I want to get away from friend groups/communities with this specific type of woman: where to go?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Where do you live? You have to hang out with people a level below your own income level. We haven't moved out of our starter home for this reason. I want to HAVE money, not be around other people with money. Most of them are exactly like you describe.

This this this.

Not just income level - but "status level" (educational background, job titles etc.). And then keep your status/income level to yourself.

And then just don't engage. Someone wants to take over the PTA or the pool board with some sort of Game of Thrones style machinations? Who cares.

It's not that those types of women aren't out there - there are plenty of women who aren't mutual frenemies or minions.

What if you are just middle class, so the only people below your income/status level are working or lower class?

Alternatively, what if your social class and economic class don't match? My spouse and I are highly educated from "good" schools that have a lot of status, but we have middle class status jobs and a middle class income.

I'm genuinely asking. We wind up living among UMC people but being the lowest status people in that community, which is an uncomfortable situation and I think makes me a target for these sorts of women who initially wish to turn me into an acolyte and then, when they realize I don't like that, they use my low status as a punching bag to elevate themselves.

I don't want to live in a poorer community because I value education and schools in poor and working class areas tend to either be not great, or they are great but are focused mostly on helping a poor kids (which makes sense) and might not be a great place for my MC kids.

So where do a I go to get away from this dynamic, or, if there's nowhere for me to go, how do I protect myself from these women using me as a weird foil for their status games? What I want is to just float in the middle somewhere without attracting attention.

Are you the OP?

I posted before that I used to be a tomboy and never hung out with these types. I guess we are the opposite because we have the highest income. Many of those queen bee types in our area are UMC but not super rich.

I have three very social children who I guess are popular so those moms are nice to me. DH is also well regarded so those wives play nice to me. I don’t want to hang out with any of those women personally if I don’t have to.

I don't understand the point of this comment. You seem like a troll.

I’m saying the moms are nice to me because I have three popular kids and an extremely successful husband.

Why in the world would I be a troll?

OP mentioned a type of woman who is very easy NOT to hang out with. I was a smart nerdy type, did not hang out with those type of women my entire life and still don’t as a middle aged woman. I see them around and they are nice to me but we aren’t close.

🤮

[Anonymous]

In this thread, it's hard to tell the difference between (1) people who genuinely don't know what OP is talking about and have not encountered people like this, (2) people who know exactly what OP is talking about, think they might be being called out, and are honestly just trying to defend their behavior, and (3) people who know what OP is talking about, know they are like that, and are true to form being manipulative and gaslighting because that's what they do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In this thread, it's hard to tell the difference between (1) people who genuinely don't know what OP is talking about and have not encountered people like this, (2) people who know exactly what OP is talking about, think they might be being called out, and are honestly just trying to defend their behavior, and (3) people who know what OP is talking about, know they are like that, and are true to form being manipulative and gaslighting because that's what they do.

You missed the people who realize OP is a grown-up, who should be capable of making friends with people she chooses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In this thread, it's hard to tell the difference between (1) people who genuinely don't know what OP is talking about and have not encountered people like this, (2) people who know exactly what OP is talking about, think they might be being called out, and are honestly just trying to defend their behavior, and (3) people who know what OP is talking about, know they are like that, and are true to form being manipulative and gaslighting because that's what they do.

You missed the people who realize OP is a grown-up, who should be capable of making friends with people she chooses.

The sort of people OP is talking about aren't friends. They are these aggressive women who just try to dominate social situations. OP's post was about avoiding them because they are annoying.

Making friends is a separate issue.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:People don't think about you nearly as much as you seem to think they do, OP. What an odd, unrelatable post. What on EARTH are you prattling on about?

Lol, found one.

Exactly. They're gonna be ALL up in this thread with their particular brand of insult gaslighting

Laughing because this was a really prescient post early in the thread.

All the Type As are freaking out in this thread. I wonder if they didn't realize we knew what was up?

They think they are always one upping us and never realize we are onto them.

No one cares about one upping. It is literally just engaging in conversation and providing insight. Everyone isn't going to say to you all of the time "you are so right!" or "I am so sorry to hear that!" or "wow, you do everything right all of the time!" and everyone isn't just going to walk around like toddlers and exclaim "I like romance movies", "I like pizza", just making declarations, without a back a forth.

I am beginning to think you may be on the spectrum. I don't say that as a burn -- if you are, that's fine, and would explain why you didn't understand what multiple people here are saying.

No one has suggested they want anyone to constantly validate them and say they are right. In fact, that sounds very annoying.

But yes, one upping is a thing. And guess what, most people do it occasionally, without meaning to. Sometimes people don't listen well, are caught up in their own business and aren't connecting, or misread a conversation.

But some people one up in every single conversation, in response to everything you might say. Some people treat conversation as an opportunity to demonstrate their superiority on every single subject. I've known people like this. It's very obnoxious and is not "back and forth." It's a rhetorical tool to turn attention and praise back on themselves at every turn. If this is you, people will absolutely grow weary of it and start avoiding you, not because you don't validate them constantly, but because they are tired of you never listening to them, never trying to empathize or even understand, never being able to sustain focus on anyone but yourself for more than ten seconds.

