I want to get away from friend groups/communities with this specific type of woman: where to go?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:YOU NEED TO LEAVE THE AREA. No other options OP.

Wherever you go, there you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get it.

She gets a lot done?

Why would she “dote on” you or give you advice? What’s that mean you are her minion, she orders you around at school or the pool or work or what?

Have you ever known someone who seems to take a special interest in you when you meet, paying you lots of compliments on your appearance or a clever comment or just comes on a little strong in a flattering way? Like after a couple weeks of working together they are effusively expressing how much they like you and how great you are? Maybe they talk you up to others to, maybe they randomly do nice things for you without you asking, like pay attention to your coffee order and then surprise you with it, or buy you a little gift for no reason.

But then you notice they start asking you for little favors? At first little stuff like can you swing by and pick me up on the way to happy hour? Maybe asking to borrow a dress or something. And even if you want to say no (maybe you were planning on taking an uber to the HH, or it's your favorite dress and you don't generally loan out clothes), you remember how nice they are to you and all the times they've said such pleasant things about you and complimented you, and so you say yes out of a sense of wanting to be reciprocal. Or maybe you say no and they talk you into it ("oh that's no problem, can you just have the uber swing by my place? it's right on the way" even if maybe it's only sort of on the way). But then the asks start escalating and they aren't as nice about it, in fact sometimes they sound kind of like orders.

Perhaps you notice this shift and start pulling back and saying no. And this will result in all those compliments and the friendliness from before disappearing, and then you'll hear through the grapevine they said something kind of mean or hurtful about you to other people, and you'll notice their demeanor towards you will shift and maybe they'll even start saying kind of critical or snarky things to your face. If you seem bothered, they'll roll their eyes and say they were kidding. After all, friends tease each other. You're not oversensitive, are you?

That's what it looks like when someone like this tries to turn you into a "minion." There are therapist words for some of this behavior but this is the gist of it. It is not pleasant and can feel especially harmful when this person is your boss or a colleague, part of your main social circle, or in your family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've lived in DC for over a decade now and I keep winding up in situations where I am in close proximity to a very specific type of woman: type A, overachiever, from a doting family (think super involved grandparents, parents who always told her she was smarter and better than other kids), married to a high earning man (usually a somewhat bro-y guy who is easy going but kind of dense and boring).

Very smart to the point of being manipulative in social settings. Can gossip/talk $hit about other women in a way that never comes off as gossipy but accomplishes the same goal. Forceful (which I might say is a euphemism for pushy, but she and others would describe her as forceful or "a force of nature").

Maneuvers into positions of authority in every setting -- work, volunteer orgs, PTA, neighborhood, her regular barre studio, a wedding party, the dog park.

Has two kinds of friends:
(1) frenemies, who are women who are just like her against whom she competes for control of things, but they are surface friends and they secretly do not like each other, and
(2) minions, women who look up to her and sing her praises at every turn and whom she is often "helping" in ways that some people (me) would find condescending and over-involved.

Not here to discuss whether this type of person is good or bad. It's a type. There are many in DC, and I would like to minimize my exposure to them.

I have found that once I am in a community with this sort of person, it is hard to get her to ignore me or leave me alone, and she either tries to adopt me as a minion (most common, I really hate this, I don't want to be someone's acolyte and I really, really hate being told how to handle my life so it just doesn't work) or she will target me as a threat and start talking negatively about me behind my back.

Directness doesn't work because they will either just steamroll over your direct request ("please stop suggesting jobs for me, I am not job hunting" and then they keep doing it because they are convinced you don't know what is best for you) or will attempt to manipulate and maneuver around it.

So I give up. I just want one place where I can be social and have friends in DC where there isn't a woman like this.

If this is you, where do you NOT go. Or have any of you found a secret place where these women aren't? I just want to be free. I am tired. Would moving away from DC help? If so, where?

Wow OP, you sure got her all figured it! Her spouse, her childhood, her friends, and that these types are all over DC. So omniscient.

