When the kids go to college, I'm out of this loveless and affectionless marriage

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Woah...OP really steuck a nerve. 13 pages.

Me thinks many of you who are so upset are the spouse who is dead between the legs.

Actually, no. We have a great sex life, now. But for 2-3 years when the kids were little? Nope. Good when it happened, but not nearly frequent enough -- and it WAS me saying no. But thank GOD my DH is nothing like these losers spouting their childish, selfish, pathetic misogynistic crap. I could never respect someone like that. He saw it as our problem, and worked to try to help me get back to where we needed to be. Just like I worked with him when he had a hard time in another area of life. How do you not take care of the mother of your children? What kind of man behaves like that? She's going through something, so you bail. Nice vows. That's not a man. THat's not even an adult.

NP - and what do you say about the woman who wants to divorce her ill husband? instead of picking stupid fights, why can't you verbally abuse her on that thread?

"Verbal abuse"? My, someone's fragile. I didn't read that thread. It sounds like you're trying to pick a stupid fight. If someone is leaving her husband because he's ill, that's really crappy. Not controversial. Your point? That some women suck? Um, duh.

I'm trying to pick a fight? Seriously? I'm the one?

My, my. You are a delusional one...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Woah...OP really steuck a nerve. 13 pages.

Me thinks many of you who are so upset are the spouse who is dead between the legs.

Actually, no. We have a great sex life, now. But for 2-3 years when the kids were little? Nope. Good when it happened, but not nearly frequent enough -- and it WAS me saying no. But thank GOD my DH is nothing like these losers spouting their childish, selfish, pathetic misogynistic crap. I could never respect someone like that. He saw it as our problem, and worked to try to help me get back to where we needed to be. Just like I worked with him when he had a hard time in another area of life. How do you not take care of the mother of your children? What kind of man behaves like that? She's going through something, so you bail. Nice vows. That's not a man. THat's not even an adult.

But you were trying. OP's wife doesn't even sound like she is trying. It also sounds like it's been more than 24 months for OP and his wife.

There is a big difference between something that is a long dry spell that has an end and the death of intimacy in a marriage.

Yes, there's a difference, but I'm sure there were months when it seemed like I wasn't trying either. And I wasn't. Because I just didn't have it in me. Postpartum depression, hormonal changes due to aging, who knows really. But OP and his even worse fan club decided to just say she's fat and he plans to leave her in a few years. That's definitely not trying. The point of marriage isn't "I'll try only if you try". No. THat's a recipe for failure. Because unless you're really super lucky, there will be times when one of you is not able. Loss of a job, a parent, some real issue with kids, whatever it is. There will be a time when one of you is really not doing a great job of being a partner. That doesn't mean the other one should take his/her toys and go home. THat's when you try harder. But I keep seeing men with this "what's in it for me" attitude. Luckily I'm not married to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Woah...OP really steuck a nerve. 13 pages.

Me thinks many of you who are so upset are the spouse who is dead between the legs.

Actually, no. We have a great sex life, now. But for 2-3 years when the kids were little? Nope. Good when it happened, but not nearly frequent enough -- and it WAS me saying no. But thank GOD my DH is nothing like these losers spouting their childish, selfish, pathetic misogynistic crap. I could never respect someone like that. He saw it as our problem, and worked to try to help me get back to where we needed to be. Just like I worked with him when he had a hard time in another area of life. How do you not take care of the mother of your children? What kind of man behaves like that? She's going through something, so you bail. Nice vows. That's not a man. THat's not even an adult.

NP - and what do you say about the woman who wants to divorce her ill husband? instead of picking stupid fights, why can't you verbally abuse her on that thread?

"Verbal abuse"? My, someone's fragile. I didn't read that thread. It sounds like you're trying to pick a stupid fight. If someone is leaving her husband because he's ill, that's really crappy. Not controversial. Your point? That some women suck? Um, duh.

I'm trying to pick a fight? Seriously? I'm the one?

My, my. You are a delusional one...

Yes, by trying to create a new argument. How was I picking a fight? This fight had been going on for 11 pages before I came along. I guess I'm just not allowed to have an opinion because it's different from yours. Got it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Woah...OP really steuck a nerve. 13 pages.

