Tension with Wife's Family over Finances

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blue collar boomers assume all physicians are very wealthy. FIL sees his SIL as having deep pockets and being blue collar expects the deep pocket guy to pay. It’s a scarcity mindset. Even though FIL has unexpectedly made a lot of money, he doesn’t want to share it and he wants others to give him more money. Generational wealth building is something very foreign to him. FIL would probably also love to get his fingers into some of the OPs parents’ money.

FIL may also lose his money or not be as solidly wealthy as he lets on. If he is a tradesman who became a contractor, he could very well blow up at some point. Real estate developers who can come from blue or white collar backgrounds often skate between being worth millions and being bankrupt. If he’s built a successful plumbing or HVAC company and sells to PE he could make a lot but then invests it poorly with a developer friend where he could lose it.

OP is wealthy.

So is FIL.

Everyone is mocking the wife's usless degree as a probable justification for why her father wants her to pay the money back but did OP even say what the degree was? Because relative to his career as a physician I'm sure everything seems low paying.

Regardless of what the undergrad degree is in, by OP's admission, she is going to get a masters in an area that is low pay. So, she is making one bad decision after another knowing that she would not be able to pay her father back like she promised she would.

OP is an elitist who thinks how he uses his wealth is the right way (look at me, aren't I great for helping my extended family), and the FIL is a tightwad a$$ (who made his wealth rather than inherited it) for expecting his daughter to pay back money she agreed to.

OP's wife is kind of an idiot and a leech for expecting the men in her life to keep subsidizing her so she can do whatever she wants. If she weren't married to a rich man, how would she pay back the loan and get a masters in a low paying field?

FIL is a bit harsh, but he built his wealth by himself and knows how hard it is to make that money. IMO, him letting his daughter pay back the loan with no interest and no maturity date signals to me that this isn't about money but about teaching his adult daughter the value of money and the consequences of her choices. Seems to me that she has yet to learn that lesson.

As for the expensive dinners and trips, OP can say no, but why should FIL subsidize OP's choice in using his wealth to help his extended family members (while kind), and then OP turns around and says to the FIL that they will no longer be paying the debt owed.

OP here. I am not providing financial help to my family. They do not need it. I have obtained prestigious research internships and gotten their names on publications for when they apply to medical school. I also help elderly family members with managing their affairs - I work 0.8 FTE to make time for this.

I don’t consider my wife’s degree useless. I encouraged her to go back school and if she wants to stay at home after school I am happy with that as well.

Ultimately, I find my FIL’s stinginess embarrassing. He has a mid eight figure net worth and is still a poor tipper. He will gobble up all the bread at the table. In my family we are generous with our time, money, and other resources. FIL has the opposite mindset. If he were less fortunate I would happily pay for his dinner and vacation. I paid for the last semester of college for a friend who is in a tough spot so I consider myself very charitable. But, a wealthy old man who is stingy with their own family and the less fortunate will never receive money from me.

You know, maybe he does far more for people than you've ever dreamed of, but doesn't require the accolades that you do. That would make him a far better man than you any day of the week and twice on Sundays

X infinity

[Anonymous]

OP, are you Indian?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blue collar boomers assume all physicians are very wealthy. FIL sees his SIL as having deep pockets and being blue collar expects the deep pocket guy to pay. It’s a scarcity mindset. Even though FIL has unexpectedly made a lot of money, he doesn’t want to share it and he wants others to give him more money. Generational wealth building is something very foreign to him. FIL would probably also love to get his fingers into some of the OPs parents’ money.

FIL may also lose his money or not be as solidly wealthy as he lets on. If he is a tradesman who became a contractor, he could very well blow up at some point. Real estate developers who can come from blue or white collar backgrounds often skate between being worth millions and being bankrupt. If he’s built a successful plumbing or HVAC company and sells to PE he could make a lot but then invests it poorly with a developer friend where he could lose it.

OP is wealthy.

So is FIL.

Everyone is mocking the wife's usless degree as a probable justification for why her father wants her to pay the money back but did OP even say what the degree was? Because relative to his career as a physician I'm sure everything seems low paying.

