Not sure if this is a money question or relationship question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - I promise there is nothing nefarious about the trip with friends. It’s that they do $$$ boys trips and he hasn’t been able to go in the last several years because we are focused on other family expenses. I told him he needs to wait till the budget loosens up (college expenses are done or he puts effort into upping his salary).

I am admittedly also resentful that he is more focused on these boys trips than getting to his place where we am travel without kids.

I don’t understand why you can’t travel without kids now

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP - I promise there is nothing nefarious about the trip with friends. It’s that they do $$$ boys trips and he hasn’t been able to go in the last several years because we are focused on other family expenses. I told him he needs to wait till the budget loosens up (college expenses are done or he puts effort into upping his salary).

I am admittedly also resentful that he is more focused on these boys trips than getting to his place where we am travel without kids.

How old are your kids? Why do you want to travel without them? Mine are 24 and 22 and we still travel together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP -

To answer three questions:

1. His income is $4K/month after taxes.
2. This isn’t one trip. It’s 1-2 per year. Also I had a typo earlier, the trips are long weekends. The last one that he did not got to because of work was in February.
3. This isn’t divorce planning. His dad left his mom after an affair and it ruined his childhood and left them in near poverty. He lives in fear of divorce.

I’ve also explained to him that even if we took the remainder of the $45k from our joint accounts, they are still commingled assets. Just like I explain that our retirement accounts are marital property since both were created only immediately before we were married.

As also mentioned, he is in my parents will. He will get $200k.

Ugh OP. This is looking more and more like him getting his ducks in a row for divorce. His dad having an affair and leaving his mom in poverty makes him MORE likely to do it, not less.

Why on earth is he in your parents will??? It sounds like you and your parents have been complete doormats and he's been using you to financially support his desires and his family while he gives less and less and takes more and more.

WAKE UP!!! There's no non-nefarious reason for him to want you to give him $45K for his own personal use. There's no justification for it since he already spent it, but there also wouldn't be if he didn't spend it since he uses your money. The best case scenario is that he's continuing to use you to finance whatever he wants and treating you much worse than he demands that you treat him.

Who the $%^& is this raging narcissist to have both you and your parents believe that he should be revered and your role is to treat him above you while you pay for it? OP, you truly need therapy to learn to value yourself. Do this for your child if not for yourself. Don't raise them the way your parents raised you.

[Anonymous]

This is such a bizarre scenario and yes definitely a relationship issue, not money. It doesn’t sound like you two are on the same page as it relates to goals and future planning, at all.

I think you need counseling, stat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP -

To answer three questions:

1. His income is $4K/month after taxes.
2. This isn’t one trip. It’s 1-2 per year. Also I had a typo earlier, the trips are long weekends. The last one that he did not got to because of work was in February.
3. This isn’t divorce planning. His dad left his mom after an affair and it ruined his childhood and left them in near poverty. He lives in fear of divorce.

I’ve also explained to him that even if we took the remainder of the $45k from our joint accounts, they are still commingled assets. Just like I explain that our retirement accounts are marital property since both were created only immediately before we were married.

As also mentioned, he is in my parents will. He will get $200k.

Ugh OP. This is looking more and more like him getting his ducks in a row for divorce. His dad having an affair and leaving his mom in poverty makes him MORE likely to do it, not less.

Why on earth is he in your parents will??? It sounds like you and your parents have been complete doormats and he's been using you to financially support his desires and his family while he gives less and less and takes more and more.

WAKE UP!!! There's no non-nefarious reason for him to want you to give him $45K for his own personal use. There's no justification for it since he already spent it, but there also wouldn't be if he didn't spend it since he uses your money. The best case scenario is that he's continuing to use you to finance whatever he wants and treating you much worse than he demands that you treat him.

Who the $%^& is this raging narcissist to have both you and your parents believe that he should be revered and your role is to treat him above you while you pay for it? OP, you truly need therapy to learn to value yourself. Do this for your child if not for yourself. Don't raise them the way your parents raised you.

Because he has done a lot for them. My dad is very ill and he has gone over, by himself, a couple hours a week to help care for him for the last few years. So regardless of anything else my parents want to recognize that.

