When sorority rush goes wrong

[Anonymous]

I can't believe fraternities and sororities are still a thing. Good Lord who wants to be part of that shit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If someone is going to get involved with exclusionary organizations that will leave a certain percentage of people shut out, they need to be prepared to be that shut out person. Colleges that allow this stuff need to make sure there are places for everyone and that social life doesn't revolve around it.

Who gets to decide what "tier" a sorority is? And why would a sorority be concerned with anyone shallow enough to rank them? Does the dean not say hello to you if you're at the bottom of the sorority heap? Just do your thing and let other sororities do theirs.

Initiations and hazing sound so brutal and childish. I would hope college age people would be above it.

What world do you live in? Life is exclusionary.

It's the job of college administrators to foster an inclusive environment on campus, and that means not allowing fraternities and soririties to have undue control over campus life, which creates in groups and out groups. People shouldn't feel like second class citizens at college

No, it’s actually not. It’s the job of college administrators to see that your student gets an education. Whether or not they choose to participate in Greek life is up to them.

Frankly, I don’t see why any university allows “Greek” life. It’s got absolutely nothing to do with education.

By this argument there should be any non-academic clubs. A capella groups can be pretty cutthroat to join at some colleges, should they be allowed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP here to add some context.

Michigan had over 1500 girls sign up for rush this year. Of course it was a record year b/c those crazy 2007 babies are all still competing against each other. There were 15 houses participating in formal rush and you can assume a pledge class is around 70 people. That means 1/3 of the girls would not end up with bids. Some would drop on their own and maybe some would just get shut out. There is actually another sorority returning to campus and their rush starts a few weeks later, so there are more spots, but I can see how a lot of girls would be hesitant to join a complete unknown.

The girls met all 16 houses (the new one, too) over a zoom that lasted about 10-15 minutes. Then, they split the houses into 11 yays and 4 less interested and ranked the 4. A LOT of girls got all the 4 ranked ones back. The system gives more invites to the less "popular" houses to increase interactions and encourage a better yield. You can image with 1500 girls, that means a lof of cuts. The time of the zoom wasn't enough to actually get to know the houses or for the houses to make an honest judgement call on the PNMs. Girls are "unofficially" advised to open their social media before rush starts, so you can see how influence and SM curation had a great impact.

OP - There are reasons girls want the "top" houses at UMich, but your daughter should ask if that's really her vibe. Some houses are better than others at creating an online image, but that doesn't mean they are a better house. My DD found some were surprising in both good and bad ways. So, so many girls were upset when the lists came out Friday. Your DD isn't going to be alone if she drops rush. I think a lot more will happen before pref. Also, I've heard so many times that girls don't drop their pre-greek friends at UM, so that shouldn't be a problem.

It's tough to watch, but I hope your daughter comes to a decision that makes her happy. Seriously, most people at UM aren't greek and there are a million clubs and little communities where she can find friendships.

I say this kindly, mom, but you need to land the helicopter and get your own life. No parent should know this much about the greek system at their child's school. This makes you sound utterly insane.

It sounds like her dd goes to Michigan and is in a sorority there. I would imagine the dd knows these details, or learned them while prepping for rush, and mentioned them to mom when she was home on holiday break or something. I highly doubt pp just like, googled the number of girls signing up for rush.

Do some of you think parents should cut off all contact with their children the day they turn 18 or something?

No but that is a ridiculous level of detail - she knows the exact number of girls who rushed, the exact number of sororities, that one joined at the last minute, etc., who knows THAT much???

Anyone whose daughter loves to call them and share.

[Anonymous]

1500 isn’t the exact number. It’s 1512. :p it’s right on their social media page.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:She should go where she matches and not worry about staying with her friends. If she ends up not liking it after a semester, she can pivot.

Pivot to what? If you join a sorority and decide to quit, you're done with Greek life. You can't try to get a bid at another house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP
Michigan. She was already struggling with the size of the school and had been holding out hope that this would help her with community.

Only 18% of Michigan undergrads are in fraternities/sororities. I truly don't understand why she thinks this is the only way she can find community. What else has she done?

For a huge school like M and super small, like W&L, you need to find your "people" and be "sorted." NYC privates, midwestern UMC, or southern private etc. Unfortunately at these places this is the game and if you aren't in the stereotypical house for your type, it can feel very tough. If you are middle class no connections at EITHER of these type of schools, life can be hard...and you can't go in blind, like it seems this op may have.It is what it is unfortunately, starts before college.