Regardless of what the undergrad degree is in, by OP's admission, she is going to get a masters in an area that is low pay. So, she is making one bad decision after another knowing that she would not be able to pay her father back like she promised she would.

OP is an elitist who thinks how he uses his wealth is the right way (look at me, aren't I great for helping my extended family), and the FIL is a tightwad a$$ (who made his wealth rather than inherited it) for expecting his daughter to pay back money she agreed to.

OP's wife is kind of an idiot and a leech for expecting the men in her life to keep subsidizing her so she can do whatever she wants. If she weren't married to a rich man, how would she pay back the loan and get a masters in a low paying field?

FIL is a bit harsh, but he built his wealth by himself and knows how hard it is to make that money. IMO, him letting his daughter pay back the loan with no interest and no maturity date signals to me that this isn't about money but about teaching his adult daughter the value of money and the consequences of her choices. Seems to me that she has yet to learn that lesson.

As for the expensive dinners and trips, OP can say no, but why should FIL subsidize OP's choice in using his wealth to help his extended family members (while kind), and then OP turns around and says to the FIL that they will no longer be paying the debt owed.

OP here. I am not providing financial help to my family. They do not need it. I have obtained prestigious research internships and gotten their names on publications for when they apply to medical school. I also help elderly family members with managing their affairs - I work 0.8 FTE to make time for this.

I don’t consider my wife’s degree useless. I encouraged her to go back school and if she wants to stay at home after school I am happy with that as well.

Ultimately, I find my FIL’s stinginess embarrassing. He has a mid eight figure net worth and is still a poor tipper. He will gobble up all the bread at the table. In my family we are generous with our time, money, and other resources. FIL has the opposite mindset. If he were less fortunate I would happily pay for his dinner and vacation. I paid for the last semester of college for a friend who is in a tough spot so I consider myself very charitable. But, a wealthy old man who is stingy with their own family and the less fortunate will never receive money from me.

You know, maybe he does far more for people than you've ever dreamed of, but doesn't require the accolades that you do. That would make him a far better man than you any day of the week and twice on Sundays

X infinity

Now you guys are just inventing things...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You sound like a baby. Figure out your boundaries and communicate them.

Such a baby and so entitled. I don’t care what your father in law charges you, you are still spending someone ELSE’S money with your old a$$.

[Anonymous]

I get that he is cheap, but you are oddly cheap too. You are being subsidized. Own that. Is that why you are cheap about subsidizing others?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I get that he is cheap, but you are oddly cheap too. You are being subsidized. Own that. Is that why you are cheap about subsidizing others?

It seems like he is fine subsidizing his immediate blood relatives and/or people who need the money, not already wealthy ILs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, are you Indian?

I was also thinking the same, that OP is Indian.

[Anonymous]

I can understand not wanting to pay in laws for wife’s loans. That is one thing but I don’t get the part where if you pay for your own family, OP thinks he is subsidizing the in laws. If they made OP pay for them, that is one thing but they want to split the bill.

DH is a surgeon and we know many physicians with various income and debt. I actually kind of feel sorry for the ones whose wives come from money and in laws dictate a lot in their family as they are the ones paying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that he is cheap, but you are oddly cheap too. You are being subsidized. Own that. Is that why you are cheap about subsidizing others?

It seems like he is fine subsidizing his immediate blood relatives and/or people who need the money, not already wealthy ILs.

Nobody is subsidizing anyone if you pay for your own expenses! You subsidize someone if you pay for someone ELSE's expenses. It doesn't matter if that someone else is wealthy or not, it makes no difference. In fact the OP is demanding that the in-laws subsidize HIM and absurdly feels entitled to it. Maybe his expenses have always been paid, like for a child, and he has never realized he's now a married adult? Imagine this guy ends up having kids! Who'll be paying for their expenses? Grandparents? Government?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that he is cheap, but you are oddly cheap too. You are being subsidized. Own that. Is that why you are cheap about subsidizing others?

It seems like he is fine subsidizing his immediate blood relatives and/or people who need the money, not already wealthy ILs.

