Not sure if this is a money question or relationship question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here - first, we don’t take home 15K a month. The nature of his job means that he brings home a guaranteed $4k/month and I bring home a guaranteed $3845 per pp (so $8.3k/month). The rest is bonuses, which are not guaranteed (and because he isn’t working too hard at work, his bonuses are more iffy). Our mortgage is $4K. Also while we give $500 to his mother and bother, that will increase and we also pay for plane tickets and hotels for them to visit us 2-3x a year. Also again, we didn’t have these salaries most of our marriage. Historically we were probably right below $200k.

We have some fairly costly home maintenance project that we have to save for. We also need a new car.

The guys trips are long weeks, so plane ride, hotel, dinner and excursions. I think the last one was $1500.

I think a prior poster hit the nail on the head when she said one of my frustrations is that my H doesn’t see/understand our financial picture. He has Mint so he sees all our accounts, but he doesn’t get our in and out expenses. I have tried to show him everything and explain it but he just doesn’t get it. He literally told me if he won $1M he could retire tomorrow.

I also think his focus on the boys weekends just makes part of me sad. The last time it came up, we were talking about him and I going away for a long weekend and things weren’t great at his job so we didn’t go. But a month later he wanted to fly to Portland for a guys weekend.

But again, it’s this sudden idea that he get his $45k back that frustrates me. He is obsessed with what money is his in the marriage and what is mine, even though his retirements accounts are higher than mine because he started maxing before me. And he doesn’t count all my parents gifts to us in his calculations.

So he makes $4k per month (before taxes?) and sends $500/month to his mother/brother plus you'll be buying them additional plane trips and covering other expenses? I actually don't think he can afford a guy's trip. He's hardly pulling his weight in your marriage. He needs to get a better job. The mental gymnastics he's doing to justify it doesn't work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don’t travel together “yet”?! You have been married for 20 years and this man is trying to figure out ow to reclaim his inheritance as something other than commingled. There is only one reason yo be doing that.

If I am truly the person breaking this to you I am really sorry, but OP: you are not going to be traveling with this person. You are probably getting divorced.

Agreed

+3. The kids are out of house and he’s preparing for a divorce.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here - first, we don’t take home 15K a month. The nature of his job means that he brings home a guaranteed $4k/month and I bring home a guaranteed $3845 per pp (so $8.3k/month). The rest is bonuses, which are not guaranteed (and because he isn’t working too hard at work, his bonuses are more iffy). Our mortgage is $4K. Also while we give $500 to his mother and bother, that will increase and we also pay for plane tickets and hotels for them to visit us 2-3x a year. Also again, we didn’t have these salaries most of our marriage. Historically we were probably right below $200k.

We have some fairly costly home maintenance project that we have to save for. We also need a new car.

The guys trips are long weeks, so plane ride, hotel, dinner and excursions. I think the last one was $1500.

I think a prior poster hit the nail on the head when she said one of my frustrations is that my H doesn’t see/understand our financial picture. He has Mint so he sees all our accounts, but he doesn’t get our in and out expenses. I have tried to show him everything and explain it but he just doesn’t get it. He literally told me if he won $1M he could retire tomorrow.

I also think his focus on the boys weekends just makes part of me sad. The last time it came up, we were talking about him and I going away for a long weekend and things weren’t great at his job so we didn’t go. But a month later he wanted to fly to Portland for a guys weekend.

But again, it’s this sudden idea that he get his $45k back that frustrates me. He is obsessed with what money is his in the marriage and what is mine, even though his retirements accounts are higher than mine because he started maxing before me. And he doesn’t count all my parents gifts to us in his calculations.

OP, you're falling into a parent role and it's not doing either of you any good. Reframe to be a team that works together with reality providing the constraints rather than you as the gatekeeper. Use his desire to go on a trip with the guys as a motivator to see where the money will come from. Price out the home maintenance project and the planned new car and actually do the math together. Put in things you want individually too-- independent of the shared family goals/trips together -- so it doesn't feel like you're the drudge and he gets all the fun. If there's not much you individually want, maybe look into that? If the 45k thing is important to him, maybe you really can set that aside and let the funds that pay his family's expenses --monthly payments plus flights etc. come from that rather than your household budget along with his trips. I think you just need to be honest--do you want to give up working hard? Or do you just want to exert more control over the funds because you're working hard. The former is okay, the latter is not consistent with a marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - the inheritance is from his dad and yes, we take domestic vacations but I hope to do domestics/international travel alone (with him, sans kids) now that the kids are in college. But we are also paying for college expenses, which which are over in 2 years or less based on 529s.

He commingled the inheritance. Part went to house upgrades he wanted and part went to an emergency fund in a joint account when he left his more lucrative job.