[Anonymous]

"Repaying" the $45K inheritance makes zero sense for all the reasons previously stated. I would feel similarly annoyed especially since your parents have your DH in their will, though as you said wills can change and are a long way from being used. Also, it sounds like your parents are in a better place than his parents, that isn't DH's fault but does make it annoying that DH seems to be the spender.

You've said your DH refuses to discuss the financials. Maybe frame it as a conversation about priorities, you want to figure out together how he can have his boys trips and you can have things you want and you can achieve your joint savings and travel goals. Its about figuring out together how to get everyone what they need (and in your case a lot of what you each want). In my own relationship, similar conversations have come up when my DH looks at our combined total incomes and feels like there should be some room for to loosen up a little. I can share what has helped us:
1) Look at AFTER tax income WITHOUT bonuses, which it sounds like you already are. The numbers are significantly lower which is a good does of reality. This is what you can count on. This needs to cover your needs and highest priorities.
2) Create an annual budget so that you capture irregular expenses like car insurance and travel. I don't think it matters much if you then divide that across 12 months or just look at the annual amounts. How much is left over? Can some line items be reduced? Since your DH tends to run from these conversations, I'd stick with broad categories. For example, "auto" which includes monthly payments, insurance, repairs, and gas. Some people fine it helpful to divide all expenses by "mandatory" and "discretionary." Mandatory being things like mortgage, utilities, food. Others like "fixed" and "variable." Variable being expense you need to survive but which fluctuate (like food and utilities).
3) Include in your budget the amounts you need for savings goals like a car and home renovation. Be willing to discuss the timeline and how to prioritize those savings within your budget relative to boys trips AND trips for the two of you.

When DH or I get a bonus we then discuss what to do with it. We don't plan our monthly spending and savings for things like cars and home repairs based on assumed bonus amounts. Maybe you and your DH will decide to use this year's bonuses for next year's trips and renovations.

While I disagree with basically everything your DH is saying about money I do have a hard time reconciling a $300K income with not having $1.5K of wiggle room. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that when those are the only two numbers DH is thinking about. If he really refuses to discuss any financial priorities with you, then maybe just put the ball in his court and ask him what he thinks you both should cut so he can go on his trip. You should NOT repay the $45K, but even if you did that money would come from somewhere.

Last thought. If you are really ok on retirement (you're right to not count on your parents will), but be willing to let him reduce his contributions to his retirement for a $1.5K trip. Though a trip is one of the worst reasons to reduce retirement accounts if you guys are on track for retirement then a small reduction is fine.

[Anonymous]

Eww. There is no way I would stay married to this guy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here - first, we don’t take home 15K a month. The nature of his job means that he brings home a guaranteed $4k/month and I bring home a guaranteed $3845 per pp (so $8.3k/month). The rest is bonuses, which are not guaranteed (and because he isn’t working too hard at work, his bonuses are more iffy). Our mortgage is $4K. Also while we give $500 to his mother and bother, that will increase and we also pay for plane tickets and hotels for them to visit us 2-3x a year. Also again, we didn’t have these salaries most of our marriage. Historically we were probably right below $200k.

We have some fairly costly home maintenance project that we have to save for. We also need a new car.

The guys trips are long weeks, so plane ride, hotel, dinner and excursions. I think the last one was $1500.

I think a prior poster hit the nail on the head when she said one of my frustrations is that my H doesn’t see/understand our financial picture. He has Mint so he sees all our accounts, but he doesn’t get our in and out expenses. I have tried to show him everything and explain it but he just doesn’t get it. He literally told me if he won $1M he could retire tomorrow.

I also think his focus on the boys weekends just makes part of me sad. The last time it came up, we were talking about him and I going away for a long weekend and things weren’t great at his job so we didn’t go. But a month later he wanted to fly to Portland for a guys weekend.

But again, it’s this sudden idea that he get his $45k back that frustrates me. He is obsessed with what money is his in the marriage and what is mine, even though his retirements accounts are higher than mine because he started maxing before me. And he doesn’t count all my parents gifts to us in his calculations.

This is the easiest place to start.

Add up the advance you e gotten on your inheritance which is the gifts from your parents. Then do the math on his inheritance and you can pay each other back.

