Spanking

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do spankers make of all the average to well behaved children whose parents haven't/wouldn't spank? Given that it's obviously possible to raise children with fine behavior without resorting to spanking, what is the appeal of dpanking? Do you believe it works "faster"? Or do you not believe that there are lots of well behaved children whose parents would never spank?

? Do you think *all* kids are the same, and every discipline method works the exact same way on every kid? I have two kids, and they are very different, and how I parent and discipline them are very different. Your logic is weird.

So it's a weird coincidence that I (and the vast majority of my friends and family) who knew from before pregnancy that spanking was not on the table all happened to have children whose temperaments didn't demand spanking?

np. I have a feeling you spend a lot more time either "choosing your battles," as the euphemism goes, and/or managing an endless matrix of arbitrary incentives and penalties. And you or your friends probably still complain that the kids "just don't listen."

+1 Different parents seem to have different definitions of "well behaved" child.

I saw a mom do nothing as her child took something from another child who was playing with it. The child asked for it back, and the mom just looked at that kid and shrugged her shoulders. She probably thinks her child is well behaved because he at least didn't hit that child or throw a tantrum.

And you read the posts about how some parents will go over the Principal to get their precious snowflakes out of trouble, and I bet these parents still think their children are well behaved because... you know, they get good grades and everything.

"civil discussion" poster here - this isn't a problem with a lack of spanking though, it's parents without any boundaries. My parents spanked when we were growing up but also didn't intervene in things like this. I do choose my battles, which means that I don't force my child to wear the pink shirt if she preferred the black one or whatever - if my kids were not hurting, upsetting, or annoying someone else I tried to be pretty lenient - choosing to enforce only the bigger issues so i wasn't always the party of "no." However, I fully admit that lacking a "fear factor" means you basically cannot force your kids to do things they don't want to do without a battle. I guess it wasn't worth it or a priority to me to "force" my kids to do something. That meant getting compliance was a little bit different for me than for a spanker but by no means did I just sit there and let my kid hurt others. I think you're confusing no discipline with no spanking and again as i started this comment with, many spankers are also very sporadic with discipline overall...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do spankers make of all the average to well behaved children whose parents haven't/wouldn't spank? Given that it's obviously possible to raise children with fine behavior without resorting to spanking, what is the appeal of dpanking? Do you believe it works "faster"? Or do you not believe that there are lots of well behaved children whose parents would never spank?

? Do you think *all* kids are the same, and every discipline method works the exact same way on every kid? I have two kids, and they are very different, and how I parent and discipline them are very different. Your logic is weird.

So it's a weird coincidence that I (and the vast majority of my friends and family) who knew from before pregnancy that spanking was not on the table all happened to have children whose temperaments didn't demand spanking?

np. I have a feeling you spend a lot more time either "choosing your battles," as the euphemism goes, and/or managing an endless matrix of arbitrary incentives and penalties. And you or your friends probably still complain that the kids "just don't listen."

+1 Different parents seem to have different definitions of "well behaved" child.

I saw a mom do nothing as her child took something from another child who was playing with it. The child asked for it back, and the mom just looked at that kid and shrugged her shoulders. She probably thinks her child is well behaved because he at least didn't hit that child or throw a tantrum.

And you read the posts about how some parents will go over the Principal to get their precious snowflakes out of trouble, and I bet these parents still think their children are well behaved because... you know, they get good grades and everything.

"civil discussion" poster here - this isn't a problem with a lack of spanking though, it's parents without any boundaries. My parents spanked when we were growing up but also didn't intervene in things like this. I do choose my battles, which means that I don't force my child to wear the pink shirt if she preferred the black one or whatever - if my kids were not hurting, upsetting, or annoying someone else I tried to be pretty lenient - choosing to enforce only the bigger issues so i wasn't always the party of "no." However, I fully admit that lacking a "fear factor" means you basically cannot force your kids to do things they don't want to do without a battle. I guess it wasn't worth it or a priority to me to "force" my kids to do something. That meant getting compliance was a little bit different for me than for a spanker but by no means did I just sit there and let my kid hurt others. I think you're confusing no discipline with no spanking and again as i started this comment with, many spankers are also very sporadic with discipline overall...

No, the point is that what some parents deem as well behaved others may not. I see kids speak very rudely and disrespectfully to their parents, and they don't think it's a big deal, that they are just "expressing themselves". I do. That's just an example. to be sure, some spankers may not be consistent with their discipline either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do spankers make of all the average to well behaved children whose parents haven't/wouldn't spank? Given that it's obviously possible to raise children with fine behavior without resorting to spanking, what is the appeal of dpanking? Do you believe it works "faster"? Or do you not believe that there are lots of well behaved children whose parents would never spank?

? Do you think *all* kids are the same, and every discipline method works the exact same way on every kid? I have two kids, and they are very different, and how I parent and discipline them are very different. Your logic is weird.