Our income is $300k now but as noted mine went up rapidly in the last 6 years while his decreased.

so, part of his inheritance is still in cash, as the emergency fund that was established specifically because he wanted to downgrade his job, and part went to a house modification that he wanted and it sounds like you would not have wanted/gone forward with on your own. so in effect, he already spent his inheritance on himself, it just happened to be legally commingled.

in addition, you collectively spend about $6000/year on his relatives, while your relatives give you an acerage of around $4000/year over the last 20 years.

he can't undo the commingling, and he used the funds to further his own ends. further, the legal distinction of sole and separate property is completely meaningless unless he is laying the groundwork for divorce.

now, it feels like your marriage is in crisis, so it might be worthwhile to just use the emergency funds for one of these boys trips. given his creative math, understand it might be more like $5000 for one of these trips. and then you should take a trip just the two of you before the kids are out of college. and then you need counseling. because neither of you are communicating well, and you both seem to be harboring resentments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - sorry to be clear it’s about $1500 for college and $500 to his family per month.

Yes my parents gifts were also commingled and used for the entire family.

My husband is a good person. but I get the impression he isn’t seeing this clearly, nor does he see the totality of 20 years of combined assets. I agree he should earn more if he wants these trips and have told him as much. I just think he doesn’t want to admit his inability to do these trip on our current combined income is a result of his decreased income. He gets very upset when I go anywhere near that topic.

But at the same time I am busting my ass year after year to get my income up.

Ugh the way he phrased this would make my blood boil. But could we reframe this as: After both of you working hard as a team for a long time, he really just wants some money that he can spend for himself and not for family projects? Not asking you to pay him back - wtffff - but just proposing that some amount be set aside for him to be irresponsible with?

But before saying yes to that - do you have any amount like that for yourself to mess around with??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don’t travel together “yet”?! You have been married for 20 years and this man is trying to figure out ow to reclaim his inheritance as something other than commingled. There is only one reason yo be doing that.

If I am truly the person breaking this to you I am really sorry, but OP: you are not going to be traveling with this person. You are probably getting divorced.

This is accurate, unfortunately. OP, please shake yourself out of this desperation to see your husband as a good guy. He's clearly not. He spent his inheritance on stuff he wanted, doesn't prioritize vacations with you or things that you want, and uses you to support his lifestyle and his family. Now he's trying to milk you for even more money.

Like the pp said, there's only ONE reason to suddenly want you to "pay back" $45K just to him. The same $45K that he already spent on things he wanted. And after he's been spending your/your family's financial contributions on himself and his family. Don't do this. He's been gaslighting you for years with excuses for why you both can't have the things that you want, but you can pay for the things that he wants.

Stop being a doormat. Prioritize what you want and just start spending it on yourself. Take vacations with your friends. He'll likely go through the roof if you start treating yourself as well as you've both been treating him.

95% chance you're headed for a very ugly divorce where you'll be blindsided with all sorts of stuff that you've been willfully ignoring. I meant this gently, but please get your head out of your ass and put yourself and any kids first. He'll never do it so you have to. Whatever you do, don't agree to give him $45K of your own money.

[Anonymous]

This seems way more complicated than it needs to be.

$1500 is fairly moderate for a week long trip. Clearly your husband really wants to go. Let him go! You guys have the money for him to go even with all the budgetary needs. Fun needs to be a part of the budget too! Life is lived now and honestly you aren’t guaranteed anything in the future.

It also sounds like you really want to go on a couples trip and this is a sore point/hurting your feelings that your DH seems more committed to boys trip than trip with you. This is a separate issue. Bring this up with him and plan out your couples trip at same time that he plans out his boys trip.

I also get the feeling that you are somewhat of a “no” person with him. I don’t mean to be harsh. I get that you have been working your tail off and have this firm grip on your financials that he seems to lack, but it also seems like you guys need to loosen up and start having more fun NOW.

I second going to therapy to work a lot of this out. It just feels overly complicated and depressing. Even with all the budgetary constraints you are both in a comfortable financial situation! I don’t get why your situation therefore reads like you are barely getting by.

Your narrative feels flooded with scarcity and I suspect it really doesn’t need to be that way. Does this have something to do with your upbringing and parents being very conservative with financials? I’m just throwing something at the wall here but I get the feelings there’s stuff to unpack here. Your husband needs fun now and you need to feel secure and loved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This seems way more complicated than it needs to be.

$1500 is fairly moderate for a week long trip. Clearly your husband really wants to go. Let him go! You guys have the money for him to go even with all the budgetary needs. Fun needs to be a part of the budget too! Life is lived now and honestly you aren’t guaranteed anything in the future.

It also sounds like you really want to go on a couples trip and this is a sore point/hurting your feelings that your DH seems more committed to boys trip than trip with you. This is a separate issue. Bring this up with him and plan out your couples trip at same time that he plans out his boys trip.

I also get the feeling that you are somewhat of a “no” person with him. I don’t mean to be harsh. I get that you have been working your tail off and have this firm grip on your financials that he seems to lack, but it also seems like you guys need to loosen up and start having more fun NOW.

