Tension with Wife's Family over Finances

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP's problem he is actually broke. He thinks about all his in terms of his family's money because he doesn't have any of his own money that he can decide how he wants to spend. He's basically a trust fund brat.

I think you have it backwards. She's broke. She doesn't have a job, and owes debt to her father. He has a job and didn't say he has debt.

OP said it himself that he feels like his extended family is subsidizing, because he doesn't have enough of his own money. Imagine being an adult and fretting about a dinner out because you don't have your own money.

I believe he said his family was subsidizing because they put him through undergraduate and medical school debt free, bought him a house, and he's already received some inheritance. He has money. No debt. He's believes paying his share of a vacation or meal with his in-laws, using his salary, is using money he has only because his parents have contributed so much. He could be the one with huge educational debt instead of his wife, but for the fact his parents paid for him. He can only afford to go on these vacations because he doesn't have to pay student loans ( or mortgage?) out of his salary.

That's how money works. When you use it for one thing you have less for another. If he doesn't want to go on vacation then he can just say no but he's so used to having all his bills paid by parents it's uncomfortable to have to open that wallet once in awhile.

I agree OP doesn't have to do these things. OP says wife feels caught in the middle. My best guess is OP resents paying for these vacations rather than saving the money to pay it forward. But that's just a guess.

Completely agree with PP calling out different value systems between families.

Right. PP doesn't get it. Both families have wildly different priorities. He doesn't want to use the money so he can pass it down.

If that were the case, he would just decline to go on the vacation. Clearly he wants to go, he just doesn’t want to pay. It’s not enough to have hand outs from his own family, he wants them from his ILs too.

He said he was guilt-tripped if they didn't go. Reread the OP.

I'm sure these post would be so different if it was a woman.

So what if they were guilt tripped? Good grief grow a spine.

He has never had to develop a spine because he has had everything handed to him and hasn’t had to work hard for it.

Yeah, I’m sure his parents paid for a body double to get go to medical school for him. And, now some poor slave is working for his paycheck while he sits on the couch and eats bon bons! What an @ss!

Who worked for the money that paid for his education and his start in life? He did not. I’m sure he studied hard and spends time working as a doctor, but that is not the same as engaging in labor to pay for every single thing you have.

The FIL built his own business from the ground up, with no parental handouts. OP did not have to work for the money that paid for college and med school, and he’s not sure he’d ever be capable of that kind of work. Backbones are built by dealing with pressure and stress, not by having tuition money paid by mommy and daddy writing a check.

YES that is the point! OP WANTS this for his own children. How are ya’ll this stupid?! He LITERALLY says this in his OP. If he doesn’t have “a backbone” now, he will when his kid is in the same position as he is now, since you’re saying it was his parents who worked to fund him.

Say all you want about OP, but this is the dumbest angle/argument wrt his FIL!

I’m the PP who said OP can grow a backbone if he feels guilted into going on a vacation he doesn’t want to go on *because he would have to pay for it *. He only wants to go on free vacations from his family or have his FIL pay for them. He never says they are destinations he doesn’t want to go to or even his ILs are bad company. He just doesn’t want to pay. But he is not willing to say no because he knows how bad it looks, so he just quietly sulks and pouts that FIL should pay. If they couldn’t afford it or he really didn’t want to go he could just say sorry, not this year, since it sounds like his wife doesn’t get a say in how money is spent since he views her as fully dependent on him.

Many of us manage to say no thanks to vacations we don’t want to attend or can’t afford without the benefit of medical school, generational wealth or any of the other things that OP is used to thinking of making him so great.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP's problem he is actually broke. He thinks about all his in terms of his family's money because he doesn't have any of his own money that he can decide how he wants to spend. He's basically a trust fund brat.

I think you have it backwards. She's broke. She doesn't have a job, and owes debt to her father. He has a job and didn't say he has debt.

OP said it himself that he feels like his extended family is subsidizing, because he doesn't have enough of his own money. Imagine being an adult and fretting about a dinner out because you don't have your own money.

I believe he said his family was subsidizing because they put him through undergraduate and medical school debt free, bought him a house, and he's already received some inheritance. He has money. No debt. He's believes paying his share of a vacation or meal with his in-laws, using his salary, is using money he has only because his parents have contributed so much. He could be the one with huge educational debt instead of his wife, but for the fact his parents paid for him. He can only afford to go on these vacations because he doesn't have to pay student loans ( or mortgage?) out of his salary.

That's how money works. When you use it for one thing you have less for another. If he doesn't want to go on vacation then he can just say no but he's so used to having all his bills paid by parents it's uncomfortable to have to open that wallet once in awhile.

I agree OP doesn't have to do these things. OP says wife feels caught in the middle. My best guess is OP resents paying for these vacations rather than saving the money to pay it forward. But that's just a guess.

Completely agree with PP calling out different value systems between families.

Right. PP doesn't get it. Both families have wildly different priorities. He doesn't want to use the money so he can pass it down.

If that were the case, he would just decline to go on the vacation. Clearly he wants to go, he just doesn’t want to pay. It’s not enough to have hand outs from his own family, he wants them from his ILs too.

He said he was guilt-tripped if they didn't go. Reread the OP.

I'm sure these post would be so different if it was a woman.

So what if they were guilt tripped? Good grief grow a spine.

He has never had to develop a spine because he has had everything handed to him and hasn’t had to work hard for it.

Yeah, I’m sure his parents paid for a body double to get go to medical school for him. And, now some poor slave is working for his paycheck while he sits on the couch and eats bon bons! What an @ss!

Who worked for the money that paid for his education and his start in life? He did not. I’m sure he studied hard and spends time working as a doctor, but that is not the same as engaging in labor to pay for every single thing you have.

The FIL built his own business from the ground up, with no parental handouts. OP did not have to work for the money that paid for college and med school, and he’s not sure he’d ever be capable of that kind of work. Backbones are built by dealing with pressure and stress, not by having tuition money paid by mommy and daddy writing a check.

