Tension with Wife's Family over Finances

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You told your father-in-law that your wife wouldn’t be paying back a family loan? No wonder he’s pissed.

OP here. She would not be paying it back with marital income. Since she is now back in school and not earning income that means that I would not be making payments on it with my income.

That’s not how debt works. Jesus, I would hate you too.

Yes, did you also inform the mortgage company, car payment place, and credit card that you would cease making payments after marriage? I hate to say it, but you sound like a dick.

“We shouldn’t split the bill because you ordered something more expensive than me?” You are not some poor 21 year old. When you are established and well off, you don’t complain about splitting restaurant bills, it is pathetic.

Well first of all if someone invites you out the presumption is that they will pay not that they will order a bunch of expensive food and stick you with the bill. If I go out with friends who make less than me especially if I asked them to join me, I pay for them or we go somewhere reasonable. I also don’t order steak while poorer friends are ordering a chicken sandwich then expect them to add $25 (half my steak price) to whatever they expected to pay $8 (half the chicken sandwich price).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My wife and I are both from successful families, but they have very different mindsets in terms of legacy, finances, and the like. I am from a family of physicians that since my grandfather has valued leaving a legacy and paying it forward to future generations. I had my undergraduate, medical, school, and first home paid for. I also will receive/have already received a very generous inheritance. I pay this forward by helping older relatives with managing their affairs (healthcare, finances, housing, etc.) and by helping younger cousins and nieces/nephews obtain prestigious internships, research, and the like. Our family has a collective mindset when it comes to success and resources and I look forward to carrying this forward with my own children.

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My wife's family despite similar if not greater wealth does things very differently. Her father started a highly successful blue collar business which has made far more than I think anyone anticipated. I will include some examples of irritating behavior that he has done:

- He had her take out "loans" from him informally for college and a graduate degree. He was ticked off at me once I informed him the payments on these "loans" would come to an end once our marriage took place.

- He and my MIL invite us on very expensive vacations and then expect us to cover our own cost which can be in the tens of thousands of dollars for some of the trips he likes. They complain if we do not go. I feel annoyed about paying for this as I feel it is essentially my parents/grandparents subsidizing him because they paid for my medical school which is the only reason I can afford to pay for these trips. The older generation in my family always covers vacation expenses.

- Similar situation with restaurants. He will propose an expensive restaurant, order expensive items, and then want to split the check 50/50. Again, I feel my family is subsidizing him so now I really try to get us to go to cheap places if we are dining with them.

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Unfortunately, this different mindset is causing quite a bit of tension and I am not sure how to approach delicately. My wife feels stuck in the middle and I know it would be unproductive to tell my FIL that his cheap ways essentially mean my family wealth is being used to subsidize him.

There is significant problems with your position on the bolded text above. 1) you don’t have any right to tell your FIL that your wife will not be paying back her loan, 2) you are paying your share of the trip not his. If you don’t want to go don’t go but realize your driving a wedge between yourself, your wife and her family 3) splitting a check with your in-laws is perfectly reasonable you can skip it entirely, let your wife go without you or go less frequently 4) your family is nit in any way subsidizing anything you are paying for you and your wife (your family subsidized you) 5) you are the cheap one because you take the position that you are owed and they don’t owe you anything 6) seems like your wife doesn’t work because you don’t give the impression that the money used to pay the expense is also hers

+1 Correct. You have no right to say SHE won’t pay it back, the day she gets some extra money she should repay her premarital obligations.

But you are well within your right not to commingle your funds with her premarital obligation and definitely to say that you won’t be taking that on. Tell FIL to kick rocks

[Anonymous]

FIL does sound like a piece of work. My grandfather was similar (though well-off but much less rich). People who make their fortune in very blue collar jobs seem to often have weird hangups about money. We used to slip the server an extra $20 (we never went to expensive places with him) because we were embarrassed about his poor tipping practices. He would brag that when one of his sons asked for help with paying for college, he told him, “When you get down to your last dollar, then you can come to me for help.”

In your case, I would ask for separate checks but maybe tip a little extra to make up for his cheapness when you go out together. May plan your own vacations but occasionally invite the in-laws so that at least you are doing what you want. Or don’t—not all of us vacation with family.

[Anonymous]

Why don’t you and your wife have her family over for dinner so there’s no issue about paying?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My wife and I are both from successful families, but they have very different mindsets in terms of legacy, finances, and the like. I am from a family of physicians that since my grandfather has valued leaving a legacy and paying it forward to future generations. I had my undergraduate, medical, school, and first home paid for. I also will receive/have already received a very generous inheritance. I pay this forward by helping older relatives with managing their affairs (healthcare, finances, housing, etc.) and by helping younger cousins and nieces/nephews obtain prestigious internships, research, and the like. Our family has a collective mindset when it comes to success and resources and I look forward to carrying this forward with my own children.