Me thinks many of you who are so upset are the spouse who is dead between the legs.

Actually, no. We have a great sex life, now. But for 2-3 years when the kids were little? Nope. Good when it happened, but not nearly frequent enough -- and it WAS me saying no. But thank GOD my DH is nothing like these losers spouting their childish, selfish, pathetic misogynistic crap. I could never respect someone like that. He saw it as our problem, and worked to try to help me get back to where we needed to be. Just like I worked with him when he had a hard time in another area of life. How do you not take care of the mother of your children? What kind of man behaves like that? She's going through something, so you bail. Nice vows. That's not a man. THat's not even an adult.

Sounds to me like your DH isn't much into sex, so the fact that you kept saying no wasn't an issue in your house.
That's great for you both. No need to call the rest of us "losers".

Now let's get back to our discussion where one spouse is NOT ok with minimal sex (...regardless of little kids).
There is nothing childish about needing an intimate relationship with spouse.
And there is certainly no (good) reason why this would be put on hold for 2 - 3 years with young kids.

Selfish of a man to desire sex you say? What could be more selfish than ignoring an important need of my spouse!
Are you unable to set reasonable limits around mutual child care that you can't spare 15 minutes twice each week?

Even infants are just not that demanding. Of course, if you WANT to ignore your partner, it is always easy to find some essential thing that the baby must have right now. Are you this kind of mother? Sounds very selfish to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Woah...OP really steuck a nerve. 13 pages.

Me thinks many of you who are so upset are the spouse who is dead between the legs.

Actually, no. We have a great sex life, now. But for 2-3 years when the kids were little? Nope. Good when it happened, but not nearly frequent enough -- and it WAS me saying no. But thank GOD my DH is nothing like these losers spouting their childish, selfish, pathetic misogynistic crap. I could never respect someone like that. He saw it as our problem, and worked to try to help me get back to where we needed to be. Just like I worked with him when he had a hard time in another area of life. How do you not take care of the mother of your children? What kind of man behaves like that? She's going through something, so you bail. Nice vows. That's not a man. THat's not even an adult.

NP - and what do you say about the woman who wants to divorce her ill husband? instead of picking stupid fights, why can't you verbally abuse her on that thread?

"Verbal abuse"? My, someone's fragile. I didn't read that thread. It sounds like you're trying to pick a stupid fight. If someone is leaving her husband because he's ill, that's really crappy. Not controversial. Your point? That some women suck? Um, duh.

I'm trying to pick a fight? Seriously? I'm the one?

My, my. You are a delusional one...

Yes, by trying to create a new argument. How was I picking a fight? This fight had been going on for 11 pages before I came along. I guess I'm just not allowed to have an opinion because it's different from yours. Got it.

You're not allowed to spout on about the freindzone and call us all hags without getting a pushback, no. I mean, what kind of social skills do you have? You seriously think you can just call people hags and they'll want to talk to you? You are delusional...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Woah...OP really steuck a nerve. 13 pages.

Me thinks many of you who are so upset are the spouse who is dead between the legs.

Actually, no. We have a great sex life, now. But for 2-3 years when the kids were little? Nope. Good when it happened, but not nearly frequent enough -- and it WAS me saying no. But thank GOD my DH is nothing like these losers spouting their childish, selfish, pathetic misogynistic crap. I could never respect someone like that. He saw it as our problem, and worked to try to help me get back to where we needed to be. Just like I worked with him when he had a hard time in another area of life. How do you not take care of the mother of your children? What kind of man behaves like that? She's going through something, so you bail. Nice vows. That's not a man. THat's not even an adult.

Sounds to me like your DH isn't much into sex, so the fact that you kept saying no wasn't an issue in your house.
That's great for you both. No need to call the rest of us "losers".

Now let's get back to our discussion where one spouse is NOT ok with minimal sex (...regardless of little kids).
There is nothing childish about needing an intimate relationship with spouse.
And there is certainly no (good) reason why this would be put on hold for 2 - 3 years with young kids.

Selfish of a man to desire sex you say? What could be more selfish than ignoring an important need of my spouse!
Are you unable to set reasonable limits around mutual child care that you can't spare 15 minutes twice each week?

