My wife thinks I need to see a therapist, I think I'm aware of my problems

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not like therapy. I don’t need to rehash my life with anyone.

OP, it seems you and your wife need to brush up on parenting skills. I’m sure she has dealt with morning meltdowns and not been happy either. There must be consequences and incentives for kids who won’t listen. You need to discuss this with your wife, not a therapist.

Hang in there!

Thanks... I also want to be super clear, the reason I gave therapy a shot was not because I can't handle my kids. That was an example of a conversation I had with my therapist that I found particularly unhelpful. I described a relatively common issue that I thought would be universally accepted as an example of something everyone recognizes and was making the point I got an extremely pedestrian response that frankly I had long ago arrived at and didn't need to be paying a couple hundred bucks for. I should've used the example of how I felt unusually irritated at how often my bike chain was skipping and could've saved myself two pages of posts about my child abuse.

Did you actually give it a shot though? Because showing up and going with the attitude that it's not useful and you're aware of everything that's not giving it a shot

I mean, I described pretty exhaustively what I’ve done and what has worked. This feels like a trick question - what’s the metric by which we decide I’ve tried hard enough? When I break down and talk to a stranger about my dad?

The things that I want to improve in my life seem pretty clear cut and so does the list of things that I can use to address them. Of course the self awareness doesn’t help if I don’t pursue those things… but the question is what is there to gain from this traditional talk therapy about childhood trauma?

That's my point. You've already determined that you have nothing to gain, it's not going to work that's not giving it a shot.

Your wife keeps telling you to go because she sees, patterns and behaviors that are an issue. You can deny it as much as you want but there's zero chance she'd keep pushing it if there wasn't an issue.
Just going off of what you've displayed here your defensiveness is a huge part of that.

Bottom line is your head knowledge and whatever you doing is not working.

You can dig in your heels about therapy, but realize that you do so at risk to damaging your relationship with your wife

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not like therapy. I don’t need to rehash my life with anyone.

OP, it seems you and your wife need to brush up on parenting skills. I’m sure she has dealt with morning meltdowns and not been happy either. There must be consequences and incentives for kids who won’t listen. You need to discuss this with your wife, not a therapist.

Hang in there!

Thanks... I also want to be super clear, the reason I gave therapy a shot was not because I can't handle my kids. That was an example of a conversation I had with my therapist that I found particularly unhelpful. I described a relatively common issue that I thought would be universally accepted as an example of something everyone recognizes and was making the point I got an extremely pedestrian response that frankly I had long ago arrived at and didn't need to be paying a couple hundred bucks for. I should've used the example of how I felt unusually irritated at how often my bike chain was skipping and could've saved myself two pages of posts about my child abuse.

Did you actually give it a shot though? Because showing up and going with the attitude that it's not useful and you're aware of everything that's not giving it a shot

I mean, I described pretty exhaustively what I’ve done and what has worked. This feels like a trick question - what’s the metric by which we decide I’ve tried hard enough? When I break down and talk to a stranger about my dad?

The things that I want to improve in my life seem pretty clear cut and so does the list of things that I can use to address them. Of course the self awareness doesn’t help if I don’t pursue those things… but the question is what is there to gain from this traditional talk therapy about childhood trauma?

DP. I'm one of the posters who didn't have amazing luck with therapy. But as someone who had similar issues to work through, I can imagine a possible answer to this question.

By talking about your dad, and about the experiences you had as a child, you might discover that you responded in specific ways to the situation you were in — emotionally, relationally, and maybe in other ways, too. These responses were likely smart and adaptive -- they kept you as safe as you could have been in a situation where you had little power. It's also possible that over time, these responses became automatic, your default response to stressful situations.

As smart and adaptive as the responses may have been then, it's possible that by now they have outlived their usefulness. By talking about things, you might begin to really see and articulate the specific ways your young self tried to protect himself (and maybe also the people he loved). And once you see that-- once it becomes visible -- you can actively decide if those tools remain the ones you want to rely on today. If not, a good therapist might be able to help you shift from these automatic settings to something that better fits your present circumstance.

