What did you think having 3 kids and working full time would be like?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents of kids under 13 are so cute.

“The toddler years are hard, but everything gets easier and cheaper once they get into school.”

-signed, mom of high schoolers

It depends what your kids are into. And what their crowed is like.

My kids don't care about clothes etc. They're into online stuff.

I spend a lot of time enriching my 3 children. I would not be ok with my kids just doing online stuff.

I do know many parents who are totally fine letting their kids have screens all day.

I am not saying all working parents do this but I know a few parents who use screens like babysitters. If they are working from home, kids are allowed screens after school so parents can finish up work. I am sure lots of kids get screens after school. I was a latch key kid and watched tons of tv. I want my kids to have a different childhood than I did. My parents worked all the time and didn’t have much money. I have both time and money to enrich my children.

Well, I can see why you work hard so your kids don’t turn out like you did.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong or offensive about what she said. It might sting some parents who do that but she’s doing what’s best for her kids.

Came off as pretty judgmental to me. And frankly sounds like something she’s doing so she can brag about it. My kids would hate to be “enriched” constantly after school. They work hard during the school day and enjoy some down time and social time in the afternoons. Sometimes it does involve screens *gasp*!

There are tons of good reasons to be a SAHP but lots of “enrichment” is really not one of them.

Anecdotally, the few kids I know who are screen zombies all happen to have SAHPs. The SAHP is harried with younger siblings, housework, etc. so they use the screens to get a break. The kids of working parents are all in daycare/after school or have a nanny if they are rich. They get limited screens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents of kids under 13 are so cute.

“The toddler years are hard, but everything gets easier and cheaper once they get into school.”

-signed, mom of high schoolers

This type of response is so not cute.

Many families actually do have an easier time once the kids are older. Even in high school.

No they don’t. Bigger kids, bigger problems. Definitely not easier. There is this sweet spot like ages 6 to 9.

Excuse me, I didn't realize that you know definitively the experience for every family.

Look, I'm not saying that I don't think teenagers can be hard, or are even more likely to be harder in some ways than parenting young kids. But the know-it-all style of "oh how cute, if you think this is hard just wait" is patronizing and also not always accurate. Everyone finds challenges in different places; kids are different, too.

I have two kids and stopped at two because I didn't want to be overextended as household with two parents working out of the home, and I tried to quit while ahead, so to speak. But I know more than one family who had delightful teenage years following truly trying "childhood" years. So while I absolutely think people should realistically anticipate the needs of babies who grow into kids who grow into tweens who grow into teens who grow into young adults and so on, to assume that one stage is universally harder is simply blind to the multitude of lived experiences that would suggest otherwise.

Yikes, back down. Bigger kids DOES equal bigger problems. It’s not even a question. Not to say the teen years aren’t enjoyable in their own way, but seriously, it’s a new level of stress. And I had very demanding, young age children - including a special needs child, multiple deaths in my immediate family, career ups and downs and the like. I’m not trying to diminish your experience, but to remind you that there isn’t a get out of jail free card in your immediate future.

NP. You just sound like one of those people who always has to win the misery contest. First your little kids were unusually hard, but oh wait now your teens are even harder….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We didn’t think it through. We hired a nanny when our first was born and then had twins. We though we’d be able to transition to school at kindergarten for the twins and wouldn’t need nanny. Luckily with wised up before letting nanny go. She’s still with us and we honestly couldn’t function without her.

Interesting - two posters with surprise twins!
Congratulations to the both of you

NP. I'm another one with surprise twins. No fertility treatments, no twins in my family. I think you may be sarcastic though?

Not at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The empathy is strong with this one

Not OP but I think it's weird to have a lot of kids, then struggle with having a lot of kids, and then expect a lot of empathy for those struggles. It's not the 1800s -- no one is forcing you to have lots of children.

Our friends and family members with 3+ kids tend to complain about parenting a lot more and expect a lot more accommodations, and it was okay at first because obviously I can see that having more kids is harder than having fewer. But over time, you run out of empathy and willingness to accommodate. You get tired of always having to defer to the family with the most kids on venue, timing, and type of gathering because they have more schedules to juggle. And always having to listen to them explain how traveling, or meals, or school stuff, or sleeping arrangements is harder with more kids. Like yes, I see that, but also, I stopped caring at some point.

