Tension with Wife's Family over Finances

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You told your father-in-law that your wife wouldn’t be paying back a family loan? No wonder he’s pissed.

OP here. She would not be paying it back with marital income. Since she is now back in school and not earning income that means that I would not be making payments on it with my income.

That’s not how debt works. Jesus, I would hate you too.

[Anonymous]

Wife needs to have a conversation about when and how she will repay her parents

When they suggest a vacation you don’t want to pay for, say no or suggest an alternative

Separate checks at restaurants

Well, that’s what I would do, but you need to get on the same page with your wife

[Anonymous]

You are very lucky that your family has helped you out by paying for your education and also pays for the vacations and your home. Most families are not like that and it's likely very rare. In many families, the parents want to join in on their adult children's vacations, who then pay. I disagree that you subsidize your FIL when you go 50/50. You pay for your share, like when you go with other adults. Since you seem to be high-earning yourself, your FIL doesn't want to pay for you and your family (essentially subsidize you). Normally once one is an adult, one pays for themselves. However, if you don't like that, you don't have to go, just like you wouldn't go if your friend invited you to a very expensive restaurant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are wealthy and entitled.

OP here. I disagree, entitlement has a connotation of taking without wanting to reciprocate. I always help my family without question. My FIL would like to take from me/my family and not give back. From my view he is the entitled one.

He’s not taking money from you. You pay your share as a grown up and when you married your wife you knew of the obligations and you pay it. Your family wealth is not yours. Grow up, get a job and pay your way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You told your father-in-law that your wife wouldn’t be paying back a family loan? No wonder he’s pissed.

OP here. She would not be paying it back with marital income. Since she is now back in school and not earning income that means that I would not be making payments on it with my income.

That’s not how debt works. Jesus, I would hate you too.

Yes, did you also inform the mortgage company, car payment place, and credit card that you would cease making payments after marriage? I hate to say it, but you sound like a dick.

“We shouldn’t split the bill because you ordered something more expensive than me?” You are not some poor 21 year old. When you are established and well off, you don’t complain about splitting restaurant bills, it is pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are wealthy and entitled.

OP here. I disagree, entitlement has a connotation of taking without wanting to reciprocate. I always help my family without question. My FIL would like to take from me/my family and not give back. From my view he is the entitled one.

Nothing you said indicates that’s true.

In fact, quite the opposite!

You’re a lousy husband and you sound exhausting to be around. I suspect you may have some mental illness/personality disorder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

- He had her take out "loans" from him informally for college and a graduate degree. He was ticked off at me once I informed him the payments on these "loans" would come to an end once our marriage took place.

- He and my MIL invite us on very expensive vacations and then expect us to cover our own cost which can be in the tens of thousands of dollars for some of the trips he likes.

- Similar situation with restaurants. He will propose an expensive restaurant, order expensive items, and then want to split the check 50/50.

I cut down OP's post above to the examples.

OP, your FIL has a pay-as-you-go approach to life. He wants his kids to be responsible for their own choices but he is still generous enough to advance funds for your wife to do the schooling she wants to do.

You don't say if he has a sexist view of the world where a man/husband is responsible for his wife's money/debt/support but not the other way around. That may complicate things.

I agree that you do not have to pay your FIL for your wife's debts to him. Presumably she plans to work after getting the degree. And perhaps you are carrying the household expenses while she studies. Although maritally you may be jointly responsible for her debts legally, I think ethically she both undertook the obligation and should be prepared to pay it back. Have her settle the repayment plan on her parental loans with her parents and have the payments begin when she starts to earn money. Her dad wants to teach her responsibility. Marrying you so you could pay them off was not likely her plan. Have her figure it out.

Next the vacation. You and your wife should pay your own way if you go. If you do not want to go and do not want to pay, skip the vacation. Norms differ. Only some parents treat. Tell your FIL that your family of origin treats and you are not placing a priority on expensive vacations with your own money because you have x, y, z other goals. Let them get mad.

Restaurants. Split the check. It's another case of different norms. Neither party is more correct. Surely you can afford to socialize with them some of the time.

Your in-laws should be glad to have a son-in-law with zero debt. You should agree to do some things with them even if they aren't "worth it". Those are the concessions you make to be part of an in-law family. You cannot have everything your preferred way.

Sounds like your wife needs to step up her earning to stay in good grades with her family of origin. Encourage her to have a plan. If she decides to be an overexcited SAHM and wants to pay her dad back, you'd best get that hashed out ASAP.

