Would you consider having a revenge affair/ fling if your spouse had an affair and you decided to stay together?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After my husband cheated on me, lied about it, and blew up our marriage, I put so much pressure on myself to get past it and get back to normal, even though he never really apologized. And it wasn't just what he'd done to me, it was that those things were symptomatic of larger patterns of lying, control, and entitlement. I wish I'd said "things are different now" and not continued to be available to him both sexually and emotionally instead of spending years trying to be ok.

I think if you are not going to be monogamous, you should tell your spouse. But I don't think it's crazy to say, they broke the agreement and you are not obligated to abide by it. If they don't like that, they can be the one to end the marriage.

The bold is so true. Cheating is not so much about the sex (or lack thereof); it is more about lying, control and entitlement. The problem of cheating is BOTH non-monogamous sex in the context of prior agreement by both parties to monogamy AND lying about it to control the reaction of the spouse thus revealing the cheater's sense of entitlement.

It's wild to me that so many people in this thread feel that the cheater is entitled to his victim's continued monogamy and honesty - as if the perpetrator is entitled to continue to control his victim's behavior.

I’m kind of alarmed at people’s understanding of what “honesty” means in the context of being a decent, ethical person.

I’m not honest to someone as some sort of favor to them, I’m honest because I am an honest person who holds myself to a higher standard. If I don’t want to be in a relationship with someone that involves honesty, my only reasonable option is exiting that relationship.

A lot of this seems to be about some ugly power dynamics and seizing control back from cheaters and that’s fine but seriously you might as well leave.

You really fail to get it. Honesty is contextual. It’s not the same in every context. A discreet affair after your spouse cheated isn’t dishonest.

You believe this b.s.? Really? You think honesty is contextual? That is completely made up b.s.

Do you tell everyone exactly what you think of them? Do you confess embarassing things about yourself to your boss? Do you feel obligated to tell your partner every time you look at/think about someone else?

Declining to inform your partner of an affair is not in the same league as declining to tell your girlfriend her haircut is bad or whatever other example you come up with.

#cheaterlogic

[Anonymous]

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OP here, opening it up is not an option…spouse won’t go for it. Wants me 100% committed to making things work. In addition, I have the need now to get away with something behind their back to even the score.

And no, I don’t want to look at divorce until the kids are gone.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
OP here, my issue is the kids are a big part of my life. I want to spend time with them every single day until they are in college…I can get over the anger of the betrayal( temporarily at least) by engaging in a few long term flings myself. And maybe with time I can forgive.

I would rather not get divorced now and share custody. So my solution is to have my fun on the side( secretly) and hold things together. The revenge fling is giving me enough of a dopamine high that I can fake that everything is fine for now and it pacifies my anger.

I didn’t ask to be in this predicament. But it’s the best I can do to hold things together.

Anonymous wrote:I’m not going to lose my integrity to get my revenge. I will get it in a settlement.

But why lie about it? If you are staying for the kids, just have an open marriage. Whatever.

Or is it the lying that makes you feel good?

So he gets to dictate all terms of your new marriage? The old marriage died when he betrayed you. If you stay you will be building a new one (which may end up to be a better one) and that takes time. You can’t just magically begin to trust him again just b/c he says he’s sorry. It’s not fair to expect you to process the betrayal, basically be forced into staying b/c of the kids AND trust him again all in a matter of weeks or months. What do YOU need to be able to move forward? Do you need him to feel the same pain of betrayal so you feel understood? Most men divorce when their wives cheat - they can’t handle that pain. Too humiliating.

IMHO if you really feel like you have to stay for the kids, then do what YOU need to do to move forward. You don’t owe him honesty until he’s earned your trust back.

Oh, ewww... Honesty is for YOU, because you're an honest person. It's not some sort of bonus that needs to be earned. You're either honest or you're not. If you are, cheating and other dishonest behaviors are off the menu. If you're not, no amount of someone else being trustworthy is going to make you more honest.

As someone who has been in this situation, I'll just say..... healthy adults have boundaries. I don't go around telling total strangers personal things about myself - how I feel, what I know (or don't), whether I am having sex (or not), making promises about the future - that kind of information is for people I know and trust (trust that they won't use it to manipulate me). My husband essentially became a stranger overnight to me - everything I thought I knew about him was a lie. Of course he doesn't enjoy the same level of honesty from me that he had before. I'm not going to engage in lies of
commission, but there's an awful lot I don't share or won't answer and that is for my own safety.

DP. I agree. We do not owe everyone all information. And furthermore, there’s nothing dishonest about an affair after your spouse has done the same. They are no longer entitled to that level of information.

This is disgusting. "He cheated, so I don't have to tell him I'm cheating to because it's not cheating because he cheated"

That's a LOT of mental yoga, PP.

