people like you. We accept invitations from genuine, down to Earth people who don't consume themselves with why others don't want to "play" with them. We don't like the rabbit food, or the vegan cakes, or the chit chat about work (yes, we work too). We like to go to parties, not networking events that include children (that's what it feels like), or try to figure out what to do with the sibling of close age that is not welcome. Our parties are fun, loud, have plenty of real food and drinks, music is on, entire families are welcome, and no one feels judged for not bringing a gift. So as much as your little imagination would like to think that we are intimidated by your wealth, we are more turned off by your boring , food-less, only the child invited can come even though we think you're a single parent, bring a gift or else birthday parties. Go on and flame away, but it is what it is.

Good point about some parents not having resources to care for siblings while they attend a party - something for the higher SES folks to consider in party planning. But, it's kind of sad that you would skip a party for your kid's friend because you don't like the food and can't stand talking to people who are different from you for a couple of hours.

[Anonymous]

This thread is somewhat amusing. I particularly love the low income moms replies and agree with a lot of what she says (although we are not low income now, both DH and I grew up that way). I'm also curious as to how previous posters know what other people's SES is, or are people just assuming these families are low income? People assume all of the time that our family is low income, and quite frankly I believe it's because we are young minorities, and, outside of work, have a more "urban" way of dressing. In all other respects we're pretty DCUM average. What's funny is the moment I open my mouth, white/ high income individuals seem to be taken aback by the fact that I'm actually articulate. They're even more surprised when/if they ever make it to my house. Maybe people are not coming to your parties because of the deeper assumptions you are making about who they are; their level of income, language and other abilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread is somewhat amusing. I particularly love the low income moms replies and agree with a lot of what she says (although we are not low income now, both DH and I grew up that way). I'm also curious as to how previous posters know what other people's SES is, or are people just assuming these families are low income? People assume all of the time that our family is low income, and quite frankly I believe it's because we are young minorities, and, outside of work, have a more "urban" way of dressing. In all other respects we're pretty DCUM average. What's funny is the moment I open my mouth, white/ high income individuals seem to be taken aback by the fact that I'm actually articulate. They're even more surprised when/if they ever make it to my house. Maybe people are not coming to your parties because of the deeper assumptions you are making about who they are; their level of income, language and other abilities.

I think you answered your own question. We are also a minority family (I'll say black or Latino), and I commented earlier in the thread that I'm sure people make assumptions about us too. My husband is typically dressed down at dropoff and pickup (hoodies, sweats, etc.) but is actually a physician with a pretty rarefied upbringing (elite boarding schools & universities). You wouldn't know at first glance, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is somewhat amusing. I particularly love the low income moms replies and agree with a lot of what she says (although we are not low income now, both DH and I grew up that way). I'm also curious as to how previous posters know what other people's SES is, or are people just assuming these families are low income? People assume all of the time that our family is low income, and quite frankly I believe it's because we are young minorities, and, outside of work, have a more "urban" way of dressing. In all other respects we're pretty DCUM average. What's funny is the moment I open my mouth, white/ high income individuals seem to be taken aback by the fact that I'm actually articulate. They're even more surprised when/if they ever make it to my house. Maybe people are not coming to your parties because of the deeper assumptions you are making about who they are; their level of income, language and other abilities.

I think you answered your own question. We are also a minority family (I'll say black or Latino), and I commented earlier in the thread that I'm sure people make assumptions about us too. My husband is typically dressed down at dropoff and pickup (hoodies, sweats, etc.) but is actually a physician with a pretty rarefied upbringing (elite boarding schools & universities). You wouldn't know at first glance, though.

My kids go to a pretentious and expensive pre-school. My son's best friend, who is black, was applying to a top private school and his mom, also a friend of mine, ran into another mom from our pre-school at an admission event who pulled her aside to let her know that the private school didn't offer financial aid. I was floored. How does that mom think my friend pays for two kids to go to a pretentious pre-school? The daycare scholarship package? But my surprise may be predicated on the fact that I'm white, since my friend found the whole thing only slightly surprising.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is somewhat amusing. I particularly love the low income moms replies and agree with a lot of what she says (although we are not low income now, both DH and I grew up that way). I'm also curious as to how previous posters know what other people's SES is, or are people just assuming these families are low income? People assume all of the time that our family is low income, and quite frankly I believe it's because we are young minorities, and, outside of work, have a more "urban" way of dressing. In all other respects we're pretty DCUM average. What's funny is the moment I open my mouth, white/ high income individuals seem to be taken aback by the fact that I'm actually articulate. They're even more surprised when/if they ever make it to my house. Maybe people are not coming to your parties because of the deeper assumptions you are making about who they are; their level of income, language and other abilities.

