Is the line between "courtship" and harassment really that blurry?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are making this too complicated.

1) If a person is preoccupied with something, the are not looking to talk. Stranger reading a book/paper/phone, leave them alone.

2) If someone says no, ignores you, or whatever, leave them alone.

3) Do not touch anyone you don't have permission to touch. This goes doubly so for the private parts.

The above applies to men or women.

Note: rule 1 mostly applies to strangers. If you see someone you know, you can say hi.

2 & 3 are spot on. Not sure I’ve ever see strangers in public that are not preoccupied? If you don’t want strangers to meet in public places, just say so.

#1is also clear, and this seems to be the one where all you posters seem to be being the most obtuse. Is the person doing something else, like reading a book/paper/using a laptop/staring blankly into space? Leave them alone. Making continued or frequent eye contact with you, chatting and smiling? Yeah, then you can approach.

Simple rule - if you don’t get eye contact and at least a smile, just leave them to do what they’re doing.

You could more simply and honestly say: “unattractive guys need not apply”.

so who cares if a woman is more willing to talk to an attractive man? does she not get to decide who she talks to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
so who cares if a woman is more willing to talk to an attractive man? does she not get to decide who she talks to?

Standards of what constitutes harassment shouldn't hinge on your level of attractiveness with more restrictive standards of behavior imposed on people simply because they're unattractive. That doesn't mean women should have to date ugly guys, but it seems a little arbitrary to say that a man has behaved badly initiating a social encounter because he's ugly when you wouldn't characterize the exact same behavior the same way if the guy happened to be attractive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
so who cares if a woman is more willing to talk to an attractive man? does she not get to decide who she talks to?

Standards of what constitutes harassment shouldn't hinge on your level of attractiveness with more restrictive standards of behavior imposed on people simply because they're unattractive. That doesn't mean women should have to date ugly guys, but it seems a little arbitrary to say that a man has behaved badly initiating a social encounter because he's ugly when you wouldn't characterize the exact same behavior the same way if the guy happened to be attractive.

Says the unattractive person.

[Anonymous]

Although 12 years old the following SNL skit seems relevant:

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/sexual-harassment/2751966?snl=1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
so who cares if a woman is more willing to talk to an attractive man? does she not get to decide who she talks to?

Standards of what constitutes harassment shouldn't hinge on your level of attractiveness with more restrictive standards of behavior imposed on people simply because they're unattractive. That doesn't mean women should have to date ugly guys, but it seems a little arbitrary to say that a man has behaved badly initiating a social encounter because he's ugly when you wouldn't characterize the exact same behavior the same way if the guy happened to be attractive.

It’s not about attractive and unattractive. It’s about wanted and unwanted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
so who cares if a woman is more willing to talk to an attractive man? does she not get to decide who she talks to?

Standards of what constitutes harassment shouldn't hinge on your level of attractiveness with more restrictive standards of behavior imposed on people simply because they're unattractive. That doesn't mean women should have to date ugly guys, but it seems a little arbitrary to say that a man has behaved badly initiating a social encounter because he's ugly when you wouldn't characterize the exact same behavior the same way if the guy happened to be attractive.

jfk. Harassment is literally defined as the conduct being "unwanted." That means that yes, the woman gets to decide if a particular man is attractive to her, and therefore the conduct is OK. Are you suggesting that women must be forced to speak to ir date all men and can't decide for herself? And on the flip side, do you somehow imagine that all women welcome sexual attention from men if they are attractive?

[Anonymous]

be safe - don't do or say anything at work. don't be alone with a woman

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
so who cares if a woman is more willing to talk to an attractive man? does she not get to decide who she talks to?

Standards of what constitutes harassment shouldn't hinge on your level of attractiveness with more restrictive standards of behavior imposed on people simply because they're unattractive. That doesn't mean women should have to date ugly guys, but it seems a little arbitrary to say that a man has behaved badly initiating a social encounter because he's ugly when you wouldn't characterize the exact same behavior the same way if the guy happened to be attractive.

I hear the pain behind your post, and suggest that women aren’t avoiding you because of your physical appearance. They are avoiding you because of your social ineptitude and the fact that you are likely a boor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:be safe - don't do or say anything at work. don't be alone with a woman

Or rather, treat women as equals and don’t be an a$$hole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:be safe - don't do or say anything at work. don't be alone with a woman

Or rather, treat women as equals and don’t be an a$$hole.

Does that go for women also?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:be safe - don't do or say anything at work. don't be alone with a woman

Or rather, treat women as equals and don’t be an a$$hole.

Does that go for women also?

Why do you keep turning this around? Are you that insecure?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:be safe - don't do or say anything at work. don't be alone with a woman

Or rather, treat women as equals and don’t be an a$$hole.

that's not enough for guys. men simply cannot take that chance. at the moment, work environment is turning into "you are guilty until proven innocent".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
so who cares if a woman is more willing to talk to an attractive man? does she not get to decide who she talks to?

Standards of what constitutes harassment shouldn't hinge on your level of attractiveness with more restrictive standards of behavior imposed on people simply because they're unattractive. That doesn't mean women should have to date ugly guys, but it seems a little arbitrary to say that a man has behaved badly initiating a social encounter because he's ugly when you wouldn't characterize the exact same behavior the same way if the guy happened to be attractive.

I hear the pain behind your post, and suggest that women aren’t avoiding you because of your physical appearance. They are avoiding you because of your social ineptitude and the fact that you are likely a boor.

I am not goodlooking. I am male, middle aged, and overweight. I will talk to people independent of their attractiveness. But, only if they want to talk to me. If I know them, I will say hi. If I don't, I might banter if they are otherwise not occupied. If they ignore me (or do not respond), I have two options: I can walk away, or I can keep pestering them. One thing that makes it easier for me is I just assume no woman other than my wife wants to sleep with me. If I am wrong, so be it. But, unless she hits me over the head with something telling me yes, I avoid it.

It as worked for me since puberty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:be safe - don't do or say anything at work. don't be alone with a woman

Or rather, treat women as equals and don’t be an a$$hole.

that's not enough for guys. men simply cannot take that chance. at the moment, work environment is turning into "you are guilty until proven innocent".

Then don’t. You may or may not notice women have been bribing along a third person VALIDLY FOR THEIR SAFETY for years. Welcome to reality. But don’t blame the women - blame your bro friends who don’t know how to be polite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
so who cares if a woman is more willing to talk to an attractive man? does she not get to decide who she talks to?

Standards of what constitutes harassment shouldn't hinge on your level of attractiveness with more restrictive standards of behavior imposed on people simply because they're unattractive. That doesn't mean women should have to date ugly guys, but it seems a little arbitrary to say that a man has behaved badly initiating a social encounter because he's ugly when you wouldn't characterize the exact same behavior the same way if the guy happened to be attractive.

I hear the pain behind your post, and suggest that women aren’t avoiding you because of your physical appearance. They are avoiding you because of your social ineptitude and the fact that you are likely a boor.

I am not goodlooking. I am male, middle aged, and overweight. I will talk to people independent of their attractiveness. But, only if they want to talk to me. If I know them, I will say hi. If I don't, I might banter if they are otherwise not occupied. If they ignore me (or do not respond), I have two options: I can walk away, or I can keep pestering them. One thing that makes it easier for me is I just assume no woman other than my wife wants to sleep with me. If I am wrong, so be it. But, unless she hits me over the head with something telling me yes, I avoid it.

It as worked for me since puberty.

So you’re still thinking about the fact that other women other than your wife MIGHT asleep with you?

How about only worrying about sleeping with your wife and treating other women like full fledged human beings?