You start by saying typical stuff like Type A, involved, and high achieving- indeed found everywhere in big cities- then go on to describe a busy person who’s an idiot. Weird.

This post is hilarious on so many levels.

So odd that this type wastes time trying to be your friend or help you. Most busy high achieving people don’t like to waste their limited time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've lived in DC for over a decade now and I keep winding up in situations where I am in close proximity to a very specific type of woman: type A, overachiever, from a doting family (think super involved grandparents, parents who always told her she was smarter and better than other kids), married to a high earning man (usually a somewhat bro-y guy who is easy going but kind of dense and boring).

Very smart to the point of being manipulative in social settings. Can gossip/talk $hit about other women in a way that never comes off as gossipy but accomplishes the same goal.

Forceful (which I might say is a euphemism for pushy, but she and others would describe her as forceful or "a force of nature").

Maneuvers into positions of authority in every setting -- work, volunteer orgs, PTA, neighborhood, her regular barre studio, a wedding party, the dog park.

Has two kinds of friends: (1) frenemies, who are women who are just like her against whom she competes for control of things, but they are surface friends and they secretly do not like each other, and (2) minions, women who look up to her and sing her praises at every turn and whom she is often "helping" in ways that some people (me) would find condescending and over-involved.

Not here to discuss whether this type of person is good or bad. It's a type. There are many in DC, and I would like to minimize my exposure to them.

I have found that once I am in a community with this sort of person, it is hard to get her to ignore me or leave me alone, and she either tries to adopt me as a minion (most common, I really hate this, I don't want to be someone's acolyte and I really, really hate being told how to handle my life so it just doesn't work) or she will target me as a threat and start talking negatively about me behind my back.

Directness doesn't work because they will either just steamroll over your direct request ("please stop suggesting jobs for me, I am not job hunting" and then they keep doing it because they are convinced you don't know what is best for you) or will attempt to manipulate and maneuver around it.

So I give up. I just want one place where I can be social and have friends in DC where there isn't a woman like this. If this is you, where do you NOT go. Or have any of you found a secret place where these women aren't? I just want to be free. I am tired. Would moving away from DC help? If so, where?

This is a work situation?!

And you know all about this women as listed above?

She sounds toxic and unprofessional.

Is this a non profit or someplace where no one can report gossip, slander, poor management?

Op said it happens to her all the time all over DC. Fascinating.

[Anonymous]

You lost me at “friend groups”. Yeah don’t do friend groups. If you need friends play a sport and befriend men. Youre welcome

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This feels very white woman-ish so I'm just going to eat popcorn and watch the thread.

Agree.

I’d say it’s typical of the southern etiquette-ists who are overly performative and nice to everyone’s face then drop them. But this sounds like someone action oriented, educated and then layers on weird behaviors incongruent with being professional or high achieving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It all makes sense and the OP has pretty much summed up why certain people are stand-offish and don’t want to engage in this area. This stand-offish demeanor can be viewed as coldness, but after experiencing your fill of what OP is describing I see it and have seen it for some time and it is very sad. No matter what walk of life you come from you have to be very careful how you treat others. We all have challenges at some point or another and you don’t know what the future holds. The same people you mistreated could be the ones to help you. Their kids could be the ones that comfort and lift your kids up one day.

When my family and I first came to the area, I came with an authentically welcoming and bubbly attitude, I remember not being totally shocked, but a little surprised on my interactions with moms, specifically. We could be helping each other and forming more of a collaborative community, but instead we disparage and gossip about one another, always looking to jab and hurt the other person. Smile at another woman today, say something positive and encouraging. Make today Lift Each Other Up Day. Can we do that one day? A day without all the baggage…this is coming from an alley cat (it’s a metaphor), I don’t play games especially about my kids and my man, but I try to do this when I can and will do my best, no one is perfect. ❤️

Your school or community group of women gets together to disparage and gossip about other women!? They sound like total losers with too much time doing nothing.