DP

Getting overly annoyed by perceived one-upping during a back and forth conversation is YOUR thing. Move on and be normal when people share things or stories with you. BFD.

You sound like a Queen Bee. You can’t handle it when anyone tells you some of their life story.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Say what?

Yeah.

Sounds like OP has got it all figured out…. lol.

OP sounds like she has too much time on her hands. Get a more demanding day job Op. you need a bigger perspective and more orbits in your life.

Does the OP work full time?

You all sound really nice and definitely not like self important Type As who harass people and think they're better than everyone else./s

Nice non response and lame deflection. Is that like your 20th here to a simple context question?! lol.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I don’t actually know anyone like that. But we’re kind of middle class.

OP here. We are not "kind of" middle class. We are middle class. We own a tiny home we bought for under 500k when rates were really low and cannot afford to fix it up or to move. We have extremely normal jobs with no power or prestige. Public schools, modest backgrounds. I work in a field with a lot of jobs in the DC area due to the federal government and all the universities, which is how we wound up here, but it's not a glamorous field at all.

My perception is that a lot of the people I encounter like this only make slightly more than we do, but either have a spouse making a lot or have money from family. We don't live in NW DC or one of the pricy suburbs. I assume this issue is even worse in those communities, but I'll never find out because we could never afford to live there, nor will we ever send our kids to any of these elite privates (or any private school) or get them involved in any super expensive EC. But even in our very middle class existence, I encounter people like this a lot.

It must be you. I posted upthread and live in CCDC and haven't encountered this dynamic in any friendships or relationships.

Translation: “This has never happened to me, so isn’t real and OP you’re the one to blame. I’m rich and live in one of the big bad neighborhoods so that makes me the authority on this subject, especially now that I see that you’re not rich. Listen to me and fall in line!”

Unhealthy obsession PP.

Try to relax and have a happy holidays soon.

Let all the people you hate so much jsut self implode in their own while you go live your best life. Drop the constant complaining though, it’s not a good look.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Where do you live? You have to hang out with people a level below your own income level. We haven't moved out of our starter home for this reason. I want to HAVE money, not be around other people with money. Most of them are exactly like you describe.

This this this.

Not just income level - but "status level" (educational background, job titles etc.). And then keep your status/income level to yourself.

And then just don't engage. Someone wants to take over the PTA or the pool board with some sort of Game of Thrones style machinations? Who cares.

It's not that those types of women aren't out there - there are plenty of women who aren't mutual frenemies or minions.

What if you are just middle class, so the only people below your income/status level are working or lower class?

Alternatively, what if your social class and economic class don't match? My spouse and I are highly educated from "good" schools that have a lot of status, but we have middle class status jobs and a middle class income.

I'm genuinely asking. We wind up living among UMC people but being the lowest status people in that community, which is an uncomfortable situation and I think makes me a target for these sorts of women who initially wish to turn me into an acolyte and then, when they realize I don't like that, they use my low status as a punching bag to elevate themselves.

I don't want to live in a poorer community because I value education and schools in poor and working class areas tend to either be not great, or they are great but are focused mostly on helping a poor kids (which makes sense) and might not be a great place for my MC kids.

So where do a I go to get away from this dynamic, or, if there's nowhere for me to go, how do I protect myself from these women using me as a weird foil for their status games? What I want is to just float in the middle somewhere without attracting attention.

Are you the OP?

I posted before that I used to be a tomboy and never hung out with these types. I guess we are the opposite because we have the highest income. Many of those queen bee types in our area are UMC but not super rich.

I have three very social children who I guess are popular so those moms are nice to me. DH is also well regarded so those wives play nice to me. I don’t want to hang out with any of those women personally if I don’t have to.

I don't understand the point of this comment. You seem like a troll.

I’m saying the moms are nice to me because I have three popular kids and an extremely successful husband.

Why in the world would I be a troll?

OP mentioned a type of woman who is very easy NOT to hang out with. I was a smart nerdy type, did not hang out with those type of women my entire life and still don’t as a middle aged woman. I see them around and they are nice to me but we aren’t close.

Ditto here. We don’t have much in common but kids are friends, same neighborhood & school, likely similar SES, different types of college & career paths, different homestates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can you imagine taking notes on people and cross-referencing them into a character type more elaborate than a Tarantino script description?

It’s not like she’s a trained CIA profiler, she’s just a SAHM with nothing to do but instantly label people she meets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In this thread, it's hard to tell the difference between (1) people who genuinely don't know what OP is talking about and have not encountered people like this, (2) people who know exactly what OP is talking about, think they might be being called out, and are honestly just trying to defend their behavior, and (3) people who know what OP is talking about, know they are like that, and are true to form being manipulative and gaslighting because that's what they do.

