Just don't really care

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
When does a marriage become "sexless"? If there was sex at least one time in the marriage can it never be sexless? If there is the prospect for sex at least one more time before one of them dies? Less than once a year?

you're guilty of withholding sex from your DH aren't you? A normal person with a normal sex life wouldn't ask such questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you say you don't know why your wife has lost interest in sex with you. Isn't that kind of a HUGE gap of understanding? How do you expect to find solutions if you don't get to the root of the reason for the problem?

Have you posted before? It's like a broken record.

1. A man posts that his wife has lost interest.
2. He has NO clue why and no curiosity about it.
3. She ruins it for him when she does have sex because she's not into it.
4. She cries and says she feels like a bad wife when he brings it up.

Where do you get that he has no curiosity? It's not like he's not talking to her about the problem. He brings it up. She cries. She knows it's a problem. Nothing in there suggests that she has explained the reason for her disinterest and he has ignored her. If I had to guess, I'd say she either doesn't know herself or is too embarrassed to tell him.

I don't know OP's situation, but I've been through similar. For years, I kept talking to my wife, asking what I could do. I tried to shoulder more of the load. We waited until the kids were older and off to school. I tried initiating more aggressively. When we have sex, there's almost always a massage first. I always engage in foreplay - I enjoy it, but it's one-sided. She receives, and I give. I got a vasectomy so she could go off birth control. Nonsexual touch. Date nights. Make sure to take the kids places to give her plenty of alone time. Nothing moved the needle. Now she says it's her own body-image issues standing in the way. Not much I can do for that. I wouldn't be surprised if OP's situation is similar to mine. It's not always a boorish, disinterested DH trying to get his way without being willing to listen to or change things around to accommodate his wife's needs.

My DH would almost have written this. Very nice man and helpful with kids. He’s high Libido and I try my best to catch up. I have however with time and experience realize a lot of men are over confident in thinking they are great at foreplay yet they are absolutely off the mark! Things were going downhill in my marriage and I had to let my husband know the foreplay was well below standard to interest my low libido. Men watch your foreplay skills and stop thinking you are great. Learn your woman.

[Anonymous]

Men watch your foreplay skills and stop thinking you are great. Learn your woman.

Use your God damned words. Telepathy doesn't work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You can't unilaterally decided to open up a marriage without the other partners input or ground rules and then claim it's not cheating. It's analogous to telling someone you're going to steal their French fry off their plate without letting them say yes or no

You must have missed the fact she unilaterally decided to not have a normal sex life. What’s fair for her, is fair for him too. She changed the sexual rules first to allow one partner to make selfish unloving decisions without the other partners input.

I don't get your point. What is the benefit of declaring "I am going to cheat from now on" (which is identical to declaring an open marriage)? To get the spouse to file because you don't have the guts yourself, so you can tell yourself (and others) that you wanted to preserve the marriage but the spouse didn't?

What is the point in staying married to somebody you don't want sex with? Is that just a selfish attempt to force your normal libido spouse into filing for divorce because you don't have the guts yourself?

Basically any and everything you might say about a spouse declaring Open Marriage, I can reverse your words and say the exact same thing about a spouse declaring Sexless marriage. Because these are 100% equivalent, despicable, unloving acts. If anything, the sexless marriage declaration is far WORSE because that comes unprompted. At least the Open Marriage is a justified response to the spouse who struck first with the sexless marriage declaration.

If absence of sex doesn't bother me then why wouldn't I stay in the marriage if the rest is fine. No need for divorce.
I still don't understand what's a "declared open marriage". Any state will at fault divorce grant one for your actions without any wait time. Is that the point? I will give you that it's a response to the absence of sex, but it's not justified. Leave, file for divorce if you are unhappy, don't pretend you are preserving the marriage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Men watch your foreplay skills and stop thinking you are great. Learn your woman.

Use your God damned words. Telepathy doesn't work.

DP. That's a turn off for me. I don't need more clueless people in my life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are 100% right that she can file for divorce. She will have cause to do so because the second he has sex with someone other than her without her agreement, he's CHEATING ON HER.

What the hell is wrong with you people? I never said that it was wonderful for the OP's wife to not have sex as often as he wants. I will point out again that according to him, the marriage isn't sexless. It doesn't have as much sex as he wants and he doesn't enjoy the sex that occurs for whatever reason, but the reality is that that is not what a sexless marriage is. Once a month and boring isn't sexless. It's just unsatisfying. I agree that it would be better if these two married adults would communicate with each other and try to meet each other's needs better than they are currently doing, but that doesn't mean that it's justified for the OP to go have an affair (your "open marriage") because he's not happy with what he's getting at home.

