When sorority rush goes wrong

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my DD’s school, the members already know 80% of the girls they want before rush even starts. They are looking at social media and asking friends from the same area high schools what they know about the girls. This starts before rush even starts. If your DD is interested in rush, have her create an image on insta, VSCO, tiktok, etc. before ever arriving. I mean this sincerely. Travel photos, lots of shots with groups of pretty girls, pictures of your DD where she looks really good, etc. Delete all photos that don’t meet these criteria.

What school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP
Michigan. She was already struggling with the size of the school and had been holding out hope that this would help her with community.

Only 18% of Michigan undergrads are in fraternities/sororities. I truly don't understand why she thinks this is the only way she can find community. What else has she done?

For a huge school like M and super small, like W&L, you need to find your "people" and be "sorted." NYC privates, midwestern UMC, or southern private etc. Unfortunately at these places this is the game and if you aren't in the stereotypical house for your type, it can feel very tough. If you are middle class no connections at EITHER of these type of schools, life can be hard...and you can't go in blind, like it seems this op may have.It is what it is unfortunately, starts before college.

This is true, and, I hate to say it, the sorting lasts your whole like in country clubs, private schools etc. IF you go to one of these heavy greek schools, and you tell someone at the club that you went to said school, they will ask "oh, were you a ZTA?" and you say "no, I was a [insert low tier sorority]" they will smile and move on. I hate it, but at that $$$ level, people can be ruthless. This is if you're white, if you're Asian, no one expects you to be greek, which makes it easier.

OMG, you are pathetic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP here to add some context.

Michigan had over 1500 girls sign up for rush this year. Of course it was a record year b/c those crazy 2007 babies are all still competing against each other. There were 15 houses participating in formal rush and you can assume a pledge class is around 70 people. That means 1/3 of the girls would not end up with bids. Some would drop on their own and maybe some would just get shut out. There is actually another sorority returning to campus and their rush starts a few weeks later, so there are more spots, but I can see how a lot of girls would be hesitant to join a complete unknown.

The girls met all 16 houses (the new one, too) over a zoom that lasted about 10-15 minutes. Then, they split the houses into 11 yays and 4 less interested and ranked the 4. A LOT of girls got all the 4 ranked ones back. The system gives more invites to the less "popular" houses to increase interactions and encourage a better yield. You can image with 1500 girls, that means a lof of cuts. The time of the zoom wasn't enough to actually get to know the houses or for the houses to make an honest judgement call on the PNMs. Girls are "unofficially" advised to open their social media before rush starts, so you can see how influence and SM curation had a great impact.

OP - There are reasons girls want the "top" houses at UMich, but your daughter should ask if that's really her vibe. Some houses are better than others at creating an online image, but that doesn't mean they are a better house. My DD found some were surprising in both good and bad ways. So, so many girls were upset when the lists came out Friday. Your DD isn't going to be alone if she drops rush. I think a lot more will happen before pref. Also, I've heard so many times that girls don't drop their pre-greek friends at UM, so that shouldn't be a problem.

It's tough to watch, but I hope your daughter comes to a decision that makes her happy. Seriously, most people at UM aren't greek and there are a million clubs and little communities where she can find friendships.

I say this kindly, mom, but you need to land the helicopter and get your own life. No parent should know this much about the greek system at their child's school. This makes you sound utterly insane.

This is not kind at all and knowing this info is not abnormal. These girls are 18 years old, this process is awful, and it’s nice that they have moms who care enough to learn the details of the things that matter to them. It’s called a relationship. I wasn’t in a sorority but my daughter is and I love her, so I learned. Bug off.

It’s called enmeshment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP
Michigan. She was already struggling with the size of the school and had been holding out hope that this would help her with community.

Only 18% of Michigan undergrads are in fraternities/sororities. I truly don't understand why she thinks this is the only way she can find community. What else has she done?