I think you answered your own question. We are also a minority family (I'll say black or Latino), and I commented earlier in the thread that I'm sure people make assumptions about us too. My husband is typically dressed down at dropoff and pickup (hoodies, sweats, etc.) but is actually a physician with a pretty rarefied upbringing (elite boarding schools & universities). You wouldn't know at first glance, though.

But inquiring minds want to know: do you go to playdates and birthday parties at the white kids' houses? If not, why not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is somewhat amusing. I particularly love the low income moms replies and agree with a lot of what she says (although we are not low income now, both DH and I grew up that way). I'm also curious as to how previous posters know what other people's SES is, or are people just assuming these families are low income? People assume all of the time that our family is low income, and quite frankly I believe it's because we are young minorities, and, outside of work, have a more "urban" way of dressing. In all other respects we're pretty DCUM average. What's funny is the moment I open my mouth, white/ high income individuals seem to be taken aback by the fact that I'm actually articulate. They're even more surprised when/if they ever make it to my house. Maybe people are not coming to your parties because of the deeper assumptions you are making about who they are; their level of income, language and other abilities.

I think you answered your own question. We are also a minority family (I'll say black or Latino), and I commented earlier in the thread that I'm sure people make assumptions about us too. My husband is typically dressed down at dropoff and pickup (hoodies, sweats, etc.) but is actually a physician with a pretty rarefied upbringing (elite boarding schools & universities). You wouldn't know at first glance, though.

But inquiring minds want to know: do you go to playdates and birthday parties at the white kids' houses? If not, why not?

I'm the poster who posted this ... and yes, I ABSOLUTELY do. What's more important to me is that the invite/host be genuine in wanting us/ our kids there and that our children are comfortable. I went to a pretty elite NYC private (on scholarship) and was the "token" for years, so figuring this out is not difficult. If I feel like the host is not genuine, I will still attend, for my kids, but I may limit the amount of time we stay at a party or if we continue to schedule playdates.

DH is mixed (black/white), and, ironically, is the less tolerant one (less inclined to want to attend functions at white family's homes). This is likely due to negative experiences growing up mixed, but he will also attend for the kids (or me if I don't want to go alone). Like me, he is more concerned with whether the hosts are genuine, and his experiences haven't been as positive in this regard as mine. I'd imagine gender plays a role in this as well, but can't speak definitively about his experiences/reasons.

FWIW both of our siblings are married across the spectrum, nieces and nephews range from lily-white/blonde/blue eyes to dark brown/kinky curly/black hair and eyes ... our Christmas card could be a United Colors of Benetton ad

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are going into year 3 of our Title 1 neighborhood school and have dealt with the birthday party issue for 3 years in a row (were at a different but similar demographic school for PK3). I posted about a year and a half ago about how to bridge language/cultural issues to get my DD's best friend to come to her birthday party. BFF is Latina and her mom doesn't speak English confidently. I got a lot of great advice here, and BFF came to the birthday party and it was wonderful. BFF came to birthday party this year too, and mom and I see each other in the neighborhood regularly and she always hugs me.

What I have noticed is that when your kids are young, it doesn't matter if you know the kid. If you do not also know the parent, you may need to enlist the help of the teacher to set up playdates and such. I volunteer in DD's classroom all the time, and by the end of this past year, I knew every kid in her class pretty well, but I only knew about half the parents. You have to make an effort, and you have to do it continually. My school has a history of higher SES white parents coming to school for a year or two and then trading up, and to put it bluntly, the rest of the community knows that and may not be interested in bothering to make friends with you because you're just gonna leave anyway. The only way to prove them wrong is to not do that, which was the choice we made.

The people who are saying that they don't feel they have things in common with their kids' friends' parents are certainly onto something, but I would imagine that most of you have experienced social interactions with people you share little with. How did you handle those experiences? If you're worried about what they think of you, remember that they are likely just as worried about being judged. Then remember that you are both the parents of kids, and start there. My two BFFs at Clara's school are young women whose lives couldn't be more different than mine. Was it awkward at first because we come from really different worlds? Yes, but it got less awkward the more we hung out. Now those two women are, hands down, the people I would call in the middle of the night with an emergency - probably over my higher SES friends.

About birthday parties: it's easier (for them) if you invite the whole family. My DD's BFF is one of 3, and all 3 have come to her birthday parties. If your child goes to a school where a lot of kids speak Spanish, get some help translating the invitation. Don't use Evite - send paper invitations home with kids and enlist the teacher's help with contact information if you need to track down RSVPs. This year, we did RSVP as "call or text English o Espanol to xxx-xxx-xxxx!"