Nobody is subsidizing anyone if you pay for your own expenses! You subsidize someone if you pay for someone ELSE's expenses. It doesn't matter if that someone else is wealthy or not, it makes no difference. In fact the OP is demanding that the in-laws subsidize HIM and absurdly feels entitled to it. Maybe his expenses have always been paid, like for a child, and he has never realized he's now a married adult? Imagine this guy ends up having kids! Who'll be paying for their expenses? Grandparents? Government?

I mean the informal college "loan" that the ILs are now asking son-in-law to pay back is pretty weird. Maybe they aren't as rich as they let on and couldn't afford college after all?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that he is cheap, but you are oddly cheap too. You are being subsidized. Own that. Is that why you are cheap about subsidizing others?

It seems like he is fine subsidizing his immediate blood relatives and/or people who need the money, not already wealthy ILs.

Nobody is subsidizing anyone if you pay for your own expenses! You subsidize someone if you pay for someone ELSE's expenses. It doesn't matter if that someone else is wealthy or not, it makes no difference. In fact the OP is demanding that the in-laws subsidize HIM and absurdly feels entitled to it. Maybe his expenses have always been paid, like for a child, and he has never realized he's now a married adult? Imagine this guy ends up having kids! Who'll be paying for their expenses? Grandparents? Government?

I mean the informal college "loan" that the ILs are now asking son-in-law to pay back is pretty weird. Maybe they aren't as rich as they let on and couldn't afford college after all?

They are not asking their son-in-law to pay back, they're asking their daughter and presumably they had some kind of agreement. Women are nowadays responsible for their own finances. Whatever you have before marriage (assets, loans) are your responsibility. Even in community property states, debt incurred before marriage remains separate. So it's not for the OP to decide! Even informal loans are legally binding if there's evidence of payment, text messages or such.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My wife and I are both from successful families, but they have very different mindsets in terms of legacy, finances, and the like. I am from a family of physicians that since my grandfather has valued leaving a legacy and paying it forward to future generations. I had my undergraduate, medical, school, and first home paid for. I also will receive/have already received a very generous inheritance. I pay this forward by helping older relatives with managing their affairs (healthcare, finances, housing, etc.) and by helping younger cousins and nieces/nephews obtain prestigious internships, research, and the like. Our family has a collective mindset when it comes to success and resources and I look forward to carrying this forward with my own children.

-

My wife's family despite similar if not greater wealth does things very differently. Her father started a highly successful blue collar business which has made far more than I think anyone anticipated. I will include some examples of irritating behavior that he has done:

- He had her take out "loans" from him informally for college and a graduate degree. He was ticked off at me once I informed him the payments on these "loans" would come to an end once our marriage took place.

- He and my MIL invite us on very expensive vacations and then expect us to cover our own cost which can be in the tens of thousands of dollars for some of the trips he likes. They complain if we do not go. I feel annoyed about paying for this as I feel it is essentially my parents/grandparents subsidizing him because they paid for my medical school which is the only reason I can afford to pay for these trips. The older generation in my family always covers vacation expenses.

- Similar situation with restaurants. He will propose an expensive restaurant, order expensive items, and then want to split the check 50/50. Again, I feel my family is subsidizing him so now I really try to get us to go to cheap places if we are dining with them.

-

Unfortunately, this different mindset is causing quite a bit of tension and I am not sure how to approach delicately. My wife feels stuck in the middle and I know it would be unproductive to tell my FIL that his cheap ways essentially mean my family wealth is being used to subsidize him.

You and your wife are paying for your elderly relatives and managing their affairs plus paying for your nieces and nephews big ticket items?

You must have a $hit-ton of time and money on your hands.

And that’s not paying it forward. That’s paying it backwards and sideways and out the door.

You are the unconventional one. Not the family that gives loans not big cash or who splits meals out.

[Anonymous]

My parents gave us “loans” for our first car instead of gifting the whole thing. Makes you plan and think what the real value is to you. Giving people $10k-$200k of gifts doesn’t have that thought process in either party.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that he is cheap, but you are oddly cheap too. You are being subsidized. Own that. Is that why you are cheap about subsidizing others?

It seems like he is fine subsidizing his immediate blood relatives and/or people who need the money, not already wealthy ILs.