YES that is the point! OP WANTS this for his own children. How are ya’ll this stupid?! He LITERALLY says this in his OP. If he doesn’t have “a backbone” now, he will when his kid is in the same position as he is now, since you’re saying it was his parents who worked to fund him.

Say all you want about OP, but this is the dumbest angle/argument wrt his FIL!

Are you OP?

It sounds as though you have no understanding of the difference between working for everything you have, from the jump, and being handed everything to get a handsome start on life. It appears that you have no understanding of physical work, of worrying about how you’re going to pay for things. Character and resilience are built through dealing with difficulties. You ha ve never had to deal with the difficulty of worrying about where your money is coming from.

You will do your children no favors to give them everything they need to succeed. They could easily end up being adults who have no understanding or appreciation of what hard work actually is.

Are you valuing physical labor over mental labor?

Some self made men (like my husband) look back on the struggle and think: " damn, that was hard. I want better for my own kids. As long as they are working hard on their studies, I'm supporting them financially. I don't want them to struggle and worry. "

That doesn't mean we didn't require and teach the value of physical labor.

While there is some value in having done physical labor at least at some point in one’s life, the more important point is in being responsible for earning the money that allows one to succeed in life. One has a very different character-building experience when one has to work to pay at least part of one’s tuition bills.

I think OP realizes that he could not have hacked paying any of his own tuition when he was young because he recognizes inner abilities that his FIL has that he will never have. It makes him feel inadequate, so he dislikes his FIL. OP doesn’t necessarily understand that he feels this way, thus this thread calling out what he sees as how the FIL has wronged him.

How many 20yos have had the ability to pay their own tuition???

It’s sad that you think physicians are total slackers, which is nervy on a board filled with them.

OP was not a physician at age 20. Young adults can contribute to their own tuition by working part time jobs during the school year and working full time during summers.

People who have all their tuitions and costs paid for by others don’t really appreciate the work it takes to make that money. They enter adulthood with the experience of having everything they need and want paid for by others and they expect this happy experience to continue as they live their adult lives. This is a good explanation for why the OP expects his own family and even his wife’s family to pay for their vacations and restaurant meals.

Good grief , you have no clue how grueling med school and residency is compared to those salt of the earth blue collar jobs. The stress, intensity, no sleep, and stakes..ie you could kill someone just doesn’t compare.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's problem he is actually broke. He thinks about all his in terms of his family's money because he doesn't have any of his own money that he can decide how he wants to spend. He's basically a trust fund brat.

I think you have it backwards. She's broke. She doesn't have a job, and owes debt to her father. He has a job and didn't say he has debt.

OP said it himself that he feels like his extended family is subsidizing, because he doesn't have enough of his own money. Imagine being an adult and fretting about a dinner out because you don't have your own money.

I believe he said his family was subsidizing because they put him through undergraduate and medical school debt free, bought him a house, and he's already received some inheritance. He has money. No debt. He's believes paying his share of a vacation or meal with his in-laws, using his salary, is using money he has only because his parents have contributed so much. He could be the one with huge educational debt instead of his wife, but for the fact his parents paid for him. He can only afford to go on these vacations because he doesn't have to pay student loans ( or mortgage?) out of his salary.

That's how money works. When you use it for one thing you have less for another. If he doesn't want to go on vacation then he can just say no but he's so used to having all his bills paid by parents it's uncomfortable to have to open that wallet once in awhile.

I agree OP doesn't have to do these things. OP says wife feels caught in the middle. My best guess is OP resents paying for these vacations rather than saving the money to pay it forward. But that's just a guess.

Completely agree with PP calling out different value systems between families.

Right. PP doesn't get it. Both families have wildly different priorities. He doesn't want to use the money so he can pass it down.

If that were the case, he would just decline to go on the vacation. Clearly he wants to go, he just doesn’t want to pay. It’s not enough to have hand outs from his own family, he wants them from his ILs too.

He said he was guilt-tripped if they didn't go. Reread the OP.

I'm sure these post would be so different if it was a woman.

So what if they were guilt tripped? Good grief grow a spine.

He has never had to develop a spine because he has had everything handed to him and hasn’t had to work hard for it.

Yeah, I’m sure his parents paid for a body double to get go to medical school for him. And, now some poor slave is working for his paycheck while he sits on the couch and eats bon bons! What an @ss!

Who worked for the money that paid for his education and his start in life? He did not. I’m sure he studied hard and spends time working as a doctor, but that is not the same as engaging in labor to pay for every single thing you have.

The FIL built his own business from the ground up, with no parental handouts. OP did not have to work for the money that paid for college and med school, and he’s not sure he’d ever be capable of that kind of work. Backbones are built by dealing with pressure and stress, not by having tuition money paid by mommy and daddy writing a check.

YES that is the point! OP WANTS this for his own children. How are ya’ll this stupid?! He LITERALLY says this in his OP. If he doesn’t have “a backbone” now, he will when his kid is in the same position as he is now, since you’re saying it was his parents who worked to fund him.

Say all you want about OP, but this is the dumbest angle/argument wrt his FIL!

Are you OP?

It sounds as though you have no understanding of the difference between working for everything you have, from the jump, and being handed everything to get a handsome start on life. It appears that you have no understanding of physical work, of worrying about how you’re going to pay for things. Character and resilience are built through dealing with difficulties. You ha ve never had to deal with the difficulty of worrying about where your money is coming from.

You will do your children no favors to give them everything they need to succeed. They could easily end up being adults who have no understanding or appreciation of what hard work actually is.

Are you valuing physical labor over mental labor?

Some self made men (like my husband) look back on the struggle and think: " damn, that was hard. I want better for my own kids. As long as they are working hard on their studies, I'm supporting them financially. I don't want them to struggle and worry. "

That doesn't mean we didn't require and teach the value of physical labor.

While there is some value in having done physical labor at least at some point in one’s life, the more important point is in being responsible for earning the money that allows one to succeed in life. One has a very different character-building experience when one has to work to pay at least part of one’s tuition bills.

