I wish parents could be more supportive and less desperate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hear, hear, OP! I find it jarring when parents here write "we have applied to 20 colleges" or "we sent in a SAT score" or "we wrote the essay".

It should not be "we". It should be he or she (or they, if that's how you roll). The parent needs to divest a bit and let the applicant own their own decisions, write their own essays, etc. Back off and stop micromanaging to the point that you use "we". When you write that "we" did it, it shouts: "I don't trust my kid to do the process correctly". Well, why is your child applying to college, then?

Parents are paying shit ton of money.
It's a family decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You seem very sure that you're doing it much better than everyone else, OP.

I don't know anyone in my circle how does what you claim we all do.

Perhaps you could stretch to understand that we are all complex creatures who can be rational and tolerant most of the time, but who occasionally need to vent our disappointments and resentments on an anonymous online forum. This is why this forum gets heated.

But you know better, of course.

Well, it rubs off on the kids. The Applying to College subreddit forum is filled with tons of disappointed and angry rants by kids who received rejections this week. They think that the only thing that matters is a T20 acceptance to make their parents proud and make all of their sleepless nights and stressful HS ECs worthwhile. Even kids who end up getting into T30s don't think it's good enough or get disappointed feedback from their parents. Sure, everyone is entitled to expressing their emotions, but in general, the mindset that OP describes is healthier for everyone, especially for the kids. My kids applied to a reasonable spread of schools and were enamored enough with their "safeties" and targets to make the process go pretty smoothly.

My kid had a balanced list because we required it and are aware that the T30-50 can be a crapshoot. It's the healthy way to do it. They had true safeties and 2 of those they actually wanted to attend (the other was a nearby school as College counselor required they apply to safety within a 6 hour drive just in case they change their mind about being 2-3K miles from home).
When kid got deferred from ED1, we gave them 1 day to get over it and start getting excited about the two EA acceptances they had, both with great merit (one was a T50 school other was the real safety). In March when they got rejected from the ED1 school, we once again gave them 1-2 days to snap out of it and start analyzing the top 3 choices and planning how to visit over spring break and weigh the pros/cons of each. It's not healthy to dwell on rejections. We had also prepped them for fact that with single digit acceptance rates, their chances of their ED1 was minimal and it is not a reflection of their self-worth---most are gonna get rejected. Same with their T30 that WL them. Help them focus on the choices that are available to them, and thru the whole process we made sure they knew that the process is a crap shoot, so you do the best you can but getting rejected multiple times does not take anything away from your self worth.

[Anonymous]

Like everything else, with the passage of time parents realize they made mistakes. I was obsessed with the test scores at my kids’ public elementary school and my school obsession continued all the way through college admissions. Now that it’s all behind me, it’s very obvious that how I acted was unhealthy and unnecessary - and that I risked serious damage to my relationship with my kids for no reason whatsoever. Fortunately, my kids are the forgiving type and that hasn’t actually happened.

What you all will discover soon enough is that there is no correlation between the rank of your kid’s college and their professional success or personal happiness. Five, ten, fifteen years out of college, when I line up all of my kids and all of their friends first by college rank and then by professional/personal success each line is dramatically different. It really, truly doesn’t matter. But there’s no convincing many parents who are currently in the process of this fact. I understand that, because I’ve been there.

[Anonymous]

I agree, but also this starts when the kids are infants. Raising kids in this area, you deal with people like this basically from your first interaction with other parents on playgrounds or in toddler playgroups. It's exhausting and creates this spiral where everyone is so insecure about their child's "achievement" and goes into these warrior like stances on everything from athletics to school to parenting choices.

This attitude does exist elsewhere (my siblings deal with it where they live out West too) but I think it's especially bad here. I see it in the kids more than anything. Some of them have taken on these attitudes and are becoming as toxic as their parents, some are crumbling under the pressure of trying to live up to this impossible standard that is really about bragging rights for their parents, and some of them just become defiant and stop caring because thy can see how dumb it is.

It's no way to live. I feel like I put more work into protecting my kid and my family from that toxic Hunger Games culture than I put into trying to get my child into the best possible college. This is not the path to happiness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:big part of it is due to the unfair and fukced up system

That's because you view college as the destination instead of part of the journey. There are many paths to a successful life and going to a T20 school doesn't guaranty any particular outcome.