Even infants are just not that demanding. Of course, if you WANT to ignore your partner, it is always easy to find some essential thing that the baby must have right now. Are you this kind of mother? Sounds very selfish to me.

You seriously think you're need to get off is more important than your child's needs? Or your wife's preferences? Here's an idea: You have two hands, USE THEM! If you aren't wiling to put the effort into making the intimacy SATISFYING for your wife as well (which would require longer than 15 minutes, FYI) then how about not putting demands on her to make it satisfying for you? Take the matter into your own hands (literally) and jerk one out.
I will never understand people who prioritize sex over things like children and other really pressing issues. Get a sex toy or something, and leave your poor, harried wife alone for a while.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Woah...OP really steuck a nerve. 13 pages.

Me thinks many of you who are so upset are the spouse who is dead between the legs.

Actually, no. We have a great sex life, now. But for 2-3 years when the kids were little? Nope. Good when it happened, but not nearly frequent enough -- and it WAS me saying no. But thank GOD my DH is nothing like these losers spouting their childish, selfish, pathetic misogynistic crap. I could never respect someone like that. He saw it as our problem, and worked to try to help me get back to where we needed to be. Just like I worked with him when he had a hard time in another area of life. How do you not take care of the mother of your children? What kind of man behaves like that? She's going through something, so you bail. Nice vows. That's not a man. THat's not even an adult.

Sounds to me like your DH isn't much into sex, so the fact that you kept saying no wasn't an issue in your house.
That's great for you both. No need to call the rest of us "losers".

Now let's get back to our discussion where one spouse is NOT ok with minimal sex (...regardless of little kids).
There is nothing childish about needing an intimate relationship with spouse.
And there is certainly no (good) reason why this would be put on hold for 2 - 3 years with young kids.

Selfish of a man to desire sex you say? What could be more selfish than ignoring an important need of my spouse!
Are you unable to set reasonable limits around mutual child care that you can't spare 15 minutes twice each week?

Even infants are just not that demanding. Of course, if you WANT to ignore your partner, it is always easy to find some essential thing that the baby must have right now. Are you this kind of mother? Sounds very selfish to me.

You seriously think you're need to get off is more important than your child's needs? Or your wife's preferences? Here's an idea: You have two hands, USE THEM! If you aren't wiling to put the effort into making the intimacy SATISFYING for your wife as well (which would require longer than 15 minutes, FYI) then how about not putting demands on her to make it satisfying for you? Take the matter into your own hands (literally) and jerk one out.
I will never understand people who prioritize sex over things like children and other really pressing issues. Get a sex toy or something, and leave your poor, harried wife alone for a while.

Gees, you are really an extremist in bed, a warrior in the war between sexes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Woah...OP really steuck a nerve. 13 pages.

Me thinks many of you who are so upset are the spouse who is dead between the legs.

Actually, no. We have a great sex life, now. But for 2-3 years when the kids were little? Nope. Good when it happened, but not nearly frequent enough -- and it WAS me saying no. But thank GOD my DH is nothing like these losers spouting their childish, selfish, pathetic misogynistic crap. I could never respect someone like that. He saw it as our problem, and worked to try to help me get back to where we needed to be. Just like I worked with him when he had a hard time in another area of life. How do you not take care of the mother of your children? What kind of man behaves like that? She's going through something, so you bail. Nice vows. That's not a man. THat's not even an adult.

Sounds to me like your DH isn't much into sex, so the fact that you kept saying no wasn't an issue in your house.
That's great for you both. No need to call the rest of us "losers".

Now let's get back to our discussion where one spouse is NOT ok with minimal sex (...regardless of little kids).
There is nothing childish about needing an intimate relationship with spouse.
And there is certainly no (good) reason why this would be put on hold for 2 - 3 years with young kids.

Selfish of a man to desire sex you say? What could be more selfish than ignoring an important need of my spouse!
Are you unable to set reasonable limits around mutual child care that you can't spare 15 minutes twice each week?

Even infants are just not that demanding. Of course, if you WANT to ignore your partner, it is always easy to find some essential thing that the baby must have right now. Are you this kind of mother? Sounds very selfish to me.