Guess I easily avoided these groups or types since 2009 living in NW DC, Bethesdas, 3 different jobs, and kids in two different private schools.

Just do your thing Op and don’t look back!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just wanted to compliment OP on your clear writing style. A post that long on dcum is usually hard to follow but your post was specific and flowed easily. Have you ever thought about a job in PR?

Lol
Not.
She contradicts herself multiple times and offers no support to her wild claims.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you imagine taking notes on people and cross-referencing them into a character type more elaborate than a Tarantino script description?

It’s not like she’s a trained CIA profiler, she’s just a SAHM with nothing to do but instantly label people she meets.

Instantly labeling is one thing that requires a one-word description: snobby, manipulative, shy, etc.

OP’s description of this “type” is the diatribe of a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist.

There just are sahm that are bored without careers, so they funnel all that energy and ambition into their personal lives. They are intelligent, ambitious, and competitive. Unfortunately they've married someone with more money, so they sahm.

Also they're annoying to OP, but that's a her problem.

There are so many cool, accomplished, level headed women here in DC - highest % of dual income families in the country - that I truly do not understand how she hasn’t met a ton of them.

Join a running club that goes at 6am?
Work with more men?
Talk to the women reading a book not gossiping?
Smile at people and approach them, not vice versa?

I dunno. dc has been great, better than Boston, Manhattan, London and Philly for us all!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:YOU NEED TO LEAVE THE AREA. No other options OP.

I appreciate the bluntness. But where?

I'm genuinely asking. I do sometimes think I just am ill suited to the DC area because this annoys me so much and it feels like a very common personality type here. I can't just pick up and leave as I have a job and kids and a spouse. But I am open to thinking about it. Some people say there are people like this everywhere. Is that true? I am not from this area and did not encounter people like this prior to moving here for work.

Basically anywhere with money will have this. It's the spoiled rich alpha female archetype. In working class areas these "forces of nature" are mama bears who are easier to deflect because they always have personal problems.

But not everyone like this is rich. They just have leverage. Even in a wealthy community, you don't necessarily need wealth to be like this. I think of the way some of the rich ladies at my barre studio will clamor over certain instructors, and how some of those instructors use that popularity to get stuff they want out of those ladies. Maybe the instructor is very charismatic and good at her job, or maybe it's a hot guy who knows these women love getting attention and compliments from him.

All you need is leverage. Of course, that's if your goal is to manipulate and dominate people. Plenty of people don't think in these terms and might even have leverage they never use in this way. It's a certain personality type who is maybe high on the narcissism scale, low on the empathy scale, and enjoys the high they get in making people do what they want.

Wow, there’s a needle mover topic to be concerned about, bothered by, and writing two paragraphs on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:YOU NEED TO LEAVE THE AREA. No other options OP.

I appreciate the bluntness. But where?

I'm genuinely asking. I do sometimes think I just am ill suited to the DC area because this annoys me so much and it feels like a very common personality type here. I can't just pick up and leave as I have a job and kids and a spouse. But I am open to thinking about it. Some people say there are people like this everywhere. Is that true? I am not from this area and did not encounter people like this prior to moving here for work.

Basically anywhere with money will have this. It's the spoiled rich alpha female archetype. In working class areas these "forces of nature" are mama bears who are easier to deflect because they always have personal problems.

But not everyone like this is rich. They just have leverage. Even in a wealthy community, you don't necessarily need wealth to be like this. I think of the way some of the rich ladies at my barre studio will clamor over certain instructors, and how some of those instructors use that popularity to get stuff they want out of those ladies. Maybe the instructor is very charismatic and good at her job, or maybe it's a hot guy who knows these women love getting attention and compliments from him.

All you need is leverage. Of course, that's if your goal is to manipulate and dominate people. Plenty of people don't think in these terms and might even have leverage they never use in this way. It's a certain personality type who is maybe high on the narcissism scale, low on the empathy scale, and enjoys the high they get in making people do what they want.