By that definition, anyone who is unhappy with their sex life for any reason could justify adultery by saying that they had declared the marriage open. It does not work that way, and I don't understand why you are so invested in claiming that it does.

The problem seems to be you don't understand the full gravity of 1 partner unilaterally declaring a marriage sexless. That is EXACTLY the same thing as the other partner unilaterally deciding to seek sex elsewhere. There is absolutely zero difference, and it is no less justified for him to declare the marriage Open as for her to declare it Sexless. I agree, neither is being a good partner, and I have no idea why she wants to stay married to a man she doesn't want sex with. I don't understand why you are so invested in allowing only 1 spouse to make unilateral decisions about sex in the marriage. That is not a defensible position at all.

There is PLENTY of difference between not having as much sex as your partner wants to have and having sex with someone other than your partner. If this marriage was actually sexless, I might be inclined to agree with you, but that's not what's happening here. Your entire premise is based on this marriage being sexless, which it's not. This man and his wife have sex once a month. The sex is, according to this man, not enjoyable for him and doesn't occur as often as he'd like. He wants better sex with his wife that happens more regularly than once a month. Those are understandable wants, and if I was the OP, I would want those things as well. They do not, however, equal a sexless marriage, just a marriage in which the OP is sexually frustrated. No matter how sexually frustrated he is, declaring that he intends to have sex with people other than her whether she agrees or not IS adultery, no matter how understandable you or I may find his desire to do so. Her unwillingness to have the kind of sex that he wants at the frequency that he wants, while you and I may find that to be a crappy way to treat the OP, is not the same as having an affair. In an affair, he is affirmatively putting his penis into another woman's body. During that act, he could father a child because as we all know, no birth control method is 100% effective. He would then be legally responsible for that child as well as the children he already has. He could also contract a sexually transmitted disease through this action, which he could then pass to his wife during their monthly bad sex. She would then need medical treatment as a consequence of his affirmative decision to have sex with someone else. None of that is true of what the OP's wife is doing, though I'm sure you'll be happy to list some very real consequences that the poor OP suffers as a result of his wife's unwillingness to have sex with him in the manner and frequency he prefers.

When does a marriage become "sexless"? If there was sex at least one time in the marriage can it never be sexless? If there is the prospect for sex at least one more time before one of them dies? Less than once a year?

For statistical purposes, researchers define a sexless marriage as 10x or less per year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are 100% right that she can file for divorce. She will have cause to do so because the second he has sex with someone other than her without her agreement, he's CHEATING ON HER.

What the hell is wrong with you people? I never said that it was wonderful for the OP's wife to not have sex as often as he wants. I will point out again that according to him, the marriage isn't sexless. It doesn't have as much sex as he wants and he doesn't enjoy the sex that occurs for whatever reason, but the reality is that that is not what a sexless marriage is. Once a month and boring isn't sexless. It's just unsatisfying. I agree that it would be better if these two married adults would communicate with each other and try to meet each other's needs better than they are currently doing, but that doesn't mean that it's justified for the OP to go have an affair (your "open marriage") because he's not happy with what he's getting at home.

By that definition, anyone who is unhappy with their sex life for any reason could justify adultery by saying that they had declared the marriage open. It does not work that way, and I don't understand why you are so invested in claiming that it does.

The problem seems to be you don't understand the full gravity of 1 partner unilaterally declaring a marriage sexless. That is EXACTLY the same thing as the other partner unilaterally deciding to seek sex elsewhere. There is absolutely zero difference, and it is no less justified for him to declare the marriage Open as for her to declare it Sexless. I agree, neither is being a good partner, and I have no idea why she wants to stay married to a man she doesn't want sex with. I don't understand why you are so invested in allowing only 1 spouse to make unilateral decisions about sex in the marriage. That is not a defensible position at all.