If you have 3+ kids and are managing fine, aside from the odd frustration, great! But my experience is that families like this are just an endless stream of scheduling nightmares and issues with the kids (the second one kid's food allergies gets solved, they've got another kid with a developmental issues, and every conversation revolves around this endless litany of parenting concerns).

One of my friends with 3 kids recently said to me "Wow it just seems like you've got it all figured out -- you never complain about this stuff!" And I didn't say it because I don't want to be rude, but that's not it. I have parenting struggles like everyone. But my stress level is overall lower and my capacity for resolving these struggles without needing to complain to everyone I know for months is higher, because I have fewer kids. It's more manageable. I'm not super mom and my kids aren't unusually easy. I just had fewer kids. It's my secret parenting hack, I guess.

[Anonymous]

Well I'll bite. We had three very intentional kids (IVF) and while I love it and think the chaos has enabled me to loosen up in some weird way, it basically broke my spouse and now we're divorcing. So I guess I regret having a third even though I can't imagine life without her. There's a lot of things I would have done differently, even after having 3 kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well I'll bite. We had three very intentional kids (IVF) and while I love it and think the chaos has enabled me to loosen up in some weird way, it basically broke my spouse and now we're divorcing. So I guess I regret having a third even though I can't imagine life without her. There's a lot of things I would have done differently, even after having 3 kids.

Could you expand on this a bit? What do you think you could have done differently?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well I'll bite. We had three very intentional kids (IVF) and while I love it and think the chaos has enabled me to loosen up in some weird way, it basically broke my spouse and now we're divorcing. So I guess I regret having a third even though I can't imagine life without her. There's a lot of things I would have done differently, even after having 3 kids.

What happened to your spouse?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents of kids under 13 are so cute.

“The toddler years are hard, but everything gets easier and cheaper once they get into school.”

-signed, mom of high schoolers

It depends what your kids are into. And what their crowed is like.

My kids don't care about clothes etc. They're into online stuff.

I spend a lot of time enriching my 3 children. I would not be ok with my kids just doing online stuff.

I do know many parents who are totally fine letting their kids have screens all day.

I am not saying all working parents do this but I know a few parents who use screens like babysitters. If they are working from home, kids are allowed screens after school so parents can finish up work. I am sure lots of kids get screens after school. I was a latch key kid and watched tons of tv. I want my kids to have a different childhood than I did. My parents worked all the time and didn’t have much money. I have both time and money to enrich my children.

Well, I can see why you work hard so your kids don’t turn out like you did.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong or offensive about what she said. It might sting some parents who do that but she’s doing what’s best for her kids.

Came off as pretty judgmental to me. And frankly sounds like something she’s doing so she can brag about it. My kids would hate to be “enriched” constantly after school. They work hard during the school day and enjoy some down time and social time in the afternoons. Sometimes it does involve screens *gasp*!

There are tons of good reasons to be a SAHP but lots of “enrichment” is really not one of them.

I didn’t mean to sound judgmental. I just limit my kids’ screen time. My oldest is in middle school. There are kids who quit all their sports and seem to just be on screens after school. They no longer need childcare. This would not be ok for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents of kids under 13 are so cute.

“The toddler years are hard, but everything gets easier and cheaper once they get into school.”

-signed, mom of high schoolers

This type of response is so not cute.

Many families actually do have an easier time once the kids are older. Even in high school.

No they don’t. Bigger kids, bigger problems. Definitely not easier. There is this sweet spot like ages 6 to 9.

Excuse me, I didn't realize that you know definitively the experience for every family.

Look, I'm not saying that I don't think teenagers can be hard, or are even more likely to be harder in some ways than parenting young kids. But the know-it-all style of "oh how cute, if you think this is hard just wait" is patronizing and also not always accurate. Everyone finds challenges in different places; kids are different, too.