Someone can’t make you do what they want, when it’s BS like this and no gun involved.

Yall need to grow up.

And if you have some great idea and plan for a fundraiser or school thing or Pilates class, then speak up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get it.

She gets a lot done?

Why would she “dote on” you or give you advice? What’s that mean you are her minion, she orders you around at school or the pool or work or what?

Have you ever known someone who seems to take a special interest in you when you meet, paying you lots of compliments on your appearance or a clever comment or just comes on a little strong in a flattering way? Like after a couple weeks of working together they are effusively expressing how much they like you and how great you are? Maybe they talk you up to others to, maybe they randomly do nice things for you without you asking, like pay attention to your coffee order and then surprise you with it, or buy you a little gift for no reason.

But then you notice they start asking you for little favors? At first little stuff like can you swing by and pick me up on the way to happy hour? Maybe asking to borrow a dress or something. And even if you want to say no (maybe you were planning on taking an uber to the HH, or it's your favorite dress and you don't generally loan out clothes), you remember how nice they are to you and all the times they've said such pleasant things about you and complimented you, and so you say yes out of a sense of wanting to be reciprocal. Or maybe you say no and they talk you into it ("oh that's no problem, can you just have the uber swing by my place? it's right on the way" even if maybe it's only sort of on the way). But then the asks start escalating and they aren't as nice about it, in fact sometimes they sound kind of like orders.

Perhaps you notice this shift and start pulling back and saying no. And this will result in all those compliments and the friendliness from before disappearing, and then you'll hear through the grapevine they said something kind of mean or hurtful about you to other people, and you'll notice their demeanor towards you will shift and maybe they'll even start saying kind of critical or snarky things to your face. If you seem bothered, they'll roll their eyes and say they were kidding. After all, friends tease each other. You're not oversensitive, are you?

That's what it looks like when someone like this tries to turn you into a "minion." There are therapist words for some of this behavior but this is the gist of it. It is not pleasant and can feel especially harmful when this person is your boss or a colleague, part of your main social circle, or in your family.

No.

@$$ kissing doesn’t work on me but I’m nice, civil and friendly to all.

My brother married someone who tried it and sent me gushy gifts and photos of them when they were dating. I don’t think I even sent a thank you. That was over the top odd behavior.

We get along just fine, and she has her sorority friends and mom to phone and gossip about. But yes she’s very social, throws parties, takes a ton of girls trips, and loves social validation. I don’t care. And am not invited. And not offended. There’s a certain fakeness to her. Even my husband notices it, we actually took them out of the guardianship lineup for our kids 10 years in. We don’t trust her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get it.

She gets a lot done?

Why would she “dote on” you or give you advice? What’s that mean you are her minion, she orders you around at school or the pool or work or what?

Have you ever known someone who seems to take a special interest in you when you meet, paying you lots of compliments on your appearance or a clever comment or just comes on a little strong in a flattering way? Like after a couple weeks of working together they are effusively expressing how much they like you and how great you are? Maybe they talk you up to others to, maybe they randomly do nice things for you without you asking, like pay attention to your coffee order and then surprise you with it, or buy you a little gift for no reason.

But then you notice they start asking you for little favors? At first little stuff like can you swing by and pick me up on the way to happy hour? Maybe asking to borrow a dress or something. And even if you want to say no (maybe you were planning on taking an uber to the HH, or it's your favorite dress and you don't generally loan out clothes), you remember how nice they are to you and all the times they've said such pleasant things about you and complimented you, and so you say yes out of a sense of wanting to be reciprocal. Or maybe you say no and they talk you into it ("oh that's no problem, can you just have the uber swing by my place? it's right on the way" even if maybe it's only sort of on the way). But then the asks start escalating and they aren't as nice about it, in fact sometimes they sound kind of like orders.

