I am so sick of talking about sexuality, gender, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, when you say you're so sick of talking about sexuality and gender, you mean you are so sick of kids talking about sexuality and gender?

Because you definitely don't have to talk about it if nobody brings it up with you (beyond your obligatory sex talks), and you definitely don't have to involve yourself in their conversations.

OP here. I overhear some conversations because I am often the driver to events, and also host kid events. Also: they chat online (loudly; we have a small house, so it is impossible not to hear!), etc.

And: my kid brings the topics up to me when confused or concerned about something. For that, I do consider myself lucky! I would never, in a million years say, "Don't talk to me about this!"

Yeah but you can subtly share your thoughts about it. Like, I am not going to take all this stuff seriously, though I respect their need to discuss it and think about it. But no way I am going to use a new pronoun unless my kid is super serious and insisting etc etc.
i think I will be able to tell if he is just following his peers or there’s really something going on

DP. The thing that’s so difficult about this from a parenting perspective is that kids can sense your doubt (or at least lack of enthusiasm) and the messaging they’re getting about this online is that that equates to transphobia or homophobia. If you want to maintain any level of trust with your kid, you have to be really, really careful in discussing these topics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hi and I was as well. I gently steered her to expand her friendships (of course maintain with this primary group but expand to a broader range of friends) and the intensity of the discussions/confusion abated. Her friendships with older teens (ages 16 and 17) through orchestra turned out to be the healthiest time spent. It's just TOO MUCH in some groups of middle schoolers right now......my DD (age 13) actually was not confused about her gender/sexuality and was being questioned/pressured about her lack of confusion....I don't believe that's healthy. Love is love. We support all choices. I will say that for kids who don't have any confusion, there is some current peer pressure to be very confused.......it seems to be rather "fashionable", which I am concerned may negatively impact the smaller percentage of kids who really are confused and need our uncoditional support.

OP here. Thank you for this. DH and I are considering how to help our kid branch out a bit now as this friend group had gotten pretty insular through the pandemic. I've also noticed my kid's anxiety rising, and it seems to be almost all the kids in the group celebrate having "social anxiety"; and, before this group became so tightly knit, my kid was not anxious. May I ask how you went about gently steering the expansion of your daughter's friendships?

DP. I don’t do it for this purpose, but spending summer in a different time zone with different people around definitely helps to clear one’s head. But, my kid is ok being away from friends for the summer. If he protested I would reconsider.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, when you say you're so sick of talking about sexuality and gender, you mean you are so sick of kids talking about sexuality and gender?

Because you definitely don't have to talk about it if nobody brings it up with you (beyond your obligatory sex talks), and you definitely don't have to involve yourself in their conversations.

OP here. I overhear some conversations because I am often the driver to events, and also host kid events. Also: they chat online (loudly; we have a small house, so it is impossible not to hear!), etc.

And: my kid brings the topics up to me when confused or concerned about something. For that, I do consider myself lucky! I would never, in a million years say, "Don't talk to me about this!"

Yeah but you can subtly share your thoughts about it. Like, I am not going to take all this stuff seriously, though I respect their need to discuss it and think about it. But no way I am going to use a new pronoun unless my kid is super serious and insisting etc etc.
i think I will be able to tell if he is just following his peers or there’s really something going on

DP. The thing that’s so difficult about this from a parenting perspective is that kids can sense your doubt (or at least lack of enthusiasm) and the messaging they’re getting about this online is that that equates to transphobia or homophobia. If you want to maintain any level of trust with your kid, you have to be really, really careful in discussing these topics.

I have thought about this. Yes it seems like if you aren’t enthusiastic you are a horrible terrible awful person. Silence is violence and all that.
Honestly, I think two things. First, my kid seems to be pretty gender conforming, always was, not a jock but just comfortable being a boy if you know what I mean, subtle things. Second, I am human and am entitled to my own opinions. Not shutting down conversations and not raging at these topics is enough parenting here. Kids learn by reading out subtle approvals and disapprovals; if it helps him avoid falling for the fad - so be it. I am pretty sure I will notice and would have noticed long ago if he were non conforming in any way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Um, didn't you frequently talk about dating and sex when you were a middle schooler? Didn't you frequently talk about trappings related to gender, such as who had great clothes, who had great hair, who was allowed to wear makeup, etc.?

So if it was OK for you to talk with your friends about topics related to sex and dating and gender, that was fine--because you were sticking to mostly straight and heteronormative topics?

But somehow it's not OK for middle schoolers to talk about dating, sex and topics related to gender...just because they are discussing more than just straight and heteronormative topics?