OP here. The not paying the "loan" is a settled topic. There was no formal loan document. The "loan" was an absurd issue in my opinion. Due to her family's financial position she was a full pay student. She attended a private OOS school to the tune of over $200,000. The degree which she is currently pursuing (which I am paying for) is not a highly paid field and my wife will likely be doing a fair amount of charity work. I'm sorry, but the notion that her parents think its reasonable to try and saddle an 18 y/o with such a loan for a low paying degree at a private school is ridiculous and consequently they are the ones who paid after I came on the scene. This non-repayment though is such a miniscule percentage of their net worth that it did not make a difference in their circumstances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

- He had her take out "loans" from him informally for college and a graduate degree. He was ticked off at me once I informed him the payments on these "loans" would come to an end once our marriage took place.

- He and my MIL invite us on very expensive vacations and then expect us to cover our own cost which can be in the tens of thousands of dollars for some of the trips he likes.

- Similar situation with restaurants. He will propose an expensive restaurant, order expensive items, and then want to split the check 50/50.

I cut down OP's post above to the examples.

OP, your FIL has a pay-as-you-go approach to life. He wants his kids to be responsible for their own choices but he is still generous enough to advance funds for your wife to do the schooling she wants to do.

You don't say if he has a sexist view of the world where a man/husband is responsible for his wife's money/debt/support but not the other way around. That may complicate things.

I agree that you do not have to pay your FIL for your wife's debts to him. Presumably she plans to work after getting the degree. And perhaps you are carrying the household expenses while she studies. Although maritally you may be jointly responsible for her debts legally, I think ethically she both undertook the obligation and should be prepared to pay it back. Have her settle the repayment plan on her parental loans with her parents and have the payments begin when she starts to earn money. Her dad wants to teach her responsibility. Marrying you so you could pay them off was not likely her plan. Have her figure it out.

Next the vacation. You and your wife should pay your own way if you go. If you do not want to go and do not want to pay, skip the vacation. Norms differ. Only some parents treat. Tell your FIL that your family of origin treats and you are not placing a priority on expensive vacations with your own money because you have x, y, z other goals. Let them get mad.

Restaurants. Split the check. It's another case of different norms. Neither party is more correct. Surely you can afford to socialize with them some of the time.

Your in-laws should be glad to have a son-in-law with zero debt. You should agree to do some things with them even if they aren't "worth it". Those are the concessions you make to be part of an in-law family. You cannot have everything your preferred way.

Sounds like your wife needs to step up her earning to stay in good grades with her family of origin. Encourage her to have a plan. If she decides to be an overexcited SAHM and wants to pay her dad back, you'd best get that hashed out ASAP.

OP here. The not paying the "loan" is a settled topic. There was no formal loan document. The "loan" was an absurd issue in my opinion. Due to her family's financial position she was a full pay student. She attended a private OOS school to the tune of over $200,000. The degree which she is currently pursuing (which I am paying for) is not a highly paid field and my wife will likely be doing a fair amount of charity work. I'm sorry, but the notion that her parents think its reasonable to try and saddle an 18 y/o with such a loan for a low paying degree at a private school is ridiculous and consequently they are the ones who paid after I came on the scene. This non-repayment though is such a miniscule percentage of their net worth that it did not make a difference in their circumstances.

But this was not your decision to make. Your wife had an agreement with her parents before you ever came onto the scene and you have no right to unilaterally decide she doesn’t have to uphold her end of that agreement. You sound incredibly controlling of your wife and it’s clear you feel entitled to continue to make these types of decisions for her because you will always outearn her and right now are supporting her. That’s the real problem not anything to do with your in laws.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

- He had her take out "loans" from him informally for college and a graduate degree. He was ticked off at me once I informed him the payments on these "loans" would come to an end once our marriage took place.

- He and my MIL invite us on very expensive vacations and then expect us to cover our own cost which can be in the tens of thousands of dollars for some of the trips he likes.

- Similar situation with restaurants. He will propose an expensive restaurant, order expensive items, and then want to split the check 50/50.

I cut down OP's post above to the examples.

OP, your FIL has a pay-as-you-go approach to life. He wants his kids to be responsible for their own choices but he is still generous enough to advance funds for your wife to do the schooling she wants to do.

You don't say if he has a sexist view of the world where a man/husband is responsible for his wife's money/debt/support but not the other way around. That may complicate things.