I think OP realizes that he could not have hacked paying any of his own tuition when he was young because he recognizes inner abilities that his FIL has that he will never have. It makes him feel inadequate, so he dislikes his FIL. OP doesn’t necessarily understand that he feels this way, thus this thread calling out what he sees as how the FIL has wronged him.

How many 20yos have had the ability to pay their own tuition???

It’s sad that you think physicians are total slackers, which is nervy on a board filled with them.

OP was not a physician at age 20. Young adults can contribute to their own tuition by working part time jobs during the school year and working full time during summers.

People who have all their tuitions and costs paid for by others don’t really appreciate the work it takes to make that money. They enter adulthood with the experience of having everything they need and want paid for by others and they expect this happy experience to continue as they live their adult lives. This is a good explanation for why the OP expects his own family and even his wife’s family to pay for their vacations and restaurant meals.

Good grief , you have no clue how grueling med school and residency is compared to those salt of the earth blue collar jobs. The stress, intensity, no sleep, and stakes..ie you could kill someone just doesn’t compare.

Well, based on the OPs own words, it's not too grueling. Remember that the OP gets his name put on publications (if he does it, it was done to him) and gets a foot in for prestigious internships. Most likely he was a legacy admit for undergrad and had a place held for him at a med school. Plus if he works for his family practice (where else could he work 0.8 FTE?), he doesn't have to be the top student. In fact studies show that there's a 3rd generation "curse": about 70% of wealthy families lose their wealth by the 2nd generation, and about 90% by the 3rd.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Blue collar boomers assume all physicians are very wealthy. FIL sees his SIL as having deep pockets and being blue collar expects the deep pocket guy to pay. It’s a scarcity mindset. Even though FIL has unexpectedly made a lot of money, he doesn’t want to share it and he wants others to give him more money. Generational wealth building is something very foreign to him. FIL would probably also love to get his fingers into some of the OPs parents’ money.

FIL may also lose his money or not be as solidly wealthy as he lets on. If he is a tradesman who became a contractor, he could very well blow up at some point. Real estate developers who can come from blue or white collar backgrounds often skate between being worth millions and being bankrupt. If he’s built a successful plumbing or HVAC company and sells to PE he could make a lot but then invests it poorly with a developer friend where he could lose it.

OP is wealthy.

So is FIL.

Everyone is mocking the wife's usless degree as a probable justification for why her father wants her to pay the money back but did OP even say what the degree was? Because relative to his career as a physician I'm sure everything seems low paying.

Regardless of what the undergrad degree is in, by OP's admission, she is going to get a masters in an area that is low pay. So, she is making one bad decision after another knowing that she would not be able to pay her father back like she promised she would.

OP is an elitist who thinks how he uses his wealth is the right way (look at me, aren't I great for helping my extended family), and the FIL is a tightwad a$$ (who made his wealth rather than inherited it) for expecting his daughter to pay back money she agreed to.

OP's wife is kind of an idiot and a leech for expecting the men in her life to keep subsidizing her so she can do whatever she wants. If she weren't married to a rich man, how would she pay back the loan and get a masters in a low paying field?

FIL is a bit harsh, but he built his wealth by himself and knows how hard it is to make that money. IMO, him letting his daughter pay back the loan with no interest and no maturity date signals to me that this isn't about money but about teaching his adult daughter the value of money and the consequences of her choices. Seems to me that she has yet to learn that lesson.

As for the expensive dinners and trips, OP can say no, but why should FIL subsidize OP's choice in using his wealth to help his extended family members (while kind), and then OP turns around and says to the FIL that they will no longer be paying the debt owed.

OP here. I am not providing financial help to my family. They do not need it. I have obtained prestigious research internships and gotten their names on publications for when they apply to medical school. I also help elderly family members with managing their affairs - I work 0.8 FTE to make time for this.

I don’t consider my wife’s degree useless. I encouraged her to go back school and if she wants to stay at home after school I am happy with that as well.

Ultimately, I find my FIL’s stinginess embarrassing. He has a mid eight figure net worth and is still a poor tipper. He will gobble up all the bread at the table. In my family we are generous with our time, money, and other resources. FIL has the opposite mindset. If he were less fortunate I would happily pay for his dinner and vacation. I paid for the last semester of college for a friend who is in a tough spot so I consider myself very charitable. But, a wealthy old man who is stingy with their own family and the less fortunate will never receive money from me.

OP doesn't want to go on vacation or eat out with FIL. He finds him embarrassing and stingy. Earlier OP said FIL pressures them to go on these vacations and wife is caught in TBE middle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP's problem he is actually broke. He thinks about all his in terms of his family's money because he doesn't have any of his own money that he can decide how he wants to spend. He's basically a trust fund brat.

I think you have it backwards. She's broke. She doesn't have a job, and owes debt to her father. He has a job and didn't say he has debt.

OP said it himself that he feels like his extended family is subsidizing, because he doesn't have enough of his own money. Imagine being an adult and fretting about a dinner out because you don't have your own money.

I believe he said his family was subsidizing because they put him through undergraduate and medical school debt free, bought him a house, and he's already received some inheritance. He has money. No debt. He's believes paying his share of a vacation or meal with his in-laws, using his salary, is using money he has only because his parents have contributed so much. He could be the one with huge educational debt instead of his wife, but for the fact his parents paid for him. He can only afford to go on these vacations because he doesn't have to pay student loans ( or mortgage?) out of his salary.

That's how money works. When you use it for one thing you have less for another. If he doesn't want to go on vacation then he can just say no but he's so used to having all his bills paid by parents it's uncomfortable to have to open that wallet once in awhile.

I agree OP doesn't have to do these things. OP says wife feels caught in the middle. My best guess is OP resents paying for these vacations rather than saving the money to pay it forward. But that's just a guess.

Completely agree with PP calling out different value systems between families.

Right. PP doesn't get it. Both families have wildly different priorities. He doesn't want to use the money so he can pass it down.

If that were the case, he would just decline to go on the vacation. Clearly he wants to go, he just doesn’t want to pay. It’s not enough to have hand outs from his own family, he wants them from his ILs too.

He said he was guilt-tripped if they didn't go. Reread the OP.

I'm sure these post would be so different if it was a woman.