+1. We do all of these things and at my kids' school to make sure everyone gets included that my kids want there. First, we hunt the parents down at back to school night and introduce ourselves - "my little Larlo just loves your little Larlon. Can we get them together?" I then follow through. If I don't get a response, I speak to the kid directly and tell them how much my kid wants to play with them. The first playdate takes place at a park, where I can meet the parent and hang out a bit. Topic of conversation: parenting! My son is such a PITA - is yours? How do you handle XYZ? When it's a birthday party, I make sure I evite, call, text, and talk to the teacher. The teacher gets a list of the kids invited, and they help me contact the parents. The party takes place right after school on a Friday. I make arrangements to pick the kids up and take them to a park, where the parents can pick them up. If the parents want to send XYZ sister or brother along, they are welcome with open arms (even if internally I'm counting the party favors). When the parents show up to pick up the kids, I offer them pizza and drinks. I downplay presents and make it all about how exciting it is that the kids are there, because that's what it's about.

Some parents are more responsive than others, but I've made it work. It takes a bit more effort, but if I offer to pick up the kids at a convenient time for them for a playdate, the parents generally are responsive. I know that transportation and logistics can be super difficult when working a couple of jobs, so it's worth it to me to make the logistics less painful. And, the parents reciprocate in other ways. One of the moms picks up my kids and takes them along with her son by bus to soccer practice. Another mom dropped off food TWICE when I was in the hospital. So it works.

By the way, one cool thing that I've learned is that DC Stoddert has a "no questions asked" full scholarship for kids who want to play soccer. That was a huge breakthrough for us this year - we helped a bunch of parents get their kids registered for the soccer team, and I've gotten a lot closer to them during the season.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly I have to agree with the pp. I'm an African American middle-class parent of a toddler. I'm comfortable in all settings. Yet I sometimes get the impression that some of the white families don't even try to strike up a conversation with me and my husband. My husband and I were just speaking about this the other day. Is there really such a cultural divide? I've traveled all over the world and think I have lots to say about many topics, but often find if I don't initiate the conversation it doesn't happen. Very interesting.

Have to agree re my Title I school. The white parents stick together. They only speak to one another on the playground. They don't even say hi to anyone else. One parent is a busybody who actively recruits other white parents to get together with, but ignores Latino and Black parents.

I don't presume to know the income of my daughter's classmates, Title I or not. I had a birthday party recently. I invited the whole class. I provided food for adults and children, cause anything else is kind of rude in my culture. In my culture, we have enough food at parties for EVERYONE, preferably too much, not food just the kids. Several families from DD's class came, including those I didn't know that well. I was touched. Almost everyone brought nice, thoughtful presents. Those who didn't or couldn't, I didn't judge.

If you are not able to connect with people that you presume are different, it may be YOU.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is somewhat amusing. I particularly love the low income moms replies and agree with a lot of what she says (although we are not low income now, both DH and I grew up that way). I'm also curious as to how previous posters know what other people's SES is, or are people just assuming these families are low income? People assume all of the time that our family is low income, and quite frankly I believe it's because we are young minorities, and, outside of work, have a more "urban" way of dressing. In all other respects we're pretty DCUM average. What's funny is the moment I open my mouth, white/ high income individuals seem to be taken aback by the fact that I'm actually articulate. They're even more surprised when/if they ever make it to my house. Maybe people are not coming to your parties because of the deeper assumptions you are making about who they are; their level of income, language and other abilities.

I think you answered your own question. We are also a minority family (I'll say black or Latino), and I commented earlier in the thread that I'm sure people make assumptions about us too. My husband is typically dressed down at dropoff and pickup (hoodies, sweats, etc.) but is actually a physician with a pretty rarefied upbringing (elite boarding schools & universities). You wouldn't know at first glance, though.

But inquiring minds want to know: do you go to playdates and birthday parties at the white kids' houses? If not, why not?

I'm the second quoted PP above (black or Latino minority family with husband in hoodies). In our case, it's not really a question of race, but IB/OOB. We live in a neighborhood that is pretty exclusively middle/high SES, and we have playdates (at home, events, plays, etc.) or run into other families of all backgrounds at the playground fairly often. However, we have not yet had playdates with or been invited to many bday parties with OOB classmates, who in our case are both white and minority, and both low and middle/high SES. Makes me think next year that we should reach out more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly I have to agree with the pp. I'm an African American middle-class parent of a toddler. I'm comfortable in all settings. Yet I sometimes get the impression that some of the white families don't even try to strike up a conversation with me and my husband. My husband and I were just speaking about this the other day. Is there really such a cultural divide? I've traveled all over the world and think I have lots to say about many topics, but often find if I don't initiate the conversation it doesn't happen. Very interesting.

Tho is exactly what we experience sometimes. We are upper middle class, not wealthy. Our DC goes to a school with parents in the same bracket or higher, and it seems the men are the friendliest, not the wives.