Wrong. Completely wrong. Unless at least 5 times a week is "not into sex" (for 40 year olds with kids and 2 serious jobs). Just because this guy wants to give up on his family, don't pretend that it's impossible to get it back. It's possible. Not for everyone, and if he's really trying and she's just not willing to try, then that's very sad. But he's not talking about trying therapy, or anything like that. He's calling her fat and planning to leave her. That's losery.
"Put on hold" for 2-3 years with young kids? Not as a policy, no. But if the 2 kids are born within 2 years, and one of them never sleeps, and one of them has a serious health issue and mom has PPD and also has to go back to work, then, yep, it gets pretty darned infrequent. No one said it's selfish of a man to desire sex. It's selfish of him to put that need above all else. Would you leave the wife because she was too ill to have sex? That's selfish. So, she's sleepless and depressed. That's illness. Does that mean she shouldn't try to fix it? Of course not, but you are supposed to be her help-mate. Help her. But your easy way around that is blame the mom for not being a good enough mother and selfish? Really? That's selfish? You've clearly never been the primary parent of an infant. That doesn't even pass the laugh test. You are so far off in lala land you can't even see the reality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Woah...OP really steuck a nerve. 13 pages.

Me thinks many of you who are so upset are the spouse who is dead between the legs.

Actually, no. We have a great sex life, now. But for 2-3 years when the kids were little? Nope. Good when it happened, but not nearly frequent enough -- and it WAS me saying no. But thank GOD my DH is nothing like these losers spouting their childish, selfish, pathetic misogynistic crap. I could never respect someone like that. He saw it as our problem, and worked to try to help me get back to where we needed to be. Just like I worked with him when he had a hard time in another area of life. How do you not take care of the mother of your children? What kind of man behaves like that? She's going through something, so you bail. Nice vows. That's not a man. THat's not even an adult.

NP - and what do you say about the woman who wants to divorce her ill husband? instead of picking stupid fights, why can't you verbally abuse her on that thread?

"Verbal abuse"? My, someone's fragile. I didn't read that thread. It sounds like you're trying to pick a stupid fight. If someone is leaving her husband because he's ill, that's really crappy. Not controversial. Your point? That some women suck? Um, duh.

I'm trying to pick a fight? Seriously? I'm the one?

My, my. You are a delusional one...

Yes, by trying to create a new argument. How was I picking a fight? This fight had been going on for 11 pages before I came along. I guess I'm just not allowed to have an opinion because it's different from yours. Got it.

You're not allowed to spout on about the freindzone and call us all hags without getting a pushback, no. I mean, what kind of social skills do you have? You seriously think you can just call people hags and they'll want to talk to you? You are delusional...

I think you're confused and responding to the wrong person. I'm on your side. I'm anti "guy calling women hags" too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Woah...OP really steuck a nerve. 13 pages.

Me thinks many of you who are so upset are the spouse who is dead between the legs.

Actually, no. We have a great sex life, now. But for 2-3 years when the kids were little? Nope. Good when it happened, but not nearly frequent enough -- and it WAS me saying no. But thank GOD my DH is nothing like these losers spouting their childish, selfish, pathetic misogynistic crap. I could never respect someone like that. He saw it as our problem, and worked to try to help me get back to where we needed to be. Just like I worked with him when he had a hard time in another area of life. How do you not take care of the mother of your children? What kind of man behaves like that? She's going through something, so you bail. Nice vows. That's not a man. THat's not even an adult.

But you were trying. OP's wife doesn't even sound like she is trying. It also sounds like it's been more than 24 months for OP and his wife.

There is a big difference between something that is a long dry spell that has an end and the death of intimacy in a marriage.

Yes, there's a difference, but I'm sure there were months when it seemed like I wasn't trying either. And I wasn't. Because I just didn't have it in me. Postpartum depression, hormonal changes due to aging, who knows really. But OP and his even worse fan club decided to just say she's fat and he plans to leave her in a few years. That's definitely not trying. The point of marriage isn't "I'll try only if you try". No. THat's a recipe for failure. Because unless you're really super lucky, there will be times when one of you is not able. Loss of a job, a parent, some real issue with kids, whatever it is. There will be a time when one of you is really not doing a great job of being a partner. That doesn't mean the other one should take his/her toys and go home. THat's when you try harder. But I keep seeing men with this "what's in it for me" attitude. Luckily I'm not married to them.