So what if they were guilt tripped? Good grief grow a spine.

He has never had to develop a spine because he has had everything handed to him and hasn’t had to work hard for it.

Yeah, I’m sure his parents paid for a body double to get go to medical school for him. And, now some poor slave is working for his paycheck while he sits on the couch and eats bon bons! What an @ss!

Who worked for the money that paid for his education and his start in life? He did not. I’m sure he studied hard and spends time working as a doctor, but that is not the same as engaging in labor to pay for every single thing you have.

The FIL built his own business from the ground up, with no parental handouts. OP did not have to work for the money that paid for college and med school, and he’s not sure he’d ever be capable of that kind of work. Backbones are built by dealing with pressure and stress, not by having tuition money paid by mommy and daddy writing a check.

We really don't know what help- financial or otherwise- FIL had when building his business. Tons of people work hard and start businesses but never become wealthy. There is usually some luck or circumstance or help along the way that help the business become successful, it's rarely just a one-man machine. This isn't to say FIL didn't work hard but a lot of you are making assumptions or justifying not paying for his kids' college based on little information.

Unfortunately medical school is increasingly expensive and it's no wonder that many who pursue that feild come from wealthier backgrounds. It doesn't mean your doctor didn't put in the work to get there.

IMO all the actors come across a bit badly and entitled in this story, and both FIL and the OP sound controlling with money. If FIL wanted his DD to pay back the college "loan" with hard work, it should be through money SHE earns, not her husband's trust fund or salary. So this should really be between the parent and child, if FIL is coming to OP for the money it shows it was never about teaching his DD a lesson to begin with. OP needs to deflect to his wife to work this out, the dinners and vacations he can just decline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blue collar boomers assume all physicians are very wealthy. FIL sees his SIL as having deep pockets and being blue collar expects the deep pocket guy to pay. It’s a scarcity mindset. Even though FIL has unexpectedly made a lot of money, he doesn’t want to share it and he wants others to give him more money. Generational wealth building is something very foreign to him. FIL would probably also love to get his fingers into some of the OPs parents’ money.

FIL may also lose his money or not be as solidly wealthy as he lets on. If he is a tradesman who became a contractor, he could very well blow up at some point. Real estate developers who can come from blue or white collar backgrounds often skate between being worth millions and being bankrupt. If he’s built a successful plumbing or HVAC company and sells to PE he could make a lot but then invests it poorly with a developer friend where he could lose it.

OP is wealthy.

So is FIL.

Everyone is mocking the wife's usless degree as a probable justification for why her father wants her to pay the money back but did OP even say what the degree was? Because relative to his career as a physician I'm sure everything seems low paying.

Regardless of what the undergrad degree is in, by OP's admission, she is going to get a masters in an area that is low pay. So, she is making one bad decision after another knowing that she would not be able to pay her father back like she promised she would.

OP is an elitist who thinks how he uses his wealth is the right way (look at me, aren't I great for helping my extended family), and the FIL is a tightwad a$$ (who made his wealth rather than inherited it) for expecting his daughter to pay back money she agreed to.

OP's wife is kind of an idiot and a leech for expecting the men in her life to keep subsidizing her so she can do whatever she wants. If she weren't married to a rich man, how would she pay back the loan and get a masters in a low paying field?

FIL is a bit harsh, but he built his wealth by himself and knows how hard it is to make that money. IMO, him letting his daughter pay back the loan with no interest and no maturity date signals to me that this isn't about money but about teaching his adult daughter the value of money and the consequences of her choices. Seems to me that she has yet to learn that lesson.

As for the expensive dinners and trips, OP can say no, but why should FIL subsidize OP's choice in using his wealth to help his extended family members (while kind), and then OP turns around and says to the FIL that they will no longer be paying the debt owed.

OP here. I am not providing financial help to my family. They do not need it. I have obtained prestigious research internships and gotten their names on publications for when they apply to medical school. I also help elderly family members with managing their affairs - I work 0.8 FTE to make time for this.

I don’t consider my wife’s degree useless. I encouraged her to go back school and if she wants to stay at home after school I am happy with that as well.

Ultimately, I find my FIL’s stinginess embarrassing. He has a mid eight figure net worth and is still a poor tipper. He will gobble up all the bread at the table. In my family we are generous with our time, money, and other resources. FIL has the opposite mindset. If he were less fortunate I would happily pay for his dinner and vacation. I paid for the last semester of college for a friend who is in a tough spot so I consider myself very charitable. But, a wealthy old man who is stingy with their own family and the less fortunate will never receive money from me.

OP doesn't want to go on vacation or eat out with FIL. He finds him embarrassing and stingy. Earlier OP said FIL pressures them to go on these vacations and wife is caught in TBE middle.

So the easiest way is to just say no to vacations and dinners out. A lot of us PAY for our parents and ILs, so someone griping that they're supposed to pay for their OWN share is more than comical. It's absurd. Especially considering that this someone is supposedly a doctor, and not some autist playing video-games in a basement, and who managed to tell his FIL off about paying back a loan his wife took. So his interactions with his ILs are such that he refused to pay back a loan and he'd want his ILs to pay for his family's vacations, because apparently if he'd to pay, it takes money away from HIS family (i.e. him as his wife earns nothing). He thinks that HE'S SUBSIDIZING his FIL by paying for HIS OWN vacations and meals! I wonder if the OP has ever hosted his ILs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blue collar boomers assume all physicians are very wealthy. FIL sees his SIL as having deep pockets and being blue collar expects the deep pocket guy to pay. It’s a scarcity mindset. Even though FIL has unexpectedly made a lot of money, he doesn’t want to share it and he wants others to give him more money. Generational wealth building is something very foreign to him. FIL would probably also love to get his fingers into some of the OPs parents’ money.

FIL may also lose his money or not be as solidly wealthy as he lets on. If he is a tradesman who became a contractor, he could very well blow up at some point. Real estate developers who can come from blue or white collar backgrounds often skate between being worth millions and being bankrupt. If he’s built a successful plumbing or HVAC company and sells to PE he could make a lot but then invests it poorly with a developer friend where he could lose it.