I agree that you do not have to pay your FIL for your wife's debts to him. Presumably she plans to work after getting the degree. And perhaps you are carrying the household expenses while she studies. Although maritally you may be jointly responsible for her debts legally, I think ethically she both undertook the obligation and should be prepared to pay it back. Have her settle the repayment plan on her parental loans with her parents and have the payments begin when she starts to earn money. Her dad wants to teach her responsibility. Marrying you so you could pay them off was not likely her plan. Have her figure it out.

Next the vacation. You and your wife should pay your own way if you go. If you do not want to go and do not want to pay, skip the vacation. Norms differ. Only some parents treat. Tell your FIL that your family of origin treats and you are not placing a priority on expensive vacations with your own money because you have x, y, z other goals. Let them get mad.

Restaurants. Split the check. It's another case of different norms. Neither party is more correct. Surely you can afford to socialize with them some of the time.

Your in-laws should be glad to have a son-in-law with zero debt. You should agree to do some things with them even if they aren't "worth it". Those are the concessions you make to be part of an in-law family. You cannot have everything your preferred way.

Sounds like your wife needs to step up her earning to stay in good grades with her family of origin. Encourage her to have a plan. If she decides to be an overexcited SAHM and wants to pay her dad back, you'd best get that hashed out ASAP.

OP here. The not paying the "loan" is a settled topic. There was no formal loan document. The "loan" was an absurd issue in my opinion. Due to her family's financial position she was a full pay student. She attended a private OOS school to the tune of over $200,000. The degree which she is currently pursuing (which I am paying for) is not a highly paid field and my wife will likely be doing a fair amount of charity work. I'm sorry, but the notion that her parents think its reasonable to try and saddle an 18 y/o with such a loan for a low paying degree at a private school is ridiculous and consequently they are the ones who paid after I came on the scene. This non-repayment though is such a miniscule percentage of their net worth that it did not make a difference in their circumstances.

It sounds like the "loan" was poorly handled by the parents. If they didn't want to pay for college or only wanted to pay a set amount, they should have said that so your wife could have taken out actual loans herself, chose somewhere more affordable, or persued a more lucrative career to enable her to pay them back. And they should have at the very least drawn up a formal repayment plan when she was 18 so she'd understand what she was commiting to. Just sounds like poor parental guidance all around.

Vacations and restaurants are on you- if you don't want to go somewhere, just say no and let them get mad. "Sorry Bob, that's not in the budget this year. Would be happy to meet you at X intsead." Rinse and repeat. Our families are similar in that DH's parents usually treat for stuff they plan/invite us to while my family goes Dutch. The difference is that my parents do not have a lot of money so they never suggest anywhere expensive to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

- He had her take out "loans" from him informally for college and a graduate degree. He was ticked off at me once I informed him the payments on these "loans" would come to an end once our marriage took place.

- He and my MIL invite us on very expensive vacations and then expect us to cover our own cost which can be in the tens of thousands of dollars for some of the trips he likes.

- Similar situation with restaurants. He will propose an expensive restaurant, order expensive items, and then want to split the check 50/50.

I cut down OP's post above to the examples.

OP, your FIL has a pay-as-you-go approach to life. He wants his kids to be responsible for their own choices but he is still generous enough to advance funds for your wife to do the schooling she wants to do.

You don't say if he has a sexist view of the world where a man/husband is responsible for his wife's money/debt/support but not the other way around. That may complicate things.

I agree that you do not have to pay your FIL for your wife's debts to him. Presumably she plans to work after getting the degree. And perhaps you are carrying the household expenses while she studies. Although maritally you may be jointly responsible for her debts legally, I think ethically she both undertook the obligation and should be prepared to pay it back. Have her settle the repayment plan on her parental loans with her parents and have the payments begin when she starts to earn money. Her dad wants to teach her responsibility. Marrying you so you could pay them off was not likely her plan. Have her figure it out.

Next the vacation. You and your wife should pay your own way if you go. If you do not want to go and do not want to pay, skip the vacation. Norms differ. Only some parents treat. Tell your FIL that your family of origin treats and you are not placing a priority on expensive vacations with your own money because you have x, y, z other goals. Let them get mad.

Restaurants. Split the check. It's another case of different norms. Neither party is more correct. Surely you can afford to socialize with them some of the time.

Your in-laws should be glad to have a son-in-law with zero debt. You should agree to do some things with them even if they aren't "worth it". Those are the concessions you make to be part of an in-law family. You cannot have everything your preferred way.

Sounds like your wife needs to step up her earning to stay in good grades with her family of origin. Encourage her to have a plan. If she decides to be an overexcited SAHM and wants to pay her dad back, you'd best get that hashed out ASAP.