I second going to therapy to work a lot of this out. It just feels overly complicated and depressing. Even with all the budgetary constraints you are both in a comfortable financial situation! I don’t get why your situation therefore reads like you are barely getting by.

Your narrative feels flooded with scarcity and I suspect it really doesn’t need to be that way. Does this have something to do with your upbringing and parents being very conservative with financials? I’m just throwing something at the wall here but I get the feelings there’s stuff to unpack here. Your husband needs fun now and you need to feel secure and loved.

Good lord, don't help OP's husband gaslight her. The way he's treating her and his demands are inexcusable any way you look at it.

[Anonymous]

I think that we have a similar situation, OP. I am much more conservative with retirement saving than my husband is. I think we need a certain amount to live a great life and he is ok with less money and just making do with what he has. Think: $8M vs $2M. Neither of us are really right or wrong but we come up against prioritizing issues like this where we just need to make a call. If you want to save your marriage then spend some money on this trip and also a financial counselor who can help you work on this stuff. I would say you should do the Dave Ramsey program but it’s not for everyone (I just ignore the religious stuff).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think that we have a similar situation, OP. I am much more conservative with retirement saving than my husband is. I think we need a certain amount to live a great life and he is ok with less money and just making do with what he has. Think: $8M vs $2M. Neither of us are really right or wrong but we come up against prioritizing issues like this where we just need to make a call. If you want to save your marriage then spend some money on this trip and also a financial counselor who can help you work on this stuff. I would say you should do the Dave Ramsey program but it’s not for everyone (I just ignore the religious stuff).

No, this isn't about how conservative you are with retirement. OP's husband wants to spend on himself and his family, using OP and her family's money. OP's husband doesn't want to spend on the things that OP wants. Plus he wants OP to "pay him back" the $45K that he already spent so he can also have that money just for himself.

[Anonymous]

Definitely don't pay him the $45,000 for him to sequester. He may be trying this as a way of saying his inheritance was not commingled and so is not part of marital assets for divorce purposes. I don't think un-commingling would be accepted by a court, but should there be a divorce it would be one more headache to deal with.

If he just wants to go on a guy trip that is no more than a couple of thousands I'd say okay.

DH and I have always kept our finances separate, and it works for us, but you should think about doing what I hear those who keep them joint some times say here: each spouse gets X dollars a month to do whatever they wish with no joint discussion. That way he could save up for these trips with no questions asked by him.

[Anonymous]

Reread that last post you made OP. He doesn't want to travel with you. Is he having an affair?

[Anonymous]

Agree with PPs that this is a divorce-planning exercise.

[Anonymous]

OP -

To answer three questions:

1. His income is $4K/month after taxes.
2. This isn’t one trip. It’s 1-2 per year. Also I had a typo earlier, the trips are long weekends. The last one that he did not got to because of work was in February.
3. This isn’t divorce planning. His dad left his mom after an affair and it ruined his childhood and left them in near poverty. He lives in fear of divorce.

I’ve also explained to him that even if we took the remainder of the $45k from our joint accounts, they are still commingled assets. Just like I explain that our retirement accounts are marital property since both were created only immediately before we were married.

As also mentioned, he is in my parents will. He will get $200k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s probably both.

In the beginning of my marriage, H made more than me. This was made possible by three things: my job benefits, my job flexibility and my parent’s gifts (probably $80k over 20 years plus housing during school). He has also admittedly taken a back seat in his career and his salary has decreased, while mine went way up (80% increase in 6 years). Note: this sounds like a lot but our HHI is $300k, which is great but not insanely high.

I stand to inherit millions, even under the worst case scenario - my parents are rigid and conservative with their money - and my mom is in very good health. Best case I expect to inherit the money in my late 60s at the earliest. We save like that won’t happen to be safe, which he thinks is overkill. But also under the worst case scenario, we will financially support his mother and likely brother (and already pay for certain expenses).

He told me he wants to reallocate his inheritance (already commingled to pay for certain house upgrades he wanted and to bulk up our emergency fund for his job) to a fund for himself so he can go travel with his friends. Please note that we do not travel together yet, because we are just getting to the point where that is really possible. We do family vacations, and I hope with decreased expenses and my increased income, we can travel in the next 1-2 years.

So basically with my next promotion, he wants me to start paying him back for his inheritance. All $45k. He said that although I intend to use any inheritance to our future benefit, the accounts are in my name until the funds are allocated for a mutual benefit, he sees no benefit. (Side note: my parents are also allocating $200k directly to my husband).

I am frustrated. I don’t think he sees the full financial picture. I am aggravated that after decreasing his salary by 40% and admittedly taking an easier path, I have to pay him back. I am also frustrated that he fails to see everything my family has already given or how much his mom/brother cost us. If I try to discuss these things he shuts down.

So keeping this on the money side, is he right? Should I pay back that $45k to an account in his name?

How are things otherwise in the marriage? Any possibility he is getting his financial ducks in a row to initiate a divorce?