I have two kids and stopped at two because I didn't want to be overextended as household with two parents working out of the home, and I tried to quit while ahead, so to speak. But I know more than one family who had delightful teenage years following truly trying "childhood" years. So while I absolutely think people should realistically anticipate the needs of babies who grow into kids who grow into tweens who grow into teens who grow into young adults and so on, to assume that one stage is universally harder is simply blind to the multitude of lived experiences that would suggest otherwise.

Yikes, back down. Bigger kids DOES equal bigger problems. It’s not even a question. Not to say the teen years aren’t enjoyable in their own way, but seriously, it’s a new level of stress. And I had very demanding, young age children - including a special needs child, multiple deaths in my immediate family, career ups and downs and the like. I’m not trying to diminish your experience, but to remind you that there isn’t a get out of jail free card in your immediate future.

NP. You just sound like one of those people who always has to win the misery contest. First your little kids were unusually hard, but oh wait now your teens are even harder….

It’s not a misery contest, though for THAT to be your take away shows that you are not a compassionate or empathetic person. The point here is that it does not, in fact, get “easier.” The problems just change. The highs change too, but that’s not what we are talking about. I’ve found that the stressors of high school/college age is significantly more stressful than, say, potty training. Maybe I more generous person would equate the challenges of potty training with the stress of the college application process. But really, who would they be kidding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The empathy is strong with this one

Not OP but I think it's weird to have a lot of kids, then struggle with having a lot of kids, and then expect a lot of empathy for those struggles. It's not the 1800s -- no one is forcing you to have lots of children.

Our friends and family members with 3+ kids tend to complain about parenting a lot more and expect a lot more accommodations, and it was okay at first because obviously I can see that having more kids is harder than having fewer. But over time, you run out of empathy and willingness to accommodate. You get tired of always having to defer to the family with the most kids on venue, timing, and type of gathering because they have more schedules to juggle. And always having to listen to them explain how traveling, or meals, or school stuff, or sleeping arrangements is harder with more kids. Like yes, I see that, but also, I stopped caring at some point.

If you have 3+ kids and are managing fine, aside from the odd frustration, great! But my experience is that families like this are just an endless stream of scheduling nightmares and issues with the kids (the second one kid's food allergies gets solved, they've got another kid with a developmental issues, and every conversation revolves around this endless litany of parenting concerns).

One of my friends with 3 kids recently said to me "Wow it just seems like you've got it all figured out -- you never complain about this stuff!" And I didn't say it because I don't want to be rude, but that's not it. I have parenting struggles like everyone. But my stress level is overall lower and my capacity for resolving these struggles without needing to complain to everyone I know for months is higher, because I have fewer kids. It's more manageable. I'm not super mom and my kids aren't unusually easy. I just had fewer kids. It's my secret parenting hack, I guess.

DP, but your friends with 3+ sound like they haven't figured out that you can't parent 3+ the way you parent 1 or 2 kids. Or they're just very tightly wound, in general. You have to be more chill, or you'll lose your mind. I find some parents of 1 or 2 way too uptight to hang out with (not all, of course), because they parent in a much more intensive way than we do. We don't live in one of the pricier areas of the DMV, so that may be it. Our stress is lower because we actively choose for it to be lower: we don't overcommit with activities, we build in downtime, etc.

I think that parents should consider how they want to parent (including their resources) and factor that in when considering their family size. Solely taking the very long view, as I've long seen advised here, is incomplete.

Last but not least, when it comes to toddlers vs. teens, the best advice I've heard from parents with older kids is that it's all hard, so pace yourself. You can't burn out and then check out when you have teens, as many parents do. Even once kids are launched, they're still your kids and they still might need help, which I also think about (I have a sibling with many health problems, for example). Parenting is a marathon, not a sprint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow. Congrats. YTA.

I think everyone with little kids expects it to be hard. Expects it to be busy. I honestly don't think that working/SAHP makes a huge difference, depending on your temperament (and I work, FWIW), though long hours or a very stressful job would be harder for sure. I think this is all true whether you have one, two, three or even four kids. Okay, once you're really out of the mainstream with like 6 kids, that's a different story. But you're not talking about the Duggars, you're talking about people with three kids! Isn't the average something like 2.5?