For a huge school like M and super small, like W&L, you need to find your "people" and be "sorted." NYC privates, midwestern UMC, or southern private etc. Unfortunately at these places this is the game and if you aren't in the stereotypical house for your type, it can feel very tough. If you are middle class no connections at EITHER of these type of schools, life can be hard...and you can't go in blind, like it seems this op may have.It is what it is unfortunately, starts before college.

This is true, and, I hate to say it, the sorting lasts your whole like in country clubs, private schools etc. IF you go to one of these heavy greek schools, and you tell someone at the club that you went to said school, they will ask "oh, were you a ZTA?" and you say "no, I was a [insert low tier sorority]" they will smile and move on. I hate it, but at that $$$ level, people can be ruthless. This is if you're white, if you're Asian, no one expects you to be greek, which makes it easier.

I was in a top tier sorority and belong to a country club and never once has this question been posed. Pp lives in la la land.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my DD’s school, the members already know 80% of the girls they want before rush even starts. They are looking at social media and asking friends from the same area high schools what they know about the girls. This starts before rush even starts. If your DD is interested in rush, have her create an image on insta, VSCO, tiktok, etc. before ever arriving. I mean this sincerely. Travel photos, lots of shots with groups of pretty girls, pictures of your DD where she looks really good, etc. Delete all photos that don’t meet these criteria.

Translation: she needs to look like your family has a lot of money.

First poster is behind pathetic, what a lame superficial child she must have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If someone is going to get involved with exclusionary organizations that will leave a certain percentage of people shut out, they need to be prepared to be that shut out person. Colleges that allow this stuff need to make sure there are places for everyone and that social life doesn't revolve around it.

Who gets to decide what "tier" a sorority is? And why would a sorority be concerned with anyone shallow enough to rank them? Does the dean not say hello to you if you're at the bottom of the sorority heap? Just do your thing and let other sororities do theirs.

Initiations and hazing sound so brutal and childish. I would hope college age people would be above it.

What world do you live in? Life is exclusionary.

Sorry, is this the same board that freaks out if only 6 of 10 girls are invited to a birthday party?

Remember the post about the mom who worked at home and saw some school acquaintances out to lunch? Nobody cares if 6 girls are invited to the party as long as they/their child is one of the six.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP here to add some context.

Michigan had over 1500 girls sign up for rush this year. Of course it was a record year b/c those crazy 2007 babies are all still competing against each other. There were 15 houses participating in formal rush and you can assume a pledge class is around 70 people. That means 1/3 of the girls would not end up with bids. Some would drop on their own and maybe some would just get shut out. There is actually another sorority returning to campus and their rush starts a few weeks later, so there are more spots, but I can see how a lot of girls would be hesitant to join a complete unknown.

The girls met all 16 houses (the new one, too) over a zoom that lasted about 10-15 minutes. Then, they split the houses into 11 yays and 4 less interested and ranked the 4. A LOT of girls got all the 4 ranked ones back. The system gives more invites to the less "popular" houses to increase interactions and encourage a better yield. You can image with 1500 girls, that means a lof of cuts. The time of the zoom wasn't enough to actually get to know the houses or for the houses to make an honest judgement call on the PNMs. Girls are "unofficially" advised to open their social media before rush starts, so you can see how influence and SM curation had a great impact.

OP - There are reasons girls want the "top" houses at UMich, but your daughter should ask if that's really her vibe. Some houses are better than others at creating an online image, but that doesn't mean they are a better house. My DD found some were surprising in both good and bad ways. So, so many girls were upset when the lists came out Friday. Your DD isn't going to be alone if she drops rush. I think a lot more will happen before pref. Also, I've heard so many times that girls don't drop their pre-greek friends at UM, so that shouldn't be a problem.

It's tough to watch, but I hope your daughter comes to a decision that makes her happy. Seriously, most people at UM aren't greek and there are a million clubs and little communities where she can find friendships.

I say this kindly, mom, but you need to land the helicopter and get your own life. No parent should know this much about the greek system at their child's school. This makes you sound utterly insane.