-

My wife's family despite similar if not greater wealth does things very differently. Her father started a highly successful blue collar business which has made far more than I think anyone anticipated. I will include some examples of irritating behavior that he has done:

- He had her take out "loans" from him informally for college and a graduate degree. He was ticked off at me once I informed him the payments on these "loans" would come to an end once our marriage took place.

- He and my MIL invite us on very expensive vacations and then expect us to cover our own cost which can be in the tens of thousands of dollars for some of the trips he likes. They complain if we do not go. I feel annoyed about paying for this as I feel it is essentially my parents/grandparents subsidizing him because they paid for my medical school which is the only reason I can afford to pay for these trips. The older generation in my family always covers vacation expenses.

- Similar situation with restaurants. He will propose an expensive restaurant, order expensive items, and then want to split the check 50/50. Again, I feel my family is subsidizing him so now I really try to get us to go to cheap places if we are dining with them.

-

Unfortunately, this different mindset is causing quite a bit of tension and I am not sure how to approach delicately. My wife feels stuck in the middle and I know it would be unproductive to tell my FIL that his cheap ways essentially mean my family wealth is being used to subsidize him.

There is significant problems with your position on the bolded text above. 1) you don’t have any right to tell your FIL that your wife will not be paying back her loan, 2) you are paying your share of the trip not his. If you don’t want to go don’t go but realize your driving a wedge between yourself, your wife and her family 3) splitting a check with your in-laws is perfectly reasonable you can skip it entirely, let your wife go without you or go less frequently 4) your family is nit in any way subsidizing anything you are paying for you and your wife (your family subsidized you) 5) you are the cheap one because you take the position that you are owed and they don’t owe you anything 6) seems like your wife doesn’t work because you don’t give the impression that the money used to pay the expense is also hers

+1 Correct. You have no right to say SHE won’t pay it back, the day she gets some extra money she should repay her premarital obligations.

But you are well within your right not to commingle your funds with her premarital obligation and definitely to say that you won’t be taking that on. Tell FIL to kick rocks

You don't just not "commingle" funds after the fact. Martial assets are marital assets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to let it go.

I had a similar issue where my parents paid for college, car, wedding and downpayment on a house. In-laws saddled dh with 80k in student loans, including a few parent plus loans we paid for them that didn’t even have his name on it. I paid off all the loans very quickly in full once we married. Despite both sides being retired with >10m, we pay our own way on every vacation and split all dinners.

I would be upset if someone ordered up the dinner bill. I’d ask for my own family’s check and he can pay his own. I’d also just not go on fancy vacations that I don’t want.

I bet a lot of this stems from him not being into education. My in-laws are very against universities.

No parents "saddle" their adult child with student loans. He chose to go to that school and they declined fully funding it. Both of those choices are legitimate, but he was the one who owed money.

If this was in the United States, they absolutely did saddle him with debt.

In the US financial aid is based solely on the parent’s income. Because they were wealthy, they blocked their kid from qualifying for aid and refused to pay for it themselves.

This happened to a friend of mine. She had grants and financial aid that covered all of her tuition and living expenses. Then her mom got married her sophomore year of college and suddenly her expected family contribution was 50K a year and she no longer qualified for aid. Stepdad said it wasn’t his problem. She was stuck with massive student loans because her mom got married.

Parents who actually have money and choose to screw over their kids in college are the scum of the earth. Why even have kids if that’s your plan?

So you go to State University or University of X. That's what fiscally responsible people do. I have friends who turned down big name private schools and went to the state flagship instead, because they couldn't afford it. OPs wife couldn't afford her education but went and did it anyway. That's not admirable, that's stupid.

[Anonymous]

OP's problem he is actually broke. He thinks about all his in terms of his family's money because he doesn't have any of his own money that he can decide how he wants to spend. He's basically a trust fund brat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP's problem he is actually broke. He thinks about all his in terms of his family's money because he doesn't have any of his own money that he can decide how he wants to spend. He's basically a trust fund brat.

I think you have it backwards. She's broke. She doesn't have a job, and owes debt to her father. He has a job and didn't say he has debt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's problem he is actually broke. He thinks about all his in terms of his family's money because he doesn't have any of his own money that he can decide how he wants to spend. He's basically a trust fund brat.

I think you have it backwards. She's broke. She doesn't have a job, and owes debt to her father. He has a job and didn't say he has debt.

He feels guilty that he was given everything to get his start in life while he knows his FIL worked very, very hard for everything he has. He’s never had to do any true hard work and he knows he can never compare to his FIL in that respect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's problem he is actually broke. He thinks about all his in terms of his family's money because he doesn't have any of his own money that he can decide how he wants to spend. He's basically a trust fund brat.