Also/related: one of the things I struggled with as a parent was this: I knew I didn't want to be like my dad. I knew I didn't want my kids to experience the type of household I'd known. But when I removed the modeling I'd been given, it wasn't magically replaced by something better. There was only a vacuum, empty swirling space that often left me feeling like I was parenting blind. (That was especially true when my kids were younger -- as they got older, it became easier). Sometimes I wonder if I'd found the right therapist, whether I might have had an easier time filling that vacuum. Maybe there would have been exercises I could have gone through, resources I might have found. Maybe that's what cognitive behavioral therapy would have done, I don't know.

I respect all that you are trying to do. And I think you are asking really good questions. I absolutely understand the reluctance to delve back into a painful past, especially if it serves no obvious practical purpose — or worse, gets you stuck in anger and pain. I just wanted to say that while I cannot know for sure, I guess I would remain open to the possibility that there could be a practical purpose.

Best of luck to you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not like therapy. I don’t need to rehash my life with anyone.

OP, it seems you and your wife need to brush up on parenting skills. I’m sure she has dealt with morning meltdowns and not been happy either. There must be consequences and incentives for kids who won’t listen. You need to discuss this with your wife, not a therapist.

Hang in there!

Thanks... I also want to be super clear, the reason I gave therapy a shot was not because I can't handle my kids. That was an example of a conversation I had with my therapist that I found particularly unhelpful. I described a relatively common issue that I thought would be universally accepted as an example of something everyone recognizes and was making the point I got an extremely pedestrian response that frankly I had long ago arrived at and didn't need to be paying a couple hundred bucks for. I should've used the example of how I felt unusually irritated at how often my bike chain was skipping and could've saved myself two pages of posts about my child abuse.

Did you actually give it a shot though? Because showing up and going with the attitude that it's not useful and you're aware of everything that's not giving it a shot

I mean, I described pretty exhaustively what I’ve done and what has worked. This feels like a trick question - what’s the metric by which we decide I’ve tried hard enough? When I break down and talk to a stranger about my dad?

The things that I want to improve in my life seem pretty clear cut and so does the list of things that I can use to address them. Of course the self awareness doesn’t help if I don’t pursue those things… but the question is what is there to gain from this traditional talk therapy about childhood trauma?

DP. I'm one of the posters who didn't have amazing luck with therapy. But as someone who had similar issues to work through, I can imagine a possible answer to this question.

By talking about your dad, and about the experiences you had as a child, you might discover that you responded in specific ways to the situation you were in — emotionally, relationally, and maybe in other ways, too. These responses were likely smart and adaptive -- they kept you as safe as you could have been in a situation where you had little power. It's also possible that over time, these responses became automatic, your default response to stressful situations.

As smart and adaptive as the responses may have been then, it's possible that by now they have outlived their usefulness. By talking about things, you might begin to really see and articulate the specific ways your young self tried to protect himself (and maybe also the people he loved). And once you see that-- once it becomes visible -- you can actively decide if those tools remain the ones you want to rely on today. If not, a good therapist might be able to help you shift from these automatic settings to something that better fits your present circumstance.

Also/related: one of the things I struggled with as a parent was this: I knew I didn't want to be like my dad. I knew I didn't want my kids to experience the type of household I'd known. But when I removed the modeling I'd been given, it wasn't magically replaced by something better. There was only a vacuum, empty swirling space that often left me feeling like I was parenting blind. (That was especially true when my kids were younger -- as they got older, it became easier). Sometimes I wonder if I'd found the right therapist, whether I might have had an easier time filling that vacuum. Maybe there would have been exercises I could have gone through, resources I might have found. Maybe that's what cognitive behavioral therapy would have done, I don't know.

I respect all that you are trying to do. And I think you are asking really good questions. I absolutely understand the reluctance to delve back into a painful past, especially if it serves no obvious practical purpose — or worse, gets you stuck in anger and pain. I just wanted to say that while I cannot know for sure, I guess I would remain open to the possibility that there could be a practical purpose.

Best of luck to you.

Thank you! I appreciate that very honest answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not like therapy. I don’t need to rehash my life with anyone.

OP, it seems you and your wife need to brush up on parenting skills. I’m sure she has dealt with morning meltdowns and not been happy either. There must be consequences and incentives for kids who won’t listen. You need to discuss this with your wife, not a therapist.

Hang in there!