It sounds like her dd goes to Michigan and is in a sorority there. I would imagine the dd knows these details, or learned them while prepping for rush, and mentioned them to mom when she was home on holiday break or something. I highly doubt pp just like, googled the number of girls signing up for rush.

Do some of you think parents should cut off all contact with their children the day they turn 18 or something?

You are so far up into your kid’s business, that you can’t see the wide space between knowing all the details and cutting off all contact?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP
Michigan. She was already struggling with the size of the school and had been holding out hope that this would help her with community.

Only 18% of Michigan undergrads are in fraternities/sororities. I truly don't understand why she thinks this is the only way she can find community. What else has she done?

For a huge school like M and super small, like W&L, you need to find your "people" and be "sorted." NYC privates, midwestern UMC, or southern private etc. Unfortunately at these places this is the game and if you aren't in the stereotypical house for your type, it can feel very tough. If you are middle class no connections at EITHER of these type of schools, life can be hard...and you can't go in blind, like it seems this op may have.It is what it is unfortunately, starts before college.

This is true, and, I hate to say it, the sorting lasts your whole like in country clubs, private schools etc. IF you go to one of these heavy greek schools, and you tell someone at the club that you went to said school, they will ask "oh, were you a ZTA?" and you say "no, I was a [insert low tier sorority]" they will smile and move on. I hate it, but at that $$$ level, people can be ruthless. This is if you're white, if you're Asian, no one expects you to be greek, which makes it easier.

I was in a top tier sorority and belong to a country club and never once has this question been posed. Pp lives in la la land.

Meh, country clubs are just the Greek system for adults.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If someone is going to get involved with exclusionary organizations that will leave a certain percentage of people shut out, they need to be prepared to be that shut out person. Colleges that allow this stuff need to make sure there are places for everyone and that social life doesn't revolve around it.

Who gets to decide what "tier" a sorority is? And why would a sorority be concerned with anyone shallow enough to rank them? Does the dean not say hello to you if you're at the bottom of the sorority heap? Just do your thing and let other sororities do theirs.

Initiations and hazing sound so brutal and childish. I would hope college age people would be above it.

What world do you live in? Life is exclusionary.

It's the job of college administrators to foster an inclusive environment on campus, and that means not allowing fraternities and soririties to have undue control over campus life, which creates in groups and out groups. People shouldn't feel like second class citizens at college

No, it’s actually not. It’s the job of college administrators to see that your student gets an education. Whether or not they choose to participate in Greek life is up to them.

Part of providing an education is ensuring that campus life is not dominated by a childish, shallow social structure that people deeply obsess over and even feel compelled to pay big money to consultants in the desperate hope of not not winding up in the out group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP here to add some context.

Michigan had over 1500 girls sign up for rush this year. Of course it was a record year b/c those crazy 2007 babies are all still competing against each other. There were 15 houses participating in formal rush and you can assume a pledge class is around 70 people. That means 1/3 of the girls would not end up with bids. Some would drop on their own and maybe some would just get shut out. There is actually another sorority returning to campus and their rush starts a few weeks later, so there are more spots, but I can see how a lot of girls would be hesitant to join a complete unknown.

The girls met all 16 houses (the new one, too) over a zoom that lasted about 10-15 minutes. Then, they split the houses into 11 yays and 4 less interested and ranked the 4. A LOT of girls got all the 4 ranked ones back. The system gives more invites to the less "popular" houses to increase interactions and encourage a better yield. You can image with 1500 girls, that means a lof of cuts. The time of the zoom wasn't enough to actually get to know the houses or for the houses to make an honest judgement call on the PNMs. Girls are "unofficially" advised to open their social media before rush starts, so you can see how influence and SM curation had a great impact.

OP - There are reasons girls want the "top" houses at UMich, but your daughter should ask if that's really her vibe. Some houses are better than others at creating an online image, but that doesn't mean they are a better house. My DD found some were surprising in both good and bad ways. So, so many girls were upset when the lists came out Friday. Your DD isn't going to be alone if she drops rush. I think a lot more will happen before pref. Also, I've heard so many times that girls don't drop their pre-greek friends at UM, so that shouldn't be a problem.