This is true, and, I hate to say it, the sorting lasts your whole like in country clubs, private schools etc. IF you go to one of these heavy greek schools, and you tell someone at the club that you went to said school, they will ask "oh, were you a ZTA?" and you say "no, I was a [insert low tier sorority]" they will smile and move on. I hate it, but at that $$$ level, people can be ruthless. This is if you're white, if you're Asian, no one expects you to be greek, which makes it easier.

You may not know this, but a lot of people just don’t live this way.

Agree most people do not live this way. But I have had this question asked of me and I am 50! Ridiculous. The person was clearly trying to pull rank so I just demurred and walked away. It is pathetic when people are still trading on this stuff decades later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP here to add some context.

Michigan had over 1500 girls sign up for rush this year. Of course it was a record year b/c those crazy 2007 babies are all still competing against each other. There were 15 houses participating in formal rush and you can assume a pledge class is around 70 people. That means 1/3 of the girls would not end up with bids. Some would drop on their own and maybe some would just get shut out. There is actually another sorority returning to campus and their rush starts a few weeks later, so there are more spots, but I can see how a lot of girls would be hesitant to join a complete unknown.

The girls met all 16 houses (the new one, too) over a zoom that lasted about 10-15 minutes. Then, they split the houses into 11 yays and 4 less interested and ranked the 4. A LOT of girls got all the 4 ranked ones back. The system gives more invites to the less "popular" houses to increase interactions and encourage a better yield. You can image with 1500 girls, that means a lof of cuts. The time of the zoom wasn't enough to actually get to know the houses or for the houses to make an honest judgement call on the PNMs. Girls are "unofficially" advised to open their social media before rush starts, so you can see how influence and SM curation had a great impact.

OP - There are reasons girls want the "top" houses at UMich, but your daughter should ask if that's really her vibe. Some houses are better than others at creating an online image, but that doesn't mean they are a better house. My DD found some were surprising in both good and bad ways. So, so many girls were upset when the lists came out Friday. Your DD isn't going to be alone if she drops rush. I think a lot more will happen before pref. Also, I've heard so many times that girls don't drop their pre-greek friends at UM, so that shouldn't be a problem.

It's tough to watch, but I hope your daughter comes to a decision that makes her happy. Seriously, most people at UM aren't greek and there are a million clubs and little communities where she can find friendships.

I say this kindly, mom, but you need to land the helicopter and get your own life. No parent should know this much about the greek system at their child's school. This makes you sound utterly insane.

It sounds like her dd goes to Michigan and is in a sorority there. I would imagine the dd knows these details, or learned them while prepping for rush, and mentioned them to mom when she was home on holiday break or something. I highly doubt pp just like, googled the number of girls signing up for rush.

Do some of you think parents should cut off all contact with their children the day they turn 18 or something?

No but that is a ridiculous level of detail - she knows the exact number of girls who rushed, the exact number of sororities, that one joined at the last minute, etc., who knows THAT much???

My DD is at another school with winter rush. I know (from her) the exact number of girls registered for rush, the exact number of sororites, her friend who Just registered last week etc. I know what houses her "contacts" are in.

I am close to my kids. We talk or text several times a day. This is a BIG even in their life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP here to add some context.

Michigan had over 1500 girls sign up for rush this year. Of course it was a record year b/c those crazy 2007 babies are all still competing against each other. There were 15 houses participating in formal rush and you can assume a pledge class is around 70 people. That means 1/3 of the girls would not end up with bids. Some would drop on their own and maybe some would just get shut out. There is actually another sorority returning to campus and their rush starts a few weeks later, so there are more spots, but I can see how a lot of girls would be hesitant to join a complete unknown.

The girls met all 16 houses (the new one, too) over a zoom that lasted about 10-15 minutes. Then, they split the houses into 11 yays and 4 less interested and ranked the 4. A LOT of girls got all the 4 ranked ones back. The system gives more invites to the less "popular" houses to increase interactions and encourage a better yield. You can image with 1500 girls, that means a lof of cuts. The time of the zoom wasn't enough to actually get to know the houses or for the houses to make an honest judgement call on the PNMs. Girls are "unofficially" advised to open their social media before rush starts, so you can see how influence and SM curation had a great impact.

OP - There are reasons girls want the "top" houses at UMich, but your daughter should ask if that's really her vibe. Some houses are better than others at creating an online image, but that doesn't mean they are a better house. My DD found some were surprising in both good and bad ways. So, so many girls were upset when the lists came out Friday. Your DD isn't going to be alone if she drops rush. I think a lot more will happen before pref. Also, I've heard so many times that girls don't drop their pre-greek friends at UM, so that shouldn't be a problem.