I think you have it backwards. She's broke. She doesn't have a job, and owes debt to her father. He has a job and didn't say he has debt.

He feels guilty that he was given everything to get his start in life while he knows his FIL worked very, very hard for everything he has. He’s never had to do any true hard work and he knows he can never compare to his FIL in that respect.

He literally said that was his family's MO to pass down money through the generations, so no OP doesn't feel guilty. That's some fantasy writing. The only thing backwards is OP thinking that his wife is owed something from her father. The more he changes his thinking to "she is broke and in debt and will not receive an inheritance," the better.

The OP values family and generosity. His FIL values self and disavows handouts, even for family. They don't have a value match.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's problem he is actually broke. He thinks about all his in terms of his family's money because he doesn't have any of his own money that he can decide how he wants to spend. He's basically a trust fund brat.

I think you have it backwards. She's broke. She doesn't have a job, and owes debt to her father. He has a job and didn't say he has debt.

OP said it himself that he feels like his extended family is subsidizing, because he doesn't have enough of his own money. Imagine being an adult and fretting about a dinner out because you don't have your own money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's problem he is actually broke. He thinks about all his in terms of his family's money because he doesn't have any of his own money that he can decide how he wants to spend. He's basically a trust fund brat.

I think you have it backwards. She's broke. She doesn't have a job, and owes debt to her father. He has a job and didn't say he has debt.

OP said it himself that he feels like his extended family is subsidizing, because he doesn't have enough of his own money. Imagine being an adult and fretting about a dinner out because you don't have your own money.[/quotPP

I believe he said his family was subsidizing because they put him through undergraduate and medical school debt free, bought him a house, and he's already received some inheritance. He has money. No debt. He's believes paying his share of a vacation or meal with his in-laws, using his salary, is using money he has only because his parents have contributed so much. He could be the one with huge educational debt instead of his wife, but for the fact his parents paid for him. He can only afford to go on these vacations because he doesn't have to pay student loans ( or mortgage?) out of his salary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's problem he is actually broke. He thinks about all his in terms of his family's money because he doesn't have any of his own money that he can decide how he wants to spend. He's basically a trust fund brat.

I think you have it backwards. She's broke. She doesn't have a job, and owes debt to her father. He has a job and didn't say he has debt.

OP said it himself that he feels like his extended family is subsidizing, because he doesn't have enough of his own money. Imagine being an adult and fretting about a dinner out because you don't have your own money.

I believe he said his family was subsidizing because they put him through undergraduate and medical school debt free, bought him a house, and he's already received some inheritance. He has money. No debt. He's believes paying his share of a vacation or meal with his in-laws, using his salary, is using money he has only because his parents have contributed so much. He could be the one with huge educational debt instead of his wife, but for the fact his parents paid for him. He can only afford to go on these vacations because he doesn't have to pay student loans ( or mortgage?) out of his salary.

That's how money works. When you use it for one thing you have less for another. If he doesn't want to go on vacation then he can just say no but he's so used to having all his bills paid by parents it's uncomfortable to have to open that wallet once in awhile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's problem he is actually broke. He thinks about all his in terms of his family's money because he doesn't have any of his own money that he can decide how he wants to spend. He's basically a trust fund brat.

I think you have it backwards. She's broke. She doesn't have a job, and owes debt to her father. He has a job and didn't say he has debt.

OP said it himself that he feels like his extended family is subsidizing, because he doesn't have enough of his own money. Imagine being an adult and fretting about a dinner out because you don't have your own money.

I believe he said his family was subsidizing because they put him through undergraduate and medical school debt free, bought him a house, and he's already received some inheritance. He has money. No debt. He's believes paying his share of a vacation or meal with his in-laws, using his salary, is using money he has only because his parents have contributed so much. He could be the one with huge educational debt instead of his wife, but for the fact his parents paid for him. He can only afford to go on these vacations because he doesn't have to pay student loans ( or mortgage?) out of his salary.

That's how money works. When you use it for one thing you have less for another. If he doesn't want to go on vacation then he can just say no but he's so used to having all his bills paid by parents it's uncomfortable to have to open that wallet once in awhile.

I agree OP doesn't have to do these things. OP says wife feels caught in the middle. My best guess is OP resents paying for these vacations rather than saving the money to pay it forward. But that's just a guess.

Completely agree with PP calling out different value systems between families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's problem he is actually broke. He thinks about all his in terms of his family's money because he doesn't have any of his own money that he can decide how he wants to spend. He's basically a trust fund brat.

I think you have it backwards. She's broke. She doesn't have a job, and owes debt to her father. He has a job and didn't say he has debt.

OP said it himself that he feels like his extended family is subsidizing, because he doesn't have enough of his own money. Imagine being an adult and fretting about a dinner out because you don't have your own money.

That doesn't negate that his wife is broke. Stay on topic please.