Nobody is subsidizing anyone if you pay for your own expenses! You subsidize someone if you pay for someone ELSE's expenses. It doesn't matter if that someone else is wealthy or not, it makes no difference. In fact the OP is demanding that the in-laws subsidize HIM and absurdly feels entitled to it. Maybe his expenses have always been paid, like for a child, and he has never realized he's now a married adult? Imagine this guy ends up having kids! Who'll be paying for their expenses? Grandparents? Government?

Op sounds like a troll.

If not they’re from some emerging market culture where there are no real capital markets or legal docs with recourse so Family Money gets pressured to fund every cousin’s and auntie’s house, wedding, education, etc.

Fun times.

Thank goodness they live in America where the roads are paved with gold.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blue collar boomers assume all physicians are very wealthy. FIL sees his SIL as having deep pockets and being blue collar expects the deep pocket guy to pay. It’s a scarcity mindset. Even though FIL has unexpectedly made a lot of money, he doesn’t want to share it and he wants others to give him more money. Generational wealth building is something very foreign to him. FIL would probably also love to get his fingers into some of the OPs parents’ money.

FIL may also lose his money or not be as solidly wealthy as he lets on. If he is a tradesman who became a contractor, he could very well blow up at some point. Real estate developers who can come from blue or white collar backgrounds often skate between being worth millions and being bankrupt. If he’s built a successful plumbing or HVAC company and sells to PE he could make a lot but then invests it poorly with a developer friend where he could lose it.

OP is wealthy.

So is FIL.

Everyone is mocking the wife's usless degree as a probable justification for why her father wants her to pay the money back but did OP even say what the degree was? Because relative to his career as a physician I'm sure everything seems low paying.

Regardless of what the undergrad degree is in, by OP's admission, she is going to get a masters in an area that is low pay. So, she is making one bad decision after another knowing that she would not be able to pay her father back like she promised she would.

OP is an elitist who thinks how he uses his wealth is the right way (look at me, aren't I great for helping my extended family), and the FIL is a tightwad a$$ (who made his wealth rather than inherited it) for expecting his daughter to pay back money she agreed to.

OP's wife is kind of an idiot and a leech for expecting the men in her life to keep subsidizing her so she can do whatever she wants. If she weren't married to a rich man, how would she pay back the loan and get a masters in a low paying field?

FIL is a bit harsh, but he built his wealth by himself and knows how hard it is to make that money. IMO, him letting his daughter pay back the loan with no interest and no maturity date signals to me that this isn't about money but about teaching his adult daughter the value of money and the consequences of her choices. Seems to me that she has yet to learn that lesson.

As for the expensive dinners and trips, OP can say no, but why should FIL subsidize OP's choice in using his wealth to help his extended family members (while kind), and then OP turns around and says to the FIL that they will no longer be paying the debt owed.

OP here. I am not providing financial help to my family. They do not need it. I have obtained prestigious research internships and gotten their names on publications for when they apply to medical school. I also help elderly family members with managing their affairs - I work 0.8 FTE to make time for this.

I don’t consider my wife’s degree useless. I encouraged her to go back school and if she wants to stay at home after school I am happy with that as well.

Ultimately, I find my FIL’s stinginess embarrassing. He has a mid eight figure net worth and is still a poor tipper. He will gobble up all the bread at the table. In my family we are generous with our time, money, and other resources. FIL has the opposite mindset. If he were less fortunate I would happily pay for his dinner and vacation. I paid for the last semester of college for a friend who is in a tough spot so I consider myself very charitable. But, a wealthy old man who is stingy with their own family and the less fortunate will never receive money from me.

You know, maybe he does far more for people than you've ever dreamed of, but doesn't require the accolades that you do. That would make him a far better man than you any day of the week and twice on Sundays

X infinity

Now you guys are just inventing things...

Agree

It's a long thread. Based on what OP wrote in original post and subsequent comments:

OP is white
OP doesn't give money to anyone in his family
OP doesn't want to vacation or eat out with in-laws. Wife does.
OP can afford these unwanted vacations because OP'S parents paid for their education, including med school, and bought OP a house.
Wealthy in-laws expect wife to pay back her tuition that FIL paid out of pocket.
OP refuses to pay that loan out of marital funds.