My brother came out as gay when he was 28 years old. He was gay as a middle schooler but didn't talk about it with his family, friends or anyone because he was afraid of being ostracized and even harmed or killed. And you think it's a bad thing for kids who are gay now to be comfortable talking about it? You'd rather they live in fear and silence and contemplate suicide, like my brother did?

OP here. I am truly sorry that your brother went through this. No one deserves to be silenced or to live in fear; I did not say that and never would.

I grew up with a gay family member whose partner died of AIDS. I remember all too well the sadness and fear everyone went through at the time of diagnosis and illness -- separately because, of course, no one talked *really* about it back then.

I am very glad that these can be topics of open conversation in many circles, but I think the constant media focus, kid focus on the topic, etc. can be a bit overdone at times. But: I am not gay. Or trans. So, really, my opinion and feelings are not what needs to be considered here. I was really looking for a reality check, as I don't know many other parents well enough to discuss in person.

And, again, I am sorry for what your brother experienced. I hope he is able to live more freely now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s definitely been the main focus of my recent 8th grader’s friend group for the past three years. I get it, but I also wonder if there’s a whole lot of living they’re missing out on by getting bogged down in the labels. It’s so self-obsessive, but of course I say that from the perspective of having already gone through adolescence. I think it’s mostly a phase, but I also observe plenty of older teens and 20-somethings still ruminating.

OP here. I worry about the kids getting bogged down in the labels, too. It seems like they're limiting themselves.

I also get the feeling that they all want to "be something", and these days it seems like the "something special to be" is a label that is not the typical "norm" (hetero); it is the kids who are gay, bi, trans, pan, etc. who get the special attention and celebrations for coming out w/their announcements.

NP. My DS is 9 and is already special with a genetic disease and a diagnosis of ASD and ADHD. But he wants to be trans because he wants to be special and different, like the other kids. There's parental support and then there's parental support.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is a rising 7th grader and luckily not quite there yet. He does inundate me with all the videogame and YouTube talk though!
He seems to think it’s stupid to have so many genders - he was talking about the latest Wings of Fire book and how “they now have pronouns, oh no!” I just tell him to be very careful when discussing it with friends for fear to be labeled a bigot or whatnot. But I secretly agree with him lol

To add: I actually went so far as to tell him that it’s a fad for 99% of people talking about it. If he is the 1% who is serious about it he should come to me and I will support him. But if he just wants to fit in - fine but I won’t be going out of my way to support him, just not disparage. And he shouldn’t dismiss other people who think it’s serious for them even if he thinks it’s not. And he shouldn’t question others, except at home with me we can roll eyes together
He knows society is not too tolerant to all the homophobic and transphobic stuff, at least not where we live.

Try 10%: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna16556

Kind of proves my point, this article, no? 20% identify as lgbtq, really?

[Anonymous]

MS and HS have always discussed sexuality and dating and clothes etc. its just that taboo of sex and sexuality is finally starting to be removed so kids are having these conversations openly. Pressure has always existed from peers. Parents today are just prepared to a degree to deal with drugs, alcohol, and teen sex. They’re coming up to speed on social media and technology. Now they need to become prepared with regards to sexuality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s definitely been the main focus of my recent 8th grader’s friend group for the past three years. I get it, but I also wonder if there’s a whole lot of living they’re missing out on by getting bogged down in the labels. It’s so self-obsessive, but of course I say that from the perspective of having already gone through adolescence. I think it’s mostly a phase, but I also observe plenty of older teens and 20-somethings still ruminating.

OP here. I worry about the kids getting bogged down in the labels, too. It seems like they're limiting themselves.

I also get the feeling that they all want to "be something", and these days it seems like the "something special to be" is a label that is not the typical "norm" (hetero); it is the kids who are gay, bi, trans, pan, etc. who get the special attention and celebrations for coming out w/their announcements.

NP. My DS is 9 and is already special with a genetic disease and a diagnosis of ASD and ADHD. But he wants to be trans because he wants to be special and different, like the other kids. There's parental support and then there's parental support.

DP. There’s “cool” and there’s not so cool special…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, when you say you're so sick of talking about sexuality and gender, you mean you are so sick of kids talking about sexuality and gender?

Because you definitely don't have to talk about it if nobody brings it up with you (beyond your obligatory sex talks), and you definitely don't have to involve yourself in their conversations.

OP here. I overhear some conversations because I am often the driver to events, and also host kid events. Also: they chat online (loudly; we have a small house, so it is impossible not to hear!), etc.