There comes a point where the spouse who is making the effort loses faith that the other spouse will ever resume their efforts. That's where I am and probably a big reason why it's such a trigger for me to hear -- even though she doesn't want sex, doesn't give any indication that she's thinking about making an effort to help improve our sex life, and gives every indication that she's happy with the status quo -- that my giving her even more of what she wants will somehow do the trick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Woah...OP really steuck a nerve. 13 pages.

Me thinks many of you who are so upset are the spouse who is dead between the legs.

Actually, no. We have a great sex life, now. But for 2-3 years when the kids were little? Nope. Good when it happened, but not nearly frequent enough -- and it WAS me saying no. But thank GOD my DH is nothing like these losers spouting their childish, selfish, pathetic misogynistic crap. I could never respect someone like that. He saw it as our problem, and worked to try to help me get back to where we needed to be. Just like I worked with him when he had a hard time in another area of life. How do you not take care of the mother of your children? What kind of man behaves like that? She's going through something, so you bail. Nice vows. That's not a man. THat's not even an adult.

NP - and what do you say about the woman who wants to divorce her ill husband? instead of picking stupid fights, why can't you verbally abuse her on that thread?

"Verbal abuse"? My, someone's fragile. I didn't read that thread. It sounds like you're trying to pick a stupid fight. If someone is leaving her husband because he's ill, that's really crappy. Not controversial. Your point? That some women suck? Um, duh.

I'm trying to pick a fight? Seriously? I'm the one?

My, my. You are a delusional one...

Yes, by trying to create a new argument. How was I picking a fight? This fight had been going on for 11 pages before I came along. I guess I'm just not allowed to have an opinion because it's different from yours. Got it.

You're not allowed to spout on about the freindzone and call us all hags without getting a pushback, no. I mean, what kind of social skills do you have? You seriously think you can just call people hags and they'll want to talk to you? You are delusional...

I think you're confused and responding to the wrong person. I'm on your side. I'm anti "guy calling women hags" too.

Oh sorry! I was confused for a moment there.... I was wondering what the hell happened when the guy I thought I was arguing with suddenly started giving rational arguments back. Anyway, disregard my earlier comments to you then!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Woah...OP really steuck a nerve. 13 pages.

Me thinks many of you who are so upset are the spouse who is dead between the legs.

Actually, no. We have a great sex life, now. But for 2-3 years when the kids were little? Nope. Good when it happened, but not nearly frequent enough -- and it WAS me saying no. But thank GOD my DH is nothing like these losers spouting their childish, selfish, pathetic misogynistic crap. I could never respect someone like that. He saw it as our problem, and worked to try to help me get back to where we needed to be. Just like I worked with him when he had a hard time in another area of life. How do you not take care of the mother of your children? What kind of man behaves like that? She's going through something, so you bail. Nice vows. That's not a man. THat's not even an adult.

But you were trying. OP's wife doesn't even sound like she is trying. It also sounds like it's been more than 24 months for OP and his wife.

There is a big difference between something that is a long dry spell that has an end and the death of intimacy in a marriage.

Yes, there's a difference, but I'm sure there were months when it seemed like I wasn't trying either. And I wasn't. Because I just didn't have it in me. Postpartum depression, hormonal changes due to aging, who knows really. But OP and his even worse fan club decided to just say she's fat and he plans to leave her in a few years. That's definitely not trying. The point of marriage isn't "I'll try only if you try". No. THat's a recipe for failure. Because unless you're really super lucky, there will be times when one of you is not able. Loss of a job, a parent, some real issue with kids, whatever it is. There will be a time when one of you is really not doing a great job of being a partner. That doesn't mean the other one should take his/her toys and go home. THat's when you try harder. But I keep seeing men with this "what's in it for me" attitude. Luckily I'm not married to them.

There comes a point where the spouse who is making the effort loses faith that the other spouse will ever resume their efforts. That's where I am and probably a big reason why it's such a trigger for me to hear -- even though she doesn't want sex, doesn't give any indication that she's thinking about making an effort to help improve our sex life, and gives every indication that she's happy with the status quo -- that my giving her even more of what she wants will somehow do the trick.