DP, the idea that a victim spouse would be “cheating” to step out on the cheater spouse assumes that there is 1) a continuing obligation to be monogamous and 2) that there is an obligation to share with one’s spouse any non-monogamous activity.

As the victim spouse, I believe that the cheater spouse, by the act of cheating breaks the monogamy contract and the result of that is that the victim spouse no longer has either obligation 1 or 2 above.

It’s not about “revenge”. It’s the simple logic of contracts/bargains. If I explicitly bargain with you that that we both agree not to do X, and you do X (and worse yet, do it in secret because you know if you tell me *I* might react in a way you don’t want), then our bargain is over, and there is no obligation on me to continue to perform my end of the bargain.

The cheater spouse may (delusionally) expect continued monogamy from the victim spouse, but that strikes me as pretty narcissistic and unreasonable. Some victim spouses may agree to re-negotiate monogamy (for a wide variety of reasons), but no victim spouse is obliged to continue to be monogamous after cheating.

There's your trouble: victimese. You're no longer yourself, beholden to your own integrity standards. You're "a victim" so the rules no longer matter, nor does your integrity, and you'll do whatever.

Which makes you just as bad as the perp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After my husband cheated on me, lied about it, and blew up our marriage, I put so much pressure on myself to get past it and get back to normal, even though he never really apologized. And it wasn't just what he'd done to me, it was that those things were symptomatic of larger patterns of lying, control, and entitlement. I wish I'd said "things are different now" and not continued to be available to him both sexually and emotionally instead of spending years trying to be ok.

I think if you are not going to be monogamous, you should tell your spouse. But I don't think it's crazy to say, they broke the agreement and you are not obligated to abide by it. If they don't like that, they can be the one to end the marriage.

The bold is so true. Cheating is not so much about the sex (or lack thereof); it is more about lying, control and entitlement. The problem of cheating is BOTH non-monogamous sex in the context of prior agreement by both parties to monogamy AND lying about it to control the reaction of the spouse thus revealing the cheater's sense of entitlement.

It's wild to me that so many people in this thread feel that the cheater is entitled to his victim's continued monogamy and honesty - as if the perpetrator is entitled to continue to control his victim's behavior.

I’m kind of alarmed at people’s understanding of what “honesty” means in the context of being a decent, ethical person.

I’m not honest to someone as some sort of favor to them, I’m honest because I am an honest person who holds myself to a higher standard. If I don’t want to be in a relationship with someone that involves honesty, my only reasonable option is exiting that relationship.

A lot of this seems to be about some ugly power dynamics and seizing control back from cheaters and that’s fine but seriously you might as well leave.

This.

Just because they cheat doesn't mean you also have to/get to become a cheater. You can leave and remain true to yourself and your values.

Lotta folx on this thread telling about themselves. "I'm only honest/loyal/decent IF..." Nah, sweetie. You are or you aren't. Pick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cheating is cheating regardless of who did it first. Revenge cheating may make you feel better, it’sjaut a justification for being an a$$hole like the cheating spouse.

Deal with it head on. Deal with the “broken agreement” or not. But anything else is just cheating. And your little better than your spouse.

Put yourself in OPs shoes - OP sounds like she’s at DD +1 week, or 1 month? She’s having to “deal with” a lot right now. She discovered the betrayal, contemplated divorce, been to a few couples therapy sessions and reluctantly made a decision to stay for the kids. This is likely NOT a decision she wants to make but feels she must. She’s got a lot to deal with that her cheating spouse does not have to deal with. And now she has to deal with re-starting a marriage with someone she would NEVER choose to be with if kids weren’t involved. The cheating spouse is not in this same situation. He broke her trust and now is re-starting a marriage with someone he trusts.

Part of “dealing with it” is having sex with someone she doesn’t trust anymore. They are starting this new relationship from two very different starting points. Maybe OP needs to have a fling to get to the starting point (or at least tell herself that she CAN have one if she wants to). Quite certain the cheating spouse isn’t going to wait for her to regain trust before they start having sex again. It’s not great to start a relationship when people aren’t honest with one other, but OP is being forced to do just that.

OMFG. No!

You don't have to have sex with your spouse who cheated. And having a fling is inherently having sex with someone (else) you don't trust. How does fscking someone else help a spouse trust their cheating spouse?!

This is so gross.

[Anonymous]

It helps the victim spouse move on! If you are a victim, do it. If you want to stay because of the kids, your choice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cheating is cheating regardless of who did it first. Revenge cheating may make you feel better, it’sjaut a justification for being an a$$hole like the cheating spouse.

Deal with it head on. Deal with the “broken agreement” or not. But anything else is just cheating. And your little better than your spouse.