There are plenty of people who love their children, love having a large family, and recognize that yes, the early years are going to have some very tough moments, and accept that trade-off and the risks that come with it. Because it's worth it for them.

And yet, they may have a season of life where it's stressing them out a bit more than they're comfortable with, and so they come here for commiseration/advice. No matter whether you work or not, or have one kid or four, with special needs or without, kids are HARD and there will be a time when it feels like too much. LIFE is like that, even if you DON'T have kids.

These aren't people coming and saying "well, I had three kids, and I work 110 hours a week, we live on food stamps, we beat the kids regularly because we can't handle the whining, we are really mad that they spilled juice on our pristine white upholstered furniture, the youngest needs glasses but we just tell him to squint, and we are considering a fourth, what do you think?" The kids are well cared for, the adults are generally okay, it's just hard sometimes. Life isn't always predictable. Maybe kids at ages 1, 5, and 7 were fine, but 2, 6 and 8 is stressing you out and by 3, 7, and 9 you'll be back in your groove. Does that one tough year mean it was crazy to have your youngest child, who you love and adore and has added so much richness to your life?

That's not your priority, great. But people are different and prioritize different things even if it's tough and sometimes they need a little advice. Get off your high horse. You might struggle, too, one day.

--mom of two

Whoa whoa whoa PP this was way to thoughtful and balance for these here parts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents of kids under 13 are so cute.

“The toddler years are hard, but everything gets easier and cheaper once they get into school.”

-signed, mom of high schoolers

This type of response is so not cute.

Many families actually do have an easier time once the kids are older. Even in high school.

No they don’t. Bigger kids, bigger problems. Definitely not easier. There is this sweet spot like ages 6 to 9.

Excuse me, I didn't realize that you know definitively the experience for every family.

Look, I'm not saying that I don't think teenagers can be hard, or are even more likely to be harder in some ways than parenting young kids. But the know-it-all style of "oh how cute, if you think this is hard just wait" is patronizing and also not always accurate. Everyone finds challenges in different places; kids are different, too.

I have two kids and stopped at two because I didn't want to be overextended as household with two parents working out of the home, and I tried to quit while ahead, so to speak. But I know more than one family who had delightful teenage years following truly trying "childhood" years. So while I absolutely think people should realistically anticipate the needs of babies who grow into kids who grow into tweens who grow into teens who grow into young adults and so on, to assume that one stage is universally harder is simply blind to the multitude of lived experiences that would suggest otherwise.

Yikes, back down. Bigger kids DOES equal bigger problems. It’s not even a question. Not to say the teen years aren’t enjoyable in their own way, but seriously, it’s a new level of stress. And I had very demanding, young age children - including a special needs child, multiple deaths in my immediate family, career ups and downs and the like. I’m not trying to diminish your experience, but to remind you that there isn’t a get out of jail free card in your immediate future.

NP. You just sound like one of those people who always has to win the misery contest. First your little kids were unusually hard, but oh wait now your teens are even harder….

It’s not a misery contest, though for THAT to be your take away shows that you are not a compassionate or empathetic person. The point here is that it does not, in fact, get “easier.” The problems just change. The highs change too, but that’s not what we are talking about. I’ve found that the stressors of high school/college age is significantly more stressful than, say, potty training. Maybe I more generous person would equate the challenges of potty training with the stress of the college application process. But really, who would they be kidding.

DP here. I have heard from multiple parents that kids you need the most during the teenage years. I have an eight year gap between my youngest and oldest. They are all needy in different ways. I could see how a teenager may need guidance, especially getting into college if that is important to your family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well I'll bite. We had three very intentional kids (IVF) and while I love it and think the chaos has enabled me to loosen up in some weird way, it basically broke my spouse and now we're divorcing. So I guess I regret having a third even though I can't imagine life without her. There's a lot of things I would have done differently, even after having 3 kids.

Could you expand on this a bit? What do you think you could have done differently?