No you are assuming too much.
You view the unfair and fuked up system is ok.
That's fine.

It’s unfair, but definitely not to you.

Again you assume too much.

Let me rephrase that: it’s very unfair to kids from SE DC or from rural West Virginia.

Does that fit you?

Don't they get bump up and advantage??

I don't get any advantage.

“I”? Are you applying to college this year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hear, hear, OP! I find it jarring when parents here write "we have applied to 20 colleges" or "we sent in a SAT score" or "we wrote the essay".

It should not be "we". It should be he or she (or they, if that's how you roll). The parent needs to divest a bit and let the applicant own their own decisions, write their own essays, etc. Back off and stop micromanaging to the point that you use "we". When you write that "we" did it, it shouts: "I don't trust my kid to do the process correctly". Well, why is your child applying to college, then?

We lived in a smaller house, we skipped vacations, we had a tighter food/entertainment/clothing budget so we get a say in the decision. When I went to college, merit aid brought my state flagship tuition down to almost nothing. If my kids can find similar deals the we'll have no say. If they think Oberlin is their best fit, then we get a say

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:big part of it is due to the unfair and fukced up system

That's because you view college as the destination instead of part of the journey. There are many paths to a successful life and going to a T20 school doesn't guaranty any particular outcome.

I feel like this is always said disingenuously. You want other people to believe this so they aren't in your way, but don't practice what you preach.

Not PP, but I truly believe this. I'm smart enough to know from real life that I know lots of smart successful people , and only a few of them went to an elite school. Most of the executives I know did not, most of them are millionaires. They are smart motivated and got to that point thru hard work, just like 99.999% of people. In fact, most didn't even go to T30-60 schools, most went to 100+ in the rankings or unknown ones to many. Heck I even know 2 EVP of sales who are millionaires and did not even graduate college. In fact, didn't even know they didn't have a college degree until recently, because it doesn't matter. They are highly successful (known both for over 20 years). One has been a CEO of a startup as well. I didn't know because nobody cares or talks about where you went to school. Other than when your kids are applying to college or its march madness or fall college football, it's just not something normal people discuss ad nauseum

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:big part of it is due to the unfair and fukced up system

That's because you view college as the destination instead of part of the journey. There are many paths to a successful life and going to a T20 school doesn't guaranty any particular outcome.

No you are assuming too much.
You view the unfair and fuked up system is ok.
That's fine.

It’s unfair, but definitely not to you.

Again you assume too much.

Let me rephrase that: it’s very unfair to kids from SE DC or from rural West Virginia.

Does that fit you?

Don't they get bump up and advantage??

I don't get any advantage.

“I”? Are you applying to college this year?

You said "You", so I just matched that.
That's not the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:big part of it is due to the unfair and fukced up system

That's because you view college as the destination instead of part of the journey. There are many paths to a successful life and going to a T20 school doesn't guaranty any particular outcome.

No you are assuming too much.
You view the unfair and fuked up system is ok.
That's fine.

It’s unfair, but definitely not to you.

Again you assume too much.

Let me rephrase that: it’s very unfair to kids from SE DC or from rural West Virginia.

Does that fit you?

Don't they get bump up and advantage??

I don't get any advantage.

“I”? Are you applying to college this year?

You said "You", so I just matched that.
That's not the point.

Your child has a lot of advantages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:big part of it is due to the unfair and fukced up system

That's because you view college as the destination instead of part of the journey. There are many paths to a successful life and going to a T20 school doesn't guaranty any particular outcome.

Maybe I view college as something that we've had to heavily save for over the past two decades. College will be second to our house as far as major purchases go, it will cost more than every vehicle we've ever owned combined. It may not be the destination, but we do very much care about it.

If you truly care about it and your investment, you would realize that you do NOT need to spend $80K/year to get an education. Plenty of great schools that will cost you much less. Going to a t20 does NOT guarantee success

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Like everything else, with the passage of time parents realize they made mistakes. I was obsessed with the test scores at my kids’ public elementary school and my school obsession continued all the way through college admissions. Now that it’s all behind me, it’s very obvious that how I acted was unhealthy and unnecessary - and that I risked serious damage to my relationship with my kids for no reason whatsoever. Fortunately, my kids are the forgiving type and that hasn’t actually happened.