It's a "trigger" for you? Are you fucking kidding me? I take such offense to that. You know a "trigger warning" is given on accounts of abuse or EXTREMELY traumatic events, so that anyone who has gone through something similar wont have to go through those emotions again. Honestly, go fuck yourself with your childish attitude of being so fucking ungrateful to your wife for every thing she has done because she wont suck your dick. Just be glad you aren't my husband. I would have kicked you to the curb longggg ago and made damn sure you got no visitation. Then you can go out and try to get laid all you want and wont have to deal with the childcare duties that are so clearly cramping your sex life. You are an overgrown child and it doesnt shock me in the least that your wife can't stand to have sex with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You seriously think you're need to get off is more important than your child's needs?

First of all, my children do NOT require full parental support 24x7. There is at LEAST a spare 30 minutes EVERY week.
Second, "getting off" is not just my need. Sexual intimacy is OUR need, the need of BOTH partners, the need of the marriage itself, and benefits our children to ensure a happy lasting marriage.

Anonymous wrote:
Or your wife's preferences?

I would (and have) dealt with this issue. It turns out, my wife actually prefers to be in a marriage where I meet her needs and she meets mine. Now, if she REALLY preferred not to have sex with me, I'd be discretely dating. My wife does not get to force celibacy upon me, that is an unreasonable preference, like if I preferred not to "hear about her day" that just does not work.

Anonymous wrote: Here's an idea: You have two hands, USE THEM!

Here is an idea: there are plenty of women who agree that sex is an important need for any relationship.

Anonymous wrote: If you aren't wiling to put the effort into making the intimacy SATISFYING for your wife as well (which would require longer than 15 minutes, FYI) then how about not putting demands on her to make it satisfying for you?

I am happy and able to go as long as she wants. Longer is always better. Glad we agree on this point.

Anonymous wrote: Take the matter into your own hands (literally) and jerk one out.

On occasion I do just that, thanks for the invitation.

Anonymous wrote:I will never understand people who prioritize sex over things like children and other really pressing issues.

I will never understand people who allow children's infinite needs to exclude some intimacy with their spouse.

Anonymous wrote: Get a sex toy or something, and leave your poor, harried wife alone for a while.

Wife is harried by choice, and it is a very selfish choice. So no thank you, I will instead help wife with all reasonable child care, discourage her from going far off the deep end with UN-reasonable child care, then seek our times for intimacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Woah...OP really steuck a nerve. 13 pages.

Me thinks many of you who are so upset are the spouse who is dead between the legs.

Actually, no. We have a great sex life, now. But for 2-3 years when the kids were little? Nope. Good when it happened, but not nearly frequent enough -- and it WAS me saying no. But thank GOD my DH is nothing like these losers spouting their childish, selfish, pathetic misogynistic crap. I could never respect someone like that. He saw it as our problem, and worked to try to help me get back to where we needed to be. Just like I worked with him when he had a hard time in another area of life. How do you not take care of the mother of your children? What kind of man behaves like that? She's going through something, so you bail. Nice vows. That's not a man. THat's not even an adult.

But you were trying. OP's wife doesn't even sound like she is trying. It also sounds like it's been more than 24 months for OP and his wife.

There is a big difference between something that is a long dry spell that has an end and the death of intimacy in a marriage.

Yes, there's a difference, but I'm sure there were months when it seemed like I wasn't trying either. And I wasn't. Because I just didn't have it in me. Postpartum depression, hormonal changes due to aging, who knows really. But OP and his even worse fan club decided to just say she's fat and he plans to leave her in a few years. That's definitely not trying. The point of marriage isn't "I'll try only if you try". No. THat's a recipe for failure. Because unless you're really super lucky, there will be times when one of you is not able. Loss of a job, a parent, some real issue with kids, whatever it is. There will be a time when one of you is really not doing a great job of being a partner. That doesn't mean the other one should take his/her toys and go home. THat's when you try harder. But I keep seeing men with this "what's in it for me" attitude. Luckily I'm not married to them.