It's tough to watch, but I hope your daughter comes to a decision that makes her happy. Seriously, most people at UM aren't greek and there are a million clubs and little communities where she can find friendships.

I say this kindly, mom, but you need to land the helicopter and get your own life. No parent should know this much about the greek system at their child's school. This makes you sound utterly insane.

This is not kind at all and knowing this info is not abnormal. These girls are 18 years old, this process is awful, and it’s nice that they have moms who care enough to learn the details of the things that matter to them. It’s called a relationship. I wasn’t in a sorority but my daughter is and I love her, so I learned. Bug off.

It’s called enmeshment.

Enmeshment involves blurred boundaries & control, not parents being informed. You’re describing normal relational functioning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If someone is going to get involved with exclusionary organizations that will leave a certain percentage of people shut out, they need to be prepared to be that shut out person. Colleges that allow this stuff need to make sure there are places for everyone and that social life doesn't revolve around it.

Who gets to decide what "tier" a sorority is? And why would a sorority be concerned with anyone shallow enough to rank them? Does the dean not say hello to you if you're at the bottom of the sorority heap? Just do your thing and let other sororities do theirs.

Initiations and hazing sound so brutal and childish. I would hope college age people would be above it.

What world do you live in? Life is exclusionary.

It's the job of college administrators to foster an inclusive environment on campus, and that means not allowing fraternities and soririties to have undue control over campus life, which creates in groups and out groups. People shouldn't feel like second class citizens at college

No, it’s actually not. It’s the job of college administrators to see that your student gets an education. Whether or not they choose to participate in Greek life is up to them.

Frankly, I don’t see why any university allows “Greek” life. It’s got absolutely nothing to do with education.

Thanks for putting "Greek" in quotes. I knew several people from Greece in college and they thought it was so weird that this American system used Greek letters and everyone called themselves Greek and pan Hellenic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If someone is going to get involved with exclusionary organizations that will leave a certain percentage of people shut out, they need to be prepared to be that shut out person. Colleges that allow this stuff need to make sure there are places for everyone and that social life doesn't revolve around it.

Who gets to decide what "tier" a sorority is? And why would a sorority be concerned with anyone shallow enough to rank them? Does the dean not say hello to you if you're at the bottom of the sorority heap? Just do your thing and let other sororities do theirs.

Initiations and hazing sound so brutal and childish. I would hope college age people would be above it.

What world do you live in? Life is exclusionary.

It's the job of college administrators to foster an inclusive environment on campus, and that means not allowing fraternities and soririties to have undue control over campus life, which creates in groups and out groups. People shouldn't feel like second class citizens at college

No, it’s actually not. It’s the job of college administrators to see that your student gets an education. Whether or not they choose to participate in Greek life is up to them.

Frankly, I don’t see why any university allows “Greek” life. It’s got absolutely nothing to do with education.

By this argument there should be any non-academic clubs. A capella groups can be pretty cutthroat to join at some colleges, should they be allowed?

A capella is based on talent. Let me guess what talent sorority girls possess…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If someone is going to get involved with exclusionary organizations that will leave a certain percentage of people shut out, they need to be prepared to be that shut out person. Colleges that allow this stuff need to make sure there are places for everyone and that social life doesn't revolve around it.

Who gets to decide what "tier" a sorority is? And why would a sorority be concerned with anyone shallow enough to rank them? Does the dean not say hello to you if you're at the bottom of the sorority heap? Just do your thing and let other sororities do theirs.

Initiations and hazing sound so brutal and childish. I would hope college age people would be above it.

What world do you live in? Life is exclusionary.

It's the job of college administrators to foster an inclusive environment on campus, and that means not allowing fraternities and soririties to have undue control over campus life, which creates in groups and out groups. People shouldn't feel like second class citizens at college

No, it’s actually not. It’s the job of college administrators to see that your student gets an education. Whether or not they choose to participate in Greek life is up to them.