What you all will discover soon enough is that there is no correlation between the rank of your kid’s college and their professional success or personal happiness. Five, ten, fifteen years out of college, when I line up all of my kids and all of their friends first by college rank and then by professional/personal success each line is dramatically different. It really, truly doesn’t matter. But there’s no convincing many parents who are currently in the process of this fact. I understand that, because I’ve been there.

PP, could you elaborate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:big part of it is due to the unfair and fukced up system

That's because you view college as the destination instead of part of the journey. There are many paths to a successful life and going to a T20 school doesn't guaranty any particular outcome.

Maybe I view college as something that we've had to heavily save for over the past two decades. College will be second to our house as far as major purchases go, it will cost more than every vehicle we've ever owned combined. It may not be the destination, but we do very much care about it.

Again, this is a choice you are making. College doesn't have to cost $80,000 per year. Now, of course, if you are going to spend that much, your child should absolutely work hard and make the most of it. But there are other options out there.

This is also part of the problem. You have saved money for it so you feel entitled to it. But that isn't how college admissions works.

Why do you assume 80k a year with that level of savings? Not everyone is rich. Some people have to save like that to afford instate flagships

Well, if they're saving to afford in-state school, then they likely aren't gunning for T20s and putting all that pressure on their kids. In-state schools are achievable for almost all kids. This was kind of what we told DC and she had her sights set on our in-state flagships and its honors college for all of HS and she had a pretty relaxed senior year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Like everything else, with the passage of time parents realize they made mistakes. I was obsessed with the test scores at my kids’ public elementary school and my school obsession continued all the way through college admissions. Now that it’s all behind me, it’s very obvious that how I acted was unhealthy and unnecessary - and that I risked serious damage to my relationship with my kids for no reason whatsoever. Fortunately, my kids are the forgiving type and that hasn’t actually happened.

What you all will discover soon enough is that there is no correlation between the rank of your kid’s college and their professional success or personal happiness. Five, ten, fifteen years out of college, when I line up all of my kids and all of their friends first by college rank and then by professional/personal success each line is dramatically different. It really, truly doesn’t matter. But there’s no convincing many parents who are currently in the process of this fact. I understand that, because I’ve been there.

This should be obvious to people even just looking at their own families and peers they went to school with, but people lose their minds a bit with fear when it comes to their kids.

Like doesn't everyone know someone from high school or college who took an unconventional route and wound up incredibly fulfilled and successful even though they did want the college admissions olympics or have a really impressive resume at 22? I know a bunch of people like this. They were smart people who didn't make bad choices (not talking about drop outs or people who developed drug problems or something) but they didn't succumb to pressure to achieve in a very specific, prescribed way in HS and college or grad school and instead figured out what they really wanted to do, and what would be fulfilling to them, and then found ways to accomplish that goal in a targeted, thoughtful way. Their plan was never "Havard then top law or business school then I'm rich" which it turns out is a really good plan if you want to be miserable and unfulfilled in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:big part of it is due to the unfair and fukced up system

That's because you view college as the destination instead of part of the journey. There are many paths to a successful life and going to a T20 school doesn't guaranty any particular outcome.

No you are assuming too much.
You view the unfair and fuked up system is ok.
That's fine.

It’s unfair, but definitely not to you.

Again you assume too much.

Let me rephrase that: it’s very unfair to kids from SE DC or from rural West Virginia.

Does that fit you?

Don't they get bump up and advantage??

I don't get any advantage.

“I”? Are you applying to college this year?

You said "You", so I just matched that.
That's not the point.

Your child has a lot of advantages.

Again you assume too much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:big part of it is due to the unfair and fukced up system

That's because you view college as the destination instead of part of the journey. There are many paths to a successful life and going to a T20 school doesn't guaranty any particular outcome.

No you are assuming too much.
You view the unfair and fuked up system is ok.
That's fine.

Please share why you believe the system is "unfair and fuked up." I'm not necessarily in disagreement but I'm curious about your perspective.