Thanks... I also want to be super clear, the reason I gave therapy a shot was not because I can't handle my kids. That was an example of a conversation I had with my therapist that I found particularly unhelpful. I described a relatively common issue that I thought would be universally accepted as an example of something everyone recognizes and was making the point I got an extremely pedestrian response that frankly I had long ago arrived at and didn't need to be paying a couple hundred bucks for. I should've used the example of how I felt unusually irritated at how often my bike chain was skipping and could've saved myself two pages of posts about my child abuse.

Did you actually give it a shot though? Because showing up and going with the attitude that it's not useful and you're aware of everything that's not giving it a shot

I mean, I described pretty exhaustively what I’ve done and what has worked. This feels like a trick question - what’s the metric by which we decide I’ve tried hard enough? When I break down and talk to a stranger about my dad?

The things that I want to improve in my life seem pretty clear cut and so does the list of things that I can use to address them. Of course the self awareness doesn’t help if I don’t pursue those things… but the question is what is there to gain from this traditional talk therapy about childhood trauma?

That's my point. You've already determined that you have nothing to gain, it's not going to work that's not giving it a shot.

Your wife keeps telling you to go because she sees, patterns and behaviors that are an issue. You can deny it as much as you want but there's zero chance she'd keep pushing it if there wasn't an issue.
Just going off of what you've displayed here your defensiveness is a huge part of that.

Bottom line is your head knowledge and whatever you doing is not working.

You can dig in your heels about therapy, but realize that you do so at risk to damaging your relationship with your wife

You seem to be projecting a lot.

[Anonymous]

I mean, I described pretty exhaustively what I’ve done and what has worked. This feels like a trick question - what’s the metric by which we decide I’ve tried hard enough? When I break down and talk to a stranger about my dad?

The things that I want to improve in my life seem pretty clear cut and so does the list of things that I can use to address them. Of course the self awareness doesn’t help if I don’t pursue those things… but the question is what is there to gain from this traditional talk therapy about childhood trauma?

Many people have explained that therapy isn't just dwelling endlessly on your childhood or calling it traumatic (which seems to be a concern of yours, from how often you bring it up). More typically, therapy looks more like a person sharing a current-day issue (I got so frustrated with my bike chain, for example), and the therapist helping to identify other similar present-day situations, like maybe the client often gets emotionally overwhelmed when X happens. Then they might troubleshoot how to prevent X or manage the reactions when they come. Sometimes, the situations or reactions might mimic something that happened at another time in our lives--childhood, adolescence, another relationship. Sometimes realizing there is a connection between past events and current reactions can make it easier to talk through and dial down the intensity of what happens now. Therapy isn't about dwelling on the past--it's about changing how you interact with the present.

Re: your first question on the metric for deciding you've tried hard enough, this all started because you said your wife kept suggesting therapy. It seems like rather than asking us, you should be asking her what the metric is.

[Anonymous]

OP, I suggest checking out the Positive Intelligence program, and possibly springing for a certified Positive Intelligence coach or therapist.

It’s a CBT-based program developed by a Stanford PhD, who developed it after working with executives who were having trouble getting out of their own way. The process involves identifying and understanding learned emotional patterns, then loosening the hold of those patterns which do not serve. One looks at the past only to limit its influence on the present.

One of the really brilliant things about the program is that it externalizes the issues as different categories of “saboteurs.” The saboteurs aren’t necessarily bad, they almost always serve some purpose. But left unexamined, they can become an emotional chokehold. Externalizing them helps the process feel less emotionally risky, and keeps it from feeling like a form of wallowing.

In other words, you’re not wrestling with inner demons. You’re just gaining the tools you need to get your “hyper vigilant” saboteur, or your “controller” saboteur, to stand down for a change.

It’s not inexpensive— I want to say it’s something like $1000 — but I found it incredibly useful. I have no connection to the program other than that I did it with a professional coach, and it was helpful. Some past stuff did come up for me, but it always had a purpose and it was never more than I could handle. Not even close.

I know there are therapists who offer it, too. Coincidentally, a friend up in New England had a marriage counselor who enrolled him in the program, totally unrelated to my professional coaching experience. He found it really helpful, too.