It's tough to watch, but I hope your daughter comes to a decision that makes her happy. Seriously, most people at UM aren't greek and there are a million clubs and little communities where she can find friendships.

I say this kindly, mom, but you need to land the helicopter and get your own life. No parent should know this much about the greek system at their child's school. This makes you sound utterly insane.

It sounds like her dd goes to Michigan and is in a sorority there. I would imagine the dd knows these details, or learned them while prepping for rush, and mentioned them to mom when she was home on holiday break or something. I highly doubt pp just like, googled the number of girls signing up for rush.

Do some of you think parents should cut off all contact with their children the day they turn 18 or something?

No but that is a ridiculous level of detail - she knows the exact number of girls who rushed, the exact number of sororities, that one joined at the last minute, etc., who knows THAT much???

My DD is at another school with winter rush. I know (from her) the exact number of girls registered for rush, the exact number of sororites, her friend who Just registered last week etc. I know what houses her "contacts" are in.

I am close to my kids. We talk or text several times a day. This is a BIG even in their life.

Same. Mine sent her schedule when it came out b/c she was excited to share. This is a big thing for these girls and a lot of them tell their parents about the whole thing. I know her favorites and what she liked about different houses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP here to add some context.

Michigan had over 1500 girls sign up for rush this year. Of course it was a record year b/c those crazy 2007 babies are all still competing against each other. There were 15 houses participating in formal rush and you can assume a pledge class is around 70 people. That means 1/3 of the girls would not end up with bids. Some would drop on their own and maybe some would just get shut out. There is actually another sorority returning to campus and their rush starts a few weeks later, so there are more spots, but I can see how a lot of girls would be hesitant to join a complete unknown.

The girls met all 16 houses (the new one, too) over a zoom that lasted about 10-15 minutes. Then, they split the houses into 11 yays and 4 less interested and ranked the 4. A LOT of girls got all the 4 ranked ones back. The system gives more invites to the less "popular" houses to increase interactions and encourage a better yield. You can image with 1500 girls, that means a lof of cuts. The time of the zoom wasn't enough to actually get to know the houses or for the houses to make an honest judgement call on the PNMs. Girls are "unofficially" advised to open their social media before rush starts, so you can see how influence and SM curation had a great impact.

OP - There are reasons girls want the "top" houses at UMich, but your daughter should ask if that's really her vibe. Some houses are better than others at creating an online image, but that doesn't mean they are a better house. My DD found some were surprising in both good and bad ways. So, so many girls were upset when the lists came out Friday. Your DD isn't going to be alone if she drops rush. I think a lot more will happen before pref. Also, I've heard so many times that girls don't drop their pre-greek friends at UM, so that shouldn't be a problem.

It's tough to watch, but I hope your daughter comes to a decision that makes her happy. Seriously, most people at UM aren't greek and there are a million clubs and little communities where she can find friendships.

I say this kindly, mom, but you need to land the helicopter and get your own life. No parent should know this much about the greek system at their child's school. This makes you sound utterly insane.

It sounds like her dd goes to Michigan and is in a sorority there. I would imagine the dd knows these details, or learned them while prepping for rush, and mentioned them to mom when she was home on holiday break or something. I highly doubt pp just like, googled the number of girls signing up for rush.

Do some of you think parents should cut off all contact with their children the day they turn 18 or something?

No but that is a ridiculous level of detail - she knows the exact number of girls who rushed, the exact number of sororities, that one joined at the last minute, etc., who knows THAT much???

My DD is at another school with winter rush. I know (from her) the exact number of girls registered for rush, the exact number of sororites, her friend who Just registered last week etc. I know what houses her "contacts" are in.

I am close to my kids. We talk or text several times a day. This is a BIG even in their life.

Same. Mine sent her schedule when it came out b/c she was excited to share. This is a big thing for these girls and a lot of them tell their parents about the whole thing. I know her favorites and what she liked about different houses.

+1
I mean we shopped for all of the clothes over winter break and her younger sister helped with the outfits. Its exciting. Its a big deal for these kids.

[Anonymous]

Same here. My college daughter calls/texts me multiple times a day, every day. Rush is a big deal so it comes up. I don't know stats but I've received the play-by-play of her experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If someone is going to get involved with exclusionary organizations that will leave a certain percentage of people shut out, they need to be prepared to be that shut out person. Colleges that allow this stuff need to make sure there are places for everyone and that social life doesn't revolve around it.