There comes a point where the spouse who is making the effort loses faith that the other spouse will ever resume their efforts. That's where I am and probably a big reason why it's such a trigger for me to hear -- even though she doesn't want sex, doesn't give any indication that she's thinking about making an effort to help improve our sex life, and gives every indication that she's happy with the status quo -- that my giving her even more of what she wants will somehow do the trick.

I think if you honestly love your wife and want to save your family, you have to make solving this problem your biggest priority. Tackle it like you would a difficult problem in your career. What you're doing hasn't been working. Has it been improving at all, but just too slowly? If so, then maybe you have to be patient. IF it's not improving, then you have to do something else. Therapy could help. It could help her hear how important this is to you. It could possibly help her identify an issue she could address (depression, just excess weight and lack of exercise can bring on mild depression if you're middle-aged). Maybe some self-loathing. Maybe she's truly exhausted. Maybe she's anemic. Whatever. Or maybe she'll say "I just don't want to be with you anymore". And then you'll know. But what I'm hearing from you is a lot of harsh judgment toward her, and if that's all you've got, then yeah, you should admit that you're just not trying. No woman wants to have sex with a man who thinks she's fat and doesn't love her. UNless she's seriously messed up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Woah...OP really steuck a nerve. 13 pages.

Me thinks many of you who are so upset are the spouse who is dead between the legs.

Actually, no. We have a great sex life, now. But for 2-3 years when the kids were little? Nope. Good when it happened, but not nearly frequent enough -- and it WAS me saying no. But thank GOD my DH is nothing like these losers spouting their childish, selfish, pathetic misogynistic crap. I could never respect someone like that. He saw it as our problem, and worked to try to help me get back to where we needed to be. Just like I worked with him when he had a hard time in another area of life. How do you not take care of the mother of your children? What kind of man behaves like that? She's going through something, so you bail. Nice vows. That's not a man. THat's not even an adult.

But you were trying. OP's wife doesn't even sound like she is trying. It also sounds like it's been more than 24 months for OP and his wife.

There is a big difference between something that is a long dry spell that has an end and the death of intimacy in a marriage.

Yes, there's a difference, but I'm sure there were months when it seemed like I wasn't trying either. And I wasn't. Because I just didn't have it in me. Postpartum depression, hormonal changes due to aging, who knows really. But OP and his even worse fan club decided to just say she's fat and he plans to leave her in a few years. That's definitely not trying. The point of marriage isn't "I'll try only if you try". No. THat's a recipe for failure. Because unless you're really super lucky, there will be times when one of you is not able. Loss of a job, a parent, some real issue with kids, whatever it is. There will be a time when one of you is really not doing a great job of being a partner. That doesn't mean the other one should take his/her toys and go home. THat's when you try harder. But I keep seeing men with this "what's in it for me" attitude. Luckily I'm not married to them.

There comes a point where the spouse who is making the effort loses faith that the other spouse will ever resume their efforts. That's where I am and probably a big reason why it's such a trigger for me to hear -- even though she doesn't want sex, doesn't give any indication that she's thinking about making an effort to help improve our sex life, and gives every indication that she's happy with the status quo -- that my giving her even more of what she wants will somehow do the trick.

I think if you honestly love your wife and want to save your family, you have to make solving this problem your biggest priority. Tackle it like you would a difficult problem in your career. What you're doing hasn't been working. Has it been improving at all, but just too slowly? If so, then maybe you have to be patient. IF it's not improving, then you have to do something else. Therapy could help. It could help her hear how important this is to you. It could possibly help her identify an issue she could address (depression, just excess weight and lack of exercise can bring on mild depression if you're middle-aged). Maybe some self-loathing. Maybe she's truly exhausted. Maybe she's anemic. Whatever. Or maybe she'll say "I just don't want to be with you anymore". And then you'll know. But what I'm hearing from you is a lot of harsh judgment toward her, and if that's all you've got, then yeah, you should admit that you're just not trying. No woman wants to have sex with a man who thinks she's fat and doesn't love her. UNless she's seriously messed up.

x2. Not to mention a man who is angry all the time and for whom being sexually rejected is a "Trigger". (A trigger to what exactly? Violence?) Not to mention who acts entitled to sex and seems downright aggressive when people suggest he does ANYTHING to put some effort into getting her sexually interested.