Put yourself in OPs shoes - OP sounds like she’s at DD +1 week, or 1 month? She’s having to “deal with” a lot right now. She discovered the betrayal, contemplated divorce, been to a few couples therapy sessions and reluctantly made a decision to stay for the kids. This is likely NOT a decision she wants to make but feels she must. She’s got a lot to deal with that her cheating spouse does not have to deal with. And now she has to deal with re-starting a marriage with someone she would NEVER choose to be with if kids weren’t involved. The cheating spouse is not in this same situation. He broke her trust and now is re-starting a marriage with someone he trusts.

Part of “dealing with it” is having sex with someone she doesn’t trust anymore. They are starting this new relationship from two very different starting points. Maybe OP needs to have a fling to get to the starting point (or at least tell herself that she CAN have one if she wants to). Quite certain the cheating spouse isn’t going to wait for her to regain trust before they start having sex again. It’s not great to start a relationship when people aren’t honest with one other, but OP is being forced to do just that.

OMFG. No!

You don't have to have sex with your spouse who cheated. And having a fling is inherently having sex with someone (else) you don't trust. How does fscking someone else help a spouse trust their cheating spouse?!

This is so gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It helps the victim spouse move on! If you are a victim, do it. If you want to stay because of the kids, your choice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cheating is cheating regardless of who did it first. Revenge cheating may make you feel better, it’sjaut a justification for being an a$$hole like the cheating spouse.

Deal with it head on. Deal with the “broken agreement” or not. But anything else is just cheating. And your little better than your spouse.

Put yourself in OPs shoes - OP sounds like she’s at DD +1 week, or 1 month? She’s having to “deal with” a lot right now. She discovered the betrayal, contemplated divorce, been to a few couples therapy sessions and reluctantly made a decision to stay for the kids. This is likely NOT a decision she wants to make but feels she must. She’s got a lot to deal with that her cheating spouse does not have to deal with. And now she has to deal with re-starting a marriage with someone she would NEVER choose to be with if kids weren’t involved. The cheating spouse is not in this same situation. He broke her trust and now is re-starting a marriage with someone he trusts.

Part of “dealing with it” is having sex with someone she doesn’t trust anymore. They are starting this new relationship from two very different starting points. Maybe OP needs to have a fling to get to the starting point (or at least tell herself that she CAN have one if she wants to). Quite certain the cheating spouse isn’t going to wait for her to regain trust before they start having sex again. It’s not great to start a relationship when people aren’t honest with one other, but OP is being forced to do just that.

OMFG. No!

You don't have to have sex with your spouse who cheated. And having a fling is inherently having sex with someone (else) you don't trust. How does fscking someone else help a spouse trust their cheating spouse?!

This is so gross.

Do you understand how unhealthy it is to make your entire identity "victim" and then decide that as a victim, you no longer have to follow the same ethics and morals you had before? I would dare say this is actually narcissistic behavior and suggests there was something not right with you before you became a "victim" of your spouse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It helps the victim spouse move on! If you are a victim, do it. If you want to stay because of the kids, your choice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cheating is cheating regardless of who did it first. Revenge cheating may make you feel better, it’sjaut a justification for being an a$$hole like the cheating spouse.

Deal with it head on. Deal with the “broken agreement” or not. But anything else is just cheating. And your little better than your spouse.

Put yourself in OPs shoes - OP sounds like she’s at DD +1 week, or 1 month? She’s having to “deal with” a lot right now. She discovered the betrayal, contemplated divorce, been to a few couples therapy sessions and reluctantly made a decision to stay for the kids. This is likely NOT a decision she wants to make but feels she must. She’s got a lot to deal with that her cheating spouse does not have to deal with. And now she has to deal with re-starting a marriage with someone she would NEVER choose to be with if kids weren’t involved. The cheating spouse is not in this same situation. He broke her trust and now is re-starting a marriage with someone he trusts.

Part of “dealing with it” is having sex with someone she doesn’t trust anymore. They are starting this new relationship from two very different starting points. Maybe OP needs to have a fling to get to the starting point (or at least tell herself that she CAN have one if she wants to). Quite certain the cheating spouse isn’t going to wait for her to regain trust before they start having sex again. It’s not great to start a relationship when people aren’t honest with one other, but OP is being forced to do just that.

OMFG. No!

You don't have to have sex with your spouse who cheated. And having a fling is inherently having sex with someone (else) you don't trust. How does fscking someone else help a spouse trust their cheating spouse?!

This is so gross.

Do you understand how unhealthy it is to make your entire identity "victim" and then decide that as a victim, you no longer have to follow the same ethics and morals you had before? I would dare say this is actually narcissistic behavior and suggests there was something not right with you before you became a "victim" of your spouse.