Frankly, I don’t see why any university allows “Greek” life. It’s got absolutely nothing to do with education.

By this argument there should be any non-academic clubs. A capella groups can be pretty cutthroat to join at some colleges, should they be allowed?

A capella is based on talent. Let me guess what talent sorority girls possess…

It's a fairly important skill, more important than you think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If someone is going to get involved with exclusionary organizations that will leave a certain percentage of people shut out, they need to be prepared to be that shut out person. Colleges that allow this stuff need to make sure there are places for everyone and that social life doesn't revolve around it.

Who gets to decide what "tier" a sorority is? And why would a sorority be concerned with anyone shallow enough to rank them? Does the dean not say hello to you if you're at the bottom of the sorority heap? Just do your thing and let other sororities do theirs.

Initiations and hazing sound so brutal and childish. I would hope college age people would be above it.

What world do you live in? Life is exclusionary.

It's the job of college administrators to foster an inclusive environment on campus, and that means not allowing fraternities and soririties to have undue control over campus life, which creates in groups and out groups. People shouldn't feel like second class citizens at college

No, it’s actually not. It’s the job of college administrators to see that your student gets an education. Whether or not they choose to participate in Greek life is up to them.

Frankly, I don’t see why any university allows “Greek” life. It’s got absolutely nothing to do with education.

By this argument there should be any non-academic clubs. A capella groups can be pretty cutthroat to join at some colleges, should they be allowed?

A capella is based on talent. Let me guess what talent sorority girls possess…

Professional fraternities are also very competitive and it’s all about who you know, not your skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP here to add some context.

Michigan had over 1500 girls sign up for rush this year. Of course it was a record year b/c those crazy 2007 babies are all still competing against each other. There were 15 houses participating in formal rush and you can assume a pledge class is around 70 people. That means 1/3 of the girls would not end up with bids. Some would drop on their own and maybe some would just get shut out. There is actually another sorority returning to campus and their rush starts a few weeks later, so there are more spots, but I can see how a lot of girls would be hesitant to join a complete unknown.

The girls met all 16 houses (the new one, too) over a zoom that lasted about 10-15 minutes. Then, they split the houses into 11 yays and 4 less interested and ranked the 4. A LOT of girls got all the 4 ranked ones back. The system gives more invites to the less "popular" houses to increase interactions and encourage a better yield. You can image with 1500 girls, that means a lof of cuts. The time of the zoom wasn't enough to actually get to know the houses or for the houses to make an honest judgement call on the PNMs. Girls are "unofficially" advised to open their social media before rush starts, so you can see how influence and SM curation had a great impact.

OP - There are reasons girls want the "top" houses at UMich, but your daughter should ask if that's really her vibe. Some houses are better than others at creating an online image, but that doesn't mean they are a better house. My DD found some were surprising in both good and bad ways. So, so many girls were upset when the lists came out Friday. Your DD isn't going to be alone if she drops rush. I think a lot more will happen before pref. Also, I've heard so many times that girls don't drop their pre-greek friends at UM, so that shouldn't be a problem.

It's tough to watch, but I hope your daughter comes to a decision that makes her happy. Seriously, most people at UM aren't greek and there are a million clubs and little communities where she can find friendships.

I say this kindly, mom, but you need to land the helicopter and get your own life. No parent should know this much about the greek system at their child's school. This makes you sound utterly insane.

This is not kind at all and knowing this info is not abnormal. These girls are 18 years old, this process is awful, and it’s nice that they have moms who care enough to learn the details of the things that matter to them. It’s called a relationship. I wasn’t in a sorority but my daughter is and I love her, so I learned. Bug off.

It’s called enmeshment.

Enmeshment involves blurred boundaries & control, not parents being informed. You’re describing normal relational functioning.

There are tons of blurred boundaries here. You are just too deep to see it.