There is PLENTY of difference between not having as much sex as your partner wants to have and having sex with someone other than your partner. If this marriage was actually sexless, I might be inclined to agree with you, but that's not what's happening here. Your entire premise is based on this marriage being sexless, which it's not. This man and his wife have sex once a month. The sex is, according to this man, not enjoyable for him and doesn't occur as often as he'd like. He wants better sex with his wife that happens more regularly than once a month. Those are understandable wants, and if I was the OP, I would want those things as well. They do not, however, equal a sexless marriage, just a marriage in which the OP is sexually frustrated. No matter how sexually frustrated he is, declaring that he intends to have sex with people other than her whether she agrees or not IS adultery, no matter how understandable you or I may find his desire to do so. Her unwillingness to have the kind of sex that he wants at the frequency that he wants, while you and I may find that to be a crappy way to treat the OP, is not the same as having an affair. In an affair, he is affirmatively putting his penis into another woman's body. During that act, he could father a child because as we all know, no birth control method is 100% effective. He would then be legally responsible for that child as well as the children he already has. He could also contract a sexually transmitted disease through this action, which he could then pass to his wife during their monthly bad sex. She would then need medical treatment as a consequence of his affirmative decision to have sex with someone else. None of that is true of what the OP's wife is doing, though I'm sure you'll be happy to list some very real consequences that the poor OP suffers as a result of his wife's unwillingness to have sex with him in the manner and frequency he prefers.

When does a marriage become "sexless"? If there was sex at least one time in the marriage can it never be sexless? If there is the prospect for sex at least one more time before one of them dies? Less than once a year?

For statistical purposes, researchers define a sexless marriage as 10x or less per year.

Pretty sure that's most of DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, you say you don't know why your wife has lost interest in sex with you. Isn't that kind of a HUGE gap of understanding? How do you expect to find solutions if you don't get to the root of the reason for the problem?

Have you posted before? It's like a broken record.

1. A man posts that his wife has lost interest.
2. He has NO clue why and no curiosity about it.
3. She ruins it for him when she does have sex because she's not into it.
4. She cries and says she feels like a bad wife when he brings it up.

Where do you get that he has no curiosity? It's not like he's not talking to her about the problem. He brings it up. She cries. She knows it's a problem. Nothing in there suggests that she has explained the reason for her disinterest and he has ignored her. If I had to guess, I'd say she either doesn't know herself or is too embarrassed to tell him.

I don't know OP's situation, but I've been through similar. For years, I kept talking to my wife, asking what I could do. I tried to shoulder more of the load. We waited until the kids were older and off to school. I tried initiating more aggressively. When we have sex, there's almost always a massage first. I always engage in foreplay - I enjoy it, but it's one-sided. She receives, and I give. I got a vasectomy so she could go off birth control. Nonsexual touch. Date nights. Make sure to take the kids places to give her plenty of alone time. Nothing moved the needle. Now she says it's her own body-image issues standing in the way. Not much I can do for that. I wouldn't be surprised if OP's situation is similar to mine. It's not always a boorish, disinterested DH trying to get his way without being willing to listen to or change things around to accommodate his wife's needs.

My DH would almost have written this. Very nice man and helpful with kids. He’s high Libido and I try my best to catch up. I have however with time and experience realize a lot of men are over confident in thinking they are great at foreplay yet they are absolutely off the mark! Things were going downhill in my marriage and I had to let my husband know the foreplay was well below standard to interest my low libido. Men watch your foreplay skills and stop thinking you are great. Learn your woman.

It’s not a man’s job to know how to please a woman, but rather a woman’s job to teach and tell her man how to please her. The opposite is true as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You can't unilaterally decided to open up a marriage without the other partners input or ground rules and then claim it's not cheating. It's analogous to telling someone you're going to steal their French fry off their plate without letting them say yes or no

You must have missed the fact she unilaterally decided to not have a normal sex life. What’s fair for her, is fair for him too. She changed the sexual rules first to allow one partner to make selfish unloving decisions without the other partners input.

I don't get your point. What is the benefit of declaring "I am going to cheat from now on" (which is identical to declaring an open marriage)? To get the spouse to file because you don't have the guts yourself, so you can tell yourself (and others) that you wanted to preserve the marriage but the spouse didn't?

What is the point in staying married to somebody you don't want sex with? Is that just a selfish attempt to force your normal libido spouse into filing for divorce because you don't have the guts yourself?

Basically any and everything you might say about a spouse declaring Open Marriage, I can reverse your words and say the exact same thing about a spouse declaring Sexless marriage. Because these are 100% equivalent, despicable, unloving acts. If anything, the sexless marriage declaration is far WORSE because that comes unprompted. At least the Open Marriage is a justified response to the spouse who struck first with the sexless marriage declaration.