And: my kid brings the topics up to me when confused or concerned about something. For that, I do consider myself lucky! I would never, in a million years say, "Don't talk to me about this!"

Yeah but you can subtly share your thoughts about it. Like, I am not going to take all this stuff seriously, though I respect their need to discuss it and think about it. But no way I am going to use a new pronoun unless my kid is super serious and insisting etc etc.
i think I will be able to tell if he is just following his peers or there’s really something going on

Thank you. That is helpful. I am learning that I'm a better listener than sharer of my feelings w/my kid on these subjects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My son is a rising 7th grader and luckily not quite there yet. He does inundate me with all the videogame and YouTube talk though!
He seems to think it’s stupid to have so many genders - he was talking about the latest Wings of Fire book and how “they now have pronouns, oh no!” I just tell him to be very careful when discussing it with friends for fear to be labeled a bigot or whatnot. But I secretly agree with him lol

To add: I actually went so far as to tell him that it’s a fad for 99% of people talking about it. If he is the 1% who is serious about it he should come to me and I will support him. But if he just wants to fit in - fine but I won’t be going out of my way to support him, just not disparage. And he shouldn’t dismiss other people who think it’s serious for them even if he thinks it’s not. And he shouldn’t question others, except at home with me we can roll eyes together
He knows society is not too tolerant to all the homophobic and transphobic stuff, at least not where we live.

Do you think that society should tolerate homophobia and transphobia, when it literally leads to violence, murder, bullying and keeping people from getting jobs and housing, etc.? Serious question. I genuinely want to know your answer.

I am not sure I understand your question? There should be no “phobias” ideally. And definitely no violence. What I meant was - he shouldn’t say things that can be interpreted as phobic, such as “you are just falling for the fad”, even though it may be true. He should NOT say it, period.

Thank you for clarifying. I did not mean to put you on the spot, I genuinely could not tell if you wanted homophobia and transphobia to be "tolerated," even though they cause people to be directly harmed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s definitely been the main focus of my recent 8th grader’s friend group for the past three years. I get it, but I also wonder if there’s a whole lot of living they’re missing out on by getting bogged down in the labels. It’s so self-obsessive, but of course I say that from the perspective of having already gone through adolescence. I think it’s mostly a phase, but I also observe plenty of older teens and 20-somethings still ruminating.

OP here. I worry about the kids getting bogged down in the labels, too. It seems like they're limiting themselves.

I also get the feeling that they all want to "be something", and these days it seems like the "something special to be" is a label that is not the typical "norm" (hetero); it is the kids who are gay, bi, trans, pan, etc. who get the special attention and celebrations for coming out w/their announcements.

NP. My DS is 9 and is already special with a genetic disease and a diagnosis of ASD and ADHD. But he wants to be trans because he wants to be special and different, like the other kids. There's parental support and then there's parental support.

Can you tell me more about what you mean by this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:MS and HS have always discussed sexuality and dating and clothes etc. its just that taboo of sex and sexuality is finally starting to be removed so kids are having these conversations openly. Pressure has always existed from peers. Parents today are just prepared to a degree to deal with drugs, alcohol, and teen sex. They’re coming up to speed on social media and technology. Now they need to become prepared with regards to sexuality.

OP here. Any suggestions for being better prepared? For example: I don't know some of the terms the kids use, so am often Googling when my kid comes to me with a question about something he also doesn't understand.

[Anonymous]

What planet and what decade did middle schooler not talk about dating/who they like?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MS and HS have always discussed sexuality and dating and clothes etc. its just that taboo of sex and sexuality is finally starting to be removed so kids are having these conversations openly. Pressure has always existed from peers. Parents today are just prepared to a degree to deal with drugs, alcohol, and teen sex. They’re coming up to speed on social media and technology. Now they need to become prepared with regards to sexuality.

OP here. Any suggestions for being better prepared? For example: I don't know some of the terms the kids use, so am often Googling when my kid comes to me with a question about something he also doesn't understand.

https://www.npr.org/2021/06/02/996319297/gender-identity-pronouns-expression-guide-lgbtq

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In my day it was interracial dating. My parents didn't want to hear about that either.

What did your peers think? Cool or not?

They were all dating outside their ethnic groups too. Ironically, my parents are an interracial marriage (white/Filipino). I'm like, hello, hypocrites! She would tell me I'm so lucky I got my Dad's European nose instead of her flat Filipino nose. She couldn't understand why I liked a guy whose nose was flatter than hers.