Can you bounce back from being bad-mouthed to spouse's friends?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm one of the pps you thanked for being kind. So sorry this thread has gone off the rails, but that happens on this board some times. Take it with a grain of salt.

Sounds like you've taken some really positive steps for yourself. Way to go! You can do this.

And, easy on the Advil. My neuro told me that if you take it for more than two days in a row, it can trigger withdrawal headache. Keep your Tylenol/Advil plan quite short.

Best of luck.

Op is deluding herself that her husband is remorseful and scared about this. Being supportive of her denial is not a kindness. Being supportive of her going to therapy to gain strength and understanding of the situation is helpful. Telling her to work on her marriage to psychopath is akin to blaming the victim here - not cool.

This is not Op's fault. Her husband and his friends have quite literally been snubbing her for years. There is a level of contempt and cruelty here that is NOT normal. Her husband will continue to treat her like crap and undermine her sense of self worth in order to keep her under control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm one of the pps you thanked for being kind. So sorry this thread has gone off the rails, but that happens on this board some times. Take it with a grain of salt.

Sounds like you've taken some really positive steps for yourself. Way to go! You can do this.

And, easy on the Advil. My neuro told me that if you take it for more than two days in a row, it can trigger withdrawal headache. Keep your Tylenol/Advil plan quite short.

Best of luck.

Op is deluding herself that her husband is remorseful and scared about this. Being supportive of her denial is not a kindness. Being supportive of her going to therapy to gain strength and understanding of the situation is helpful. Telling her to work on her marriage to psychopath is akin to blaming the victim here - not cool.

This is not Op's fault. Her husband and his friends have quite literally been snubbing her for years. There is a level of contempt and cruelty here that is NOT normal. Her husband will continue to treat her like crap and undermine her sense of self worth in order to keep her under control.

+1 well said

[Anonymous]

OP, I really admire you for sticking with it for your children, but I think that you need to understand this is not how marriage or relationships need to be, and that your happiness counts as well. You shouldn’t have to live in the dark corners of your partners life - you should be front and center. Consider what it teaches your children as they get older, about relationships, if you are only part time in their father’s life, despite wearing the burden of regular family life always.

This will sound cruel, but I mean it for you to understand how important you are. Your husband is only groveling because he got caught and if you leave, he will have to answer to why. He doesn’t care that you’re about the leave - he only cares that it changes his narrative about how you are a ball and chain and trapped him and he’s struck.

Simply put: you deserve happiness. Actual, real, happiness. The kind of happiness where you wake up every morning without this stuff.

OP, you deserve to be happy. You only have one life.

Do what you need to do, but know that you are worth your own happiness. Your children are worth your happiness.

[Anonymous]

Time for your little boy husband to be a man and own up to his youthful insecurities and confess to all his friends that none of what he said about you was true and that he has been living a lie with both you and them. That you are his one true love and that their negativity towards you, all caused by his lies, haunts him and eats at him. That it was time to set things straight and he can live this lie no more. That there will be no more coed "boys trips" where you are left out and that they can accept and appreciate you as a couple or move on from the friendship.

To me, that is the only acceptable solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Time for your little boy husband to be a man and own up to his youthful insecurities and confess to all his friends that none of what he said about you was true and that he has been living a lie with both you and them. That you are his one true love and that their negativity towards you, all caused by his lies, haunts him and eats at him. That it was time to set things straight and he can live this lie no more. That there will be no more coed "boys trips" where you are left out and that they can accept and appreciate you as a couple or move on from the friendship.

To me, that is the only acceptable solution.

It does not excuse the fact that Op's husband purposefully mischaracterized Op to his friends, causing them to snub her and want nothing to do with her. It does not excuse the fact that Op's husband willingly (and deceptively) went on couples trips w/o his wife because his friends refused to be around her. He has been badmouthing, lying and deceiving Op since the beginning of their relationship. Op literally recalls his friends snubbing her at her own wedding.

His friends sound like cliquish bullies with their own set of problems and they quite possibly have some screws loose in their own pea brains to treat another person so dismissively and with such outright scorn. They aren't perfect people - they choose to pal around with Op's husband. Clearly they have a certain jerk factor about them, birds of a feather....

But the clique is really the least of Op's concerns. Op has to accept that she is married to a liar who is out for himself and who has treated her like the enemy behind her back. No sense candy coating it. Know what you're dealing with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm one of the pps you thanked for being kind. So sorry this thread has gone off the rails, but that happens on this board some times. Take it with a grain of salt.

Sounds like you've taken some really positive steps for yourself. Way to go! You can do this.