But seriously. The problem is bigger here. Your husband doesn’t see you as a team, rather as a roommate/adversary. He is a unit with his parents and he wants free time with friends. He views you as the are the obstacle to him living his best life.

Tell your parents to stop gifts to your husband completely. It’s very likely you guys are headed towards divorce. Honestly, I think the only reason you haven’t divorced yet is because your husband feels financially insecure.

That’s … not good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:sorry, this is definitely a relationship question. while inheritances are not marital property, neither are gifts made explicitly to an individual spouse.

you commingled the gifts from your parents, and he commingled his inheritance, but he appears to be wanting to walk back just the latter, by having you "give" him money to an account in his name only. BUT! Gifts given to you by your spouse (and vise-versa) during the course of your marriage are marital property and are subject to equitable distribution anyway.

Personally, I'd have a strong suspicion that the friends he wants to travel with fall into the "with benefits" category. No, he is not right, and you should not "pay him back."

This. I'd consider a private detective. I would see the red flags and stop co-mingling. I'd consider divorce, OP, he seems to treat you and your family like an ATM and his family have hands out too. Do you have kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP -

To answer three questions:

1. His income is $4K/month after taxes.
2. This isn’t one trip. It’s 1-2 per year. Also I had a typo earlier, the trips are long weekends. The last one that he did not got to because of work was in February.
3. This isn’t divorce planning. His dad left his mom after an affair and it ruined his childhood and left them in near poverty. He lives in fear of divorce.

I’ve also explained to him that even if we took the remainder of the $45k from our joint accounts, they are still commingled assets. Just like I explain that our retirement accounts are marital property since both were created only immediately before we were married.

As also mentioned, he is in my parents will. He will get $200k.

Ugh OP. This is looking more and more like him getting his ducks in a row for divorce. His dad having an affair and leaving his mom in poverty makes him MORE likely to do it, not less.

Why on earth is he in your parents will??? It sounds like you and your parents have been complete doormats and he's been using you to financially support his desires and his family while he gives less and less and takes more and more.

WAKE UP!!! There's no non-nefarious reason for him to want you to give him $45K for his own personal use. There's no justification for it since he already spent it, but there also wouldn't be if he didn't spend it since he uses your money. The best case scenario is that he's continuing to use you to finance whatever he wants and treating you much worse than he demands that you treat him.

Who the $%^& is this raging narcissist to have both you and your parents believe that he should be revered and your role is to treat him above you while you pay for it? OP, you truly need therapy to learn to value yourself. Do this for your child if not for yourself. Don't raise them the way your parents raised you.

Because he has done a lot for them. My dad is very ill and he has gone over, by himself, a couple hours a week to help care for him for the last few years. So regardless of anything else my parents want to recognize that.

He is doing it for the $, OP, surely you and your parents can grasp that at this point? With his behavior and family history, I'd get an aggressive lawyer and get ready to file. That is when assets can be reallocated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - first, we don’t take home 15K a month. The nature of his job means that he brings home a guaranteed $4k/month and I bring home a guaranteed $3845 per pp (so $8.3k/month). The rest is bonuses, which are not guaranteed (and because he isn’t working too hard at work, his bonuses are more iffy). Our mortgage is $4K. Also while we give $500 to his mother and bother, that will increase and we also pay for plane tickets and hotels for them to visit us 2-3x a year. Also again, we didn’t have these salaries most of our marriage. Historically we were probably right below $200k.

We have some fairly costly home maintenance project that we have to save for. We also need a new car.

The guys trips are long weeks, so plane ride, hotel, dinner and excursions. I think the last one was $1500.

I think a prior poster hit the nail on the head when she said one of my frustrations is that my H doesn’t see/understand our financial picture. He has Mint so he sees all our accounts, but he doesn’t get our in and out expenses. I have tried to show him everything and explain it but he just doesn’t get it. He literally told me if he won $1M he could retire tomorrow.

I also think his focus on the boys weekends just makes part of me sad. The last time it came up, we were talking about him and I going away for a long weekend and things weren’t great at his job so we didn’t go. But a month later he wanted to fly to Portland for a guys weekend.