OP is wealthy.

So is FIL.

Everyone is mocking the wife's usless degree as a probable justification for why her father wants her to pay the money back but did OP even say what the degree was? Because relative to his career as a physician I'm sure everything seems low paying.

Regardless of what the undergrad degree is in, by OP's admission, she is going to get a masters in an area that is low pay. So, she is making one bad decision after another knowing that she would not be able to pay her father back like she promised she would.

OP is an elitist who thinks how he uses his wealth is the right way (look at me, aren't I great for helping my extended family), and the FIL is a tightwad a$$ (who made his wealth rather than inherited it) for expecting his daughter to pay back money she agreed to.

OP's wife is kind of an idiot and a leech for expecting the men in her life to keep subsidizing her so she can do whatever she wants. If she weren't married to a rich man, how would she pay back the loan and get a masters in a low paying field?

FIL is a bit harsh, but he built his wealth by himself and knows how hard it is to make that money. IMO, him letting his daughter pay back the loan with no interest and no maturity date signals to me that this isn't about money but about teaching his adult daughter the value of money and the consequences of her choices. Seems to me that she has yet to learn that lesson.

As for the expensive dinners and trips, OP can say no, but why should FIL subsidize OP's choice in using his wealth to help his extended family members (while kind), and then OP turns around and says to the FIL that they will no longer be paying the debt owed.

OP here. I am not providing financial help to my family. They do not need it. I have obtained prestigious research internships and gotten their names on publications for when they apply to medical school. I also help elderly family members with managing their affairs - I work 0.8 FTE to make time for this.

I don’t consider my wife’s degree useless. I encouraged her to go back school and if she wants to stay at home after school I am happy with that as well.

Ultimately, I find my FIL’s stinginess embarrassing. He has a mid eight figure net worth and is still a poor tipper. He will gobble up all the bread at the table. In my family we are generous with our time, money, and other resources. FIL has the opposite mindset. If he were less fortunate I would happily pay for his dinner and vacation. I paid for the last semester of college for a friend who is in a tough spot so I consider myself very charitable. But, a wealthy old man who is stingy with their own family and the less fortunate will never receive money from me.

OP doesn't want to go on vacation or eat out with FIL. He finds him embarrassing and stingy. Earlier OP said FIL pressures them to go on these vacations and wife is caught in TBE middle.

So the easiest way is to just say no to vacations and dinners out. A lot of us PAY for our parents and ILs, so someone griping that they're supposed to pay for their OWN share is more than comical. It's absurd. Especially considering that this someone is supposedly a doctor, and not some autist playing video-games in a basement, and who managed to tell his FIL off about paying back a loan his wife took. So his interactions with his ILs are such that he refused to pay back a loan and he'd want his ILs to pay for his family's vacations, because apparently if he'd to pay, it takes money away from HIS family (i.e. him as his wife earns nothing). He thinks that HE'S SUBSIDIZING his FIL by paying for HIS OWN vacations and meals! I wonder if the OP has ever hosted his ILs

This 100%. I've been paying for my mom for 20 years. I can't imagine having this mindset.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP's problem he is actually broke. He thinks about all his in terms of his family's money because he doesn't have any of his own money that he can decide how he wants to spend. He's basically a trust fund brat.

I think you have it backwards. She's broke. She doesn't have a job, and owes debt to her father. He has a job and didn't say he has debt.

OP said it himself that he feels like his extended family is subsidizing, because he doesn't have enough of his own money. Imagine being an adult and fretting about a dinner out because you don't have your own money.

I believe he said his family was subsidizing because they put him through undergraduate and medical school debt free, bought him a house, and he's already received some inheritance. He has money. No debt. He's believes paying his share of a vacation or meal with his in-laws, using his salary, is using money he has only because his parents have contributed so much. He could be the one with huge educational debt instead of his wife, but for the fact his parents paid for him. He can only afford to go on these vacations because he doesn't have to pay student loans ( or mortgage?) out of his salary.

That's how money works. When you use it for one thing you have less for another. If he doesn't want to go on vacation then he can just say no but he's so used to having all his bills paid by parents it's uncomfortable to have to open that wallet once in awhile.

I agree OP doesn't have to do these things. OP says wife feels caught in the middle. My best guess is OP resents paying for these vacations rather than saving the money to pay it forward. But that's just a guess.

Completely agree with PP calling out different value systems between families.

Right. PP doesn't get it. Both families have wildly different priorities. He doesn't want to use the money so he can pass it down.

If that were the case, he would just decline to go on the vacation. Clearly he wants to go, he just doesn’t want to pay. It’s not enough to have hand outs from his own family, he wants them from his ILs too.

He said he was guilt-tripped if they didn't go. Reread the OP.

I'm sure these post would be so different if it was a woman.

So what if they were guilt tripped? Good grief grow a spine.

He has never had to develop a spine because he has had everything handed to him and hasn’t had to work hard for it.

Yeah, I’m sure his parents paid for a body double to get go to medical school for him. And, now some poor slave is working for his paycheck while he sits on the couch and eats bon bons! What an @ss!

Who worked for the money that paid for his education and his start in life? He did not. I’m sure he studied hard and spends time working as a doctor, but that is not the same as engaging in labor to pay for every single thing you have.

The FIL built his own business from the ground up, with no parental handouts. OP did not have to work for the money that paid for college and med school, and he’s not sure he’d ever be capable of that kind of work. Backbones are built by dealing with pressure and stress, not by having tuition money paid by mommy and daddy writing a check.

We really don't know what help- financial or otherwise- FIL had when building his business. Tons of people work hard and start businesses but never become wealthy. There is usually some luck or circumstance or help along the way that help the business become successful, it's rarely just a one-man machine. This isn't to say FIL didn't work hard but a lot of you are making assumptions or justifying not paying for his kids' college based on little information.

Unfortunately medical school is increasingly expensive and it's no wonder that many who pursue that feild come from wealthier backgrounds. It doesn't mean your doctor didn't put in the work to get there.