[Anonymous]

Isn’t this like The Forum? To acknowledge saboteurs (by another name). Some people like it. Others do not like the recruitment aspects at the end of the course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Isn’t this like The Forum? To acknowledge saboteurs (by another name). Some people like it. Others do not like the recruitment aspects at the end of the course.

I don’t know the Forum. I also hadn’t heard about the recruitment — maybe bc I did it through a professional coach, it wasn’t an issue? I’d have been turned off if it had been.

There is a book, which I imagine you can order on Amazon. If someone did the saboteur assessment online, read the book, and then worked insights into a meditation practice and/or other therapy/CBT, maybe that would be enough. But I did find it useful to talk through specific scenarios with someone who shared the vocabulary and framework.

I don’t tend to like expensive, branded CEO-targeted programs like this (Steven Covey etc). So I rolled my eyes a bit when I first started. But it did help, and I thought the framing (it’s not me, it’s those damned saboteurs!) helped break down some walls for me.

[Anonymous]

Thank you for this. I enjoy self study and it works for me. (I have even done major licensing exams this way.) Some people can achieve behavior changes through non conventional means.

[Anonymous]

I never took it, but I think a pillar of the forum is to listen to feedback (what your teachers have said, bosses, friends, lovers). Reflect internalize and take steps to address the feedback. You have to listen and be analytical.

The idea is that people are giving yuh feedback all of the time— and a lot of it is valid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There's obviously lots of details that can't be included, but you know, I'm a modern american husband and father, and I have stress in my life. Sometimes it's overwhelming, sometimes I make parenting mistakes, etc. My own parents were not great, but I'm very aware of all that, and I've worked hard to avoid the mistakes they made—in fact, my parenting flaws, which I have, are very unlike theirs.

My wife thinks therapy would be helpful and would help me "unpack" my feelings about my parents and help me be a better father or person. I've tried therapy and I found it extremely unrewarding—I felt like I just had to have a conversation with a person I don't know, about things that I already know about and don't really enjoy talking about, and she gave me kind of milquetoast suggestions on how to handle various issues. I didn't cry or discover anything new about myself.

I understand the importance of not suppressing things, but I also think that it's important to not dwell. I'm not deeply opposed to the idea of therapy and it does seem to help some people, but I feel like I'm pretty introspective and aware. I guess I'm just wondering if maybe there's a certain KIND of therapist or style of therapy that might be more productive?

Cool.

Keep posting here 10x a day too. You got this!

No kidding lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP none of us can explain to you why your wife is insisting on therapy; personally, I have a hard time imagining she is pushing this hard because she wants you to have some deeper understanding of your childhood. People generally push for change when current circumstances are problematic, which leads me to believe that your behavior with her and your kids affects them in a way you’re unable or unwilling to accept. 13 pages of you pushing back on therapy and arguing with posters provides a pretty good clue of how you respond to the people in your home. I’m pretty pragmatic and I don’t believe in endless talk therapy either, but the issue isn’t whether that’s good or bad, the issue is whether or not whatever you’re doing at home is successful. If your wife is still pushing for you to do something that you’re not doing, consider that whatever solutions you’ve found at this time aren’t doing the trick. And ignore that reality at your peril.

Here’s a reason - she comes from a different background, has her own childhood trauma that she feels comfortable talking with a therapist to sort out, perhaps has her own trauma with my dysfunctional family that she would like to talk to someone to sort out and she has a tough believing I could work through my own trauma without going to someone about it. But we’re different.

If you want to talk about what’s become clear over the last 13 pages is that, actually, I already do quite a few things that most people consider “therapy” and I am very happy with them. By most people’s standards, apparently, I am doing therapy. Maybe I could benefit from cbt, which I’d never heard of? I keep talking about it because I find it interesting.

What was her trauma with your dysfunctional family—and why are you writing about it as though it has nothing to do with this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP none of us can explain to you why your wife is insisting on therapy; personally, I have a hard time imagining she is pushing this hard because she wants you to have some deeper understanding of your childhood. People generally push for change when current circumstances are problematic, which leads me to believe that your behavior with her and your kids affects them in a way you’re unable or unwilling to accept. 13 pages of you pushing back on therapy and arguing with posters provides a pretty good clue of how you respond to the people in your home. I’m pretty pragmatic and I don’t believe in endless talk therapy either, but the issue isn’t whether that’s good or bad, the issue is whether or not whatever you’re doing at home is successful. If your wife is still pushing for you to do something that you’re not doing, consider that whatever solutions you’ve found at this time aren’t doing the trick. And ignore that reality at your peril.