And, easy on the Advil. My neuro told me that if you take it for more than two days in a row, it can trigger withdrawal headache. Keep your Tylenol/Advil plan quite short.

Best of luck.

Op is deluding herself that her husband is remorseful and scared about this. Being supportive of her denial is not a kindness. Being supportive of her going to therapy to gain strength and understanding of the situation is helpful. Telling her to work on her marriage to psychopath is akin to blaming the victim here - not cool.

This is not Op's fault. Her husband and his friends have quite literally been snubbing her for years. There is a level of contempt and cruelty here that is NOT normal. Her husband will continue to treat her like crap and undermine her sense of self worth in order to keep her under control.

+1 well said

+2 it is a huge huge HUGE red flag that OP's husband told her he will resent her forever and never forgive her if she/this messes up these friendships for him - that says everything we need to know about where his priorities are, and they absolutely are not with his wife and with fixing this and making everything okay. He has not been a good husband (understatement of the year) and nothing in his behavior says he is going to change.

OP, pretty much all of us started dating casually / were just having fun and were still closer/more loyal to our friends when we met our spouses. Eventually (some quicker than others; doesn't matter at all) we got serious. In no way is this ANY sort of excuse. You guys have been married for almost 5 years now! How can you possibly think that's a valid reason for this to still be going on? TBH I still think the idea that he's been bringing around/talking about other women with these guys (and that the 2 friends in particular are taking a decency stand) is the most likely scenario - that just makes sense. But either way, even if he really does love you and for some (absurd.) reason he has felt the need to keep up this whole "she is stupid (wtF!)/ball and chain" act to save face in front of his friends, NOTHING in his actions since this came out tell me he is prepared to or determined to make this right. That is not okay. The thing is, yes some guys are douche-y and that can certainly multiply in groups, but talking real shit about someone's WIFE is pretty bold and universally considered uncool. All it would've taken at ANY point was for him to make even a half-hearted comment (i.e. "alright alright, that's enough") and they would have cut it out. They have been following his cues, and he obviously has been signaling that it's more that okay to trash you. Think about it, the only way a group of friends is going to feel okay talking shit about your SPOUSE is if you talk a lottt more shit about her than they do. He is not some helpless victim who got in over his head and couldn't stop it and is now "scared" bc its bigger than him.

I'm glad you are going to counseling, and agree this should not be shared with him. Good luck, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jewish Prince. A man described as arrogant, egotistical, and interested in a compliant, intellectually non-competitive woman for a wife.

--https://interfaithfamily.com/arts_and_entertainment/popular_culture/intermarriage_and_the_future_of_american_jewry/

I mean, it sounds like he kind of has that though (somehow he seems to think Op is stupid (his words)) and she's defffinitely compliant if she's painting him as a victim here

[Anonymous]

People have different thresholds for what they can tolerate.
I’m furious on OP’s behalf and even at her a bit for being unwilling to hold her punk of a DH accountable but she’s willing and able to live with this, so that’s that.

OP, to answer your original question, since you’re willing to accept all the other stuff - no, writing a letter to his friends won’t repair things, in any way. Especially since he’s u willing to talk with them directly and stand up for you and your marriage. So don’t have any high expectations in that regard.

All you can do is let go of what they think. If you’re unwilling to hold your DH accountable for the damage he’s done and continues to then you have to accept things as they are. Period.

Though you mentioned he’d be willing to go to counseling with you, so take him up on that. And do get counseling for yourself (but don’t keep that a secret from him - he should know that you’re taking care of yourself and respecting yourself — let him worry about losing you instead of feeling like he has the luxury of shi**ing on you with no risk or consequences).

[Anonymous]

After 4 years of lies, a letter to friends will not change things, especially if in your words. It will be seen as something the crabby wife did and put him up too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People have different thresholds for what they can tolerate.
I’m furious on OP’s behalf and even at her a bit for being unwilling to hold her punk of a DH accountable but she’s willing and able to live with this, so that’s that.

OP, to answer your original question, since you’re willing to accept all the other stuff - no, writing a letter to his friends won’t repair things, in any way. Especially since he’s u willing to talk with them directly and stand up for you and your marriage. So don’t have any high expectations in that regard.

All you can do is let go of what they think. If you’re unwilling to hold your DH accountable for the damage he’s done and continues to then you have to accept things as they are. Period.

Though you mentioned he’d be willing to go to counseling with you, so take him up on that. And do get counseling for yourself (but don’t keep that a secret from him - he should know that you’re taking care of yourself and respecting yourself — let him worry about losing you instead of feeling like he has the luxury of shi**ing on you with no risk or consequences).