IMO all the actors come across a bit badly and entitled in this story, and both FIL and the OP sound controlling with money. If FIL wanted his DD to pay back the college "loan" with hard work, it should be through money SHE earns, not her husband's trust fund or salary. So this should really be between the parent and child, if FIL is coming to OP for the money it shows it was never about teaching his DD a lesson to begin with. OP needs to deflect to his wife to work this out, the dinners and vacations he can just decline.

Yes. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Blue collar boomers assume all physicians are very wealthy. FIL sees his SIL as having deep pockets and being blue collar expects the deep pocket guy to pay. It’s a scarcity mindset. Even though FIL has unexpectedly made a lot of money, he doesn’t want to share it and he wants others to give him more money. Generational wealth building is something very foreign to him. FIL would probably also love to get his fingers into some of the OPs parents’ money.

FIL may also lose his money or not be as solidly wealthy as he lets on. If he is a tradesman who became a contractor, he could very well blow up at some point. Real estate developers who can come from blue or white collar backgrounds often skate between being worth millions and being bankrupt. If he’s built a successful plumbing or HVAC company and sells to PE he could make a lot but then invests it poorly with a developer friend where he could lose it.

OP is wealthy.

So is FIL.

Everyone is mocking the wife's usless degree as a probable justification for why her father wants her to pay the money back but did OP even say what the degree was? Because relative to his career as a physician I'm sure everything seems low paying.

Regardless of what the undergrad degree is in, by OP's admission, she is going to get a masters in an area that is low pay. So, she is making one bad decision after another knowing that she would not be able to pay her father back like she promised she would.

OP is an elitist who thinks how he uses his wealth is the right way (look at me, aren't I great for helping my extended family), and the FIL is a tightwad a$$ (who made his wealth rather than inherited it) for expecting his daughter to pay back money she agreed to.

OP's wife is kind of an idiot and a leech for expecting the men in her life to keep subsidizing her so she can do whatever she wants. If she weren't married to a rich man, how would she pay back the loan and get a masters in a low paying field?

FIL is a bit harsh, but he built his wealth by himself and knows how hard it is to make that money. IMO, him letting his daughter pay back the loan with no interest and no maturity date signals to me that this isn't about money but about teaching his adult daughter the value of money and the consequences of her choices. Seems to me that she has yet to learn that lesson.

As for the expensive dinners and trips, OP can say no, but why should FIL subsidize OP's choice in using his wealth to help his extended family members (while kind), and then OP turns around and says to the FIL that they will no longer be paying the debt owed.

OP here. I am not providing financial help to my family. They do not need it. I have obtained prestigious research internships and gotten their names on publications for when they apply to medical school. I also help elderly family members with managing their affairs - I work 0.8 FTE to make time for this.

I don’t consider my wife’s degree useless. I encouraged her to go back school and if she wants to stay at home after school I am happy with that as well.

Ultimately, I find my FIL’s stinginess embarrassing. He has a mid eight figure net worth and is still a poor tipper. He will gobble up all the bread at the table. In my family we are generous with our time, money, and other resources. FIL has the opposite mindset. If he were less fortunate I would happily pay for his dinner and vacation. I paid for the last semester of college for a friend who is in a tough spot so I consider myself very charitable. But, a wealthy old man who is stingy with their own family and the less fortunate will never receive money from me.

OP doesn't want to go on vacation or eat out with FIL. He finds him embarrassing and stingy. Earlier OP said FIL pressures them to go on these vacations and wife is caught in TBE middle.

So the easiest way is to just say no to vacations and dinners out. A lot of us PAY for our parents and ILs, so someone griping that they're supposed to pay for their OWN share is more than comical. It's absurd. Especially considering that this someone is supposedly a doctor, and not some autist playing video-games in a basement, and who managed to tell his FIL off about paying back a loan his wife took. So his interactions with his ILs are such that he refused to pay back a loan and he'd want his ILs to pay for his family's vacations, because apparently if he'd to pay, it takes money away from HIS family (i.e. him as his wife earns nothing). He thinks that HE'S SUBSIDIZING his FIL by paying for HIS OWN vacations and meals! I wonder if the OP has ever hosted his

In OP’s defense, it is annoying to come from a generous family but have in-laws who are noncontributing. I feel it but my situation is a little different - my parents have money and cover vacations, but my in laws are broke and need help. It’s a source of resentment. People are better off marrying someone from a similar background with similar values.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP's problem he is actually broke. He thinks about all his in terms of his family's money because he doesn't have any of his own money that he can decide how he wants to spend. He's basically a trust fund brat.

I think you have it backwards. She's broke. She doesn't have a job, and owes debt to her father. He has a job and didn't say he has debt.

OP said it himself that he feels like his extended family is subsidizing, because he doesn't have enough of his own money. Imagine being an adult and fretting about a dinner out because you don't have your own money.

I believe he said his family was subsidizing because they put him through undergraduate and medical school debt free, bought him a house, and he's already received some inheritance. He has money. No debt. He's believes paying his share of a vacation or meal with his in-laws, using his salary, is using money he has only because his parents have contributed so much. He could be the one with huge educational debt instead of his wife, but for the fact his parents paid for him. He can only afford to go on these vacations because he doesn't have to pay student loans ( or mortgage?) out of his salary.

That's how money works. When you use it for one thing you have less for another. If he doesn't want to go on vacation then he can just say no but he's so used to having all his bills paid by parents it's uncomfortable to have to open that wallet once in awhile.

I agree OP doesn't have to do these things. OP says wife feels caught in the middle. My best guess is OP resents paying for these vacations rather than saving the money to pay it forward. But that's just a guess.

Completely agree with PP calling out different value systems between families.

Right. PP doesn't get it. Both families have wildly different priorities. He doesn't want to use the money so he can pass it down.

If that were the case, he would just decline to go on the vacation. Clearly he wants to go, he just doesn’t want to pay. It’s not enough to have hand outs from his own family, he wants them from his ILs too.

He said he was guilt-tripped if they didn't go. Reread the OP.

I'm sure these post would be so different if it was a woman.