But again, it’s this sudden idea that he get his $45k back that frustrates me. He is obsessed with what money is his in the marriage and what is mine, even though his retirements accounts are higher than mine because he started maxing before me. And he doesn’t count all my parents gifts to us in his calculations.

This is the easiest place to start.

Add up the advance you e gotten on your inheritance which is the gifts from your parents. Then do the math on his inheritance and you can pay each other back.

But seriously. The problem is bigger here. Your husband doesn’t see you as a team, rather as a roommate/adversary. He is a unit with his parents and he wants free time with friends. He views you as the are the obstacle to him living his best life.

Tell your parents to stop gifts to your husband completely. It’s very likely you guys are headed towards divorce. Honestly, I think the only reason you haven’t divorced yet is because your husband feels financially insecure.

That’s … not good.

Not financially insecure, he's greedy, as is his family and they are waiting for OP's parents to kick and they can get their big payout. He's a user, OP. DTMFA and get a lawyer who is a shark. DH has gotten plenty of $ already, move on and have your parents cut him off too. He's going to leave with a lot of $ if you don't act first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - first, we don’t take home 15K a month. The nature of his job means that he brings home a guaranteed $4k/month and I bring home a guaranteed $3845 per pp (so $8.3k/month). The rest is bonuses, which are not guaranteed (and because he isn’t working too hard at work, his bonuses are more iffy). Our mortgage is $4K. Also while we give $500 to his mother and bother, that will increase and we also pay for plane tickets and hotels for them to visit us 2-3x a year. Also again, we didn’t have these salaries most of our marriage. Historically we were probably right below $200k.

We have some fairly costly home maintenance project that we have to save for. We also need a new car.

The guys trips are long weeks, so plane ride, hotel, dinner and excursions. I think the last one was $1500.

I think a prior poster hit the nail on the head when she said one of my frustrations is that my H doesn’t see/understand our financial picture. He has Mint so he sees all our accounts, but he doesn’t get our in and out expenses. I have tried to show him everything and explain it but he just doesn’t get it. He literally told me if he won $1M he could retire tomorrow.

I also think his focus on the boys weekends just makes part of me sad. The last time it came up, we were talking about him and I going away for a long weekend and things weren’t great at his job so we didn’t go. But a month later he wanted to fly to Portland for a guys weekend.

But again, it’s this sudden idea that he get his $45k back that frustrates me. He is obsessed with what money is his in the marriage and what is mine, even though his retirements accounts are higher than mine because he started maxing before me. And he doesn’t count all my parents gifts to us in his calculations.

So he makes $4k per month (before taxes?) and sends $500/month to his mother/brother plus you'll be buying them additional plane trips and covering other expenses? I actually don't think he can afford a guy's trip. He's hardly pulling his weight in your marriage. He needs to get a better job. The mental gymnastics he's doing to justify it doesn't work.

He's going to walk on the marriage. The boys trips probably involve strippers/hookers or are a cover for him hooking up with someone. He's just biding his time to try to bleed you and your family as much as possible before he bounces.

[Anonymous]

He only contributes 16% of your HHI ($48/300)? And he’s basically using your family money to supplement his family? In your position, I’d be very resentful, but that’s just me and you’re probably a better human, I’d be looking at separating assets and divorcing due to his strange behavior, and unreasonable requests. I’d also be concerned he was staying married to me for money.

[Anonymous]

this man is trying to figure out ow to reclaim his inheritance as something other than commingled. There is only one reason yo be doing that.

If I am truly the person breaking this to you I am really sorry, but OP: you are not going to be traveling with this person. You are probably getting divorced.

How is this not obvious to everyone? He's trying to suck up as much cash as he can before leaving.

OP, your relationship question is: who can recommend an excellent divorce lawyer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He only contributes 16% of your HHI ($48/300)? And he’s basically using your family money to supplement his family? In your position, I’d be very resentful, but that’s just me and you’re probably a better human, I’d be looking at separating assets and divorcing due to his strange behavior, and unreasonable requests. I’d also be concerned he was staying married to me for money.

He is waiting for your parents to die and for assets to be comingled so he can walk away with half. In the meantime, he wants to unwind his comingled inheritance.

It's so obvious. And sucking up to your dad was not love and care but investing time to get $200k.