Here’s a reason - she comes from a different background, has her own childhood trauma that she feels comfortable talking with a therapist to sort out, perhaps has her own trauma with my dysfunctional family that she would like to talk to someone to sort out and she has a tough believing I could work through my own trauma without going to someone about it. But we’re different.

If you want to talk about what’s become clear over the last 13 pages is that, actually, I already do quite a few things that most people consider “therapy” and I am very happy with them. By most people’s standards, apparently, I am doing therapy. Maybe I could benefit from cbt, which I’d never heard of? I keep talking about it because I find it interesting.

What was her trauma with your dysfunctional family—and why are you writing about it as though it has nothing to do with this?

My dad sucks and has also been nasty to her. One of the reasons I chose not to engage with him anymore.

[Anonymous]

I posted about the different abilities of therapists. I knew usually within three sessions whether they seemed good or not. You should interview several therapists, tell them about your concerns about going to therapy, and see how they respond. There’s a lot of ineffable, subtle ways that people can either connect or not. If the therapist seems like a clown, don’t go back. Find one you respect and who seems wise.

I too used to think it was a mistake to “dwell” on the past, recount my misery to a stranger, etc. But if your go-to coping strategy is emotional suppression and avoidance, which is common in f’d up families, that will not serve you well going forward with loved ones you want to be close to.

Do you want to continue to grow as a person, and learn new skills—or just settle for who you are now, with no growth? Can you admit that seeing someone who has a *lot* of experience/insight in the ways of f’d up families and their aftermath might be useful—or do you think that you, uniquely, can see yourself fully and can effect changes/insight all on your lonesome, with no help?

Effective therapy is a relationship between two people, who talk together and find a way to improve relationships in general. Your whole thing of “don’t dwell” and “I can go it alone”—buddy, that is such typical thinking from f’d up family dynamics. That kind of stoicism shuts others out. There is a difference between “dwelling” on past pains and “working through” them.

Your current rigid stance may have been protective in your family of origin but now it’s likely limiting your ability to connect with others and learn new ways of being. Your wife likely sees you in ways that you do not see yourself. You think you are “fine” with how you are now, but that is likely because you have not known the more emotionally free way of being that people without family trauma enjoy. A therapist could help you see options and take emotional risks and loosen up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I posted about the different abilities of therapists. I knew usually within three sessions whether they seemed good or not. You should interview several therapists, tell them about your concerns about going to therapy, and see how they respond. There’s a lot of ineffable, subtle ways that people can either connect or not. If the therapist seems like a clown, don’t go back. Find one you respect and who seems wise.

I too used to think it was a mistake to “dwell” on the past, recount my misery to a stranger, etc. But if your go-to coping strategy is emotional suppression and avoidance, which is common in f’d up families, that will not serve you well going forward with loved ones you want to be close to.

Do you want to continue to grow as a person, and learn new skills—or just settle for who you are now, with no growth? Can you admit that seeing someone who has a *lot* of experience/insight in the ways of f’d up families and their aftermath might be useful—or do you think that you, uniquely, can see yourself fully and can effect changes/insight all on your lonesome, with no help?

Effective therapy is a relationship between two people, who talk together and find a way to improve relationships in general. Your whole thing of “don’t dwell” and “I can go it alone”—buddy, that is such typical thinking from f’d up family dynamics. That kind of stoicism shuts others out. There is a difference between “dwelling” on past pains and “working through” them.

Your current rigid stance may have been protective in your family of origin but now it’s likely limiting your ability to connect with others and learn new ways of being. Your wife likely sees you in ways that you do not see yourself. You think you are “fine” with how you are now, but that is likely because you have not known the more emotionally free way of being that people without family trauma enjoy. A therapist could help you see options and take emotional risks and loosen up.

So, there's just a default belief that if you have trauma, it MUST be unpacked by a stranger who is paid to listen or you can't be happy or a person who can grow? See where the skepticism starts to seep in?