Every time, we get an invitation, we reply and go if possible. Most of the time, I take our DC, not hubby b/c he works some Saturdays. Anyway, our DC brings a gift, and we stay the duration. Usually, we have a good time, but there are times when the white women just seem so aloof. It's strange to me b/c I'm warm, well-rounded and educated. I get along with the other parents, but again, it seems the men are just not racist or caught up in class. It's puzzling, really. My whole life I've been in diverse communities and schools. I have a BA and MA from two of the best schools in the country, and I'm down-to-earth, and so is my husband. We invite all of DC's friends to events and their parents, and most do come. Yet, I don't feel that we connect as much with the wealthier whites, and it has zero to do with not having anything in common.

I wonder if the OP is not aware of her own prejudices or perhaps preconceived notions. Maybe the other parents of lower SES feel it. Perhaps. I think people should just see humans as the same and not get do hung up on differences, no matter what they may be. Our events and lives will be more diverse and better in my humble opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly I have to agree with the pp. I'm an African American middle-class parent of a toddler. I'm comfortable in all settings. Yet I sometimes get the impression that some of the white families don't even try to strike up a conversation with me and my husband. My husband and I were just speaking about this the other day. Is there really such a cultural divide? I've traveled all over the world and think I have lots to say about many topics, but often find if I don't initiate the conversation it doesn't happen. Very interesting.

This is exactly what we experience sometimes. We are upper middle class, not wealthy. Our DC goes to a school with parents in the same bracket or higher, and it seems the men are the friendliest, not the wives.

Every time, we get an invitation, we reply and go if possible. Most of the time, I take our DC, not hubby b/c he works some Saturdays. Anyway, our DC brings a gift, and we stay the duration. Usually, we have a good time, but there are times when the white women just seem so aloof. It's strange to me b/c I'm warm, well-rounded and educated. I get along with the other parents, but again, it seems the men are just not racist or caught up in class. It's puzzling, really. My whole life I've been in diverse communities and schools. I have a BA and MA from two of the best schools in the country, and I'm down-to-earth, and so is my husband. We invite all of DC's friends to events and their parents, and most do come. Yet, I don't feel that we connect as much with the wealthier whites, and it has zero to do with not having anything in common.

I wonder if the OP is not aware of her own prejudices or perhaps preconceived notions. Maybe the other parents of lower SES feel it. Perhaps. I think people should just see humans as the same and not get do hung up on differences, no matter what they may be. Our events and lives will be more diverse and better in my humble opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly I have to agree with the pp. I'm an African American middle-class parent of a toddler. I'm comfortable in all settings. Yet I sometimes get the impression that some of the white families don't even try to strike up a conversation with me and my husband. My husband and I were just speaking about this the other day. Is there really such a cultural divide? I've traveled all over the world and think I have lots to say about many topics, but often find if I don't initiate the conversation it doesn't happen. Very interesting.

This is exactly what we experience sometimes. We are upper middle class, not wealthy. Our DC goes to a school with parents in the same bracket or higher, and it seems the men are the friendliest, not the wives.

Every time, we get an invitation, we reply and go if possible. Most of the time, I take our DC, not hubby b/c he works some Saturdays. Anyway, our DC brings a gift, and we stay the duration. Usually, we have a good time, but there are times when the white women just seem so aloof. It's strange to me b/c I'm warm, well-rounded and educated. I get along with the other parents, but again, it seems the men are just not racist or caught up in class. It's puzzling, really. My whole life I've been in diverse communities and schools. I have a BA and MA from two of the best schools in the country, and I'm down-to-earth, and so is my husband. We invite all of DC's friends to events and their parents, and most do come. Yet, I don't feel that we connect as much with the wealthier whites, and it has zero to do with not having anything in common.

I wonder if the OP is not aware of her own prejudices or perhaps preconceived notions. Maybe the other parents of lower SES feel it. Perhaps. I think people should just see humans as the same and not get do hung up on differences, no matter what they may be. Our events and lives will be more diverse and better in my humble opinion.

Sometimes it's really less about class or SES or skin color and more about simple things... like not knowing anyone.

I always try and make an effort at birthday parties to greet everyone and ask their names and try and make some conversation, but sometimes I'm on and sometimes I'm off. And I think it's okay to be either. I don't know what I did wrong last year, as an example, but we were invited to my child's bff at school's birthday party, and we were the only white people there. I have been in that situation a ton of times. It's really not an issue for me, and I tried. But I think I did something wrong, because for the rest of the year, my daughter and the other girl begged me to arrange playdates and the other mom completely blew me off. Was it a race thing? I kinda doubt it. Was it an SES thing? Again, I doubt it. I think it was one of the intangibles and I don't know what. It's still kind of a bummer, but... whatever. You can only try so much.

Just... not everything is about race or class. Nor are race or class as much of a big deal as so many here seem to make them.

[Anonymous]

Have you asked the mother if you offended her in some way? I would, esp since your daughters are so close.