So it's a weird coincidence that I (and the vast majority of my friends and family) who knew from before pregnancy that spanking was not on the table all happened to have children whose temperaments didn't demand spanking?

np. I have a feeling you spend a lot more time either "choosing your battles," as the euphemism goes, and/or managing an endless matrix of arbitrary incentives and penalties. And you or your friends probably still complain that the kids "just don't listen."

+1 Different parents seem to have different definitions of "well behaved" child.

I saw a mom do nothing as her child took something from another child who was playing with it. The child asked for it back, and the mom just looked at that kid and shrugged her shoulders. She probably thinks her child is well behaved because he at least didn't hit that child or throw a tantrum.

And you read the posts about how some parents will go over the Principal to get their precious snowflakes out of trouble, and I bet these parents still think their children are well behaved because... you know, they get good grades and everything.

"civil discussion" poster here - this isn't a problem with a lack of spanking though, it's parents without any boundaries. My parents spanked when we were growing up but also didn't intervene in things like this. I do choose my battles, which means that I don't force my child to wear the pink shirt if she preferred the black one or whatever - if my kids were not hurting, upsetting, or annoying someone else I tried to be pretty lenient - choosing to enforce only the bigger issues so i wasn't always the party of "no." However, I fully admit that lacking a "fear factor" means you basically cannot force your kids to do things they don't want to do without a battle. I guess it wasn't worth it or a priority to me to "force" my kids to do something. That meant getting compliance was a little bit different for me than for a spanker but by no means did I just sit there and let my kid hurt others. I think you're confusing no discipline with no spanking and again as i started this comment with, many spankers are also very sporadic with discipline overall...

Oops - me again and that went off before finished. I only meant to clarify, that I DO take action when my child hurts another child or upsets another child and taking a toy from someone will get an enforcement from me every time. Since this is usually an issue with younger children, who don't know better, I think it's absolutely appropriate to take the toy back off the "taking" child and say "Sarah was playing with giraffe. Your turn if she gets finished" or some variation. If an older child takes the toy and knows better, then I would return the toy and take my child aside and require a break from play. It's not really even intended as punishment, but to get my kid away from the kid who he / she is harassing for the benefit of that child's peace. If my kid persists in the bad behavior, we leave. So I actually do enforce things like this and it has nothing to do with spanking or not. And btw, it's not like that's a spanking offense anyway, right? But i get you were making a point. And actually agree with you - lots of parents, both those who spank and those who don't, just sit there while their kids are unkind to others - really uncool!

[Anonymous]

Spanker here. Agree with much of what was just said from all parties.

[Anonymous]

Serious question - how do you teach your kid not to hit others if you demonstrate that it's OK for you to hit them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Serious question - how do you teach your kid not to hit others if you demonstrate that it's OK for you to hit them?

A spanking is done as part of discipline in the context of a parent-child relationship. Believe it or not, kids are smart enough to understand that they are not allowed to do all the same things that their parents do. Presumably your child knows better than to take away his friend's toy or compel his friend to sit in timeout because you do that to him. How do you teach him not to do that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Serious question - how do you teach your kid not to hit others if you demonstrate that it's OK for you to hit them?

Serious question - how do you teach your kids not to steal from others if you demonstrate that it's OK for you to steal from them when taking away say, their electronics?

How do you teach your kids not to force others to do things against their will if you demonstrate that it's OK for you to force them to do things, like going to bed or eating vegetables?

How do you teach your kids not to falsely imprison others if you demonstrate that it's OK for you to falsely imprison them? (Time-out)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Serious question - how do you teach your kid not to hit others if you demonstrate that it's OK for you to hit them?

Easy. I am my child's parent, I can "do" a multitude of things to my kids that they are not allowed to do to others. For example, it is OK for me to discipline my children. In fact, it is my duty as a parent to discipline them. It is NOT ok for them to go around disciplining other kids, or me, or other adults, because they are not in a position of authority over anyone else. Crazy enough, they are able to understand that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Serious question - how do you teach your kid not to hit others if you demonstrate that it's OK for you to hit them?

Easy. I am my child's parent, I can "do" a multitude of things to my kids that they are not allowed to do to others. For example, it is OK for me to discipline my children. In fact, it is my duty as a parent to discipline them. It is NOT ok for them to go around disciplining other kids, or me, or other adults, because they are not in a position of authority over anyone else. Crazy enough, they are able to understand that.

Exactly. Kids are not in a position to discipline.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Serious question - how do you teach your kid not to hit others if you demonstrate that it's OK for you to hit them?

There are kids who hit other kids even though the kid has never been spanked.

There are kids who have been spanked who don't hit other kids because they've been told not to. Plus, generally, kids learn that if you hit another kid, that kid will most likely hit you back.