OP here. The not paying the "loan" is a settled topic. There was no formal loan document. The "loan" was an absurd issue in my opinion. Due to her family's financial position she was a full pay student. She attended a private OOS school to the tune of over $200,000. The degree which she is currently pursuing (which I am paying for) is not a highly paid field and my wife will likely be doing a fair amount of charity work. I'm sorry, but the notion that her parents think its reasonable to try and saddle an 18 y/o with such a loan for a low paying degree at a private school is ridiculous and consequently they are the ones who paid after I came on the scene. This non-repayment though is such a miniscule percentage of their net worth that it did not make a difference in their circumstances.

But this was not your decision to make. Your wife had an agreement with her parents before you ever came onto the scene and you have no right to unilaterally decide she doesn’t have to uphold her end of that agreement. You sound incredibly controlling of your wife and it’s clear you feel entitled to continue to make these types of decisions for her because you will always outearn her and right now are supporting her. That’s the real problem not anything to do with your in laws.

It doesn't sound like the wife has money to pay them back. I agree it should be between the wife and her parents but it sounds like the parents are coming to the OP for the money. If the parents need the money wife should get a job to pay them back rather than another degree and charity work. All these supposedly wealthy people yet little financial literacy! I had student loans and never expected my DH to pay my loans- in fact I tried really hard to get the loans paid off before we got married so it wouldn't bog us down financially.

[Anonymous]

So all the money goes to the leeching elders on your side? And your wife’s debts get ignored? Great family values.

[Anonymous]

You are the worst person.

[Anonymous]

If you all are so rich, how is going 50/50 in any restaurant that exists too much?
And as a doctor, how do you even have time to trips that cost tens of thousands of dollars.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My wife and I are both from successful families, but they have very different mindsets in terms of legacy, finances, and the like. I am from a family of physicians that since my grandfather has valued leaving a legacy and paying it forward to future generations. I had my undergraduate, medical, school, and first home paid for. I also will receive/have already received a very generous inheritance. I pay this forward by helping older relatives with managing their affairs (healthcare, finances, housing, etc.) and by helping younger cousins and nieces/nephews obtain prestigious internships, research, and the like. Our family has a collective mindset when it comes to success and resources and I look forward to carrying this forward with my own children.

-

My wife's family despite similar if not greater wealth does things very differently. Her father started a highly successful blue collar business which has made far more than I think anyone anticipated. I will include some examples of irritating behavior that he has done:

- He had her take out "loans" from him informally for college and a graduate degree. He was ticked off at me once I informed him the payments on these "loans" would come to an end once our marriage took place.

- He and my MIL invite us on very expensive vacations and then expect us to cover our own cost which can be in the tens of thousands of dollars for some of the trips he likes. They complain if we do not go. I feel annoyed about paying for this as I feel it is essentially my parents/grandparents subsidizing him because they paid for my medical school which is the only reason I can afford to pay for these trips. The older generation in my family always covers vacation expenses.

- Similar situation with restaurants. He will propose an expensive restaurant, order expensive items, and then want to split the check 50/50. Again, I feel my family is subsidizing him so now I really try to get us to go to cheap places if we are dining with them.

-

Unfortunately, this different mindset is causing quite a bit of tension and I am not sure how to approach delicately. My wife feels stuck in the middle and I know it would be unproductive to tell my FIL that his cheap ways essentially mean my family wealth is being used to subsidize him.

There is significant problems with your position on the bolded text above. 1) you don’t have any right to tell your FIL that your wife will not be paying back her loan, 2) you are paying your share of the trip not his. If you don’t want to go don’t go but realize your driving a wedge between yourself, your wife and her family 3) splitting a check with your in-laws is perfectly reasonable you can skip it entirely, let your wife go without you or go less frequently 4) your family is nit in any way subsidizing anything you are paying for you and your wife (your family subsidized you) 5) you are the cheap one because you take the position that you are owed and they don’t owe you anything 6) seems like your wife doesn’t work because you don’t give the impression that the money used to pay the expense is also hers

[Anonymous]

You need to let it go.

I had a similar issue where my parents paid for college, car, wedding and downpayment on a house. In-laws saddled dh with 80k in student loans, including a few parent plus loans we paid for them that didn’t even have his name on it. I paid off all the loans very quickly in full once we married. Despite both sides being retired with >10m, we pay our own way on every vacation and split all dinners.

I would be upset if someone ordered up the dinner bill. I’d ask for my own family’s check and he can pay his own. I’d also just not go on fancy vacations that I don’t want.

I bet a lot of this stems from him not being into education. My in-laws are very against universities.