Who gets to decide what "tier" a sorority is? And why would a sorority be concerned with anyone shallow enough to rank them? Does the dean not say hello to you if you're at the bottom of the sorority heap? Just do your thing and let other sororities do theirs.

Initiations and hazing sound so brutal and childish. I would hope college age people would be above it.

What world do you live in? Life is exclusionary.

It's the job of college administrators to foster an inclusive environment on campus, and that means not allowing fraternities and soririties to have undue control over campus life, which creates in groups and out groups. People shouldn't feel like second class citizens at college

No, it’s actually not. It’s the job of college administrators to see that your student gets an education. Whether or not they choose to participate in Greek life is up to them.

Frankly, I don’t see why any university allows “Greek” life. It’s got absolutely nothing to do with education.

Because it’s repeatedly shown that Greek life increases a student and then alums loyalty to the school, thus becoming higher alum donors. This plays out over and over. Follow the money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At my DD’s school, the members already know 80% of the girls they want before rush even starts. They are looking at social media and asking friends from the same area high schools what they know about the girls. This starts before rush even starts. If your DD is interested in rush, have her create an image on insta, VSCO, tiktok, etc. before ever arriving. I mean this sincerely. Travel photos, lots of shots with groups of pretty girls, pictures of your DD where she looks really good, etc. Delete all photos that don’t meet these criteria.

Translation: she needs to look like your family has a lot of money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP here to add some context.

Michigan had over 1500 girls sign up for rush this year. Of course it was a record year b/c those crazy 2007 babies are all still competing against each other. There were 15 houses participating in formal rush and you can assume a pledge class is around 70 people. That means 1/3 of the girls would not end up with bids. Some would drop on their own and maybe some would just get shut out. There is actually another sorority returning to campus and their rush starts a few weeks later, so there are more spots, but I can see how a lot of girls would be hesitant to join a complete unknown.

The girls met all 16 houses (the new one, too) over a zoom that lasted about 10-15 minutes. Then, they split the houses into 11 yays and 4 less interested and ranked the 4. A LOT of girls got all the 4 ranked ones back. The system gives more invites to the less "popular" houses to increase interactions and encourage a better yield. You can image with 1500 girls, that means a lof of cuts. The time of the zoom wasn't enough to actually get to know the houses or for the houses to make an honest judgement call on the PNMs. Girls are "unofficially" advised to open their social media before rush starts, so you can see how influence and SM curation had a great impact.

OP - There are reasons girls want the "top" houses at UMich, but your daughter should ask if that's really her vibe. Some houses are better than others at creating an online image, but that doesn't mean they are a better house. My DD found some were surprising in both good and bad ways. So, so many girls were upset when the lists came out Friday. Your DD isn't going to be alone if she drops rush. I think a lot more will happen before pref. Also, I've heard so many times that girls don't drop their pre-greek friends at UM, so that shouldn't be a problem.

It's tough to watch, but I hope your daughter comes to a decision that makes her happy. Seriously, most people at UM aren't greek and there are a million clubs and little communities where she can find friendships.

I say this kindly, mom, but you need to land the helicopter and get your own life. No parent should know this much about the greek system at their child's school. This makes you sound utterly insane.

+1. PP I hope you don’t talk to people like this IRL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I can't believe fraternities and sororities are still a thing. Good Lord who wants to be part of that shit.

They are, especially at state schools, extremely protected by both statutory law and judicial interpretation of the Constitution (freedom of association). I don't like it either, but that's the rules. Frat daddies are overrepresented among congressmen and judges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My daughter is a junior and has been on the sister side of rush twice. Top/mid. Believe me, there have been girls her sorority wanted and did not get; it works both ways. Curiously the house can want the pnm and the pmn can want the house but still not pair, because the girls are on a long ranked list and if a girl is ranked higher by another house…welp. And the larger sororities there don’t do COB. Nevertheless my daughter loves the Greek experience. She has friends in lots of other houses and lives with girls from 3-4 different sororities. Also, several of the very popular houses have been put on probation for drinking so they cannot have any social events. So maybe the tiptop isn’t all that great after all, sometimes. This stinks for a new member to join a group and find out there will be no date parties. Despite all that, my daughter enjoys being Greek; she kept all her old friends just fine and it has really expanded her connections.

This happened to me. I wanted a “lower ranked” house (that had nicer girls) and ranked them first after prefs but ended up getting into a “higher ranked” house full of party girls. I went along joining but never felt I really belonged and ended up sharing an apt junior and senior year with friends from the sorority I didn’t get into.