Do not tell him about the counseling unless the counselor thinks it's a good idea. You don't want this guy to feel threatened. If he turned on Op so massively when she was doing nothing wrong, imagine what he might do if he found out that Op was spilling the beans about him in therapy.

The guy has issues. Op's priority needs to be the safety of herself and her children.

[Anonymous]

how can anyone possibly think this has to do with OP's DH's friends? This is obviously all about the husband's issues. The friends are a complete red herring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:how can anyone possibly think this has to do with OP's DH's friends? This is obviously all about the husband's issues. The friends are a complete red herring.

The friends have been enabling this and goading this guy into this poor behavior for years. They are a part of it and they are not a nice group of people. But Op does not have to deal with them anymore. Her husband is a different story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:how can anyone possibly think this has to do with OP's DH's friends? This is obviously all about the husband's issues. The friends are a complete red herring.

The friends are a red herring until you relate they have accepted DHs tall tales, and both have, and continue to exclude OP because of them.

This is his WIFE, with children; not some random girlfriend. These are his children. The fact that they continue to disclude her is telling. Also, the fact that two friends are “pulling out”.

OP is so much better than this scenario.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not sure your DH ever stopped being immature. So he joked about this and dug himself a deep hole... It sounds like it then took on a life of its own within his friends and he just either passively or actively let it continue to roll and gather steam.

And not point in the last 4 years did he decide that this had gone too far and that he needed to stop it? He must have continued the act at these couples weekends to explain your absence. He accepted people thinking bad things about you and you being excluded to avoid coming clean.

You need couples counseling stat. Your husband not only doesn't have your back, he is actively working to put you down. You may both need to walk away from that whole group of friends and start with other friends or your friends. He needs to be willing to give up that group of friends Who cares what they think. You need to fix your marriage first.

These were not couples weekends. One of them was a big trip to Vegas and another to Austin. It was coed -- so girls were invited and guys were invited and everyone brought their so. He didn't have to continue an act -- he says his friends told them that I wasn't invited both times, so it wasn't his idea, and he just went along with it.

OP back again. Sorry, what??? He has to walk away from those friends? No. He won't do that. He told me that he will blame me for the rest of my life and resent me if I do anything to hurt these friendships. He or I need to somehow win back these friends years and years later. He is willing to tell the truth and come clean, and write letters.

This is the comment that broke my WTF radar, the needle just shot up and broke the works.

What? He has been badmouthing you to your friends for years and YOU need to win them back? YOU? What the #$$%, woman?

Here's the thing. I am not sure anyone told you this in black and white. For the marriage to succeed, marriage has to come first. Like, #1 in life. Ahead of everything. I'm a little iffy on whether it can come before your parents, but it most certainly comes BEFORE your friends! Either of you should be able to immediately drop any friend that is unfriendly to your marriage. All your friends should be friends of your marriage. Either of you should be in a position to tell anyone, stop talking shit about my spouse or the friendship is over.

The fact that your husband continues to put friends ahead of you is not good. Like, terminally not good. Don't worry about him "not getting it." He gets it. He just doesn't want to. The fact that he is still fearful of losing these friends and says he'll resent you if you damage these friendships tells me you are not that high in his ladder of priorities. THAT is your problem. Not friends.

By the way, I don't believe in the high school pact of "don't talk to him until he divorces her". Male friendships don't operate that way. It may be "let's not hang out anymore until you stop trash-talking about your wife 'cause I can't take this shit anymore". But men don't usually hang their friendships on their spouses, and it doesn't look like you've really interfered in his friendships.

Can this be repaired? Who knows. One thing I know that it is NOT about you "winning back" his friends. Screw his friends. This should be about your husband PROVING to you that you come first. #1. Maybe #2 after his mom, but definitely not after. Preserving his friendships should be the last thing on his mind. It's bullshit that he tells you "you're making this a bigger deal than it needs to be." You alone decide how big of a deal this should be.

Finally, from the shoes of someone whose marriage has gone through some shitty times, I want to give you this bit of wisdom:

Do not give forgiveness easily. You may be ready to forgive him in your heart but DO NOT SHOW it. He has to work for it. He has to ask for it and work for it. Like a dog. You giving your forgiveness so readily tells him it's OK to continue to be shitty to you.

[Anonymous]

OP, I hope your therapist tells you this, but you need to stop making excuses for your husband and tell him that he needs to man up. HE screwed up here, not you. HE is the one who has some atoning to do, not you. Please make him do some work here. This shouldn't all be on you.