Perhaps you notice this shift and start pulling back and saying no. And this will result in all those compliments and the friendliness from before disappearing, and then you'll hear through the grapevine they said something kind of mean or hurtful about you to other people, and you'll notice their demeanor towards you will shift and maybe they'll even start saying kind of critical or snarky things to your face. If you seem bothered, they'll roll their eyes and say they were kidding. After all, friends tease each other. You're not oversensitive, are you?

That's what it looks like when someone like this tries to turn you into a "minion." There are therapist words for some of this behavior but this is the gist of it. It is not pleasant and can feel especially harmful when this person is your boss or a colleague, part of your main social circle, or in your family.

No.

People I barely know do not ask me to do favors for them nor do I have time to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get it.

She gets a lot done?

Why would she “dote on” you or give you advice? What’s that mean you are her minion, she orders you around at school or the pool or work or what?

Have you ever known someone who seems to take a special interest in you when you meet, paying you lots of compliments on your appearance or a clever comment or just comes on a little strong in a flattering way? Like after a couple weeks of working together they are effusively expressing how much they like you and how great you are? Maybe they talk you up to others to, maybe they randomly do nice things for you without you asking, like pay attention to your coffee order and then surprise you with it, or buy you a little gift for no reason.

But then you notice they start asking you for little favors? At first little stuff like can you swing by and pick me up on the way to happy hour? Maybe asking to borrow a dress or something. And even if you want to say no (maybe you were planning on taking an uber to the HH, or it's your favorite dress and you don't generally loan out clothes), you remember how nice they are to you and all the times they've said such pleasant things about you and complimented you, and so you say yes out of a sense of wanting to be reciprocal. Or maybe you say no and they talk you into it ("oh that's no problem, can you just have the uber swing by my place? it's right on the way" even if maybe it's only sort of on the way). But then the asks start escalating and they aren't as nice about it, in fact sometimes they sound kind of like orders.

Perhaps you notice this shift and start pulling back and saying no. And this will result in all those compliments and the friendliness from before disappearing, and then you'll hear through the grapevine they said something kind of mean or hurtful about you to other people, and you'll notice their demeanor towards you will shift and maybe they'll even start saying kind of critical or snarky things to your face. If you seem bothered, they'll roll their eyes and say they were kidding. After all, friends tease each other. You're not oversensitive, are you?

That's what it looks like when someone like this tries to turn you into a "minion." There are therapist words for some of this behavior but this is the gist of it. It is not pleasant and can feel especially harmful when this person is your boss or a colleague, part of your main social circle, or in your family.

No.

@$$ kissing doesn’t work on me but I’m nice, civil and friendly to all.

My brother married someone who tried it and sent me gushy gifts and photos of them when they were dating. I don’t think I even sent a thank you. That was over the top odd behavior.

We get along just fine, and she has her sorority friends and mom to phone and gossip about. But yes she’s very social, throws parties, takes a ton of girls trips, and loves social validation. I don’t care. And am not invited. And not offended. There’s a certain fakeness to her. Even my husband notices it, we actually took them out of the guardianship lineup for our kids 10 years in. We don’t trust her.

I will add that she once did get in a conflict with a social high achieving educated woman who was running a family work event better than her and she trash talked her at home with another committee and in front of my parents. My parents never looked at her the same nor with the same level of respect. She really let loose and unmasked and looked highly mean, jealous and b1tchy.

Who knows what she says to me to her similar friends! I definitely don’t give her much fuel or ammo about me or my kids or life- she just knows we live in a nice house, neighborhood, travel a lot, have good jobs and aren’t fat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:YOU NEED TO LEAVE THE AREA. No other options OP.

I appreciate the bluntness. But where?

I'm genuinely asking. I do sometimes think I just am ill suited to the DC area because this annoys me so much and it feels like a very common personality type here. I can't just pick up and leave as I have a job and kids and a spouse. But I am open to thinking about it. Some people say there are people like this everywhere. Is that true? I am not from this area and did not encounter people like this prior to moving here for work.

I don’t know if you’re serious about relocating, but try any medium or large city in the central Time zone.