Kids learn that in certain situations, it's ok to do something, but in other situations, it's not. For example, it's ok to hit someone if you are defending yourself, or if you at war. It's ok to yell and scream at an amusement park ride, but not in church. A lot of behaviors are situational.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I once cut off the top of my brother's finger. I was seven. When they returned from the ER, my dad whipped (not spanked) me with a leather belt. I totally deserved the punishment, and I certainly didn't feel any resentment toward my dad for doing it. This was in the 70's, so more parents spanked, I believe, but I never felt abused. It's not like it happened every day. More like once every six months, and rarely with anything besides a small switch.

No. No, you did not.

If it was an accident, you did not deserve the punishment.

If it was not an accident and you intended to cut off the top of your brother's finger, you needed psychological help and not a whipping.

+1

This is absolutely horrifying. How do you not see that the "whipp[ing]" was violent assault on a defenseless child?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
np. I have a feeling you spend a lot more time either "choosing your battles," as the euphemism goes, and/or managing an endless matrix of arbitrary incentives and penalties. And you or your friends probably still complain that the kids "just don't listen."

+1 Different parents seem to have different definitions of "well behaved" child.

I saw a mom do nothing as her child took something from another child who was playing with it. The child asked for it back, and the mom just looked at that kid and shrugged her shoulders. She probably thinks her child is well behaved because he at least didn't hit that child or throw a tantrum.

And you read the posts about how some parents will go over the Principal to get their precious snowflakes out of trouble, and I bet these parents still think their children are well behaved because... you know, they get good grades and everything.

"civil discussion" poster here - this isn't a problem with a lack of spanking though, it's parents without any boundaries. My parents spanked when we were growing up but also didn't intervene in things like this. I do choose my battles, which means that I don't force my child to wear the pink shirt if she preferred the black one or whatever - if my kids were not hurting, upsetting, or annoying someone else I tried to be pretty lenient - choosing to enforce only the bigger issues so i wasn't always the party of "no." However, I fully admit that lacking a "fear factor" means you basically cannot force your kids to do things they don't want to do without a battle. I guess it wasn't worth it or a priority to me to "force" my kids to do something. That meant getting compliance was a little bit different for me than for a spanker but by no means did I just sit there and let my kid hurt others. I think you're confusing no discipline with no spanking and again as i started this comment with, many spankers are also very sporadic with discipline overall...

Oops - me again and that went off before finished. I only meant to clarify, that I DO take action when my child hurts another child or upsets another child and taking a toy from someone will get an enforcement from me every time. Since this is usually an issue with younger children, who don't know better, I think it's absolutely appropriate to take the toy back off the "taking" child and say "Sarah was playing with giraffe. Your turn if she gets finished" or some variation. If an older child takes the toy and knows better, then I would return the toy and take my child aside and require a break from play. It's not really even intended as punishment, but to get my kid away from the kid who he / she is harassing for the benefit of that child's peace. If my kid persists in the bad behavior, we leave. So I actually do enforce things like this and it has nothing to do with spanking or not. And btw, it's not like that's a spanking offense anyway, right? But i get you were making a point. And actually agree with you - lots of parents, both those who spank and those who don't, just sit there while their kids are unkind to others - really uncool!

NP.

I'm a non-spanker. I recently had a conversation with a spanner, who was talking about how ill-behaved her suster's children were, and assumed it was because they didn't get spanked. One example was her nephew ramming a comb through a screen door, breaking it. "I would've given him a spanking and he would have learned his lesson. She just sat there and thought it was funny."

I told her essentially that this seemed like a case of no boundaries and lazy parenting, not proof that spanking would have been the only solution to the problem. And she was astonished. "What would you have done, just like taken him away?" Sure, for starters. But there would have been a consequence associated with the behavior, too. I certainly wouldn't have just laughed while my kid destroyed someone's property.

[Anonymous]

I couldn't ever spank my kids. I couldn't ever imagine physically hurting them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What do spankers make of all the average to well behaved children whose parents haven't/wouldn't spank? Given that it's obviously possible to raise children with fine behavior without resorting to spanking, what is the appeal of dpanking? Do you believe it works "faster"? Or do you not believe that there are lots of well behaved children whose parents would never spank?

I'm not looking for simply average-behaved kids, especially not by DCUM standards. Additionally, I want to do as little disciplining as possible, and spend the most time as possible in a non-disciplinary mode. I don't want to be enforcing timeouts, or spending my parenting energy managing various lost and restored privileges for each kid. No, I prefer simple, concrete, swift and effective discipline that is over and done with just as quickly. That's the advantage.

So you are teaching your kid that it's okay for adults to hit them.

[Anonymous]

I used to work in a school where children were frequently spanked at home. They had very little respect for teachers since they knew we wouldn't hit them. Sometimes the only way to get a child to behave was to threaten to tell their parents and hope the parent would spank them. The vice principal would describe spankings a child would get to make them cry. It was a disgusting situation. It did not teach children to be respectful.