This. If you're already a "victim" why (re)victimize yourself? Divorce a person who abuses you, go heal alone, and refuse to adopt the permanent "victim" identity (you probably had this from the start, though).

[Anonymous]

It’s the opposite. You are not being a victim by having a revenge affair..you are asserting your agency.

You are treating your spouse as they treated you. At that point if you feel healed you can stay in the relationship for the kids. If not, you leave.

When your spouse cheats but you feel you need to stay in the marriage for what ever the reason, you are a victim. By having secret revenge sex you are asserting yourself.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It helps the victim spouse move on! If you are a victim, do it. If you want to stay because of the kids, your choice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cheating is cheating regardless of who did it first. Revenge cheating may make you feel better, it’sjaut a justification for being an a$$hole like the cheating spouse.

Deal with it head on. Deal with the “broken agreement” or not. But anything else is just cheating. And your little better than your spouse.

Put yourself in OPs shoes - OP sounds like she’s at DD +1 week, or 1 month? She’s having to “deal with” a lot right now. She discovered the betrayal, contemplated divorce, been to a few couples therapy sessions and reluctantly made a decision to stay for the kids. This is likely NOT a decision she wants to make but feels she must. She’s got a lot to deal with that her cheating spouse does not have to deal with. And now she has to deal with re-starting a marriage with someone she would NEVER choose to be with if kids weren’t involved. The cheating spouse is not in this same situation. He broke her trust and now is re-starting a marriage with someone he trusts.

Part of “dealing with it” is having sex with someone she doesn’t trust anymore. They are starting this new relationship from two very different starting points. Maybe OP needs to have a fling to get to the starting point (or at least tell herself that she CAN have one if she wants to). Quite certain the cheating spouse isn’t going to wait for her to regain trust before they start having sex again. It’s not great to start a relationship when people aren’t honest with one other, but OP is being forced to do just that.

OMFG. No!

You don't have to have sex with your spouse who cheated. And having a fling is inherently having sex with someone (else) you don't trust. How does fscking someone else help a spouse trust their cheating spouse?!

This is so gross.

Do you understand how unhealthy it is to make your entire identity "victim" and then decide that as a victim, you no longer have to follow the same ethics and morals you had before? I would dare say this is actually narcissistic behavior and suggests there was something not right with you before you became a "victim" of your spouse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
It’s the opposite. You are not being a victim by having a revenge affair..you are asserting your agency.

You are treating your spouse as they treated you. At that point if you feel healed you can stay in the relationship for the kids. If not, you leave.

When your spouse cheats but you feel you need to stay in the marriage for what ever the reason, you are a victim. By having secret revenge sex you are asserting yourself.

Listen, Trashy: When your spouse cheats, you have the agency to stay or leave. If you use your spouse's infidelity as justification for your own, you're okay with cheating and you always were.

Ever heard "two wrongs don't make a right"? Doing the hurtful thing back doesn't equal "asserting yourself". It equals degrading yourself. Now you're just as dirty as your cheating spouse. Gross.

Have some self respect and leave, or choose to stay, but only cheaters cheat. There's no "well, they did it first" loophole. You're either a cheater or you think cheating is wrong and you don't cheat.

[Anonymous]

The intensity of your response tells me that you were a cheater and are hoping and praying that your betrayed better half does not have an affair or get a few fucX buddies!

quote=Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
It’s the opposite. You are not being a victim by having a revenge affair..you are asserting your agency.

You are treating your spouse as they treated you. At that point if you feel healed you can stay in the relationship for the kids. If not, you leave.

When your spouse cheats but you feel you need to stay in the marriage for what ever the reason, you are a victim. By having secret revenge sex you are asserting yourself.

Listen, Trashy: When your spouse cheats, you have the agency to stay or leave. If you use your spouse's infidelity as justification for your own, you're okay with cheating and you always were.

Ever heard "two wrongs don't make a right"? Doing the hurtful thing back doesn't equal "asserting yourself". It equals degrading yourself. Now you're just as dirty as your cheating spouse. Gross.

Have some self respect and leave, or choose to stay, but only cheaters cheat. There's no "well, they did it first" loophole. You're either a cheater or you think cheating is wrong and you don't cheat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:After my husband cheated on me, lied about it, and blew up our marriage, I put so much pressure on myself to get past it and get back to normal, even though he never really apologized. And it wasn't just what he'd done to me, it was that those things were symptomatic of larger patterns of lying, control, and entitlement. I wish I'd said "things are different now" and not continued to be available to him both sexually and emotionally instead of spending years trying to be ok.

I think if you are not going to be monogamous, you should tell your spouse. But I don't think it's crazy to say, they broke the agreement and you are not obligated to abide by it. If they don't like that, they can be the one to end the marriage.

Curious, how did you find out about affair?