OP is talking about stuck up people, and has a couple broad examples that don’t really support much.

The rest of what you wrote is you trying to make up stuff to support it. Maybe that level of thinking works for you at home or whatever you do, but it’s looks pretty lame.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In this thread, it's hard to tell the difference between (1) people who genuinely don't know what OP is talking about and have not encountered people like this, (2) people who know exactly what OP is talking about, think they might be being called out, and are honestly just trying to defend their behavior, and (3) people who know what OP is talking about, know they are like that, and are true to form being manipulative and gaslighting because that's what they do.

You missed the people who realize OP is a grown-up, who should be capable of making friends with people she chooses.

The sort of people OP is talking about aren't friends. They are these aggressive women who just try to dominate social situations. OP's post was about avoiding them because they are annoying.

Making friends is a separate issue.

None of that is difficult to do and none of this is worthy of a post.

Even my 12 yo could tell you that. Just avoid the drama llamas or shallow people.

Obviously if you one day turn around and 90% of everyone you ever met you’ve chosen to label as shallow, maybe you have the perception problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In this thread, it's hard to tell the difference between (1) people who genuinely don't know what OP is talking about and have not encountered people like this, (2) people who know exactly what OP is talking about, think they might be being called out, and are honestly just trying to defend their behavior, and (3) people who know what OP is talking about, know they are like that, and are true to form being manipulative and gaslighting because that's what they do.

You missed the people who realize OP is a grown-up, who should be capable of making friends with people she chooses.

The sort of people OP is talking about aren't friends. They are these aggressive women who just try to dominate social situations. OP's post was about avoiding them because they are annoying.

Making friends is a separate issue.

None of that is difficult to do and none of this is worthy of a post.

Even my 12 yo could tell you that. Just avoid the drama llamas or shallow people.

Obviously if you one day turn around and 90% of everyone you ever met you’ve chosen to label as shallow, maybe you have the perception problem.

It obviously was "worthy of a post" as it's generated over 15 pages of comments, including many people relating that they struggle with the same personality type. I have appreciated the discussion specifically on what to say or do to neutralize women who behave this way, or how to get them to leave you along and move onto the next person. I am one of the people who has a woman like this in my life now and it's been really helpful in thinking of ways I might change how I interact with her so that she doesn't bother me so much. I don't think anyone has claimed "90%" of people are like this -- it's obvious from the start that it's a select few people behaving this way but they have an outsize impact on others because of their nature.

If you don't think it's a problem, there is no reason for YOU to post in the thread. Go hang out with your 12 year old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can you imagine taking notes on people and cross-referencing them into a character type more elaborate than a Tarantino script description?

It’s not like she’s a trained CIA profiler, she’s just a SAHM with nothing to do but instantly label people she meets.

OP here and I have a job and think it's weird people are insulting me by calling me a SAHM (what's wrong with being a SAHM?). I specifically mentioned that I have run into a person like this at work.

[Anonymous]

Sock puppeting record of the week! Not difficult but don’t deny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've lived in DC for over a decade now and I keep winding up in situations where I am in close proximity to a very specific type of woman: type A, overachiever, from a doting family (think super involved grandparents, parents who always told her she was smarter and better than other kids), married to a high earning man (usually a somewhat bro-y guy who is easy going but kind of dense and boring).

Very smart to the point of being manipulative in social settings. Can gossip/talk $hit about other women in a way that never comes off as gossipy but accomplishes the same goal.

Forceful (which I might say is a euphemism for pushy, but she and others would describe her as forceful or "a force of nature").

Maneuvers into positions of authority in every setting -- work, volunteer orgs, PTA, neighborhood, her regular barre studio, a wedding party, the dog park.

Has two kinds of friends: (1) frenemies, who are women who are just like her against whom she competes for control of things, but they are surface friends and they secretly do not like each other, and (2) minions, women who look up to her and sing her praises at every turn and whom she is often "helping" in ways that some people (me) would find condescending and over-involved.

Not here to discuss whether this type of person is good or bad. It's a type. There are many in DC, and I would like to minimize my exposure to them.

I have found that once I am in a community with this sort of person, it is hard to get her to ignore me or leave me alone, and she either tries to adopt me as a minion (most common, I really hate this, I don't want to be someone's acolyte and I really, really hate being told how to handle my life so it just doesn't work) or she will target me as a threat and start talking negatively about me behind my back.

Directness doesn't work because they will either just steamroll over your direct request ("please stop suggesting jobs for me, I am not job hunting" and then they keep doing it because they are convinced you don't know what is best for you) or will attempt to manipulate and maneuver around it.

So I give up. I just want one place where I can be social and have friends in DC where there isn't a woman like this. If this is you, where do you NOT go. Or have any of you found a secret place where these women aren't? I just want to be free. I am tired. Would moving away from DC help? If so, where?

This is a work situation?!

And you know all about this women as listed above?

She sounds toxic and unprofessional.

Is this a non profit or someplace where no one can report gossip, slander, poor management?