If absence of sex doesn't bother me then why wouldn't I stay in the marriage if the rest is fine. No need for divorce.
I still don't understand what's a "declared open marriage". Any state will at fault divorce grant one for your actions without any wait time. Is that the point? I will give you that it's a response to the absence of sex, but it's not justified. Leave, file for divorce if you are unhappy, don't pretend you are preserving the marriage.

Likewise, if you don't care about sex why divorce a partner who's just informed you the marriage is Open when everything else is fine? No need for divorce.
A declared open marriage is the same as a declared sexless marriage: both are unilateral decisions about sex in the marriage any regard for how the other spouse thinks about it. Very few states now care about your sex life. You can easily get a divorce no matter who you are (or are not) having sex with. How can you say that declaring Sexless is justified yet declaring Open is not justified? These are 100% equivalent. Some people it seems like their marriage in all respects except for sex. So why divorce over something so unimportant as sex? If it's not important enough to have regularly, why divorce over something so insignificant (... when you spouse goes elsewhere for it). Just be happy some other woman is doing the job you don't want. Meanwhile you keep your otherwise happy marriage going. Win-Win.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Men watch your foreplay skills and stop thinking you are great. Learn your woman.

Use your God damned words. Telepathy doesn't work.

DP. That's a turn off for me. I don't need more clueless people in my life.

Why did you marry (or even date) a man with no foreplay who turns you off by wanting to hear what you enjoy?

[Anonymous]

Sex is expected to be a part of marriage. No partner should have to make the choice between a sexless marriage and divorce. I love my DW, my family, and virtually everything about the life we’ve built together, except for the lack of sex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Men watch your foreplay skills and stop thinking you are great. Learn your woman.

Use your God damned words. Telepathy doesn't work.

DP. That's a turn off for me. I don't need more clueless people in my life.

People who can't read your mind. Got it. I guess you suffer then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Was it the Love Languages book? I couldn't be bothered to read it either when my DH suggested it. All he wanted to do was drive home the point that "touch" is his "language" -- whatever the book would have said was my language wouldn't have mattered so I couldn't be bothered. He just wanted ammunition to use to force me to have sex.

No. It was "Come As You Are" by Emily Nagoski.
https://www.amazon.com/Come-You-Are-Surprising-Transform/dp/1476762090

I thought it was very insightful about women's sex drives -- talking about brakes, gas, and responsive desire. I don't know whether or not it would have ultimately helped our sex life, but the fact that my wife couldn't be bothered to make even this minimal level of non-sexual effort was really hurtful to me.

I'm a bit behind on this thread, but I am a DW and we definitely hit a low point in our sex life at one point when our kids were young but want to encourage you because we were able to get in a much better spot. It never got as bad as your situation but my DH would have conversations letting me know that it just wasn't working for him and I would get emotional and feel like a failure as a wife. I would really try to just 'fake it until we make it,' but I just couldn't sustain it. I finally saw how hard it was hitting my DH and I decided to do something and just telling myself to go for it more often just wasn't enough. So I read a lot of books and this one is one of the best ones out there. I had my DH read it, too. From a very vanilla sex background, I also stepped out a bit and found certain things that helped me get more interested (alcohol, erotic literature, fantasy/ role play have all been helpful for me) and we now are much more deliberate about when (yes, we unsexily schedule it which has really helped) and I know that I've got the day to get my mind in the mood. We just came off of a marathon of seven straight days - which I would have found unthinkable a few years ago.

But unless your wife really wants to do something about this, it's not going to change. It took a lot of work on my part and a lot of time. And it also took a lot of understanding from DH as he's bent over backwards to do anything that I thought might be helpful (books, role play, extra load at home so I could decompress in the evening, etc.).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Men watch your foreplay skills and stop thinking you are great. Learn your woman.

Use your God damned words. Telepathy doesn't work.

DP. That's a turn off for me. I don't need more clueless people in my life.

People who can't read your mind. Got it. I guess you suffer then.

Somehow, I never had to suffer because of it. Not everyone is clueless. Strange, yes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Men watch your foreplay skills and stop thinking you are great. Learn your woman.

Use your God damned words. Telepathy doesn't work.

DP. That's a turn off for me. I don't need more clueless people in my life.

Why did you marry (or even date) a man with no foreplay who turns you off by wanting to hear what you enjoy?

PP. I would not date one. Why do people marry if there is a sex problem is beyond me.