I will take the blame for not heeding the warning signs from my spouse (anxiety, irritability) before I had our third. We were probably already stretched thin regarding the time we were able to devote to one another. I also think, ideally, we might have moved to a lower COL area so that I could stay home with the kids during daycare years, because we're dealing with a some financial strain, and doing so would have also enabled me to do more around the house so that the evenings could be a little less chaotic (which isn't to say I don't do a lot now, but it probably would have helped). Couples therapy before things took the turn they did would have also helped. Bottom line/advice to others is to make sure you are both completely on the same page and make sure your marriage is solid and everyone is in a good place mentally/psychologically before adding another human to your family. And I recognize how that should be a no-brainer.

To answer the other person, spouse had/is having a midlife crisis-style exit affair and wants out. It's a hard pill to swallow... witnessing the dismantling of my so-very-wanted family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We didn’t think it through. We hired a nanny when our first was born and then had twins. We though we’d be able to transition to school at kindergarten for the twins and wouldn’t need nanny. Luckily with wised up before letting nanny go. She’s still with us and we honestly couldn’t function without her.

Interesting - two posters with surprise twins!
Congratulations to the both of you

NP. I'm another one with surprise twins. No fertility treatments, no twins in my family. I think you may be sarcastic though?

Not at all.

Ok, my bad. One post seemed snarky about "surprise twins" and ours was a total surprise. Anecdotally, I have six girlfriend from high school, college, and law school (and I went to very small schools each time) who all had twins and only one of them was a known possibility (i.e. fertility treatments). The rest of us were floored.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The empathy is strong with this one

Not OP but I think it's weird to have a lot of kids, then struggle with having a lot of kids, and then expect a lot of empathy for those struggles. It's not the 1800s -- no one is forcing you to have lots of children.

Our friends and family members with 3+ kids tend to complain about parenting a lot more and expect a lot more accommodations, and it was okay at first because obviously I can see that having more kids is harder than having fewer. But over time, you run out of empathy and willingness to accommodate. You get tired of always having to defer to the family with the most kids on venue, timing, and type of gathering because they have more schedules to juggle. And always having to listen to them explain how traveling, or meals, or school stuff, or sleeping arrangements is harder with more kids. Like yes, I see that, but also, I stopped caring at some point.

If you have 3+ kids and are managing fine, aside from the odd frustration, great! But my experience is that families like this are just an endless stream of scheduling nightmares and issues with the kids (the second one kid's food allergies gets solved, they've got another kid with a developmental issues, and every conversation revolves around this endless litany of parenting concerns).

One of my friends with 3 kids recently said to me "Wow it just seems like you've got it all figured out -- you never complain about this stuff!" And I didn't say it because I don't want to be rude, but that's not it. I have parenting struggles like everyone. But my stress level is overall lower and my capacity for resolving these struggles without needing to complain to everyone I know for months is higher, because I have fewer kids. It's more manageable. I'm not super mom and my kids aren't unusually easy. I just had fewer kids. It's my secret parenting hack, I guess.

DP, but your friends with 3+ sound like they haven't figured out that you can't parent 3+ the way you parent 1 or 2 kids. Or they're just very tightly wound, in general. You have to be more chill, or you'll lose your mind. I find some parents of 1 or 2 way too uptight to hang out with (not all, of course), because they parent in a much more intensive way than we do. We don't live in one of the pricier areas of the DMV, so that may be it. Our stress is lower because we actively choose for it to be lower: we don't overcommit with activities, we build in downtime, etc.

I think that parents should consider how they want to parent (including their resources) and factor that in when considering their family size. Solely taking the very long view, as I've long seen advised here, is incomplete.

Last but not least, when it comes to toddlers vs. teens, the best advice I've heard from parents with older kids is that it's all hard, so pace yourself. You can't burn out and then check out when you have teens, as many parents do. Even once kids are launched, they're still your kids and they still might need help, which I also think about (I have a sibling with many health problems, for example). Parenting is a marathon, not a sprint.

Divorcing PP here and yes, this exactly. This is excellent advice.