So what if they were guilt tripped? Good grief grow a spine.

He has never had to develop a spine because he has had everything handed to him and hasn’t had to work hard for it.

Yeah, I’m sure his parents paid for a body double to get go to medical school for him. And, now some poor slave is working for his paycheck while he sits on the couch and eats bon bons! What an @ss!

Who worked for the money that paid for his education and his start in life? He did not. I’m sure he studied hard and spends time working as a doctor, but that is not the same as engaging in labor to pay for every single thing you have.

The FIL built his own business from the ground up, with no parental handouts. OP did not have to work for the money that paid for college and med school, and he’s not sure he’d ever be capable of that kind of work. Backbones are built by dealing with pressure and stress, not by having tuition money paid by mommy and daddy writing a check.

YES that is the point! OP WANTS this for his own children. How are ya’ll this stupid?! He LITERALLY says this in his OP. If he doesn’t have “a backbone” now, he will when his kid is in the same position as he is now, since you’re saying it was his parents who worked to fund him.

Say all you want about OP, but this is the dumbest angle/argument wrt his FIL!

I’m the PP who said OP can grow a backbone if he feels guilted into going on a vacation he doesn’t want to go on *because he would have to pay for it *. He only wants to go on free vacations from his family or have his FIL pay for them. He never says they are destinations he doesn’t want to go to or even his ILs are bad company. He just doesn’t want to pay. But he is not willing to say no because he knows how bad it looks, so he just quietly sulks and pouts that FIL should pay. If they couldn’t afford it or he really didn’t want to go he could just say sorry, not this year, since it sounds like his wife doesn’t get a say in how money is spent since he views her as fully dependent on him.

Many of us manage to say no thanks to vacations we don’t want to attend or can’t afford without the benefit of medical school, generational wealth or any of the other things that OP is used to thinking of making him so great.

I’m sure OP is now convinced with your endless pontificating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You told your father-in-law that your wife wouldn’t be paying back a family loan? No wonder he’s pissed.

OP here. She would not be paying it back with marital income. Since she is now back in school and not earning income that means that I would not be making payments on it with my income.

Damn. I feel sorry for you wife. You sound like a douche

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Blue collar boomers assume all physicians are very wealthy. FIL sees his SIL as having deep pockets and being blue collar expects the deep pocket guy to pay. It’s a scarcity mindset. Even though FIL has unexpectedly made a lot of money, he doesn’t want to share it and he wants others to give him more money. Generational wealth building is something very foreign to him. FIL would probably also love to get his fingers into some of the OPs parents’ money.

FIL may also lose his money or not be as solidly wealthy as he lets on. If he is a tradesman who became a contractor, he could very well blow up at some point. Real estate developers who can come from blue or white collar backgrounds often skate between being worth millions and being bankrupt. If he’s built a successful plumbing or HVAC company and sells to PE he could make a lot but then invests it poorly with a developer friend where he could lose it.

OP is wealthy.

So is FIL.

Everyone is mocking the wife's usless degree as a probable justification for why her father wants her to pay the money back but did OP even say what the degree was? Because relative to his career as a physician I'm sure everything seems low paying.

Regardless of what the undergrad degree is in, by OP's admission, she is going to get a masters in an area that is low pay. So, she is making one bad decision after another knowing that she would not be able to pay her father back like she promised she would.

OP is an elitist who thinks how he uses his wealth is the right way (look at me, aren't I great for helping my extended family), and the FIL is a tightwad a$$ (who made his wealth rather than inherited it) for expecting his daughter to pay back money she agreed to.

OP's wife is kind of an idiot and a leech for expecting the men in her life to keep subsidizing her so she can do whatever she wants. If she weren't married to a rich man, how would she pay back the loan and get a masters in a low paying field?

FIL is a bit harsh, but he built his wealth by himself and knows how hard it is to make that money. IMO, him letting his daughter pay back the loan with no interest and no maturity date signals to me that this isn't about money but about teaching his adult daughter the value of money and the consequences of her choices. Seems to me that she has yet to learn that lesson.

As for the expensive dinners and trips, OP can say no, but why should FIL subsidize OP's choice in using his wealth to help his extended family members (while kind), and then OP turns around and says to the FIL that they will no longer be paying the debt owed.

OP here. I am not providing financial help to my family. They do not need it. I have obtained prestigious research internships and gotten their names on publications for when they apply to medical school. I also help elderly family members with managing their affairs - I work 0.8 FTE to make time for this.

I don’t consider my wife’s degree useless. I encouraged her to go back school and if she wants to stay at home after school I am happy with that as well.

Ultimately, I find my FIL’s stinginess embarrassing. He has a mid eight figure net worth and is still a poor tipper. He will gobble up all the bread at the table. In my family we are generous with our time, money, and other resources. FIL has the opposite mindset. If he were less fortunate I would happily pay for his dinner and vacation. I paid for the last semester of college for a friend who is in a tough spot so I consider myself very charitable. But, a wealthy old man who is stingy with their own family and the less fortunate will never receive money from me.

OP doesn't want to go on vacation or eat out with FIL. He finds him embarrassing and stingy. Earlier OP said FIL pressures them to go on these vacations and wife is caught in TBE middle.

So the easiest way is to just say no to vacations and dinners out. A lot of us PAY for our parents and ILs, so someone griping that they're supposed to pay for their OWN share is more than comical. It's absurd. Especially considering that this someone is supposedly a doctor, and not some autist playing video-games in a basement, and who managed to tell his FIL off about paying back a loan his wife took. So his interactions with his ILs are such that he refused to pay back a loan and he'd want his ILs to pay for his family's vacations, because apparently if he'd to pay, it takes money away from HIS family (i.e. him as his wife earns nothing). He thinks that HE'S SUBSIDIZING his FIL by paying for HIS OWN vacations and meals! I wonder if the OP has ever hosted his ILs

This 100%. I've been paying for my mom for 20 years. I can't imagine having this mindset.

This is comical. We’ve gone from OP should not whine about any expensive vacation FIL wants to go on, or just be man enough to be guilt-tripped, to he should be paying for FIL’s vacation too.

Never change, DCUM!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

- He had her take out "loans" from him informally for college and a graduate degree. He was ticked off at me once I informed him the payments on these "loans" would come to an end once our marriage took place.

- He and my MIL invite us on very expensive vacations and then expect us to cover our own cost which can be in the tens of thousands of dollars for some of the trips he likes.

- Similar situation with restaurants. He will propose an expensive restaurant, order expensive items, and then want to split the check 50/50.

I cut down OP's post above to the examples.

OP, your FIL has a pay-as-you-go approach to life. He wants his kids to be responsible for their own choices but he is still generous enough to advance funds for your wife to do the schooling she wants to do.

You don't say if he has a sexist view of the world where a man/husband is responsible for his wife's money/debt/support but not the other way around. That may complicate things.

I agree that you do not have to pay your FIL for your wife's debts to him. Presumably she plans to work after getting the degree. And perhaps you are carrying the household expenses while she studies. Although maritally you may be jointly responsible for her debts legally, I think ethically she both undertook the obligation and should be prepared to pay it back. Have her settle the repayment plan on her parental loans with her parents and have the payments begin when she starts to earn money. Her dad wants to teach her responsibility. Marrying you so you could pay them off was not likely her plan. Have her figure it out.

Next the vacation. You and your wife should pay your own way if you go. If you do not want to go and do not want to pay, skip the vacation. Norms differ. Only some parents treat. Tell your FIL that your family of origin treats and you are not placing a priority on expensive vacations with your own money because you have x, y, z other goals. Let them get mad.

Restaurants. Split the check. It's another case of different norms. Neither party is more correct. Surely you can afford to socialize with them some of the time.

Your in-laws should be glad to have a son-in-law with zero debt. You should agree to do some things with them even if they aren't "worth it". Those are the concessions you make to be part of an in-law family. You cannot have everything your preferred way.

Sounds like your wife needs to step up her earning to stay in good grades with her family of origin. Encourage her to have a plan. If she decides to be an overexcited SAHM and wants to pay her dad back, you'd best get that hashed out ASAP.

OP here. The not paying the "loan" is a settled topic. There was no formal loan document. The "loan" was an absurd issue in my opinion. Due to her family's financial position she was a full pay student. She attended a private OOS school to the tune of over $200,000. The degree which she is currently pursuing (which I am paying for) is not a highly paid field and my wife will likely be doing a fair amount of charity work. I'm sorry, but the notion that her parents think its reasonable to try and saddle an 18 y/o with such a loan for a low paying degree at a private school is ridiculous and consequently they are the ones who paid after I came on the scene. This non-repayment though is such a miniscule percentage of their net worth that it did not make a difference in their circumstances.

Do you even hear yourself?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You told your father-in-law that your wife wouldn’t be paying back a family loan? No wonder he’s pissed.

OP here. She would not be paying it back with marital income. Since she is now back in school and not earning income that means that I would not be making payments on it with my income.

Damn. I feel sorry for you wife. You sound like a douche

Because he doesn’t want to pay for his own wife’s dowry to her father?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Blue collar boomers assume all physicians are very wealthy. FIL sees his SIL as having deep pockets and being blue collar expects the deep pocket guy to pay. It’s a scarcity mindset. Even though FIL has unexpectedly made a lot of money, he doesn’t want to share it and he wants others to give him more money. Generational wealth building is something very foreign to him. FIL would probably also love to get his fingers into some of the OPs parents’ money.

FIL may also lose his money or not be as solidly wealthy as he lets on. If he is a tradesman who became a contractor, he could very well blow up at some point. Real estate developers who can come from blue or white collar backgrounds often skate between being worth millions and being bankrupt. If he’s built a successful plumbing or HVAC company and sells to PE he could make a lot but then invests it poorly with a developer friend where he could lose it.

OP is wealthy.

So is FIL.

Everyone is mocking the wife's usless degree as a probable justification for why her father wants her to pay the money back but did OP even say what the degree was? Because relative to his career as a physician I'm sure everything seems low paying.

Regardless of what the undergrad degree is in, by OP's admission, she is going to get a masters in an area that is low pay. So, she is making one bad decision after another knowing that she would not be able to pay her father back like she promised she would.

OP is an elitist who thinks how he uses his wealth is the right way (look at me, aren't I great for helping my extended family), and the FIL is a tightwad a$$ (who made his wealth rather than inherited it) for expecting his daughter to pay back money she agreed to.

OP's wife is kind of an idiot and a leech for expecting the men in her life to keep subsidizing her so she can do whatever she wants. If she weren't married to a rich man, how would she pay back the loan and get a masters in a low paying field?

FIL is a bit harsh, but he built his wealth by himself and knows how hard it is to make that money. IMO, him letting his daughter pay back the loan with no interest and no maturity date signals to me that this isn't about money but about teaching his adult daughter the value of money and the consequences of her choices. Seems to me that she has yet to learn that lesson.

As for the expensive dinners and trips, OP can say no, but why should FIL subsidize OP's choice in using his wealth to help his extended family members (while kind), and then OP turns around and says to the FIL that they will no longer be paying the debt owed.

OP here. I am not providing financial help to my family. They do not need it. I have obtained prestigious research internships and gotten their names on publications for when they apply to medical school. I also help elderly family members with managing their affairs - I work 0.8 FTE to make time for this.

I don’t consider my wife’s degree useless. I encouraged her to go back school and if she wants to stay at home after school I am happy with that as well.

Ultimately, I find my FIL’s stinginess embarrassing. He has a mid eight figure net worth and is still a poor tipper. He will gobble up all the bread at the table. In my family we are generous with our time, money, and other resources. FIL has the opposite mindset. If he were less fortunate I would happily pay for his dinner and vacation. I paid for the last semester of college for a friend who is in a tough spot so I consider myself very charitable. But, a wealthy old man who is stingy with their own family and the less fortunate will never receive money from me.

You know, maybe he does far more for people than you've ever dreamed of, but doesn't require the accolades that you do. That would make him a far better man than you any day of the week and twice on Sundays